All these days off...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

Yes I would prefer a teacher work the same workweek as my child's parents. If in that time he or she cannot get to know my child, or provide support snd feedback, then I hope they seek another profession. It’s already been posted elsewhere that data shows worse academic outcomes with a four day week— the teachers time management is not more important to me than my child's educational outcomes.

You’re missing an important point: a teacher’s job can’t be done in 40 hours. For some grades/subjects, it can’t be done in 60.

Your child’s educational outcomes are ABSOLUTELY impacted by your teacher’s ability to get it all done. It’s no use pretending otherwise.

You may not CARE about the teacher’s work/life balance and job satisfaction, but it still impacts the children in that classroom.

That’s simply the way it is, whether you accept it or not.

I’m not missing it— the reality is most professional 5 day/ week jobs aren’t 40 hours. Most professionals take work home. Ask the non-teachers how many hours per week they put in.

If you have data that shows better educational outcomes for a four day week, share that data. Surely those well-rested teachers are killing it and it shows in the test scores right? Because the only poster who came with data said the scores for 4days are worse, not better.

But MOST professions don’t require more than 40 hours a week, and definitely not 50-60+ for 10 months at a time every year.

Please list 5 professions that require 60 hours a week for a salary under 75k a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

And that’s fine.

I choose to acknowledge problems instead of ignore them. So call it what you will, but I’m going to stick to my argument: teachers are burning out from the hours and it impacts student learning.

So you can scream for more blood from stone. You can say that people won’t think highly of teachers unless we can deliver miracles with few resources and no time.

I’m a realist and I know it won’t happen. We can accept the reality of teaching so we can start fixing it. Or we can continue to abuse teachers and hope that enough martyrs sacrifice “for the kids.” One direction will work and the other won’t. Okay.

Then bring the data that shows less classroom time correlates to better outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

Yes I would prefer a teacher work the same workweek as my child's parents. If in that time he or she cannot get to know my child, or provide support snd feedback, then I hope they seek another profession. It’s already been posted elsewhere that data shows worse academic outcomes with a four day week— the teachers time management is not more important to me than my child's educational outcomes.

You’re missing an important point: a teacher’s job can’t be done in 40 hours. For some grades/subjects, it can’t be done in 60.

Your child’s educational outcomes are ABSOLUTELY impacted by your teacher’s ability to get it all done. It’s no use pretending otherwise.

You may not CARE about the teacher’s work/life balance and job satisfaction, but it still impacts the children in that classroom.

That’s simply the way it is, whether you accept it or not.

I’m not missing it— the reality is most professional 5 day/ week jobs aren’t 40 hours. Most professionals take work home. Ask the non-teachers how many hours per week they put in.

If you have data that shows better educational outcomes for a four day week, share that data. Surely those well-rested teachers are killing it and it shows in the test scores right? Because the only poster who came with data said the scores for 4days are worse, not better.

But MOST professions don’t require more than 40 hours a week, and definitely not 50-60+ for 10 months at a time every year.

Please list 5 professions that require 60 hours a week for a salary under 75k a year.

The military, nurses aides especially
in emergency medicine, medical residents, social workers, first year accountants, and many non-firm lawyers especially those in public interest work.

And like teachers most will eventually make more than $75,000 but its starting salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

And that’s fine.

I choose to acknowledge problems instead of ignore them. So call it what you will, but I’m going to stick to my argument: teachers are burning out from the hours and it impacts student learning.

So you can scream for more blood from stone. You can say that people won’t think highly of teachers unless we can deliver miracles with few resources and no time.

I’m a realist and I know it won’t happen. We can accept the reality of teaching so we can start fixing it. Or we can continue to abuse teachers and hope that enough martyrs sacrifice “for the kids.” One direction will work and the other won’t. Okay.

Then bring the data that shows less classroom time correlates to better outcomes.

It’s an easy google search that I conducted myself about 2 pages ago. Simply put: the data is mixed.

But that was never the point of this thread anyway. FCPS isn’t going to a 4 day week, so why moan about it? The topic was the days off in the calendar which (incidentally) still add up to the required amount of in-school days. Students aren’t losing instruction; they may be losing routine, but not instruction. So let’s not create problems for the sake of being argumentative.

This all began because a teacher said the “days off” provide a chance to plan and grade, and a few posters got angry. That’s all this is. A few posters felt that planning and grading shouldn’t come at the expense of their children’s time in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

And a teacher with a masters degree in Fairfax, which those jobs also require, can make well over $100k with time in, and working 195 days. At the entry level doctors make $70k year as residents.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/fy26-teacher-195-day.pdf

[Anonymous]

The calendar isn't changing, so go ahead and find childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

And a teacher with a masters degree in Fairfax, which those jobs also require, can make well over $100k with time in, and working 195 days. At the entry level doctors make $70k year as residents.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/fy26-teacher-195-day.pdf

At step 17? Do you know what that translates to in years when steps are consistently frozen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

And that’s fine.

I choose to acknowledge problems instead of ignore them. So call it what you will, but I’m going to stick to my argument: teachers are burning out from the hours and it impacts student learning.

