Youth sports and over scheduling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I can't imagine starting organized baseball, soccer, or hockey until 11 or 12. If a child waited until then, they would have zero chance of playing any of those sports in our high school sports.

IDK. our kids didn't do a single team sport until 5th grade. DD's first soccer game, ever, she scored the first goal of the game. No travel teams. All kids went on to be on more than one FCPS varsity HS team.

They are natural athletes. Those kind of kids are going to quickly surpass the ones who have been playing since 5 but don’t have the extra genetic kick. But fifth grade is still young. More than enough time to do well as a teen.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't really see kids these days having much different schedules then my friends and I had in the Midwest in the 80s. Year round swim team from a young age, plus several other sports depending on the season or age, an instrument, etc.

I'm in the Midwest and that is what people do today. Competitive swim or hockey/baseball, plus another sport or two each season. Some do an instrument, but nobody calls out families for overdoing sports. Only if the kid is taking an instrument or doing academic enrichment is he "over scheduled." Meanwhile I'm side eying the elementary kid who can't make half his practices due to his "main sport", and when he shows up to games and practices he's a tired mess.

DP, but I do find it interesting that this thread is in the sports forum, but the one study mentioned in the article is about everything kids do after school, including homework. It also found the effects strongest in high school, not younger. It feels like kind of the reverse of your situation (probably cultural in different regions), but I see a lot more overscheduling discourse here around the problems elementary schoolers in travel sports and not high schoolers with too much homework.

(I have neither a high schooler nor a kid in travel sports, so I'm not coming at this from either angle personally)

Kids at every age need and should have free time, they deserve it . I understand wanting to keep high school aged teens out if trouble, and some business is good, but overscheduling is never good.

I don't think I know a single competitive college bound high schooler who isn't overscheduled by those definitions.

You don't know a college bound high schooler who can't scrape together several hours of hangout time with friends every week? Really?

Not in this day in age anyway. When I was in HS yes, but weren't as busy or had as much homework. And I find it hard to believe that ppl haven't met overscheduled kids who were forced to do activities

I find it hard to believe that kids don't have free time. How much of that is because they're scrolling TikTok while they're supposed to be doing homework? When I was in HS it was just IM-ing other kids instead of doing our work, but same idea. I don't buy that kids have more homework now than they did decades ago, given the insane amount of griping about teachers giving less and less homework in the press and on here.

I don't understand parents wanting their kids to have a ton of homework either.

Because I want my kid to learn how to be successful. And part of life is doing work (even if homework seems mindless or redundant). Learning to do work and learning to manage one's schedule at a young age assists down the road. Further, without doing homework, how can you (and the school system) possible know if a student has mastered the material. I'm also not talking about hours and hours but the ten minute per grade up through 6th grade is a good gage of how much homework a child should have.

Homework does not equal success in life though. Adults don't have homework.

I don't find it unironic that the anti-homework crowd fails in reading and reading comprehension (they aren't the same thing). I said I want my kid to learn to be successful and part of that is doing work. I didn't write work would make you successful. I also set the parameters out that I thought equated to what level of homework I child should have - 10 minutes per grade level. And for you anti homeworkers out there, I'll provide an example, for a 1st grade that would mean 10 minutes, a second grader 20 minutes. That's basically a worksheet a night. That is not tons.

Adults have work. A prerequisite to being a successful adult is hard work. Working hard doesn't mean you will be successful but part of the equation that includes things like luck, intelligence, etc.

But, hey, if homework wasn't that important you wouldn't be protesting so much because your kids school doesn't give any.

So many kids do their homework in the car or on the floor of a dance school between classes or wherever they can find space while waiting for their practice to start. I always wonder about the quality of that work. They always seemed so rushed and distracted worrying about finishing it before they need to start practice.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

Maybe or they could thank me. For letting them be a kid as long as they can. For not overscheduling them. For letting make their own fun or be bored and not just assuming that they'll be trouble makers.

Why do people seem to think “being a kid” means doing nothing but hanging out for as long as possible?

Because you can't do that as an adult. Why is not doing sports doing nothing? Why is kids playing/hanging out with friends in an unorganized way doing nothing?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

I have one kid out of college and one in college and a middle schooler. I have seen lots and lots of families push their kids into music because thats what is expected in our culture now. My son tried violin in 4th and was pretty good at it but didn’t stick with it. My daughter tried it in 2nd grade and stuck with it all through school and college. The difference between them is I never ever needed to tell my daughter to practice her instrument. She loved it and spent a lot of time practicing it. But my son even though good at it didn’t want to do it and never practiced. So he stopped in 6th grade. Other friends whose kids were also not interested in their instruments were pushed to do it anyway all through high school and take lessons too. They were miserable and felt unhappy that they aren’t allowed to decide for themselves. Those kids didn’t progress and never played after middle and high school. Same stories about sports. Patents push their kids to do sports because other kids do it whether or not the kids is interested. I have seen many kids at basketball, soccer games who don’t want to be there. They aren’t into the game and honestly aren’t good either. But you ask the parent and they say ‘he loves it!’

