Montgomery County - What Happened?

[Anonymous]

Montgomery County, MD. changed when it became a sanctuary county and reform the justice system. Crime is out of control. Everyone is leaving moving further out of the county.
Read the crime reports and arrests. Crime is everywhere even on the Metro.
There's been over five hundred rapes and sexual assaults reported last year. Maybe three times as much not reported.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess people on this board don't care about health care and life sciences jobs?

https://governor.maryland.gov/news/press/pages/Governor-Moore-and-AstraZeneca-Announce-$2-Billion-Investment-to-Expand-Manufacturing-in-Maryland,-Supporting-2,600-Jobs.aspx

Meanwhile, Amazon is laying off people constantly and hasn't followed through on its promises to Arlington.

LOL! I read the press release and this $2 billion investment is just creating 300 permanent jobs. The rest of the work will be done by robots probably. Pathetic.

You can’t lay off jobs that were never created.

In contrast, Amazon will probably exit Arlington entirely in 10 years, after it decides it no longer needs to have any workers here.

Arlington was a lot nicer than Montgomery County before Amazon. It had, and still has, the largest percentage of residents with graduate degrees in the entire country. It had so much tax revenue coming in pre Amazon it was building million dollar bus stops on Columbia Pike and renovated its high schools to look like college campuses. Montgomery County is getting sued because there’s black mold in their schools.

You don’t want to get in a tit for tat battle between Arlington and Montgomery County. Stick to pretending that places like Montgomery Village, Germantown, and Gaithersburg don’t exist and attacking Fairfax’s suburban sprawl and data centers as if it’s any more unsightly than driving up Georgia Avenue or Rockville Pike.

Which Arlington? Arlington is ugly as hell. The whole NoVa is fugly.

Posts like this are in bad faith, and so tiring.

Look, I’m a DC guy living in Logan Circle, so I don’t really have skin in the game here in terms of MoCo vs NoVa. The legacy areas of MoCo that are beautiful are exactly that — very beautiful. I’m talking Chevy Chase, Kenwood, Bethesda, the ritzy parts of Potomac, Kensington, and a few others. Many of these are nicer aesthetically than the nicest that NoVa has to offer. But the key word is “legacy” — these areas are what they are as a product of a different time when MoCo was the king of the area. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, MoCo was the place, and NoVa was its podunk cousin, with a few nice areas to be sure, but MoCo was king.

That being said, this topic isn’t about that. It’s about now, and the structural truth is that NoVa has surged way past MoCo as a whole in terms of jobs, wealth, and development over the past 20 years. And no amount of snide posting that NoVa is “ugly” will change that fact.

NoVa may have surpassed MoCo in terms of jobs, but it's still ugly.
Having a bunch of development, structures and concrete, doesn't make an area aesthetically pleasing, au contraire.

I would argue that as a whole, there’s really no difference in beauty between MoCo and NoVa. Are you really going to argue with a straight face that Gaithersburg, Rockville, much of Silver Spring aren’t ugly and essentially just strip mall after strip mall? Sure, Takoma Park, Bethesda and Chevy Chase and Potomac are pretty. But so are Old Town, Belle Haven, Mount Vernon by the water, McLean, Del Ray, Falls Church, etc.

As a whole the two areas are on equal footing aesthetically and any other claim here is made in bad faith.

You keep insisting that those who disagree with you are acting in "bad faith." This is an extremely poor debating technique because it signals that you don't want to have a real debate on the merits and instead want to just focus on motives.

Lots of people choose MoCo because they believe it is prettier (including me), and if you don't see that, it's fine -- you just have a different opinion. And if you think Gaithersburg, Rockville, and SS only have strip malls, then that just reveals that you haven't visited those areas -- including downtown Silver Spring, Rockville Town Square, Pike & Rose, Kentlands, Downtown Crown, and the Rio. We get it, you prefer Nova. But if you want to opine about MoCo, please make sure it's factual.

Trying to change the subject is acting in bad faith.

Reminder of the topic: Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America ...
Now it’s ranked 20th... What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

Well, one huge factor is the growth of military contractors in Virginia. Take out that one —huge, significant— piece and everything changes. As far as comparisons go, MoCo doesn’t have anything like Old Town , but Montgomery County also peaked earlier with factors that matter to me — like racially integrated neighborhoods and schools. I’ve been living here long enough to appreciate that. I also don’t see it as a competition. There are similarities and there are differences. Pick the best fit.

I'm also from moco and also don't see it as a competition. We all gain more from cooperation. For example we need an outerloop, or at least a connection across the Potomac further north. I think they should do a tunnel that connect rt 28 in MD to rt 28 in VA. We need a train out to BWI. And we need tax incentives for sci/tech. I don't think moco works as a bedroom community due to the geography of the Potomac river.

Huh? MARC and Amtrak both have BWI stops. Are you thinking Metro? A Virginia commuter train? Something else?

How would you suggest using MARC or Amtrak to get to BWI from MoCo?

NP. Red line to Union station, then Amtrak or Marc.

So not a real option for people in Montgomery County at all.

Huh? The red line is accessible for most of the county. It is very easy to take the metro frrm Bethesda, Rockville, etc to Union then a qucik amtrak right to the airport?

