The RFP in MCPS - are they going to gut the magnet and immersion programs or enhance them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Duh. Magnets are schools within schools. Minorities whine that there are very few of their demographic in the magnet. So, open up the magnet to anyone who wants it. As the kids are brought in to jerrymander the demographic make up more begin to fail. The end result is standards are diminished. At a school where there are large numbers of least prepared kids the standards are lowered to a level that is below what you would see at a "W" school.

That is how you kill magnets.

Most of the magnets actually are open to anyone who wants them. There are only a few magnets in MCPS where you have to test in.

Also, I don't think it's possible to gerrymander a demographic make-up.

Also, how dare those minorities whine about the public school system, I guess.

Starr definitely has a habit of talking when he should not talk, but no, MCPS is not going to "kill the magnets," and MCPS is also not going to get rid of zoned schools. It would be politically impossible for Starr to do either of those things, even if he wanted to.

An Exciting Opportunity to Integrate Montgomery County Schools by Richard Kahlenberg

http://mocoedblog.org/?p=105

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the magnets actually are open to anyone who wants them. There are only a few magnets in MCPS where you have to test in.

Also, I don't think it's possible to gerrymander a demographic make-up.

Also, how dare those minorities whine about the public school system, I guess.

Starr definitely has a habit of talking when he should not talk, but no, MCPS is not going to "kill the magnets," and MCPS is also not going to get rid of zoned schools. It would be politically impossible for Starr to do either of those things, even if he wanted to.

On the other thread, someone suggest "busing" as an option to solve 10% issue. Sounds like, though, he is willing to try.

The point is that Starr is not Lord High Emperor, who can say "Let it be done!" and it is done. If Starr is foolish enough to propose getting rid of zoned schools, the middle class will riot in the streets.

I am not in position to judge what he can/can't do but I am old enough to know funny things happen in life. So, I will hold my judgement until we can see how things play out. I think we can all agree on one issue though -- Starr really has a big problem and he is looking for solutions. He may see this as a way to kill two birds with one stone - close the achievement gap and get few bucks saved along the way. I really don't see the BOE pushing him back or parents/students gaining enough traction to hold him back. Starr was the wrong guy for MCPS, IMHO.

I am old enough to know people don't change. What Starr did in Stamford is coming here. His lefty cronies are already pusing for change.


An Exciting Opportunity to Integrate Montgomery County Schools by Richard Kahlenberg

http://mocoedblog.org/?p=105

Notice that the MoCoEdblog is filled with socialist phonies like Starr. Petrilli who moved to a wealthier part of town from the Silver Spring area and wrote a book to make money from his choice is also an "editor" on the blog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am old enough to know people don't change. What Starr did in Stamford is coming here. His lefty cronies are already pushing for change.

So let them push for change. The question is whether they will be able to achieve the change they are pushing for (or the change you think they're pushing for). If Starr is even half the incompetent fool you believe him to be, the answer is clearly no.

[Anonymous]

So Starr is a socialist, now? Sounds like you don't have a clue what that word really means.

Anyway, it's clear nobody here really knows whether he's actually thinking of dismantling the consortium/lottery or test-in magnet immersion, specialty, IB and STEM programs.

I'm ready to join the riots if he tries. But I doubt he will. Why?

I suspect the folks who predict rioting if he tries to dismantle these programs are correct. Rioting from the middle class. Meanwhile the high income folks quietly go private. And none of that would help with the concerns about SES disparity, so it won't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am old enough to know people don't change. What Starr did in Stamford is coming here. His lefty cronies are already pusing for change.


An Exciting Opportunity to Integrate Montgomery County Schools by Richard Kahlenberg

http://mocoedblog.org/?p=105

Notice that the MoCoEdblog is filled with socialist phonies like Starr. Petrilli who moved to a wealthier part of town from the Silver Spring area and wrote a book to make money from his choice is also an "editor" on the blog.

I'm not a socialist, actually used to be a Republican, now Independent. But I don't think trying to make schools equitable FOR KIDS is a socialist thing. I don't agree with trying to do away with magnet programs, but trying to make schools more equitable should be beyond politics or anything else.

