Equitable access to advanced math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

By that logic they should all stick to 8th grade algebra.

Loudoun has its 6th graders doing well in algebra, and they could probably let in more as they added more restrictions lately. Fairfax is a larger population, so it would be fine with double the numbers.
Also, math in Loudoun elementary is not accelerated. There is no AAP or Level 4 or whatever else Fairfax is doing. The students are likely better able to accelerate in Fairfax, except for the logistics of 6th grade in elementary.
7th grade algebra is also in some schools, half the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

It's not about college apps. It's about the correct placement for each child, so the child is neither overwhelmed nor bored.

Oh please. 6th graders aren't bored in pre-algebra. They are fine. This is about college applications and doing better than other kids, standing out.

How dare those children try to learn!
School is only for subjects children hate!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

By that logic they should all stick to 8th grade algebra.

Loudoun has its 6th graders doing well in algebra, and they could probably let in more as they added more restrictions lately. Fairfax is a larger population, so it would be fine with double the numbers.
Also, math in Loudoun elementary is not accelerated. There is no AAP or Level 4 or whatever else Fairfax is doing. The students are likely better able to accelerate in Fairfax, except for the logistics of 6th grade in elementary.
7th grade algebra is also in some schools, half the kids.

That's a "what" answer, not a "why" answer. You say that FCPS should have twice as many students taking algebra in 6th grade, but you don't say why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than the very few kids who are legitimately bored in 7th grade math in 6th grade, why does it matter to so many posters - or maybe just a few posters who are on the thread over and over - that FCPS widen the criteria for Algebra 1 honors in 6th? Is anyone's kid personally impacted? Does anyone really think the sole deciding point for a T10 college is going to be whether your kid was in differential equations in 12th versus linear algebra?

In general, I'm just anti-gatekeeping. I'd rather see the parents and child be able to make informed decisions about the best placement than see the school enact very rigid policies. I feel the same way about AP classes. Some districts gatekeep those. I'm glad that FCPS has open enrollment. Of course, for open enrollment, the administration, teachers, parents, and kids have to go into it with the understanding that advanced classes will not slow down for struggling kids, and it's the responsibility of the kid and parents to get tutoring if the kid is struggling.

DP. Everywhere that gatekeeping has ended or been reduced, the effects have not been good. AP classes have gotten easier (they have slowed down for struggling kids), which may be good for the barely-scraping-by students but isn't good for the good students, who used to be the only ones able to take the classes. Books have gotten worse as publishers have started buying fan fic and have fired their editors. Political parties have run amok when they have decided that gatekeeping is no longer their job. I can't think of any area where getting rid of gatekeeping has been beneficial on a micro or macro level.

Oh I wish we good go back to the days when the Democratic Party was still committed to gatekeeping like in 2016 when they guaranteed a qualified electable person like Hillary Clinton became President.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

It's not about college apps. It's about the correct placement for each child, so the child is neither overwhelmed nor bored.

Oh please. 6th graders aren't bored in pre-algebra. They are fine. This is about college applications and doing better than other kids, standing out.

Oh please. Kids who are advanced musicians aren't bored with playing twinkle twinkle little star in beginner orchestra. They are fine.
Oh please. Kids who are star athletes aren't bored with low level rec soccer. They are fine.
Oh please. 2nd graders reading middle or high school level fiction aren't bored with being forced to read Magic Treehouse. They are fine.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those asking for advanced math opportunities, FCPS already offers AAP math, and further with principal approval, 6th graders can enroll in Algebra 1 or go for summer geometry as rising 8th grader. Are you saying even more advanced math options should be provided?

Algebra in 6th grade is rare, 30 kids most years and only at a few schools. The path to Algebra in 6th is not publicly shared and is fully dependent on a test in 6th grade. People are saying that the path is too strict and needs to be made public.