That takes too long. Your route is competing with the silver line or the Dulles toll road from Rosslyn, Tysons, and Reston. You seem to think people’s time is free. That might be true at a nonprofit or the government but it’s not true at businesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess people on this board don't care about health care and life sciences jobs?

https://governor.maryland.gov/news/press/pages/Governor-Moore-and-AstraZeneca-Announce-$2-Billion-Investment-to-Expand-Manufacturing-in-Maryland,-Supporting-2,600-Jobs.aspx

Meanwhile, Amazon is laying off people constantly and hasn't followed through on its promises to Arlington.

LOL! I read the press release and this $2 billion investment is just creating 300 permanent jobs. The rest of the work will be done by robots probably. Pathetic.

You can’t lay off jobs that were never created.

In contrast, Amazon will probably exit Arlington entirely in 10 years, after it decides it no longer needs to have any workers here.

Arlington was a lot nicer than Montgomery County before Amazon. It had, and still has, the largest percentage of residents with graduate degrees in the entire country. It had so much tax revenue coming in pre Amazon it was building million dollar bus stops on Columbia Pike and renovated its high schools to look like college campuses. Montgomery County is getting sued because there’s black mold in their schools.

You don’t want to get in a tit for tat battle between Arlington and Montgomery County. Stick to pretending that places like Montgomery Village, Germantown, and Gaithersburg don’t exist and attacking Fairfax’s suburban sprawl and data centers as if it’s any more unsightly than driving up Georgia Avenue or Rockville Pike.

Which Arlington? Arlington is ugly as hell. The whole NoVa is fugly.

Posts like this are in bad faith, and so tiring.

Look, I’m a DC guy living in Logan Circle, so I don’t really have skin in the game here in terms of MoCo vs NoVa. The legacy areas of MoCo that are beautiful are exactly that — very beautiful. I’m talking Chevy Chase, Kenwood, Bethesda, the ritzy parts of Potomac, Kensington, and a few others. Many of these are nicer aesthetically than the nicest that NoVa has to offer. But the key word is “legacy” — these areas are what they are as a product of a different time when MoCo was the king of the area. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, MoCo was the place, and NoVa was its podunk cousin, with a few nice areas to be sure, but MoCo was king.

That being said, this topic isn’t about that. It’s about now, and the structural truth is that NoVa has surged way past MoCo as a whole in terms of jobs, wealth, and development over the past 20 years. And no amount of snide posting that NoVa is “ugly” will change that fact.

NoVa may have surpassed MoCo in terms of jobs, but it's still ugly.
Having a bunch of development, structures and concrete, doesn't make an area aesthetically pleasing, au contraire.

I would argue that as a whole, there’s really no difference in beauty between MoCo and NoVa. Are you really going to argue with a straight face that Gaithersburg, Rockville, much of Silver Spring aren’t ugly and essentially just strip mall after strip mall? Sure, Takoma Park, Bethesda and Chevy Chase and Potomac are pretty. But so are Old Town, Belle Haven, Mount Vernon by the water, McLean, Del Ray, Falls Church, etc.

As a whole the two areas are on equal footing aesthetically and any other claim here is made in bad faith.

You keep insisting that those who disagree with you are acting in "bad faith." This is an extremely poor debating technique because it signals that you don't want to have a real debate on the merits and instead want to just focus on motives.

Lots of people choose MoCo because they believe it is prettier (including me), and if you don't see that, it's fine -- you just have a different opinion. And if you think Gaithersburg, Rockville, and SS only have strip malls, then that just reveals that you haven't visited those areas -- including downtown Silver Spring, Rockville Town Square, Pike & Rose, Kentlands, Downtown Crown, and the Rio. We get it, you prefer Nova. But if you want to opine about MoCo, please make sure it's factual.

Trying to change the subject is acting in bad faith.

Reminder of the topic: Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America ...
Now it’s ranked 20th... What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

Well, one huge factor is the growth of military contractors in Virginia. Take out that one —huge, significant— piece and everything changes. As far as comparisons go, MoCo doesn’t have anything like Old Town , but Montgomery County also peaked earlier with factors that matter to me — like racially integrated neighborhoods and schools. I’ve been living here long enough to appreciate that. I also don’t see it as a competition. There are similarities and there are differences. Pick the best fit.

I'm also from moco and also don't see it as a competition. We all gain more from cooperation. For example we need an outerloop, or at least a connection across the Potomac further north. I think they should do a tunnel that connect rt 28 in MD to rt 28 in VA. We need a train out to BWI. And we need tax incentives for sci/tech. I don't think moco works as a bedroom community due to the geography of the Potomac river.

Huh? MARC and Amtrak both have BWI stops. Are you thinking Metro? A Virginia commuter train? Something else?

How would you suggest using MARC or Amtrak to get to BWI from MoCo?

NP. Red line to Union station, then Amtrak or Marc.

So not a real option for people in Montgomery County at all.

Huh? The red line is accessible for most of the county. It is very easy to take the metro frrm Bethesda, Rockville, etc to Union then a qucik amtrak right to the airport?

That takes too long. Your route is competing with the silver line or the Dulles toll road from Rosslyn, Tysons, and Reston. You seem to think people’s time is free. That might be true at a nonprofit or the government but it’s not true at businesses.

NP. BWI is easily accessible by car and there are train options. Never had a problem with it. No one complains about BWI. Easy airport like DCA. Everyone complains about Dulles. Dulles loves wasting people’s time on god awful people movers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess people on this board don't care about health care and life sciences jobs?

https://governor.maryland.gov/news/press/pages/Governor-Moore-and-AstraZeneca-Announce-$2-Billion-Investment-to-Expand-Manufacturing-in-Maryland,-Supporting-2,600-Jobs.aspx

Meanwhile, Amazon is laying off people constantly and hasn't followed through on its promises to Arlington.