People who have the means can hire tutors, supplement at home, prep their kids for the magnet entrance exams, SAT tests, etc.. Kids from poor families don't have this opportunity. From the start of their education, there is already a vast inequity. It only gets worse as they get older, into college.

I don't know what the answer is to make it more equitable for kids, but I don't think we should just ignore the fact that there is such an equity in *public* education. As school administrators, their jobs are to address the issues of the entire school district, not just the rich schools, and ignore the poor ones.

Yes, I know, life's not fair. When you are an adult, it's up to the individual. But for kids? Can we not give these kids at least a fair shot at a better life? What is so wrong with integrating lower performing kids with higher performing ones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect that not all magnets have the same impact on demographics. For example, the RCF spanish immersion program is probably vulnerable to termination or relocation given how it operates. Many of the students who attend are coming from schools that have higher FARMS etc. than RCF, and the only reason they applied to the magnet was to avoid attending a relatively high poverty neighborhood school. This leaves the neighborhood schools with fewer middle class students than they would otherwise have, thus exacerbating the demographic imbalances that exist between schools. Does RCF need a magnet to lift it up or level the playing field in terms of test scores and demographics? I suspect if you look around you'll find lots of schools that have a more genuine claim to needing a program of that sort to balance the numbers.

Why would you use RCF as the standard when there are six other immersion schools with different demographics than RCF? No ones going to Sligo or Gaithersburg or rolling terrace, etc. to escape high poverty. The immersion program families bring so much t these schools. You have no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect that not all magnets have the same impact on demographics. For example, the RCF spanish immersion program is probably vulnerable to termination or relocation given how it operates. Many of the students who attend are coming from schools that have higher FARMS etc. than RCF, and the only reason they applied to the magnet was to avoid attending a relatively high poverty neighborhood school. This leaves the neighborhood schools with fewer middle class students than they would otherwise have, thus exacerbating the demographic imbalances that exist between schools. Does RCF need a magnet to lift it up or level the playing field in terms of test scores and demographics? I suspect if you look around you'll find lots of schools that have a more genuine claim to needing a program of that sort to balance the numbers.

Why would you use RCF as the standard when there are six other immersion schools with different demographics than RCF? No ones going to Sligo or Gaithersburg or rolling terrace, etc. to escape high poverty. The immersion program families bring so much t these schools. You have no idea.

Simmer down. I used it as an example, not as a standard. RCF has long been considered a ticket out of our neighborhood school and into a better cluster. I've seen it in action and I do know what I'm talking about, at least as concerns my neighborhood where I've had the opportunity to talk with dozens of parents who tried desperately to get in, despite the long odds. I think it's different than a school like Rolling Terrace, where it makes sense to have a partial immersion program. So to be clear, I wasn't using it as a standard and I wasn't advocating to get rid of immersion. I was, however, suggesting that this one is probably first on the chopping block if MCPS starts cutting magnet programs. If MCPS were forward thinking it would expand its dual immersion programs and implement them in schools with high ESOL populations. But expecting a little creativity from MCPS might be a stretch at this point.

[Anonymous]

Maryland has two Rhodes scholars this year (out of 32 for the US as a whole) and both graduated from MCPS magnet programs:
Maya Krishnan from RM's IB
Fang Cao from Blair's Math and Science.

The magnet programs should be supported by our school superintendent not watered down into redundancy in a well intentioned but misguided attempt to engineer social justice.

From the Rhodes scholars website:

"Fang Cao

Maryland/DC, 2015

University: University of Maryland

Other information: Fang Y. Cao, Silver Spring, is a senior at the University of Maryland, where he majors in Neurobiology and Physiology, and Computer Science. He is both a Truman Scholar and a Goldwater Scholar, with a 4.0 across many disciplines. Born in China, he emigrated to London at age five, and to the United States at seven. His family slept on cardboard before moving onto mattresses found in a dumpster. He has done research at NIH, the Children’s National Medical Center, and at a health clinic in Jamaica. Fang founded two tutoring programs to help low-income local high school students succeed in the sciences, and is passionate about solving the national crisis in community healthcare for the underserved.
- See more at: http://www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/rhodes-scholars-elect-class-of-2015#sthash.wJIviaHo.dpuf