DS had a 145 on the Q section of the CoGAT, has SOL scores that have never been lower then 550 in math, to include a perfect score, and iReady percentiles in the 99th percentile every time he has taken the iReady. No one discussed Algebra in 6th grade with us. He hit every bench mark for Algebra in 6th grade but our school is not one of the ones that actively looks for kids that fit the profile and we did not know that the path existed.

A ver small number students take Algebra 1 in 6th, definitely less than 1%. You can’t really ask the district to make programs and pour resources into something that so few students would benefit from.

In your case, you probably accelerated your kid with at home and outside enrichment, seems to me it’s more of your responsibility to figure out a path for advanced math placement, instead of complaining he wasn’t placed in 6th in Algebra. There are so many options available, just be nice and understanding when dealing with the school administrators, they most likely will work something out for your kid. Making demands and asking district wide policies and programs is definitely not the way to go.

Where did I complain about it in my post? We did not say anything to the school or complain to the administration. I was unaware that there was a path for Algebra in 6th grade until I read about it here in 5th grade because the county does not make that information public knowledge. The point is that there was at least one kid who met all of the criteria that is suppose to exist who was not offered the opportunity to accelerate at school because the school does not offer that opportunity. And he is not likely the only one that is not given the chance.

We did not prep for the NNAT or the CoGAT and we did not attend math enrichment until the COVID year, so 4th grade for my son. His NNAT and CoGAT scores were his ability, his iReady percentiles were in the 99th percentile in 1-4th grade, before we started RSM. We started RSM because he was bored with math at school, it is what we saw during online learning that prompted our choice to offer it to him.

His K Teacher commented on his math ability and had him working on first grade material in K. Every Teacher he had commented on his math ability and told us that there was no way he wouldn’t end up in Advanced Math. Had he been at one of the handful os schools that look for the benchmarks, there would have been a discussion to advance him or not. Now he is a 6th grader and he scored an 18 on the AMC8, participates in a ton of other math competitions, and studies math outside of school and RSM for fun.

If the County has a policy, and they do, then it should be applied uniformly, and it isn’t. And there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

Can you link to the policy the district didn’t follow?

Not accessible to URM parents. Only the privileged know how to get their 6th graders in Algebra 1. Must be publicly available so you dont have to come here and ask.

Ok, so you’re just making things up. You said the district has a policy and they’re not applying it uniformly, now you can’t find it because you’re URM. It’s not a policy, it’s left to the school and they can implement it if there are resources, a sufficient number of student to form a class etc.

What specifically are you complaining about?

They are not forming a class of Algebra 1 students in 6th grade. The kids either go to the MS to take the class or they take it online. The kids in 6th grade are dispersed around the County.

Did you ask that they test your student and place him in Algebra? You seem to be upset that they didn’t read your mind and foresee that you might be upset in the future that some kids take Algebra earlier than yours. We’re talking about 30 kids district wide out of 14000 that do Algebra in 6th, it’s usually parents advocating for their kids because it’s so rare, likely the schools won’t know what to do with them.

The point is that smart kids of uninvolved or incompetent parents ("unprivileged" or "URM" because that poster is extremely racist about the ability of URM people to care for their kids) can't get themselves into the advanced classes.

Out of the 30 kids capable of taking algebra in 6th, how many have uninvolved or incompetent parents? Likely you’re the only person having this issue. If indeed your student got 18 on AMC8 in 6th grade, the regular algebra class would not be very useful to him. That’s a score indicative of algebra mastery to say the least.

I can't make heads or taiks out of the confused mix of ideas in that paragraph. You seem to have missed that students not invited to Algebra in 6th are not among the 30 enrolled in Algebra in 6th.

But the AMC 8 is an (enriched) prealgebra test. Mastery of Algebra, including quadratics, is domain of the AMC 10.

https://maa.org/math-competitions/amc-8

Scoring 18/25 shows solid prealgebra skills, mature careful work, and quickness/fluency.

6th graders in Algebra 1 class are exactly the sort of people who score about 18. (I know several of them!).


