We don’t know if there are gods, or a God

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is choosing to be a theist something that requires rebuttals? I mean, what's it to you?

That's what I just don't get in all these threads. Why are atheists so militant all the time? Do you live in some real life world where you find believers constantly threatening to burn you at the stake? That went out a while back. And anyway we used to burn each other too over things like having a cat or a third nipple.

I really think discussion threads could be more informative if it wasn't just a constant reply of "irrational, stupid. Insufficient evidence, etc."

I am new to DCUM and asked some genuine questions last year about atheism so I could have a better idea of life as an atheist, and what philosophical or logical thought patterns or techniques atheists used to calm themselves in stressful times, quell fears. Instead all I got was stuff like "not sky fairies."

So be it.

I mean, I chose to believe my cat loved me but that was irrational and evidence was at best inconclusive. But what skin was that off doglovers' noses? Or animal haters, for that matter?

Why do atheists simply saying there is no god seem militant to you? It's not militant at all. it's a belief that this life is all we have. It's not believing in Gods. Not all atheists are alike any more than all religious people are alike. All atheists have in common is that they don't believe in God and all believers have in common is that they DO. Other than that, they are all regular people, with lots of differences and similarities.

Thanks for responding. Maybe militant isn't the right term, but I guess I would apply it to the posts that basically keep saying there is no god/you are stupid to believe in sky fairies over and over and over. These are one or two lines over and over. Vigilant? Repetitive?

I basically thought atheists were nice people, at least the ones I know of (religion isn't a topic of discussion person to person) or who say so online like a cat video guy, but getting called irrational, stupid, assumed to be evangelical or fundamentalist every time just gets old.

I mean, I don't reply to every "i don't believe there is a god and there is no scientific proof there is" with "god is real i know it in my heart" and if I did that would get old pretty fast too.

If you plan to be an atheist, you're going to need thicker skin. Try venturing into Bible Belt territory with a t-shirt that says F Jesus.

Why wear such a tee shirt anywhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is choosing to be a theist something that requires rebuttals? I mean, what's it to you?

That's what I just don't get in all these threads. Why are atheists so militant all the time? Do you live in some real life world where you find believers constantly threatening to burn you at the stake? That went out a while back. And anyway we used to burn each other too over things like having a cat or a third nipple.

I really think discussion threads could be more informative if it wasn't just a constant reply of "irrational, stupid. Insufficient evidence, etc."

I am new to DCUM and asked some genuine questions last year about atheism so I could have a better idea of life as an atheist, and what philosophical or logical thought patterns or techniques atheists used to calm themselves in stressful times, quell fears. Instead all I got was stuff like "not sky fairies."

So be it.

I mean, I chose to believe my cat loved me but that was irrational and evidence was at best inconclusive. But what skin was that off doglovers' noses? Or animal haters, for that matter?

Why do atheists simply saying there is no god seem militant to you? It's not militant at all. it's a belief that this life is all we have. It's not believing in Gods. Not all atheists are alike any more than all religious people are alike. All atheists have in common is that they don't believe in God and all believers have in common is that they DO. Other than that, they are all regular people, with lots of differences and similarities.

Thanks for responding. Maybe militant isn't the right term, but I guess I would apply it to the posts that basically keep saying there is no god/you are stupid to believe in sky fairies over and over and over. These are one or two lines over and over. Vigilant? Repetitive?

I basically thought atheists were nice people, at least the ones I know of (religion isn't a topic of discussion person to person) or who say so online like a cat video guy, but getting called irrational, stupid, assumed to be evangelical or fundamentalist every time just gets old.

I mean, I don't reply to every "i don't believe there is a god and there is no scientific proof there is" with "god is real i know it in my heart" and if I did that would get old pretty fast too.

If you plan to be an atheist, you're going to need thicker skin. Try venturing into Bible Belt territory with a t-shirt that says F Jesus.

Why wear such a tee shirt anywhere?

Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t the atheists just admit they drank the poison offered to them over the last century and they’ve tacitly accepted the government as their new religion?