LOL! I read the press release and this $2 billion investment is just creating 300 permanent jobs. The rest of the work will be done by robots probably. Pathetic.

You can’t lay off jobs that were never created.

In contrast, Amazon will probably exit Arlington entirely in 10 years, after it decides it no longer needs to have any workers here.

Arlington was a lot nicer than Montgomery County before Amazon. It had, and still has, the largest percentage of residents with graduate degrees in the entire country. It had so much tax revenue coming in pre Amazon it was building million dollar bus stops on Columbia Pike and renovated its high schools to look like college campuses. Montgomery County is getting sued because there’s black mold in their schools.

You don’t want to get in a tit for tat battle between Arlington and Montgomery County. Stick to pretending that places like Montgomery Village, Germantown, and Gaithersburg don’t exist and attacking Fairfax’s suburban sprawl and data centers as if it’s any more unsightly than driving up Georgia Avenue or Rockville Pike.

Which Arlington? Arlington is ugly as hell. The whole NoVa is fugly.

Posts like this are in bad faith, and so tiring.

Look, I’m a DC guy living in Logan Circle, so I don’t really have skin in the game here in terms of MoCo vs NoVa. The legacy areas of MoCo that are beautiful are exactly that — very beautiful. I’m talking Chevy Chase, Kenwood, Bethesda, the ritzy parts of Potomac, Kensington, and a few others. Many of these are nicer aesthetically than the nicest that NoVa has to offer. But the key word is “legacy” — these areas are what they are as a product of a different time when MoCo was the king of the area. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, MoCo was the place, and NoVa was its podunk cousin, with a few nice areas to be sure, but MoCo was king.

That being said, this topic isn’t about that. It’s about now, and the structural truth is that NoVa has surged way past MoCo as a whole in terms of jobs, wealth, and development over the past 20 years. And no amount of snide posting that NoVa is “ugly” will change that fact.

NoVa may have surpassed MoCo in terms of jobs, but it's still ugly.
Having a bunch of development, structures and concrete, doesn't make an area aesthetically pleasing, au contraire.

I would argue that as a whole, there’s really no difference in beauty between MoCo and NoVa. Are you really going to argue with a straight face that Gaithersburg, Rockville, much of Silver Spring aren’t ugly and essentially just strip mall after strip mall? Sure, Takoma Park, Bethesda and Chevy Chase and Potomac are pretty. But so are Old Town, Belle Haven, Mount Vernon by the water, McLean, Del Ray, Falls Church, etc.

As a whole the two areas are on equal footing aesthetically and any other claim here is made in bad faith.

You keep insisting that those who disagree with you are acting in "bad faith." This is an extremely poor debating technique because it signals that you don't want to have a real debate on the merits and instead want to just focus on motives.

Lots of people choose MoCo because they believe it is prettier (including me), and if you don't see that, it's fine -- you just have a different opinion. And if you think Gaithersburg, Rockville, and SS only have strip malls, then that just reveals that you haven't visited those areas -- including downtown Silver Spring, Rockville Town Square, Pike & Rose, Kentlands, Downtown Crown, and the Rio. We get it, you prefer Nova. But if you want to opine about MoCo, please make sure it's factual.

Trying to change the subject is acting in bad faith.

Reminder of the topic: Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America ...
Now it’s ranked 20th... What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

Well, one huge factor is the growth of military contractors in Virginia. Take out that one —huge, significant— piece and everything changes. As far as comparisons go, MoCo doesn’t have anything like Old Town , but Montgomery County also peaked earlier with factors that matter to me — like racially integrated neighborhoods and schools. I’ve been living here long enough to appreciate that. I also don’t see it as a competition. There are similarities and there are differences. Pick the best fit.

I'm also from moco and also don't see it as a competition. We all gain more from cooperation. For example we need an outerloop, or at least a connection across the Potomac further north. I think they should do a tunnel that connect rt 28 in MD to rt 28 in VA. We need a train out to BWI. And we need tax incentives for sci/tech. I don't think moco works as a bedroom community due to the geography of the Potomac river.

Huh? MARC and Amtrak both have BWI stops. Are you thinking Metro? A Virginia commuter train? Something else?

How would you suggest using MARC or Amtrak to get to BWI from MoCo?

NP. Red line to Union station, then Amtrak or Marc.

So not a real option for people in Montgomery County at all.

Huh? The red line is accessible for most of the county. It is very easy to take the metro frrm Bethesda, Rockville, etc to Union then a qucik amtrak right to the airport?

That takes too long. Your route is competing with the silver line or the Dulles toll road from Rosslyn, Tysons, and Reston. You seem to think people’s time is free. That might be true at a nonprofit or the government but it’s not true at businesses.

NP. BWI is easily accessible by car and there are train options. Never had a problem with it. No one complains about BWI. Easy airport like DCA. Everyone complains about Dulles. Dulles loves wasting people’s time on god awful people movers.

