Common Core question for proponents

[Anonymous]

Long before NCLB, most kids took regular standardized tests. These were used as a tool for the teachers to measure and improve instruction. Now, the tests are being used against the teachers instead of as an aide. The tests are pretty poor, too, from what I have seen.

[Anonymous]

One thing is for sure, the standards would not be a positive help in the behavior management situation. Many students who come from "unconventional" homes need to learn appropriate ways to gain attention (unfortunately many have not had much attention given to them before they arrive).

The teachers in many schools are required to meet and hash out the standards and talk about the testing. There is not time to talk about some really important issues like behavior management anymore. In some schools this is disastrous. I wonder if the teacher in the WAPO knew that this boy's father had died. Did anyone talk to him about each student individually? There are things that are important to discuss and know and understand.

There are some (actually MANY) things that the standardized testing cannot capture. For some students a successful year would be one where they learned appropriate social skills. If you don't have those, you're not going to get a job of any kind anywhere.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the teacher in the WAPO knew that this boy's father had died. Did anyone talk to him about each student individually? There are things that are important to discuss and know and understand.

Of course, he knew. I didn't read the article carefully--it was my impression that the teacher did NOT shove the kid.

[Anonymous]

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/districts-649666-state-school.html

1 Billion dollars for testing of Common Core in California..........somebody is really benefitng from CC--and it is not the kids.

[Anonymous]

^ Complete waste of money. Think of how many teachers that 1 billion dollars can buy. If each teacher costs 100K, it would be 10,000 teachers.

[Anonymous]

3) because people are pretty sick of standardized testing that is not meaningful to them.


Please explain why you think this is idiotic. I would not discount how people feel about this stuff. Just because you can't quantify something and put it into your bean counter column does not mean it is irrelevant.

People, in general, do not think tests are fun to begin with. You could do a survey and probably find this to be true (if you need "research" done). If the test has no meaning to them personally, it is even worse. This, in fact, may be the biggest reason people want out. The pursuit of happiness is being taken away from them when they are forced to do this stuff. If people see relevance and purpose to what they are doing, they will do it (if they can).

NP here. I wouldn't call your post idiotic, but I do think it displays a certain ignorance common to Americans who did not raise objections to the high stakes testing environment courtesy of NCLB and now think CC is introducing some new evil. It isn't. Furthermore, Americans have embraced the testing culture because it does suit them. When you or your neighbors are looking into moving and wish to learn about the quality of your public schools in your new area, what is your number one criteria? Test scores. Before CC, there where lots of "ed reformers" who advocated merit pay, based in part on test scores. ( remember Michelle Rhee?) Ever hear of the SATs? How often do you judge the quality of a college on the scores of their applicants? Often. Too often. Americans have accepted the testing culture they have precisely because it serves them.

That said, it doesn't need to be that way. The most disappointing thing about the 2-3 virulently anti CC posters here is their complete failure in advancing a better assessment system for ensuring that students are getting a quality education. They offer nothing more than a moving target of tinfoil nonsense. The problem is testing companies making money! No wait, the problem is who was on what committee! No wait, the problem is that standards are too vague! Except when the are too easy! The problem is no one needs standards at all!

Yet. No solutions. Once they start advancing some thoughtful ways to navigate a very complex problem that existed before CC, I don't have much respect for them, or you, whose argument seems to consist of, no one likes tests because they kill happiness.

[Anonymous]

That said, it doesn't need to be that way. The most disappointing thing about the 2-3 virulently anti CC posters here is their complete failure in advancing a better assessment system for ensuring that students are getting a quality education. They offer nothing more than a moving target of tinfoil nonsense. The problem is testing companies making money! No wait, the problem is who was on what committee! No wait, the problem is that standards are too vague! Except when the are too easy! The problem is no one needs standards at all!

Lack of standards is not the problem. And, Common Core standards are not the solution.

[Anonymous]

Yet. No solutions. Once they start advancing some thoughtful ways to navigate a very complex problem that existed before CC, I don't have much respect for them, or you, whose argument seems to consist of, no one likes tests because they kill happiness.

Well, you support a very expensive program which has no data to support it. It was not tested, nor validated. At least, there is not documentation to support that it was.

[Anonymous]

I'd definitely agree that it doesn't make sense to fire a 9th grade teacher because some of her students are only reading at a 3rd grade level. It's not her fault that they can't read at grade level, that was a failure that happened for all of the years prior.

But then again, NCLB, while it does demand accountability, it does not mandate or require that teacher to be fired because of all of the failures prior. That's stupidity happening at the school administration level, not at the federal level.

Bottom line is that you still need and will still have assessments and testing, otherwise there is no meaningful r objective basis for understanding the state of childhood education in America.

If you think the tests suck, fine, contribute positive change to the test questions and formats. If you think school districts are taking inappropriate actions in response to poor test results, fine, pitch a bitch with the school district. But don't for a minute harbor any illusion that you're going to get rid of testing altogether.

[Anonymous]

But don't for a minute harbor any illusion that you're going to get rid of testing altogether.

Arne?

[Anonymous]

^ Non-sequitur - Standardized testing has been a part of education longer than Arne Duncan has.

[Anonymous]

It's not the standardized testing; it's the high stakes nature of it and it being (potentially) based on a set of "national" standards that make it different from how it has been in the past.

[Anonymous]

The CC standards and the PARCC tests were not properly piloted. That is why there are so many people who are upset. The standards were rushed through. Teachers were not allowed to pilot them and make changes to them. It's pretty clear what went wrong.

There will be civil disobedience and it will be by people who don't usually utilize those strategies. Will they be arrested?

http://www.nj.com/education/2015/01/what_happens_if_nj_students_dont_take_the_parcc.html

[Anonymous]

That said, it doesn't need to be that way. The most disappointing thing about the 2-3 virulently anti CC posters here is their complete failure in advancing a better assessment system for ensuring that students are getting a quality education. They offer nothing more than a moving target of tinfoil nonsense. The problem is testing companies making money! No wait, the problem is who was on what committee! No wait, the problem is that standards are too vague! Except when the are too easy! The problem is no one needs standards at all!


Lack of standards is not the problem. And, Common Core standards are not the solution.

Again, a content free post. If you have ideas, share them. As of right now, you're boring in your ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Yet. No solutions. Once they start advancing some thoughtful ways to navigate a very complex problem that existed before CC, I don't have much respect for them, or you, whose argument seems to consist of, no one likes tests because they kill happiness.


Well, you support a very expensive program which has no data to support it. It was not tested, nor validated. At least, there is not documentation to support that it was.

And another content free post from the same tinfoil poster. But let's play your game. What data are you looking for? Do you want to gather data on various implementations? Could it be that data is being collected now? What data are you expecting to validate a list of standards? Test scores? Do you even understand what it means to validate a test (because surely you are not suggesting that standards are validated or tested in the absence of....standardized tests, right? What sort of documentation are you actually suggesting is necessary to "validate" the standards?

Please. Offer some solutions. Because you sound foolish at the moment with your inconsistent and unsupported assertions.

For the thousandth time, CC isn't a program. It's a list of standards. How you fail to understand this is mind boggling.