… At least the government is tangible… it has actual buildings and people that you can see and touch… which means it’s real, right? And if you wish hard enough, it’s an institution that can be your everything…

WTF are you smoking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is it ok to say believers are stupid is it ok to say atheists are stupid?

Well, no. In the couple of posts prior, there is evidence for the "stupidity" of believers.

The atheists have demonstrated the opposite, intelligence.

Some believers are quite intelligent, though it doesn't show through in their belief in God. Also, some atheists are not so smart, except regarding their lack of belief in God.

I am no smarter now that I am an atheist. I am simply better informed.

I don’t believe that theists are, in general, stupid. But many clearly have to retreat to illogical positions to support their theological ones.

I believe that anyone who insists the flying spaghetti monster lives under my bed is less rational than me. They're making a claim they can't back up with reason or evidence. There's no reason to hold to the belief, and yet they do it anyway.

To me, irrational = illogical = stupid.

Sure, that's fine, you can make it that simple if you need to. I don't quite see it that way. People who aren't stupid can have stupid ideas and do stupid things. We all do sometimes.

FYI This is not a defense of theism in any way, it is an entirely irrational position with grossly insufficient evidence for it.

It’s not clear, but the PP could have meant that the positions were “irrational = illogical = stupid”. Describing the behavior, not the person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is it ok to say believers are stupid is it ok to say atheists are stupid?

Well, no. In the couple of posts prior, there is evidence for the "stupidity" of believers.

The atheists have demonstrated the opposite, intelligence.

Some believers are quite intelligent, though it doesn't show through in their belief in God. Also, some atheists are not so smart, except regarding their lack of belief in God.

I am no smarter now that I am an atheist. I am simply better informed.

I don’t believe that theists are, in general, stupid. But many clearly have to retreat to illogical positions to support their theological ones.

I believe that anyone who insists the flying spaghetti monster lives under my bed is less rational than me. They're making a claim they can't back up with reason or evidence. There's no reason to hold to the belief, and yet they do it anyway.

To me, irrational = illogical = stupid.

Sure, that's fine, you can make it that simple if you need to. I don't quite see it that way. People who aren't stupid can have stupid ideas and do stupid things. We all do sometimes.

FYI This is not a defense of theism in any way, it is an entirely irrational position with grossly insufficient evidence for it.

It’s not clear, but the PP could have meant that the positions were “irrational = illogical = stupid”. Describing the behavior, not the person.

Someone here thinks that everything is about them. Quoted section used "to me" not "you are" or "they are". They were expressing their viewpoint.

They are probably a Christian. They are taught their life has purpose and meaning and is part of God's special plan for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is it ok to say believers are stupid is it ok to say atheists are stupid?

Well, no. In the couple of posts prior, there is evidence for the "stupidity" of believers.

The atheists have demonstrated the opposite, intelligence.

Some believers are quite intelligent, though it doesn't show through in their belief in God. Also, some atheists are not so smart, except regarding their lack of belief in God.

I am no smarter now that I am an atheist. I am simply better informed.

I don’t believe that theists are, in general, stupid. But many clearly have to retreat to illogical positions to support their theological ones.

I believe that anyone who insists the flying spaghetti monster lives under my bed is less rational than me. They're making a claim they can't back up with reason or evidence. There's no reason to hold to the belief, and yet they do it anyway.

To me, irrational = illogical = stupid.

Sure, that's fine, you can make it that simple if you need to. I don't quite see it that way. People who aren't stupid can have stupid ideas and do stupid things. We all do sometimes.

FYI This is not a defense of theism in any way, it is an entirely irrational position with grossly insufficient evidence for it.

It’s not clear, but the PP could have meant that the positions were “irrational = illogical = stupid”. Describing the behavior, not the person.

Someone here thinks that everything is about them. Quoted section used "to me" not "you are" or "they are". They were expressing their viewpoint.

They are probably a Christian. They are taught their life has purpose and meaning and is part of God's special plan for them.

If an atheist were told or thought they were told they were irrational, illogical, and stupid would they find that annoying? Or just relax in their superiority and ngaf?

I will start ngaf.