And anyway, if as you say, these students have already mastered algebra, why would you think they should be in pre-algebra class instead?!

The district is not keeping any kids out of Algebra 1 in 6th grade. There no district policy that says a student should be placed in Algebra 1 if they pass certain criteria. It’s left to the latitude of the principal, because they need to figure out if they have the critical mass of students, qualified teachers etc.

You are complaining that there’s no default policy of placing 6th graders in Algebra! How do you not see the insanity of this approach, that’s appropriate for less than 1% of the students.

For such kids it always was about parents working with the school to find an acceptable solution for the math placement of the students, because there’s too few of them.

You could be bothered to do some research on it or talk to the principal, but somehow you think it’s unfair.

If your kid is indeed that advanced, work with the school to figure out a way to accelerate to their appropriate level through summer classes, doubling up, taking additional math as elective etc. in the vast majority of cases there’s a huge disconnect between how bright parents think the kids are and reality, and often schools need to say no to tiger parents inappropriately pushing their kids to advanced classes. Start by taking an independent evaluation like MAP and take the results to the administration to advocate for your kid, make a case and be persistent, friendly and gracious. Whining on DCUM about it will not help your kid’s cause.

DP. You're flat out incorrect with the bolded, and since this has already been explained in this thread, I question your basic reading comprehension.

The district actually does have a policy, and they've set forth specific criteria for Algebra I placement. It's left to the latitude of the principal, not due to any critical mass of students or qualified teachers, but rather because everything in FCPS is at the principal's discussion. They are the lord of their little kingdom. The ones who don't participate are doing so to dodge pushy parents or because they don't want to figure out the minimal logistical concerns required of them, or because they just can't be arsed to do so. Critical mass of students and qualified teachers are irrelevant, because the ES is not providing any of that. Kids who take Algebra in 6th must either do the online class or the parents must transport the kid to the middle school for 1st period, and then back to the ES for the full ES day. The principal doesn't need to do anything.

Also, while 6th grade Algebra is appropriate for less than 1% of the kids, it is appropriate for a much larger percent of the kids in AAP attending an AAP center. My large sized, mid-SES center generally has around 8 kids per grade level take Algebra in 6th. If they widened access to any kid who scored 140+ on the CogAT Q and likewise has iready scores showing readiness for Algebra, they'd likely have 15-20 kids.

Link to the district policy then.

Again, as it has been stated many times on this thread, the district policy is not publicly available. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist internally. Teachers and administrators can access the policy. Many parents of kids who have been accelerated have been shown the policy by their principals. I personally have laid eyes on the policy, but was not given a hardcopy.

So the policy exists, but it’s hidden! That’s just baseless speculation. Just for lolz I suggest you file a FOIA to get your hands on that elusive document. How can you claim your kid passed all criteria for placement if you haven’t seen the document? What evidence you have that Algebra in 6th was appropriate for him?

I may offer an alternative explanation. You didn’t have a conversation about your students placement with the math teacher who in turn may have honestly thought your child was not ready for Algebra 1 in 6th so she didn’t recommend that route. You’re high on that tiger parent fear of missing out and blame everyone for this situation. There are many other opportunities to accelerate your kid if this is what strokes your ego. I’d just be cautious about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

By that logic they should all stick to 8th grade algebra.

Loudoun has its 6th graders doing well in algebra, and they could probably let in more as they added more restrictions lately. Fairfax is a larger population, so it would be fine with double the numbers.
Also, math in Loudoun elementary is not accelerated. There is no AAP or Level 4 or whatever else Fairfax is doing. The students are likely better able to accelerate in Fairfax, except for the logistics of 6th grade in elementary.
7th grade algebra is also in some schools, half the kids.

That's a "what" answer, not a "why" answer. You say that FCPS should have twice as many students taking algebra in 6th grade, but you don't say why.