So you can scream for more blood from stone. You can say that people won’t think highly of teachers unless we can deliver miracles with few resources and no time.

I’m a realist and I know it won’t happen. We can accept the reality of teaching so we can start fixing it. Or we can continue to abuse teachers and hope that enough martyrs sacrifice “for the kids.” One direction will work and the other won’t. Okay.

Then bring the data that shows less classroom time correlates to better outcomes.

It’s an easy google search that I conducted myself about 2 pages ago. Simply put: the data is mixed.

But that was never the point of this thread anyway. FCPS isn’t going to a 4 day week, so why moan about it? The topic was the days off in the calendar which (incidentally) still add up to the required amount of in-school days. Students aren’t losing instruction; they may be losing routine, but not instruction. So let’s not create problems for the sake of being argumentative.

This all began because a teacher said the “days off” provide a chance to plan and grade, and a few posters got angry. That’s all this is. A few posters felt that planning and grading shouldn’t come at the expense of their children’s time in school.

The data you posted wasn't “mixed”. It said four day school weeks correspond to lower scores.

Fairfax isn’t at an official four day schedule but five day weeks are rare.

[Anonymous]

The reason many districts closes for the Jewish holidays, even if the Jewish student population is minimal is that it is too expensive to get subs for all the teachers who would be out those days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

And that’s fine.

I choose to acknowledge problems instead of ignore them. So call it what you will, but I’m going to stick to my argument: teachers are burning out from the hours and it impacts student learning.

So you can scream for more blood from stone. You can say that people won’t think highly of teachers unless we can deliver miracles with few resources and no time.

I’m a realist and I know it won’t happen. We can accept the reality of teaching so we can start fixing it. Or we can continue to abuse teachers and hope that enough martyrs sacrifice “for the kids.” One direction will work and the other won’t. Okay.

Then bring the data that shows less classroom time correlates to better outcomes.

It’s an easy google search that I conducted myself about 2 pages ago. Simply put: the data is mixed.

But that was never the point of this thread anyway. FCPS isn’t going to a 4 day week, so why moan about it? The topic was the days off in the calendar which (incidentally) still add up to the required amount of in-school days. Students aren’t losing instruction; they may be losing routine, but not instruction. So let’s not create problems for the sake of being argumentative.

This all began because a teacher said the “days off” provide a chance to plan and grade, and a few posters got angry. That’s all this is. A few posters felt that planning and grading shouldn’t come at the expense of their children’s time in school.

I don’t even believe that is truly even affects their routine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

Most of those jobs make considerably more than teachers. My sister is an accountant and makes more than 100k and my spouse is a nurse and also makes close 100k, same with brother in the military. I won’t go into doctors and lawyers….I’ll give you social workers because they only make slightly more than teachers.

And a teacher with a masters degree in Fairfax, which those jobs also require, can make well over $100k with time in, and working 195 days. At the entry level doctors make $70k year as residents.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/fy26-teacher-195-day.pdf

Cute. You compare an experienced teacher with 17 years in to an entry-level doctor. A first year teacher with a masters makes $69K. With a bachelors, $64K.

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Anonymous wrote:I think schools should actually look at peer- reviewed research and data on what schedules promote (get ready!) the best learning.

Young kids need consistency, repetition and routine. They do not need a different schedule every week between early release and a billion holidays. I don’t know what makes the most pedagogical sense at the middle and high school levels but I bet the data exists.

Be guided by the idea that the job of the school is to educate children, and then set the schedule from there, while sharing the data with parents so you can start rebuilding the trust thats been lost by lying in 2024 about why the schedule “needed” to change.

Agreed and this is what all the "school isn't childcare" people are missing. School isn't able to effectively teach with 4 day weeks.

Both PP's are right!

I was just getting ready to comment about what is the best for education of the children.

I was a teacher. While, as a teacher, I really enjoyed the occasional workday or snow day, that does not translate to great education.

Kids thrive on routine. We all do. It's fine to have deviations from time to time, but we all like to know what to expect.
Repetition is also important. Teaching a concept and repeating the instruction the next day is helpful.

Can we go back and think about what is best for the education of our children?

It is not four day weeks. And, it is certainly not early release Wednesdays.
It is also not having elementary school students in school at 4:30 or later.
It is not a county wide boundary study leaving neighborhoods upset and worried. If there needs to be a boundary adjustment because of extreme overcrowding, then do it ad hoc.
It is not lockstep homework policies.
It is not following a strict script when teaching.
It is not turning down federal funds in order to support a social experiment.

Go back to the basics and teach the kids.

Your response is a bit simplistic.

There’s a lot a school needs to consider when we say what’s best for students. Right now, we are in a climate in which teachers are crashing and burning. Teacher retention and job satisfaction absolutely has an impact on students. (Notice you say you used to teach. Each year, more people “used” to teach.) A teacher strapped for time can’t curate a lesson to meet the needs of students. A strong, rested teacher can do more in 4 days than a stressed, flailing teacher can do in 5.