From home I can get to Dulles and National faster than BWI and neither is particularly close. From work I can leave the office and be at my gate within an hour. Can’t do that with BWI. That’s the convenience that businesses need. BWI is fine for leisure travel but that’s about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess people on this board don't care about health care and life sciences jobs?

https://governor.maryland.gov/news/press/pages/Governor-Moore-and-AstraZeneca-Announce-$2-Billion-Investment-to-Expand-Manufacturing-in-Maryland,-Supporting-2,600-Jobs.aspx

Meanwhile, Amazon is laying off people constantly and hasn't followed through on its promises to Arlington.

LOL! I read the press release and this $2 billion investment is just creating 300 permanent jobs. The rest of the work will be done by robots probably. Pathetic.

You can’t lay off jobs that were never created.

In contrast, Amazon will probably exit Arlington entirely in 10 years, after it decides it no longer needs to have any workers here.

Arlington was a lot nicer than Montgomery County before Amazon. It had, and still has, the largest percentage of residents with graduate degrees in the entire country. It had so much tax revenue coming in pre Amazon it was building million dollar bus stops on Columbia Pike and renovated its high schools to look like college campuses. Montgomery County is getting sued because there’s black mold in their schools.

You don’t want to get in a tit for tat battle between Arlington and Montgomery County. Stick to pretending that places like Montgomery Village, Germantown, and Gaithersburg don’t exist and attacking Fairfax’s suburban sprawl and data centers as if it’s any more unsightly than driving up Georgia Avenue or Rockville Pike.

Which Arlington? Arlington is ugly as hell. The whole NoVa is fugly.

Posts like this are in bad faith, and so tiring.

Look, I’m a DC guy living in Logan Circle, so I don’t really have skin in the game here in terms of MoCo vs NoVa. The legacy areas of MoCo that are beautiful are exactly that — very beautiful. I’m talking Chevy Chase, Kenwood, Bethesda, the ritzy parts of Potomac, Kensington, and a few others. Many of these are nicer aesthetically than the nicest that NoVa has to offer. But the key word is “legacy” — these areas are what they are as a product of a different time when MoCo was the king of the area. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, MoCo was the place, and NoVa was its podunk cousin, with a few nice areas to be sure, but MoCo was king.

That being said, this topic isn’t about that. It’s about now, and the structural truth is that NoVa has surged way past MoCo as a whole in terms of jobs, wealth, and development over the past 20 years. And no amount of snide posting that NoVa is “ugly” will change that fact.

NoVa may have surpassed MoCo in terms of jobs, but it's still ugly.
Having a bunch of development, structures and concrete, doesn't make an area aesthetically pleasing, au contraire.

I would argue that as a whole, there’s really no difference in beauty between MoCo and NoVa. Are you really going to argue with a straight face that Gaithersburg, Rockville, much of Silver Spring aren’t ugly and essentially just strip mall after strip mall? Sure, Takoma Park, Bethesda and Chevy Chase and Potomac are pretty. But so are Old Town, Belle Haven, Mount Vernon by the water, McLean, Del Ray, Falls Church, etc.

As a whole the two areas are on equal footing aesthetically and any other claim here is made in bad faith.

You keep insisting that those who disagree with you are acting in "bad faith." This is an extremely poor debating technique because it signals that you don't want to have a real debate on the merits and instead want to just focus on motives.

Lots of people choose MoCo because they believe it is prettier (including me), and if you don't see that, it's fine -- you just have a different opinion. And if you think Gaithersburg, Rockville, and SS only have strip malls, then that just reveals that you haven't visited those areas -- including downtown Silver Spring, Rockville Town Square, Pike & Rose, Kentlands, Downtown Crown, and the Rio. We get it, you prefer Nova. But if you want to opine about MoCo, please make sure it's factual.

Trying to change the subject is acting in bad faith.

Reminder of the topic: Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America ...
Now it’s ranked 20th... What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

Well, one huge factor is the growth of military contractors in Virginia. Take out that one —huge, significant— piece and everything changes. As far as comparisons go, MoCo doesn’t have anything like Old Town , but Montgomery County also peaked earlier with factors that matter to me — like racially integrated neighborhoods and schools. I’ve been living here long enough to appreciate that. I also don’t see it as a competition. There are similarities and there are differences. Pick the best fit.

I'm also from moco and also don't see it as a competition. We all gain more from cooperation. For example we need an outerloop, or at least a connection across the Potomac further north. I think they should do a tunnel that connect rt 28 in MD to rt 28 in VA. We need a train out to BWI. And we need tax incentives for sci/tech. I don't think moco works as a bedroom community due to the geography of the Potomac river.

Huh? MARC and Amtrak both have BWI stops. Are you thinking Metro? A Virginia commuter train? Something else?

How would you suggest using MARC or Amtrak to get to BWI from MoCo?

NP. Red line to Union station, then Amtrak or Marc.

So not a real option for people in Montgomery County at all.

Huh? The red line is accessible for most of the county. It is very easy to take the metro frrm Bethesda, Rockville, etc to Union then a qucik amtrak right to the airport?

Oh yeah, really easy and quick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America with more than 20,000 residents in the 1980s. It was close to the top in the 70s as well.

Now it’s ranked 20th, with 5 counties in NoVa in front of it. What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1984/03/21/which-is-richerfairfax-and-montgomery-lead-census-bureaus-list-of-wealthiest-large-counties/48976a8b-e4cf-4aac-8c4b-a3bd43d10c92/

Fairfax and Montgomery counties, the Washington area's two most affluent suburbs, are also the two richest large counties in the nation, according to a new compilation of data by the U.S. Census Bureau.