Ta ta.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are they generally looking for?

Who said they were looking for anything?

Most people have goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is it ok to say believers are stupid is it ok to say atheists are stupid?

Well, no. In the couple of posts prior, there is evidence for the "stupidity" of believers.

The atheists have demonstrated the opposite, intelligence.

Some believers are quite intelligent, though it doesn't show through in their belief in God. Also, some atheists are not so smart, except regarding their lack of belief in God.

I am no smarter now that I am an atheist. I am simply better informed.

I don’t believe that theists are, in general, stupid. But many clearly have to retreat to illogical positions to support their theological ones.

I believe that anyone who insists the flying spaghetti monster lives under my bed is less rational than me. They're making a claim they can't back up with reason or evidence. There's no reason to hold to the belief, and yet they do it anyway.

To me, irrational = illogical = stupid.

Sure, that's fine, you can make it that simple if you need to. I don't quite see it that way. People who aren't stupid can have stupid ideas and do stupid things. We all do sometimes.

FYI This is not a defense of theism in any way, it is an entirely irrational position with grossly insufficient evidence for it.

It’s not clear, but the PP could have meant that the positions were “irrational = illogical = stupid”. Describing the behavior, not the person.

Yes, that is exactly what I said - but if you read the thread (and it is not all quoted so you'd have to painstaikingly backtrack, so don't expect you to) but the statements were the opposite - describing the person as stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is it ok to say believers are stupid is it ok to say atheists are stupid?

Well, no. In the couple of posts prior, there is evidence for the "stupidity" of believers.

The atheists have demonstrated the opposite, intelligence.

Some believers are quite intelligent, though it doesn't show through in their belief in God. Also, some atheists are not so smart, except regarding their lack of belief in God.

I am no smarter now that I am an atheist. I am simply better informed.

I don’t believe that theists are, in general, stupid. But many clearly have to retreat to illogical positions to support their theological ones.

I believe that anyone who insists the flying spaghetti monster lives under my bed is less rational than me. They're making a claim they can't back up with reason or evidence. There's no reason to hold to the belief, and yet they do it anyway.

To me, irrational = illogical = stupid.

Sure, that's fine, you can make it that simple if you need to. I don't quite see it that way. People who aren't stupid can have stupid ideas and do stupid things. We all do sometimes.

FYI This is not a defense of theism in any way, it is an entirely irrational position with grossly insufficient evidence for it.

It’s not clear, but the PP could have meant that the positions were “irrational = illogical = stupid”. Describing the behavior, not the person.

Someone here thinks that everything is about them. Quoted section used "to me" not "you are" or "they are". They were expressing their viewpoint.

They are probably a Christian. They are taught their life has purpose and meaning and is part of God's special plan for them.

If an atheist were told or thought they were told they were irrational, illogical, and stupid would they find that annoying? Or just relax in their superiority and ngaf?

I will start ngaf.

Ta ta.

No one was "told" anything.

If an irrational, illogical, and stupid person "thought they were told" something, then being annoyed is a reasonable reaction. That reaction is on them for their irrational, illogical, and stupid thinking.

As an atheist, I am able to rationalize what the PP was expressing. Thus, it does not bother me.

I am also not trying to represent all atheists. They can speak for themselves, as most do.

[Anonymous]

I am certainly not representative of most believers.
That said I am indeed a physiological hot reactor. Thank you for pointing this out. I can resolve to work on that since it's not good for my body.

Deep gratitude.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is it ok to say believers are stupid is it ok to say atheists are stupid?

Well, no. In the couple of posts prior, there is evidence for the "stupidity" of believers.

The atheists have demonstrated the opposite, intelligence.

Some believers are quite intelligent, though it doesn't show through in their belief in God. Also, some atheists are not so smart, except regarding their lack of belief in God.

I am no smarter now that I am an atheist. I am simply better informed.

I don’t believe that theists are, in general, stupid. But many clearly have to retreat to illogical positions to support their theological ones.

I believe that anyone who insists the flying spaghetti monster lives under my bed is less rational than me. They're making a claim they can't back up with reason or evidence. There's no reason to hold to the belief, and yet they do it anyway.