And yes, repetition is important. But so is targeted, thoughtful, purposeful instruction. That’s what we don’t have time to produce right now. In a perfect world, 5 days is ideal. We aren’t in a perfect world.

(And I don’t think I “enjoy” days off. They are simply work days with pajamas on.)

Do schools exist to serve teachers, or students? Because your argument boils down to encouraging worse student outcomes because of teacher fatigue.

If you can’t see the correlation between teacher preparation/productivity/morale and student outcome, I don’t know how to help you.

I’d rather have own children in a classroom with a properly supported teacher who has been given time to prepare lessons based on my child’s interests and needs. I want a teacher who has been granted time to get to know my child. I want that teacher to provide my child with support and feedback.

If you are content with a teacher who is burned out from working 70 frantic hours a week, then that’s your prerogative. That’s a teacher who will be using canned lessons, minimal feedback, and will be in survival mode.

70 hours! Lol

Yes, 70 hours. That’s what I routinely put into this job. I work 2-4 extra hours every evening and 10-15 each weekend.

I’m not lying. That’s what many of us do. When you have over 150 students, it takes a long time to answer emails, provide feedback, accommodate various learning needs, update data, etc. None of it can get done during the work day, so it becomes our evenings and weekends.

So LOL if you must. It simply shows you’re unaware of a teacher’s responsibilities.

Given that a school day is 7 hours a day, if you’re putting in 35 hours a week outside of that, I’m sorry but you’re doing it wrong

Please tell me how to do my job. I’m sure you know it better than I do.

150 essays at 15 minutes an essay: 37.5 sustained hours of grading. I get 40 minutes a day at work to grade. That means that I have to make up about 33 hours somewhere. Oh, and I also have to plan lessons, comment on OTHER assignments, attend meetings, respond to emails, write recommendation letters, etc. I can do very little of that during my work week.

So yes, 70 hours.

I don’t go to your job and tell you that you’re doing it wrong. I wouldn’t do that because I’m ignorant about what you do and how long it takes. Please provide me with the same professional respect.

I’m not who you quoted and I am sure there are weeks you work 70 or more hours. What I don’t think you realize is your students parents do too. And then they get to work to make up for disrupted instruction and juggle for childcare so you can be “well rested”. You are, perhaps inadvertently, portraying teachers as very entitled and out of touch.

No, I’m not buying it.

Teachers are also parents. I have a child in a different school, and I also have to find childcare on these days since I’m working. I simply am not going to complain because I intimately know what her teachers are experiencing.

And I’m not asking to be “well rested.” Never have, never will. I’m only well rested during my unpaid summer, and I accept that.

And if you work 70 hours, then I sympathize with you. I’m not going to tell you to suck it up like I am often told. You shouldn’t have to work a job that requires so many of your off hours.

You don’t need to buy it— this is what your students parents think when they read this about days off to “plan” and “get to know your child”.

They think you have never been a healthcare provider, you have never been in the military, you have never been an accountant or a lawyer or a social worker. All of those careers and many more routinely demand 70+ hours, in a five day work week.

And then they come home and find out their kid spent a half day on a laptop because of early release so you could plan.

They re-teach the critical reading skills that can only be acquired through repetition since you needed a day off. To plan.

You are not making a good case for people to think highly of teachers.

And that’s fine.

I choose to acknowledge problems instead of ignore them. So call it what you will, but I’m going to stick to my argument: teachers are burning out from the hours and it impacts student learning.

So you can scream for more blood from stone. You can say that people won’t think highly of teachers unless we can deliver miracles with few resources and no time.

I’m a realist and I know it won’t happen. We can accept the reality of teaching so we can start fixing it. Or we can continue to abuse teachers and hope that enough martyrs sacrifice “for the kids.” One direction will work and the other won’t. Okay.

Then bring the data that shows less classroom time correlates to better outcomes.

It’s an easy google search that I conducted myself about 2 pages ago. Simply put: the data is mixed.

But that was never the point of this thread anyway. FCPS isn’t going to a 4 day week, so why moan about it? The topic was the days off in the calendar which (incidentally) still add up to the required amount of in-school days. Students aren’t losing instruction; they may be losing routine, but not instruction. So let’s not create problems for the sake of being argumentative.

This all began because a teacher said the “days off” provide a chance to plan and grade, and a few posters got angry. That’s all this is. A few posters felt that planning and grading shouldn’t come at the expense of their children’s time in school.

The data you posted wasn't “mixed”. It said four day school weeks correspond to lower scores.

Fairfax isn’t at an official four day schedule but five day weeks are rare.

I didn’t post any data.

[Anonymous]

New poster - I can't get over the "70 hours" comment. There is 0 way you on average spend 70 hours throughout the school year and if you do, well you need to find a better way to do your job. One random "70 hour" week maybe? but probably very inflated. Might have gotten away with 55-60, but come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster - I can't get over the "70 hours" comment. There is 0 way you on average spend 70 hours throughout the school year and if you do, well you need to find a better way to do your job. One random "70 hour" week maybe? but probably very inflated. Might have gotten away with 55-60, but come on.

It’s been explained multiple times, what don’t you understand?