That’s sad. My husband is athletic and his mother, grandfather and great grandfather were all professional musicians in orchestras. My husband played in a youth symphony orchestra but didn’t continue in adulthood. My ds showed talent and plays but my two dd show zero interest. We didn’t try and force it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

Maybe or they could thank me. For letting them be a kid as long as they can. For not overscheduling them. For letting make their own fun or be bored and not just assuming that they'll be trouble makers.

Why do people seem to think “being a kid” means doing nothing but hanging out for as long as possible?

Because you can't do that as an adult. Why is not doing sports doing nothing? Why is kids playing/hanging out with friends in an unorganized way doing nothing?

You absolutely can as an adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Payne, who also wrote the book Simplicity Parenting, argues that if you can hold off on organized sports until age 11 or 12, it allows your child “that whole learning window for creativity, resilience, negotiation, the things they learn during unstructured play.” Starting competitive sports early can interrupt the social-emotional learning development that comes from play, he explains, and they don’t even pay off the way most families think they will. “For children who start competitive sports before age 13, the dropout rate is 70 percent,” says Lancaster."

I can't imagine starting organized baseball, soccer, or hockey until 11 or 12. If a child waited until then, they would have zero chance of playing any of those sports in our high school sports.

That’s not true. Northern states dominate ice hockey because there are so many frozen lakes to play on for half the year. The lucky kids have a group of kids that go to the lake, shovels the snow and play hockey for hours. They don’t need it organized until 11 or 12.

All basketball takes is a ball and a hoop. Kids working on their muscle memory by shooting 200 baskets a day, playing with a couple of other kids at a local court or driveway. Maybe a rec team weekly. They can wait until 11 or 12 before going into organized sports.

Kids who are self driven who are working independently at a young age on their skills will easily transition into an organization at 11 or 12.

What's so special about 11 or 12 that they need organized? Why can't they just play with friends?

Developmentally they are ready for the next level. Also by then they know what sport they want to pursue and what sport they no longer want to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You weren’t taught sports in gym class? You didn’t have a local playground with equipment? Did you have any balls or even a jump rope? You did have the ability to run and use your body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Payne, who also wrote the book Simplicity Parenting, argues that if you can hold off on organized sports until age 11 or 12, it allows your child “that whole learning window for creativity, resilience, negotiation, the things they learn during unstructured play.” Starting competitive sports early can interrupt the social-emotional learning development that comes from play, he explains, and they don’t even pay off the way most families think they will. “For children who start competitive sports before age 13, the dropout rate is 70 percent,” says Lancaster."

I can't imagine starting organized baseball, soccer, or hockey until 11 or 12. If a child waited until then, they would have zero chance of playing any of those sports in our high school sports.

That’s not true. Northern states dominate ice hockey because there are so many frozen lakes to play on for half the year. The lucky kids have a group of kids that go to the lake, shovels the snow and play hockey for hours. They don’t need it organized until 11 or 12.

All basketball takes is a ball and a hoop. Kids working on their muscle memory by shooting 200 baskets a day, playing with a couple of other kids at a local court or driveway. Maybe a rec team weekly. They can wait until 11 or 12 before going into organized sports.

Kids who are self driven who are working independently at a young age on their skills will easily transition into an organization at 11 or 12.

Kids in places with frozen ponds still absolutely start hockey before 11 or 12. Timbits is under seven.

They don’t have to is my point. A kid starting at 7 years old will not have an advantage over a kid who played locally until the age of 11 or 12. Hockey players don’t specialize until about 14 years old and then they start with training in Jr. hockey.

The majority of D1 players who are drafted to the NHL are from Michigan, Minnesota, Boston College, Boston University, North Dakota, Wisconsin.

Even with all the skating rinks all over the country it’s still the cold weather states who dominate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You weren’t taught sports in gym class? You didn’t have a local playground with equipment? Did you have any balls or even a jump rope? You did have the ability to run and use your body.

I literally don't/didn't have the use of my legs. And as I can I was still wheeling around outsude with friends playing and sports. I don't know why exercise is always equated with organized sports

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

Maybe or they could thank me. For letting them be a kid as long as they can. For not overscheduling them. For letting make their own fun or be bored and not just assuming that they'll be trouble makers.

Why do people seem to think “being a kid” means doing nothing but hanging out for as long as possible?

Because you can't do that as an adult. Why is not doing sports doing nothing? Why is kids playing/hanging out with friends in an unorganized way doing nothing?

What are you talking about? You’re presumably an adult and you obviously spend some time doing nothing but hanging out with your (anonymous internet) friends! Unless you think reading/posting on this board is actually doing “something”?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

Maybe or they could thank me. For letting them be a kid as long as they can. For not overscheduling them. For letting make their own fun or be bored and not just assuming that they'll be trouble makers.

Why do people seem to think “being a kid” means doing nothing but hanging out for as long as possible?

Because you can't do that as an adult. Why is not doing sports doing nothing? Why is kids playing/hanging out with friends in an unorganized way doing nothing?

What are you talking about? You’re presumably an adult and you obviously spend some time doing nothing but hanging out with your (anonymous internet) friends! Unless you think reading/posting on this board is actually doing “something”?!

