Five weeks in. RTO is literally killing me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

When one orange boomer and his minions move on, you mean.

I work for a fortune 150 and we went back 4 days before he got reelected. But I give you that the feds did not.

Some feds never stopped going to the office. Some feds have been hybrid forever. So many agencies and so many differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

When one orange boomer and his minions move on, you mean.

I work for a fortune 150 and we went back 4 days before he got reelected. But I give you that the feds did not.

everyone I know that is "in office" has a ton of flexibility around it -- they go in for maybe 4 hours and then telework the others. Also, 4 =/= 5.

Completely not true at my company (pp above). Everyone is here all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

It's not so much that most of us like it, but we are honest enough to recognize it has benefits. Hybrid approach is probably most beneficial for all.

Employees are capable of deciding what is most beneficial. You’re either doing the work or not. HOW it gets done should not be an issue so long as production and quality are good and you’re available when needed. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IF folks think they do their jobs 100% remote, then why do we need to keep jobs in US? I'm sur companies can get cheaper and smarter labor overseas. Especially Asian countries.

I mean, I'm a lawyer who works remotely part time. People overseas don't have law degrees. My Dad does telehealth visits with patients sometimes, does that mean you'd want an overseas doctor? They don't have medical licenses.

That argument is absurd.

We use military insurance. They rarely see patients in person. Bulk is phone calls. Foreign is fine if they are better doctors.

Kaiser Permanente here- same. It does make it easy to get referrals though! I even had an orthopedic surgeon looking over xrays on zoom the other day.

No, because I still wait 3-9 months for specialists appointments even for a 5 minute phone call. It’s taking me years to get diagnosed because I can only get follow ups every 3-6 months. I often cannot see the same doctor twice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

It's not so much that most of us like it, but we are honest enough to recognize it has benefits. Hybrid approach is probably most beneficial for all.

Employees are capable of deciding what is most beneficial. You’re either doing the work or not. HOW it gets done should not be an issue so long as production and quality are good and you’re available when needed. Period.

Are you not aware that you can start and run your own company any way you like? However, you work for a company that makes decisions for its employees, which includes you. If you do not like those decisions, you are free to find a different job with similar values/flexibility/culture, or you can stay and realize that you have management to answer to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

When one orange boomer and his minions move on, you mean.

I work for a fortune 150 and we went back 4 days before he got reelected. But I give you that the feds did not.

everyone I know that is "in office" has a ton of flexibility around it -- they go in for maybe 4 hours and then telework the others. Also, 4 =/= 5.

Completely not true at my company (pp above). Everyone is here all day.

That's fine but it's not the norm in the private sector for a lot of jobs that are analogous to fed roles. Like to compare to fed attorneys, most in-house counsel and law firms are hybrid. And for days in office the hours are based on meetings and workload not set in stone. (Plus higher pay)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

When one orange boomer and his minions move on, you mean.

I work for a fortune 150 and we went back 4 days before he got reelected. But I give you that the feds did not.

everyone I know that is "in office" has a ton of flexibility around it -- they go in for maybe 4 hours and then telework the others. Also, 4 =/= 5.

Completely not true at my company (pp above). Everyone is here all day.

That's fine but it's not the norm in the private sector for a lot of jobs that are analogous to fed roles. Like to compare to fed attorneys, most in-house counsel and law firms are hybrid. And for days in office the hours are based on meetings and workload not set in stone. (Plus higher pay)

OK so go work at one of those if you know that's the case and if they'll hire you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The traffic; the schedule; the hardship on my family (my kids!!). This is just awful.

How can trump do this to us?? I mean, just WHY??!?

Lucky to have a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IF folks think they do their jobs 100% remote, then why do we need to keep jobs in US? I'm sur companies can get cheaper and smarter labor overseas. Especially Asian countries.

I mean, I'm a lawyer who works remotely part time. People overseas don't have law degrees. My Dad does telehealth visits with patients sometimes, does that mean you'd want an overseas doctor? They don't have medical licenses.

That argument is absurd.

We use military insurance. They rarely see patients in person. Bulk is phone calls. Foreign is fine if they are better doctors.

Kaiser Permanente here- same. It does make it easy to get referrals though! I even had an orthopedic surgeon looking over xrays on zoom the other day.