Four county equivalents called boroughs in oil-rich and high-priced Alaska have even higher median household incomes, the bureau said, but none of them has more than 20,000 residents. The highest is Bristol Bay, Alaska--median income $33,516, population 1,094.

The rankings, published in the Census Bureau's new County and City Data Book, come from the 1980 census.
Fairfax and Montgomery were also at the top of the county income heap in the 1970 census. At that time, the rankings were compiled according to median family income and placed Montgomery slightly ahead of Fairfax.

In the new data, incomes are given for households, including not only families, which the census defines as married couples and their children living at home, but also unmarried couples, roommates and singles.

By this reckoning the median household income for Fairfax is $30,011, more than a thousand dollars above the $28,987 reported for Montgomery. However, Montgomery is still slightly ahead of Fairfax in median family income, $33,702 to $33,173

Montgomery County made it a priority to recruit the poor from other countries.

And to pander to developers who want to refine single family home neighborhoods for profit but cloak it as “attainable housing”. Thanks to Natali Fani-Gonzalez and Andrew Friedson.

As soon as my kids graduate from HS I’m out of here. And even our schools suck now.

I might leave but I’ll keep my real estate as rental income.

Even the quick and dirty ChatGPT version agrees that even though you might not want to live through it, the changes coming might support investment value.

“In most real-world markets, rents still tend to increase (or at least remain stable) even when density rises, traffic worsens, and service quality declines — but why this happens depends on several economic mechanisms:

⸻

Why rents often keep rising even when conditions worsen

1. High demand outweighs declining quality

If more people want to live in an area than there are available units, demand pressure pushes rents up even if:
• congestion increases
• services decline
• commute times rise

This is especially true in cities with strong job markets (e.g., New York, San Francisco, London).

⸻

2. Limited housing supply

If zoning rules, construction costs, or land scarcity limit new housing, the supply stays tight.
With limited supply:
• even lower-quality conditions don’t reduce rents much
• landlords know they can fill units anyway

⸻

3. Rent stickiness

Rents tend to be sticky downward, meaning they rarely fall unless something major happens:
• recession
• high vacancy rates
• population decline
• oversupply of new housing

Minor quality declines rarely cause a rent drop.

⸻

4. People pay for proximity, not comfort

In dense urban areas, people mainly pay for:
• proximity to jobs
• public transit access
• cultural amenities
• schools
• social networks

Even if day-to-day quality worsens, the location premium remains.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess people on this board don't care about health care and life sciences jobs?

https://governor.maryland.gov/news/press/pages/Governor-Moore-and-AstraZeneca-Announce-$2-Billion-Investment-to-Expand-Manufacturing-in-Maryland,-Supporting-2,600-Jobs.aspx

Meanwhile, Amazon is laying off people constantly and hasn't followed through on its promises to Arlington.

LOL! I read the press release and this $2 billion investment is just creating 300 permanent jobs. The rest of the work will be done by robots probably. Pathetic.

You can’t lay off jobs that were never created.

In contrast, Amazon will probably exit Arlington entirely in 10 years, after it decides it no longer needs to have any workers here.

Arlington was a lot nicer than Montgomery County before Amazon. It had, and still has, the largest percentage of residents with graduate degrees in the entire country. It had so much tax revenue coming in pre Amazon it was building million dollar bus stops on Columbia Pike and renovated its high schools to look like college campuses. Montgomery County is getting sued because there’s black mold in their schools.

You don’t want to get in a tit for tat battle between Arlington and Montgomery County. Stick to pretending that places like Montgomery Village, Germantown, and Gaithersburg don’t exist and attacking Fairfax’s suburban sprawl and data centers as if it’s any more unsightly than driving up Georgia Avenue or Rockville Pike.

Which Arlington? Arlington is ugly as hell. The whole NoVa is fugly.

Posts like this are in bad faith, and so tiring.

Look, I’m a DC guy living in Logan Circle, so I don’t really have skin in the game here in terms of MoCo vs NoVa. The legacy areas of MoCo that are beautiful are exactly that — very beautiful. I’m talking Chevy Chase, Kenwood, Bethesda, the ritzy parts of Potomac, Kensington, and a few others. Many of these are nicer aesthetically than the nicest that NoVa has to offer. But the key word is “legacy” — these areas are what they are as a product of a different time when MoCo was the king of the area. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, MoCo was the place, and NoVa was its podunk cousin, with a few nice areas to be sure, but MoCo was king.

That being said, this topic isn’t about that. It’s about now, and the structural truth is that NoVa has surged way past MoCo as a whole in terms of jobs, wealth, and development over the past 20 years. And no amount of snide posting that NoVa is “ugly” will change that fact.

NoVa may have surpassed MoCo in terms of jobs, but it's still ugly.
Having a bunch of development, structures and concrete, doesn't make an area aesthetically pleasing, au contraire.

I would argue that as a whole, there’s really no difference in beauty between MoCo and NoVa. Are you really going to argue with a straight face that Gaithersburg, Rockville, much of Silver Spring aren’t ugly and essentially just strip mall after strip mall? Sure, Takoma Park, Bethesda and Chevy Chase and Potomac are pretty. But so are Old Town, Belle Haven, Mount Vernon by the water, McLean, Del Ray, Falls Church, etc.

As a whole the two areas are on equal footing aesthetically and any other claim here is made in bad faith.

You keep insisting that those who disagree with you are acting in "bad faith." This is an extremely poor debating technique because it signals that you don't want to have a real debate on the merits and instead want to just focus on motives.