To me, irrational = illogical = stupid.

Sure, that's fine, you can make it that simple if you need to. I don't quite see it that way. People who aren't stupid can have stupid ideas and do stupid things. We all do sometimes.

FYI This is not a defense of theism in any way, it is an entirely irrational position with grossly insufficient evidence for it.

It’s not clear, but the PP could have meant that the positions were “irrational = illogical = stupid”. Describing the behavior, not the person.

Someone here thinks that everything is about them. Quoted section used "to me" not "you are" or "they are". They were expressing their viewpoint.

They are probably a Christian. They are taught their life has purpose and meaning and is part of God's special plan for them.

If an atheist were told or thought they were told they were irrational, illogical, and stupid would they find that annoying? Or just relax in their superiority and ngaf?

I will start ngaf.

Ta ta.

No one was "told" anything.

If an irrational, illogical, and stupid person "thought they were told" something, then being annoyed is a reasonable reaction. That reaction is on them for their irrational, illogical, and stupid thinking.

As an atheist, I am able to rationalize what the PP was expressing. Thus, it does not bother me.

I am also not trying to represent all atheists. They can speak for themselves, as most do.

Atheist here - it would depend on what I was told, whether I felt stupid or not. I generally don't feel stupid, but I am often uninformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is choosing to be a theist something that requires rebuttals? I mean, what's it to you?

That's what I just don't get in all these threads. Why are atheists so militant all the time? Do you live in some real life world where you find believers constantly threatening to burn you at the stake? That went out a while back. And anyway we used to burn each other too over things like having a cat or a third nipple.

I really think discussion threads could be more informative if it wasn't just a constant reply of "irrational, stupid. Insufficient evidence, etc."

I am new to DCUM and asked some genuine questions last year about atheism so I could have a better idea of life as an atheist, and what philosophical or logical thought patterns or techniques atheists used to calm themselves in stressful times, quell fears. Instead all I got was stuff like "not sky fairies."

So be it.

I mean, I chose to believe my cat loved me but that was irrational and evidence was at best inconclusive. But what skin was that off doglovers' noses? Or animal haters, for that matter?

Why do atheists simply saying there is no god seem militant to you? It's not militant at all. it's a belief that this life is all we have. It's not believing in Gods. Not all atheists are alike any more than all religious people are alike. All atheists have in common is that they don't believe in God and all believers have in common is that they DO. Other than that, they are all regular people, with lots of differences and similarities.

Thanks for responding. Maybe militant isn't the right term, but I guess I would apply it to the posts that basically keep saying there is no god/you are stupid to believe in sky fairies over and over and over. These are one or two lines over and over. Vigilant? Repetitive?

I basically thought atheists were nice people, at least the ones I know of (religion isn't a topic of discussion person to person) or who say so online like a cat video guy, but getting called irrational, stupid, assumed to be evangelical or fundamentalist every time just gets old.

I mean, I don't reply to every "i don't believe there is a god and there is no scientific proof there is" with "god is real i know it in my heart" and if I did that would get old pretty fast too.

If you plan to be an atheist, you're going to need thicker skin. Try venturing into Bible Belt territory with a t-shirt that says F Jesus.

Why wear such a tee shirt anywhere?

If someone can wear a t-shirt that says, "I "heart" Jesus", then a person should be able to wear a t-shirt that says, "F Jesus".

Do either need to provide a justification for doing so?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is choosing to be a theist something that requires rebuttals? I mean, what's it to you?

That's what I just don't get in all these threads. Why are atheists so militant all the time? Do you live in some real life world where you find believers constantly threatening to burn you at the stake? That went out a while back. And anyway we used to burn each other too over things like having a cat or a third nipple.

I really think discussion threads could be more informative if it wasn't just a constant reply of "irrational, stupid. Insufficient evidence, etc."

I am new to DCUM and asked some genuine questions last year about atheism so I could have a better idea of life as an atheist, and what philosophical or logical thought patterns or techniques atheists used to calm themselves in stressful times, quell fears. Instead all I got was stuff like "not sky fairies."