No, because I still wait 3-9 months for specialists appointments even for a 5 minute phone call. It’s taking me years to get diagnosed because I can only get follow ups every 3-6 months. I often cannot see the same doctor twice.

What type of specialists are booked that far out? Mental health?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

It's not so much that most of us like it, but we are honest enough to recognize it has benefits. Hybrid approach is probably most beneficial for all.

Maybe to your job requires team collaboration, but our office is mainly individual contributor type work. I will admit it's nice to catch up on non related work gossip and happenings, but that is not a necessary function.

It’s not a simple as this. What many people who wfh refuse to acknowledge is that one usually isn’t as productive working at home. I know many people, feds and private sector alike, who would go to the gym, grocery shop, get a haircut, etc in the middle of the work day (and not work later to make up the time).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

When one orange boomer and his minions move on, you mean.

I work for a fortune 150 and we went back 4 days before he got reelected. But I give you that the feds did not.

everyone I know that is "in office" has a ton of flexibility around it -- they go in for maybe 4 hours and then telework the others. Also, 4 =/= 5.

Completely not true at my company (pp above). Everyone is here all day.

That's fine but it's not the norm in the private sector for a lot of jobs that are analogous to fed roles. Like to compare to fed attorneys, most in-house counsel and law firms are hybrid. And for days in office the hours are based on meetings and workload not set in stone. (Plus higher pay)

OK so go work at one of those if you know that's the case and if they'll hire you.

yes, thousands of people are doing that. But it is still worthwhile to correct misinformation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

When one orange boomer and his minions move on, you mean.

I work for a fortune 150 and we went back 4 days before he got reelected. But I give you that the feds did not.

everyone I know that is "in office" has a ton of flexibility around it -- they go in for maybe 4 hours and then telework the others. Also, 4 =/= 5.

Completely not true at my company (pp above). Everyone is here all day.

That's fine but it's not the norm in the private sector for a lot of jobs that are analogous to fed roles. Like to compare to fed attorneys, most in-house counsel and law firms are hybrid. And for days in office the hours are based on meetings and workload not set in stone. (Plus higher pay)

OK so go work at one of those if you know that's the case and if they'll hire you.

yes, thousands of people are doing that. But it is still worthwhile to correct misinformation.

How is it misinformation when the company o work for is doing it? We all work full days. I’m sorry that’s bad for your agenda but it’s very much true.

[Anonymous]

My husband feels the same way you do. I never had the luxury of working from home, but I absolutely despise it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What did you do pre 2020? People commuted to the office every day. Kids went to daycare. Parents came home, made dinner, helped with homework. It’s life.

She probably didn’t enjoy it then either, but once you’ve been away from it for a while you have the perspective of knowing how much more enjoyable life is when you don’t have to deal with all the crap of working in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who insist on terminating TW are usually old men, people without children, or those who never did much childrearing. This generation of parents actually wants to spend time with their kids, we want to be able to cook a home cook meal several times a week, and see them after work for more than an hour, we don't want to be shitty/absent parents. TW simply gives us two hours of our lives back (at least!), time we can dedicate to our families and not commuting.

We are the generation that deeply understands why birthrates are going down. A society that refuses to support parents is doomed, young people will look at us and say "hard pass".

This has been definitely true for DH's office. The retiring Boomers seem to be the last generation hardcore into in-office work. Xers on down, not so much.

I can’t think of anyone in my office of any age who likes full time RTO.

Before 2025, my office had the option to work in the office or fully remote. Only around 10% chose to come into the office and of those, they were older and/or didn't have children at home. Due to such a dramatic difference, I can't imagine that RTO is dead forever. It will gradually come back when the boomers move on, though that could take another decade.

It's not so much that most of us like it, but we are honest enough to recognize it has benefits. Hybrid approach is probably most beneficial for all.

Maybe to your job requires team collaboration, but our office is mainly individual contributor type work. I will admit it's nice to catch up on non related work gossip and happenings, but that is not a necessary function.

It’s not a simple as this. What many people who wfh refuse to acknowledge is that one usually isn’t as productive working at home. I know many people, feds and private sector alike, who would go to the gym, grocery shop, get a haircut, etc in the middle of the work day (and not work later to make up the time).

What many RTO advocates refuse to acknowledge is that some offices have been keeping meticulous productivity metrics the entire time. Why is it necessary to recall those people back to the office when there is already hard evidence of satisfactory performance while WFH?