Lots of people choose MoCo because they believe it is prettier (including me), and if you don't see that, it's fine -- you just have a different opinion. And if you think Gaithersburg, Rockville, and SS only have strip malls, then that just reveals that you haven't visited those areas -- including downtown Silver Spring, Rockville Town Square, Pike & Rose, Kentlands, Downtown Crown, and the Rio. We get it, you prefer Nova. But if you want to opine about MoCo, please make sure it's factual.

Trying to change the subject is acting in bad faith.

Reminder of the topic: Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America ...
Now it’s ranked 20th... What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

Well, one huge factor is the growth of military contractors in Virginia. Take out that one —huge, significant— piece and everything changes. As far as comparisons go, MoCo doesn’t have anything like Old Town , but Montgomery County also peaked earlier with factors that matter to me — like racially integrated neighborhoods and schools. I’ve been living here long enough to appreciate that. I also don’t see it as a competition. There are similarities and there are differences. Pick the best fit.

I'm also from moco and also don't see it as a competition. We all gain more from cooperation. For example we need an outerloop, or at least a connection across the Potomac further north. I think they should do a tunnel that connect rt 28 in MD to rt 28 in VA. We need a train out to BWI. And we need tax incentives for sci/tech. I don't think moco works as a bedroom community due to the geography of the Potomac river.

Huh? MARC and Amtrak both have BWI stops. Are you thinking Metro? A Virginia commuter train? Something else?

How would you suggest using MARC or Amtrak to get to BWI from MoCo?

NP. Red line to Union station, then Amtrak or Marc.

So not a real option for people in Montgomery County at all.

Huh? The red line is accessible for most of the county. It is very easy to take the metro frrm Bethesda, Rockville, etc to Union then a qucik amtrak right to the airport?

Oh yeah, really easy and quick.

How easy is it to get on the Metro from Centreville or Reston to National Airport? You have to transfer there too. Maryland isn’t going to be entrusted with any matching federal funds anytime soon for a large scale train project to BWI after the Purple Line came in $2 billion over budget and has been delayed for at least 5 years. You wouldn’t finance a clown show like that with your own money either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery County, MD. changed when it became a sanctuary county and reform the justice system. Crime is out of control. Everyone is leaving moving further out of the county.
Read the crime reports and arrests. Crime is everywhere even on the Metro.
There's been over five hundred rapes and sexual assaults reported last year. Maybe three times as much not reported.

I think you're mistaken. You've described Arlington:
https://www.arlingtonva.us/Government/Departments/Police-Department/Crime-Data-Hub

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America with more than 20,000 residents in the 1980s. It was close to the top in the 70s as well.

Now it’s ranked 20th, with 5 counties in NoVa in front of it. What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1984/03/21/which-is-richerfairfax-and-montgomery-lead-census-bureaus-list-of-wealthiest-large-counties/48976a8b-e4cf-4aac-8c4b-a3bd43d10c92/

Fairfax and Montgomery counties, the Washington area's two most affluent suburbs, are also the two richest large counties in the nation, according to a new compilation of data by the U.S. Census Bureau.

Four county equivalents called boroughs in oil-rich and high-priced Alaska have even higher median household incomes, the bureau said, but none of them has more than 20,000 residents. The highest is Bristol Bay, Alaska--median income $33,516, population 1,094.

The rankings, published in the Census Bureau's new County and City Data Book, come from the 1980 census.
Fairfax and Montgomery were also at the top of the county income heap in the 1970 census. At that time, the rankings were compiled according to median family income and placed Montgomery slightly ahead of Fairfax.

In the new data, incomes are given for households, including not only families, which the census defines as married couples and their children living at home, but also unmarried couples, roommates and singles.

By this reckoning the median household income for Fairfax is $30,011, more than a thousand dollars above the $28,987 reported for Montgomery. However, Montgomery is still slightly ahead of Fairfax in median family income, $33,702 to $33,173

Montgomery County made it a priority to recruit the poor from other countries.

And to pander to developers who want to refine single family home neighborhoods for profit but cloak it as “attainable housing”. Thanks to Natali Fani-Gonzalez and Andrew Friedson.

As soon as my kids graduate from HS I’m out of here. And even our schools suck now.

Yup, the countdown is on for us. We've got a few years to search for greener, warmer pastures.

[Anonymous]

Went from center-left to far left. Totally fked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery County, MD. changed when it became a sanctuary county and reform the justice system. Crime is out of control. Everyone is leaving moving further out of the county.
Read the crime reports and arrests. Crime is everywhere even on the Metro.
There's been over five hundred rapes and sexual assaults reported last year. Maybe three times as much not reported.

Crime is down significantly compared to the past couple of years. Rape cases are down 17% compared to the same time last year, and other sex offenses are down 15%. Aggravated and simple assault are both down by 10%. Carjacking is down 40%. Commercial robbery is down 22%. Even shoplifting, which seemed to take over the DMV over the past several years, is down.

And it's not a sanctuary county. Just because we don't do federal law enforcement for free doesn't make us a sanctuary. It just means we abide by the Founders' federalist separation of powers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess people on this board don't care about health care and life sciences jobs?

https://governor.maryland.gov/news/press/pages/Governor-Moore-and-AstraZeneca-Announce-$2-Billion-Investment-to-Expand-Manufacturing-in-Maryland,-Supporting-2,600-Jobs.aspx

Meanwhile, Amazon is laying off people constantly and hasn't followed through on its promises to Arlington.