Maya Krishnan

Maryland/DC, 2015

University: Stanford University

Other information: Maya I. Krishnan, Rockville, is a Stanford University senior majoring in Philosophy, with minors in Computer Science and Classics. Her book, Modern Illuminations, includes ten essays on the relationship between the theory of knowledge and theology. Maya also created and maintains an interactive online database correlating datasets around ancient Greece and Rome. Elected to Phi Beta Kappa as a junior, her senior thesis is on the relationship between mathematics, meaning and history in Kant. The daughter of a Hindu-Unitarian and a Jew, she became interested in how post-Reformation Christian theology affects basic approaches to truth. She is an oboist, and has worked as a technology scientist for a nonprofit serving children in some of Washington, D.C.’s most at-risk neighborhoods.
- See more at: http://www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/rhodes-scholars-elect-class-of-2015#sthash.wJIviaHo.dpuf"

From the Gazette:
http://www.gazette.net/article/20141202/NEWS/141209947/1007&template=gazette

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maryland has two Rhodes scholars this year (out of 32 for the US as a whole) and both graduated from MCPS magnet programs:
Maya Krishnan from RM's IB
Fang Cao from Blair's Math and Science.

The magnet programs should be supported by our school superintendent not watered down into redundancy in a well intentioned but misguided attempt to engineer social justice.

From the Rhodes scholars website:

"Fang Cao

Maryland/DC, 2015

University: University of Maryland

Other information: Fang Y. Cao, Silver Spring, is a senior at the University of Maryland, where he majors in Neurobiology and Physiology, and Computer Science. He is both a Truman Scholar and a Goldwater Scholar, with a 4.0 across many disciplines. Born in China, he emigrated to London at age five, and to the United States at seven. His family slept on cardboard before moving onto mattresses found in a dumpster. He has done research at NIH, the Children’s National Medical Center, and at a health clinic in Jamaica. Fang founded two tutoring programs to help low-income local high school students succeed in the sciences, and is passionate about solving the national crisis in community healthcare for the underserved.
- See more at: http://www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/rhodes-scholars-elect-class-of-2015#sthash.wJIviaHo.dpuf

Maya Krishnan

Maryland/DC, 2015

University: Stanford University

Other information: Maya I. Krishnan, Rockville, is a Stanford University senior majoring in Philosophy, with minors in Computer Science and Classics. Her book, Modern Illuminations, includes ten essays on the relationship between the theory of knowledge and theology. Maya also created and maintains an interactive online database correlating datasets around ancient Greece and Rome. Elected to Phi Beta Kappa as a junior, her senior thesis is on the relationship between mathematics, meaning and history in Kant. The daughter of a Hindu-Unitarian and a Jew, she became interested in how post-Reformation Christian theology affects basic approaches to truth. She is an oboist, and has worked as a technology scientist for a nonprofit serving children in some of Washington, D.C.’s most at-risk neighborhoods.
- See more at: http://www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/rhodes-scholars-elect-class-of-2015#sthash.wJIviaHo.dpuf"

From the Gazette:
http://www.gazette.net/article/20141202/NEWS/141209947/1007&template=gazette

what's your point?

[Anonymous]

My point as I stated above is that "The magnet programs should be supported by our school superintendent not watered down into redundancy in a well intentioned but misguided attempt to engineer social justice".
These are bright students whose minds have been well trained for many, many years thanks to our magnet programs and as a result they are able to excel academically. The Rhodes scholar program is very prestigious. Kudos to these MCPS magnet alums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect that not all magnets have the same impact on demographics. For example, the RCF spanish immersion program is probably vulnerable to termination or relocation given how it operates. Many of the students who attend are coming from schools that have higher FARMS etc. than RCF, and the only reason they applied to the magnet was to avoid attending a relatively high poverty neighborhood school. This leaves the neighborhood schools with fewer middle class students than they would otherwise have, thus exacerbating the demographic imbalances that exist between schools. Does RCF need a magnet to lift it up or level the playing field in terms of test scores and demographics? I suspect if you look around you'll find lots of schools that have a more genuine claim to needing a program of that sort to balance the numbers.

Why would you use RCF as the standard when there are six other immersion schools with different demographics than RCF? No ones going to Sligo or Gaithersburg or rolling terrace, etc. to escape high poverty. The immersion program families bring so much t these schools. You have no idea.

