We don’t know if there are gods, or a God

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life



Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"?
#Why must time be linear

What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet?
#Fertilizer or oil, gas, coal

How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe?
#Um, elsewhere is elsewhere?

How is this related to creating the cosmos
#CMB

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?
# what purpose does believing in nothing serve?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

Quit trying to call "something bigger than us" God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there were a god children would not die or suffer.

If there were a god, there would be no child molesters in church, which by the way is the number one place that heinous act happens.

Two responses:

First, really on the first example, just because we can’t think of the reason doesn’t mean there isn’t one. My dog doesn’t understand 95% of the things that I do during the day — and yet there is a perfectly rationale reason for why that’s the case. The dog just can’t see it. I believe that we relate to God in a similar way.

On the second example — we live in a fallen world where there is sin and evil. The fact that people do horrible things doesn’t disprove the existence of God — in fact the entire Bible is premised on the fact that sin has corrupted the world; that because of this separation between man and God everyone needs a savior; that the gulf is so wide between us and God that we cannot bridge it ourselves no matter how “good” we are; that rather than destroy the ugliness of humanity, God sent his own Son into the world to pay the ultimate price for all of our sin; that He did so on the cross, which was the most humiliating way for anyone to die at that time; and that he was then resurrected to prove that he was the Son of God; and we are all saved not because of what we do but because of our faith in Him. Because he was the perfect substitute, through faith, you get the perfect record of Jesus and are reunited with God.

I know lots of people don’t believe that. OK. But it is at least a system of belief that absolutely acknlowdges the premise of evil, explains why people do truly evil things, and yet also offers a path of redemption for everyone who engages in evil. It certainly makes more sense to me than the world is just a random place and bad things apparently happen for no reason at all. It also makes a lot more sense to me than the traditional view of every other world religion — be good, do good, follow the rules, maybe it balances in the end and you make it to heaven (sadly, this is what many Christians think too).

You can say — well, I’m not a child molester, I’m not truly evil. But if you take an honest inventory of your life, there are all kinds of ugly things you have done. Everyone has. All of us are a hot mess. There is very little that separates priests from prostitutes when it comes to the motivation of the heart.

I say this as someone who was in fact the subject of highly inappropriate sexual contact when I was in high school through the husband of a trusted teacher. Despite a surface that looked highly successful, the incident left me very confused, hurt, and angry for a long time. It was also a contributing factor to my own behavior that hurt other people as an adult — an affair in my first marriage, a tendency to lie out of shame, a draw to addictive behaviors and compulsions to escape uncomfortable emotions including the trauma from high school.

It was only as my second marriage was on the verge of collapse and I realized that my successful career was not going to change my heart that I started to look into deeper places for real answers.

And it was only after I became a Christian and accepted the above as truth that I saw a path for change, growth, and redemption — that was the moment when I actually began to get over what happened to me and became a new person. Not in therapy, not through reading self help books, not through sitting aimlessly in church services over the years. I did all of those for years to no no avail.

It was only when I truly studied Christianity (and NOT the messed up MAGA version that dominates today unfortunately in many churches) — and became a real Christian — that I discovered a transformed heart.

Yeah we’re in the fallen world and people are corrupt, but why would God send a bear to maul 42 children just because two kids happened to mock a bald man?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there were a god children would not die or suffer.

If there were a god, there would be no child molesters in church, which by the way is the number one place that heinous act happens.

Two responses:

First, really on the first example, just because we can’t think of the reason doesn’t mean there isn’t one. My dog doesn’t understand 95% of the things that I do during the day — and yet there is a perfectly rationale reason for why that’s the case. The dog just can’t see it. I believe that we relate to God in a similar way.

On the second example — we live in a fallen world where there is sin and evil. The fact that people do horrible things doesn’t disprove the existence of God — in fact the entire Bible is premised on the fact that sin has corrupted the world; that because of this separation between man and God everyone needs a savior; that the gulf is so wide between us and God that we cannot bridge it ourselves no matter how “good” we are; that rather than destroy the ugliness of humanity, God sent his own Son into the world to pay the ultimate price for all of our sin; that He did so on the cross, which was the most humiliating way for anyone to die at that time; and that he was then resurrected to prove that he was the Son of God; and we are all saved not because of what we do but because of our faith in Him. Because he was the perfect substitute, through faith, you get the perfect record of Jesus and are reunited with God.

I know lots of people don’t believe that. OK. But it is at least a system of belief that absolutely acknlowdges the premise of evil, explains why people do truly evil things, and yet also offers a path of redemption for everyone who engages in evil. It certainly makes more sense to me than the world is just a random place and bad things apparently happen for no reason at all. It also makes a lot more sense to me than the traditional view of every other world religion — be good, do good, follow the rules, maybe it balances in the end and you make it to heaven (sadly, this is what many Christians think too).

You can say — well, I’m not a child molester, I’m not truly evil. But if you take an honest inventory of your life, there are all kinds of ugly things you have done. Everyone has. All of us are a hot mess. There is very little that separates priests from prostitutes when it comes to the motivation of the heart.