LOL! I read the press release and this $2 billion investment is just creating 300 permanent jobs. The rest of the work will be done by robots probably. Pathetic.

You can’t lay off jobs that were never created.

In contrast, Amazon will probably exit Arlington entirely in 10 years, after it decides it no longer needs to have any workers here.

Arlington was a lot nicer than Montgomery County before Amazon. It had, and still has, the largest percentage of residents with graduate degrees in the entire country. It had so much tax revenue coming in pre Amazon it was building million dollar bus stops on Columbia Pike and renovated its high schools to look like college campuses. Montgomery County is getting sued because there’s black mold in their schools.

You don’t want to get in a tit for tat battle between Arlington and Montgomery County. Stick to pretending that places like Montgomery Village, Germantown, and Gaithersburg don’t exist and attacking Fairfax’s suburban sprawl and data centers as if it’s any more unsightly than driving up Georgia Avenue or Rockville Pike.

Which Arlington? Arlington is ugly as hell. The whole NoVa is fugly.

Posts like this are in bad faith, and so tiring.

Look, I’m a DC guy living in Logan Circle, so I don’t really have skin in the game here in terms of MoCo vs NoVa. The legacy areas of MoCo that are beautiful are exactly that — very beautiful. I’m talking Chevy Chase, Kenwood, Bethesda, the ritzy parts of Potomac, Kensington, and a few others. Many of these are nicer aesthetically than the nicest that NoVa has to offer. But the key word is “legacy” — these areas are what they are as a product of a different time when MoCo was the king of the area. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, MoCo was the place, and NoVa was its podunk cousin, with a few nice areas to be sure, but MoCo was king.

That being said, this topic isn’t about that. It’s about now, and the structural truth is that NoVa has surged way past MoCo as a whole in terms of jobs, wealth, and development over the past 20 years. And no amount of snide posting that NoVa is “ugly” will change that fact.

NoVa may have surpassed MoCo in terms of jobs, but it's still ugly.
Having a bunch of development, structures and concrete, doesn't make an area aesthetically pleasing, au contraire.

I would argue that as a whole, there’s really no difference in beauty between MoCo and NoVa. Are you really going to argue with a straight face that Gaithersburg, Rockville, much of Silver Spring aren’t ugly and essentially just strip mall after strip mall? Sure, Takoma Park, Bethesda and Chevy Chase and Potomac are pretty. But so are Old Town, Belle Haven, Mount Vernon by the water, McLean, Del Ray, Falls Church, etc.

As a whole the two areas are on equal footing aesthetically and any other claim here is made in bad faith.

You keep insisting that those who disagree with you are acting in "bad faith." This is an extremely poor debating technique because it signals that you don't want to have a real debate on the merits and instead want to just focus on motives.

Lots of people choose MoCo because they believe it is prettier (including me), and if you don't see that, it's fine -- you just have a different opinion. And if you think Gaithersburg, Rockville, and SS only have strip malls, then that just reveals that you haven't visited those areas -- including downtown Silver Spring, Rockville Town Square, Pike & Rose, Kentlands, Downtown Crown, and the Rio. We get it, you prefer Nova. But if you want to opine about MoCo, please make sure it's factual.

Trying to change the subject is acting in bad faith.

Reminder of the topic: Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America ...
Now it’s ranked 20th... What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

Well, one huge factor is the growth of military contractors in Virginia. Take out that one —huge, significant— piece and everything changes. As far as comparisons go, MoCo doesn’t have anything like Old Town , but Montgomery County also peaked earlier with factors that matter to me — like racially integrated neighborhoods and schools. I’ve been living here long enough to appreciate that. I also don’t see it as a competition. There are similarities and there are differences. Pick the best fit.

I'm also from moco and also don't see it as a competition. We all gain more from cooperation. For example we need an outerloop, or at least a connection across the Potomac further north. I think they should do a tunnel that connect rt 28 in MD to rt 28 in VA. We need a train out to BWI. And we need tax incentives for sci/tech. I don't think moco works as a bedroom community due to the geography of the Potomac river.

Huh? MARC and Amtrak both have BWI stops. Are you thinking Metro? A Virginia commuter train? Something else?

How would you suggest using MARC or Amtrak to get to BWI from MoCo?

NP. Red line to Union station, then Amtrak or Marc.

So not a real option for people in Montgomery County at all.

Huh? The red line is accessible for most of the county. It is very easy to take the metro frrm Bethesda, Rockville, etc to Union then a qucik amtrak right to the airport?

That takes too long. Your route is competing with the silver line or the Dulles toll road from Rosslyn, Tysons, and Reston. You seem to think people’s time is free. That might be true at a nonprofit or the government but it’s not true at businesses.

NP. BWI is easily accessible by car and there are train options. Never had a problem with it. No one complains about BWI. Easy airport like DCA. Everyone complains about Dulles. Dulles loves wasting people’s time on god awful people movers.

From home I can get to Dulles and National faster than BWI and neither is particularly close. From work I can leave the office and be at my gate within an hour. Can’t do that with BWI. That’s the convenience that businesses need. BWI is fine for leisure travel but that’s about it.

+1. I also think parking at Dulles is easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Went from center-left to far left. Totally fked.

+1

[Anonymous]

So to the chat bot poster- was the prompt this?

Should I become a slum landlord in Moco?