Adults don't have as much freedom as they say you do. And me posting on here is only snipits of my life. You didn't answer my question though, why is not doing sports or activities "doing nothing?" Why is unorganized play or hanging out fir kids "doing nothing?" Do you really think that it has no value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

Maybe or they could thank me. For letting them be a kid as long as they can. For not overscheduling them. For letting make their own fun or be bored and not just assuming that they'll be trouble makers.

Why do people seem to think “being a kid” means doing nothing but hanging out for as long as possible?

Because you can't do that as an adult. Why is not doing sports doing nothing? Why is kids playing/hanging out with friends in an unorganized way doing nothing?

Adults DO hang out doing nothing, just as kids can even when they have some sports and activities mixed in. I don’t know any kids without free time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

Maybe or they could thank me. For letting them be a kid as long as they can. For not overscheduling them. For letting make their own fun or be bored and not just assuming that they'll be trouble makers.

Why do people seem to think “being a kid” means doing nothing but hanging out for as long as possible?

Because you can't do that as an adult. Why is not doing sports doing nothing? Why is kids playing/hanging out with friends in an unorganized way doing nothing?

What are you talking about? You’re presumably an adult and you obviously spend some time doing nothing but hanging out with your (anonymous internet) friends! Unless you think reading/posting on this board is actually doing “something”?!

Adults don't have as much freedom as they say you do. And me posting on here is only snipits of my life. You didn't answer my question though, why is not doing sports or activities "doing nothing?" Why is unorganized play or hanging out fir kids "doing nothing?" Do you really think that it has no value.

Because reasonably intelligent adults understand that the phrase “doing nothing” doesn’t literally mean sitting and staring into space (think Puddy from Seinfeld). Sitting around just hanging out with friends is “doing nothing” unless and until you are doing something.

No one is arguing that times of doing nothing has no value. But you’re strangely digging your heels into the idea that doing nothing is the same as doing something, and obviously it’s not.

If you don’t want your kids in organized sports, just don’t put your kids in organized sports. See how easy that is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

Maybe or they could thank me. For letting them be a kid as long as they can. For not overscheduling them. For letting make their own fun or be bored and not just assuming that they'll be trouble makers.

Why do people seem to think “being a kid” means doing nothing but hanging out for as long as possible?

Because you can't do that as an adult. Why is not doing sports doing nothing? Why is kids playing/hanging out with friends in an unorganized way doing nothing?

What are you talking about? You’re presumably an adult and you obviously spend some time doing nothing but hanging out with your (anonymous internet) friends! Unless you think reading/posting on this board is actually doing “something”?!

Adults don't have as much freedom as they say you do. And me posting on here is only snipits of my life. You didn't answer my question though, why is not doing sports or activities "doing nothing?" Why is unorganized play or hanging out fir kids "doing nothing?" Do you really think that it has no value.

Because reasonably intelligent adults understand that the phrase “doing nothing” doesn’t literally mean sitting and staring into space (think Puddy from Seinfeld). Sitting around just hanging out with friends is “doing nothing” unless and until you are doing something.

No one is arguing that times of doing nothing has no value. But you’re strangely digging your heels into the idea that doing nothing is the same as doing something, and obviously it’s not.

If you don’t want your kids in organized sports, just don’t put your kids in organized sports. See how easy that is?

What is doing nothing to you then? Why is free play/hang out time nothing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think overscheduling is a hot button for me because I want to give at least a little bit of the old school childhood that I had.

And you can do that. I had a childhood with no activities, and I grew up totally unathletic, unable to play an instrument, and with no real skills other than school. I'm trying to give me kid something different.

You're assuming that kids need to be athletic and musical.

You’re also assuming kids don’t need that at all. I guess you will never know if there was a hidden talent there. Maybe your kid will think you made a mistake bc it turns out they are nothing like you.

Maybe or they could thank me. For letting them be a kid as long as they can. For not overscheduling them. For letting make their own fun or be bored and not just assuming that they'll be trouble makers.

Why do people seem to think “being a kid” means doing nothing but hanging out for as long as possible?

Because you can't do that as an adult. Why is not doing sports doing nothing? Why is kids playing/hanging out with friends in an unorganized way doing nothing?

What are you talking about? You’re presumably an adult and you obviously spend some time doing nothing but hanging out with your (anonymous internet) friends! Unless you think reading/posting on this board is actually doing “something”?!

Adults don't have as much freedom as they say you do. And me posting on here is only snipits of my life. You didn't answer my question though, why is not doing sports or activities "doing nothing?" Why is unorganized play or hanging out fir kids "doing nothing?" Do you really think that it has no value.

Because reasonably intelligent adults understand that the phrase “doing nothing” doesn’t literally mean sitting and staring into space (think Puddy from Seinfeld). Sitting around just hanging out with friends is “doing nothing” unless and until you are doing something.

No one is arguing that times of doing nothing has no value. But you’re strangely digging your heels into the idea that doing nothing is the same as doing something, and obviously it’s not.

If you don’t want your kids in organized sports, just don’t put your kids in organized sports. See how easy that is?

What is doing nothing to you then? Why is free play/hang out time nothing?

No answer huh?