I say this as someone who was in fact the subject of highly inappropriate sexual contact when I was in high school through the husband of a trusted teacher. Despite a surface that looked highly successful, the incident left me very confused, hurt, and angry for a long time. It was also a contributing factor to my own behavior that hurt other people as an adult — an affair in my first marriage, a tendency to lie out of shame, a draw to addictive behaviors and compulsions to escape uncomfortable emotions including the trauma from high school.

It was only as my second marriage was on the verge of collapse and I realized that my successful career was not going to change my heart that I started to look into deeper places for real answers.

And it was only after I became a Christian and accepted the above as truth that I saw a path for change, growth, and redemption — that was the moment when I actually began to get over what happened to me and became a new person. Not in therapy, not through reading self help books, not through sitting aimlessly in church services over the years. I did all of those for years to no no avail.

It was only when I truly studied Christianity (and NOT the messed up MAGA version that dominates today unfortunately in many churches) — and became a real Christian — that I discovered a transformed heart.

Yeah we’re in the fallen world and people are corrupt, but why would God send a bear to maul 42 children just because two kids happened to mock a bald man?

God doesn't send anything -- good or bad. Sometimes people who believe in God think he (always a "he") sends us everything - both good and bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there were a god children would not die or suffer.

If there were a god, there would be no child molesters in church, which by the way is the number one place that heinous act happens.

Two responses:

First, really on the first example, just because we can’t think of the reason doesn’t mean there isn’t one. My dog doesn’t understand 95% of the things that I do during the day — and yet there is a perfectly rationale reason for why that’s the case. The dog just can’t see it. I believe that we relate to God in a similar way.

On the second example — we live in a fallen world where there is sin and evil. The fact that people do horrible things doesn’t disprove the existence of God — in fact the entire Bible is premised on the fact that sin has corrupted the world; that because of this separation between man and God everyone needs a savior; that the gulf is so wide between us and God that we cannot bridge it ourselves no matter how “good” we are; that rather than destroy the ugliness of humanity, God sent his own Son into the world to pay the ultimate price for all of our sin; that He did so on the cross, which was the most humiliating way for anyone to die at that time; and that he was then resurrected to prove that he was the Son of God; and we are all saved not because of what we do but because of our faith in Him. Because he was the perfect substitute, through faith, you get the perfect record of Jesus and are reunited with God.

I know lots of people don’t believe that. OK. But it is at least a system of belief that absolutely acknlowdges the premise of evil, explains why people do truly evil things, and yet also offers a path of redemption for everyone who engages in evil. It certainly makes more sense to me than the world is just a random place and bad things apparently happen for no reason at all. It also makes a lot more sense to me than the traditional view of every other world religion — be good, do good, follow the rules, maybe it balances in the end and you make it to heaven (sadly, this is what many Christians think too).

You can say — well, I’m not a child molester, I’m not truly evil. But if you take an honest inventory of your life, there are all kinds of ugly things you have done. Everyone has. All of us are a hot mess. There is very little that separates priests from prostitutes when it comes to the motivation of the heart.

I say this as someone who was in fact the subject of highly inappropriate sexual contact when I was in high school through the husband of a trusted teacher. Despite a surface that looked highly successful, the incident left me very confused, hurt, and angry for a long time. It was also a contributing factor to my own behavior that hurt other people as an adult — an affair in my first marriage, a tendency to lie out of shame, a draw to addictive behaviors and compulsions to escape uncomfortable emotions including the trauma from high school.

It was only as my second marriage was on the verge of collapse and I realized that my successful career was not going to change my heart that I started to look into deeper places for real answers.

And it was only after I became a Christian and accepted the above as truth that I saw a path for change, growth, and redemption — that was the moment when I actually began to get over what happened to me and became a new person. Not in therapy, not through reading self help books, not through sitting aimlessly in church services over the years. I did all of those for years to no no avail.

It was only when I truly studied Christianity (and NOT the messed up MAGA version that dominates today unfortunately in many churches) — and became a real Christian — that I discovered a transformed heart.

Yeah we’re in the fallen world and people are corrupt, but why would God send a bear to maul 42 children just because two kids happened to mock a bald man?

God doesn't send anything -- good or bad. Sometimes people who believe in God think he (always a "he") sends us everything - both good and bad.

DP - read your gawdam book. 2 Kings 2:24

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Yeah it doesn't say specifically sent, but words, how do they work? It's very clear he did respond to Elisha's request.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there were a god children would not die or suffer.

If there were a god, there would be no child molesters in church, which by the way is the number one place that heinous act happens.

Two responses:

First, really on the first example, just because we can’t think of the reason doesn’t mean there isn’t one. My dog doesn’t understand 95% of the things that I do during the day — and yet there is a perfectly rationale reason for why that’s the case. The dog just can’t see it. I believe that we relate to God in a similar way.