Even with invention of chatbots there isn’t a right way to do the wrong thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess people on this board don't care about health care and life sciences jobs?

https://governor.maryland.gov/news/press/pages/Governor-Moore-and-AstraZeneca-Announce-$2-Billion-Investment-to-Expand-Manufacturing-in-Maryland,-Supporting-2,600-Jobs.aspx

Meanwhile, Amazon is laying off people constantly and hasn't followed through on its promises to Arlington.

LOL! I read the press release and this $2 billion investment is just creating 300 permanent jobs. The rest of the work will be done by robots probably. Pathetic.

You can’t lay off jobs that were never created.

In contrast, Amazon will probably exit Arlington entirely in 10 years, after it decides it no longer needs to have any workers here.

Arlington was a lot nicer than Montgomery County before Amazon. It had, and still has, the largest percentage of residents with graduate degrees in the entire country. It had so much tax revenue coming in pre Amazon it was building million dollar bus stops on Columbia Pike and renovated its high schools to look like college campuses. Montgomery County is getting sued because there’s black mold in their schools.

You don’t want to get in a tit for tat battle between Arlington and Montgomery County. Stick to pretending that places like Montgomery Village, Germantown, and Gaithersburg don’t exist and attacking Fairfax’s suburban sprawl and data centers as if it’s any more unsightly than driving up Georgia Avenue or Rockville Pike.

Which Arlington? Arlington is ugly as hell. The whole NoVa is fugly.

Posts like this are in bad faith, and so tiring.

Look, I’m a DC guy living in Logan Circle, so I don’t really have skin in the game here in terms of MoCo vs NoVa. The legacy areas of MoCo that are beautiful are exactly that — very beautiful. I’m talking Chevy Chase, Kenwood, Bethesda, the ritzy parts of Potomac, Kensington, and a few others. Many of these are nicer aesthetically than the nicest that NoVa has to offer. But the key word is “legacy” — these areas are what they are as a product of a different time when MoCo was the king of the area. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, MoCo was the place, and NoVa was its podunk cousin, with a few nice areas to be sure, but MoCo was king.

That being said, this topic isn’t about that. It’s about now, and the structural truth is that NoVa has surged way past MoCo as a whole in terms of jobs, wealth, and development over the past 20 years. And no amount of snide posting that NoVa is “ugly” will change that fact.

NoVa may have surpassed MoCo in terms of jobs, but it's still ugly.
Having a bunch of development, structures and concrete, doesn't make an area aesthetically pleasing, au contraire.

I would argue that as a whole, there’s really no difference in beauty between MoCo and NoVa. Are you really going to argue with a straight face that Gaithersburg, Rockville, much of Silver Spring aren’t ugly and essentially just strip mall after strip mall? Sure, Takoma Park, Bethesda and Chevy Chase and Potomac are pretty. But so are Old Town, Belle Haven, Mount Vernon by the water, McLean, Del Ray, Falls Church, etc.

As a whole the two areas are on equal footing aesthetically and any other claim here is made in bad faith.

You keep insisting that those who disagree with you are acting in "bad faith." This is an extremely poor debating technique because it signals that you don't want to have a real debate on the merits and instead want to just focus on motives.

Lots of people choose MoCo because they believe it is prettier (including me), and if you don't see that, it's fine -- you just have a different opinion. And if you think Gaithersburg, Rockville, and SS only have strip malls, then that just reveals that you haven't visited those areas -- including downtown Silver Spring, Rockville Town Square, Pike & Rose, Kentlands, Downtown Crown, and the Rio. We get it, you prefer Nova. But if you want to opine about MoCo, please make sure it's factual.

Trying to change the subject is acting in bad faith.

Reminder of the topic: Montgomery County had the highest median family income out of any county in America ...
Now it’s ranked 20th... What has changed since the 1980s and can it change course?

Well, one huge factor is the growth of military contractors in Virginia. Take out that one —huge, significant— piece and everything changes. As far as comparisons go, MoCo doesn’t have anything like Old Town , but Montgomery County also peaked earlier with factors that matter to me — like racially integrated neighborhoods and schools. I’ve been living here long enough to appreciate that. I also don’t see it as a competition. There are similarities and there are differences. Pick the best fit.

I'm also from moco and also don't see it as a competition. We all gain more from cooperation. For example we need an outerloop, or at least a connection across the Potomac further north. I think they should do a tunnel that connect rt 28 in MD to rt 28 in VA. We need a train out to BWI. And we need tax incentives for sci/tech. I don't think moco works as a bedroom community due to the geography of the Potomac river.

Huh? MARC and Amtrak both have BWI stops. Are you thinking Metro? A Virginia commuter train? Something else?

How would you suggest using MARC or Amtrak to get to BWI from MoCo?

NP. Red line to Union station, then Amtrak or Marc.

So not a real option for people in Montgomery County at all.

Huh? The red line is accessible for most of the county. It is very easy to take the metro frrm Bethesda, Rockville, etc to Union then a qucik amtrak right to the airport?

Oh yeah, really easy and quick.

How easy is it to get on the Metro from Centreville or Reston to National Airport? You have to transfer there too. Maryland isn’t going to be entrusted with any matching federal funds anytime soon for a large scale train project to BWI after the Purple Line came in $2 billion over budget and has been delayed for at least 5 years. You wouldn’t finance a clown show like that with your own money either.

Why would someone from Centreville or Reston go to National? Dulles is much closer.