Simmer down. I used it as an example, not as a standard. RCF has long been considered a ticket out of our neighborhood school and into a better cluster. I've seen it in action and I do know what I'm talking about, at least as concerns my neighborhood where I've had the opportunity to talk with dozens of parents who tried desperately to get in, despite the long odds. I think it's different than a school like Rolling Terrace, where it makes sense to have a partial immersion program. So to be clear, I wasn't using it as a standard and I wasn't advocating to get rid of immersion. I was, however, suggesting that this one is probably first on the chopping block if MCPS starts cutting magnet programs. If MCPS were forward thinking it would expand its dual immersion programs and implement them in schools with high ESOL populations. But expecting a little creativity from MCPS might be a stretch at this point.

Clarity is certainly needed as I often see comments, some in this same thread, about getting rid of immersion as a whole based solely on some perceived notion about RCF. NEVER are the other programs even mentioned. Furthermore, " I've seen it in action".is not data. I challenge anyone to prove immersion is not effective and that families only choose it for the cluster. But that proof is impossible to obtain.

Lastly, dual immersion does not work. Native English speakers never become fluent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Clarity is certainly needed as I often see comments, some in this same thread, about getting rid of immersion as a whole based solely on some perceived notion about RCF. NEVER are the other programs even mentioned. Furthermore, " I've seen it in action".is not data. I challenge anyone to prove immersion is not effective and that families only choose it for the cluster. But that proof is impossible to obtain.

Lastly, dual immersion does not work. Native English speakers never become fluent.

Fluency is not the only acceptable outcome, though. The program could be valuable even if the native English speakers don't become fluent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Starr interview
http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/montgomery-county-school-chief-joshua-starrs-biggest-problemeveryone-wants-to-go-to-his-schools/

Washingtonian: Is one solution to change the actual demographic makeup of the schools through school choice?

Starr: We recently put out a request-for-proposal for a major study of our choice processes. I was superintendent in Stamford, Connecticut, a tenth the size of Montgomery County but almost the same demographics. We had a rule that said every school must look like the district as a whole, within 10 percent. We don’t have that in Montgomery County.

Magnets are being dismantled becuase it "must look like the district as a whole, within 10 percent."

It would be easier to take him seriously if he didn't choose the whitest, wealthiest cluster in MCPS for his own family...

Maybe he could send them to Sidwell with the Obama girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My point as I stated above is that "The magnet programs should be supported by our school superintendent not watered down into redundancy in a well intentioned but misguided attempt to engineer social justice".
These are bright students whose minds have been well trained for many, many years thanks to our magnet programs and as a result they are able to excel academically. The Rhodes scholar program is very prestigious. Kudos to these MCPS magnet alums.

+1

I don't consider the leftist approach by Starr to be well intentioned at all. It is simply an attempt to attract and pander to a growing class of students who are highly ill prepared and whose parents can't support the needed tax base. So, the attempt to mash everybody into the same level of learning.

Don't believe me? The lefty created a school levelling department.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My point as I stated above is that "The magnet programs should be supported by our school superintendent not watered down into redundancy in a well intentioned but misguided attempt to engineer social justice".
These are bright students whose minds have been well trained for many, many years thanks to our magnet programs and as a result they are able to excel academically. The Rhodes scholar program is very prestigious. Kudos to these MCPS magnet alums.

+1

I don't consider the leftist approach by Starr to be well intentioned at all. It is simply an attempt to attract and pander to a growing class of students who are highly ill prepared and whose parents can't support the needed tax base. So, the attempt to mash everybody into the same level of learning.

Don't believe me? The lefty created a school levelling department.

what's wrong with trying to level the *public* schools? Again, this is public school we are talking about. You live in MoCo. You pay MoCo property tax (if you own property), and that pool of money gets spread out across to all schools. Just because you live in a more affluent area of MoCo doesn't mean you deserve to get better schools.

If you believe that only people who pay property taxes which fund the school budget, should get to send their kids to public schools, then you'd have to kick out all the renters, too. Basically, you're saying only homeowners should get to send their kids to public school, ie, only well off people should get a good education. That's not how the US works.