On the second example — we live in a fallen world where there is sin and evil. The fact that people do horrible things doesn’t disprove the existence of God — in fact the entire Bible is premised on the fact that sin has corrupted the world; that because of this separation between man and God everyone needs a savior; that the gulf is so wide between us and God that we cannot bridge it ourselves no matter how “good” we are; that rather than destroy the ugliness of humanity, God sent his own Son into the world to pay the ultimate price for all of our sin; that He did so on the cross, which was the most humiliating way for anyone to die at that time; and that he was then resurrected to prove that he was the Son of God; and we are all saved not because of what we do but because of our faith in Him. Because he was the perfect substitute, through faith, you get the perfect record of Jesus and are reunited with God.

I know lots of people don’t believe that. OK. But it is at least a system of belief that absolutely acknlowdges the premise of evil, explains why people do truly evil things, and yet also offers a path of redemption for everyone who engages in evil. It certainly makes more sense to me than the world is just a random place and bad things apparently happen for no reason at all. It also makes a lot more sense to me than the traditional view of every other world religion — be good, do good, follow the rules, maybe it balances in the end and you make it to heaven (sadly, this is what many Christians think too).

You can say — well, I’m not a child molester, I’m not truly evil. But if you take an honest inventory of your life, there are all kinds of ugly things you have done. Everyone has. All of us are a hot mess. There is very little that separates priests from prostitutes when it comes to the motivation of the heart.

I say this as someone who was in fact the subject of highly inappropriate sexual contact when I was in high school through the husband of a trusted teacher. Despite a surface that looked highly successful, the incident left me very confused, hurt, and angry for a long time. It was also a contributing factor to my own behavior that hurt other people as an adult — an affair in my first marriage, a tendency to lie out of shame, a draw to addictive behaviors and compulsions to escape uncomfortable emotions including the trauma from high school.

It was only as my second marriage was on the verge of collapse and I realized that my successful career was not going to change my heart that I started to look into deeper places for real answers.

And it was only after I became a Christian and accepted the above as truth that I saw a path for change, growth, and redemption — that was the moment when I actually began to get over what happened to me and became a new person. Not in therapy, not through reading self help books, not through sitting aimlessly in church services over the years. I did all of those for years to no no avail.

It was only when I truly studied Christianity (and NOT the messed up MAGA version that dominates today unfortunately in many churches) — and became a real Christian — that I discovered a transformed heart.

Yeah we’re in the fallen world and people are corrupt, but why would God send a bear to maul 42 children just because two kids happened to mock a bald man?

God doesn't send anything -- good or bad. Sometimes people who believe in God think he (always a "he") sends us everything - both good and bad.

DP - read your gawdam book. 2 Kings 2:24

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Yeah it doesn't say specifically sent, but words, how do they work? It's very clear he did respond to Elisha's request.

I’m the one who posed the question. Thanks for knowing the reference. Worth noting that translators are very clear that “cursed” here does not mean “cursed at” but rather “placed a curse that God would enact.” Which means God did, in fact, send the bears to avenge his prophet.

I’m with the PP that humans are fallen. But this is some real fallen-human level road rage type behavior right here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

Stop pretending your definition aligns with how the overwhelming majority of people would define god. Just because you made up your own definition of what god is or should be doesn't mean others have to agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

Stop pretending your definition aligns with how the overwhelming majority of people would define god. Just because you made up your own definition of what god is or should be doesn't mean others have to agree with you.

I was asked for my definition of god, not yours or anyone else’s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

You don’t think that ecosystems can be defined by science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

You don’t think that ecosystems can be defined by science.

I think ecosystems can be proven by science and I think scientists can define them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

Stop pretending your definition aligns with how the overwhelming majority of people would define god. Just because you made up your own definition of what god is or should be doesn't mean others have to agree with you.

I was asked for my definition of god, not yours or anyone else’s

So instead of going with the normal definition, you just create your own that is supported by nothing other than your own viewpoint. Thus, its based on your own self created pile of BS.

That's not a religion and it's not worth sharing here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

You don’t think that ecosystems can be defined by science.

I think ecosystems can be proven by science and I think scientists can define them.

So nature/science is your “god”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I need a definition of god before I can respond.

Define it then.

here’s mine: the interconnectedness of life

Yet another logical fallacy.

Does this mean only surviving life today is part of your "god"? What do you consider happened to all the species that have gone extinct over the course of time on this planet? How does this provide space for life elsewhere in the universe? How is this related to creating the cosmos?

Lastly, if your god is reduced to such an inconsequential role, why bother with believing in it? What purpose does it serve?

It just means there is something bigger than all of us and we are part of the web of life. If you have trouble calling it “god”, think of it as an ecosystem. Like a tree isn’t just a tree, it has specific types of insects and birds and fungi and other things that are living in it and below it and we need it all. Stop trying to fit your definition of a god into mine.

Stop pretending your definition aligns with how the overwhelming majority of people would define god. Just because you made up your own definition of what god is or should be doesn't mean others have to agree with you.

I was asked for my definition of god, not yours or anyone else’s

So instead of going with the normal definition, you just create your own that is supported by nothing other than your own viewpoint. Thus, its based on your own self created pile of BS.

That's not a religion and it's not worth sharing here.

I think all religion is based on "your own self created pile of BS."