So be it.

I mean, I chose to believe my cat loved me but that was irrational and evidence was at best inconclusive. But what skin was that off doglovers' noses? Or animal haters, for that matter?

As an atheist, I agree with your point that it is completely unproductive (of either side obviously, but here you are talking about atheists), to call names, reduce the arguments to attack of religious people. As someone deeply harmed by religion, I can tell you, though, that there are serious harms coming from religion, not all religious people of course, and that is why some of us hold our positions with what sometimes feels like being militant. I appreciate a thoughtful, philosophical, logical discussion because it is important to me to add to the discourse that could one day change our world for the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is it ok to say believers are stupid is it ok to say atheists are stupid?

Well, no. In the couple of posts prior, there is evidence for the "stupidity" of believers.

The atheists have demonstrated the opposite, intelligence.

Some believers are quite intelligent, though it doesn't show through in their belief in God. Also, some atheists are not so smart, except regarding their lack of belief in God.

I am no smarter now that I am an atheist. I am simply better informed.

I don’t believe that theists are, in general, stupid. But many clearly have to retreat to illogical positions to support their theological ones.

I believe that anyone who insists the flying spaghetti monster lives under my bed is less rational than me. They're making a claim they can't back up with reason or evidence. There's no reason to hold to the belief, and yet they do it anyway.

To me, irrational = illogical = stupid.

There may be no good reason to hold to belief in God, except it becomes acceptable when so many people do it. And the promise of eternal life is great!

Some non-believers respect believers' right to hold religious views - even though they've rejected such views for themselves.

Such views are often not held in reverse. That is, believers often think it's acceptable to try to covert their friends to religion, when they've made it clear that they're not religious.

That's a reasonable bone to pick. But the "often" is weird to me but then I don't hold evangelical views. I would say "some" there too. This may lead to nonbelievers scolding me for being a bad believer, but I don't take the Bible literally either. Some believers don't lol.

I cannot imagine trying to convert anybody, especially when they have said they aren't religious. When they do that, I am vey careful to say I am thinking of then and hope they heal when they are injured or sick, never that I offer "thoughts and prayers."

As an atheist whose children and family that were deeply harmed by religion (also a PP), I wish all religious people were like you. However-they are not, and even NON evangelicals hold to some ways of thinking that can be harmful to others let alone themselves. That is why I am the activist that I am. In addition, "moderately" religious people still lend credence to a worldview and belief system that is ultimately caused great harm in this world, and by that measure is indirectly just as harmful. I happen to believe that most religious people (even the ones that caused harm to my familiy) are good people with brains that have been rewired into a system of belief that they are not really in control of. It is a reprogramming that has built in fail-safes, and that is very difficult to escape from

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is choosing to be a theist something that requires rebuttals? I mean, what's it to you?

That's what I just don't get in all these threads. Why are atheists so militant all the time? Do you live in some real life world where you find believers constantly threatening to burn you at the stake? That went out a while back. And anyway we used to burn each other too over things like having a cat or a third nipple.

I really think discussion threads could be more informative if it wasn't just a constant reply of "irrational, stupid. Insufficient evidence, etc."

I am new to DCUM and asked some genuine questions last year about atheism so I could have a better idea of life as an atheist, and what philosophical or logical thought patterns or techniques atheists used to calm themselves in stressful times, quell fears. Instead all I got was stuff like "not sky fairies."

So be it.

I mean, I chose to believe my cat loved me but that was irrational and evidence was at best inconclusive. But what skin was that off doglovers' noses? Or animal haters, for that matter?

As an atheist, I agree with your point that it is completely unproductive (of either side obviously, but here you are talking about atheists), to call names, reduce the arguments to attack of religious people. As someone deeply harmed by religion, I can tell you, though, that there are serious harms coming from religion, not all religious people of course, and that is why some of us hold our positions with what sometimes feels like being militant. I appreciate a thoughtful, philosophical, logical discussion because it is important to me to add to the discourse that could one day change our world for the better.

Not possible unless everyone is working off of the same facts/assumptions.