DP. I don't think FCPS "should" have twice as many students taking Algebra in 6th. I think that FCPS should give the option to take 6th grade Algebra to any kids who want to do so and are likely to succeed. There are likely well over 100 kids taking Algebra I in 6th grade or even earlier through RSM/AoPS/Chinese School/Curie. It's really dumb to make them sit in a pre-algebra class in FCPS when they're taking more rigorous Algebra classes outside of FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

By that logic they should all stick to 8th grade algebra.

Loudoun has its 6th graders doing well in algebra, and they could probably let in more as they added more restrictions lately. Fairfax is a larger population, so it would be fine with double the numbers.
Also, math in Loudoun elementary is not accelerated. There is no AAP or Level 4 or whatever else Fairfax is doing. The students are likely better able to accelerate in Fairfax, except for the logistics of 6th grade in elementary.
7th grade algebra is also in some schools, half the kids.

That's a "what" answer, not a "why" answer. You say that FCPS should have twice as many students taking algebra in 6th grade, but you don't say why.

DP. I don't think FCPS "should" have twice as many students taking Algebra in 6th. I think that FCPS should give the option to take 6th grade Algebra to any kids who want to do so and are likely to succeed. There are likely well over 100 kids taking Algebra I in 6th grade or even earlier through RSM/AoPS/Chinese School/Curie. It's really dumb to make them sit in a pre-algebra class in FCPS when they're taking more rigorous Algebra classes outside of FCPS.

Maybe, but it's not FCPS who is putting them in AOPS/RSM (Curie is LoCo not Fairfax). It's dumb if their parents to do that, not FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those asking for advanced math opportunities, FCPS already offers AAP math, and further with principal approval, 6th graders can enroll in Algebra 1 or go for summer geometry as rising 8th grader. Are you saying even more advanced math options should be provided?

Algebra in 6th grade is rare, 30 kids most years and only at a few schools. The path to Algebra in 6th is not publicly shared and is fully dependent on a test in 6th grade. People are saying that the path is too strict and needs to be made public.

DS had a 145 on the Q section of the CoGAT, has SOL scores that have never been lower then 550 in math, to include a perfect score, and iReady percentiles in the 99th percentile every time he has taken the iReady. No one discussed Algebra in 6th grade with us. He hit every bench mark for Algebra in 6th grade but our school is not one of the ones that actively looks for kids that fit the profile and we did not know that the path existed.

A ver small number students take Algebra 1 in 6th, definitely less than 1%. You can’t really ask the district to make programs and pour resources into something that so few students would benefit from.

In your case, you probably accelerated your kid with at home and outside enrichment, seems to me it’s more of your responsibility to figure out a path for advanced math placement, instead of complaining he wasn’t placed in 6th in Algebra. There are so many options available, just be nice and understanding when dealing with the school administrators, they most likely will work something out for your kid. Making demands and asking district wide policies and programs is definitely not the way to go.

Where did I complain about it in my post? We did not say anything to the school or complain to the administration. I was unaware that there was a path for Algebra in 6th grade until I read about it here in 5th grade because the county does not make that information public knowledge. The point is that there was at least one kid who met all of the criteria that is suppose to exist who was not offered the opportunity to accelerate at school because the school does not offer that opportunity. And he is not likely the only one that is not given the chance.

We did not prep for the NNAT or the CoGAT and we did not attend math enrichment until the COVID year, so 4th grade for my son. His NNAT and CoGAT scores were his ability, his iReady percentiles were in the 99th percentile in 1-4th grade, before we started RSM. We started RSM because he was bored with math at school, it is what we saw during online learning that prompted our choice to offer it to him.

His K Teacher commented on his math ability and had him working on first grade material in K. Every Teacher he had commented on his math ability and told us that there was no way he wouldn’t end up in Advanced Math. Had he been at one of the handful os schools that look for the benchmarks, there would have been a discussion to advance him or not. Now he is a 6th grader and he scored an 18 on the AMC8, participates in a ton of other math competitions, and studies math outside of school and RSM for fun.

If the County has a policy, and they do, then it should be applied uniformly, and it isn’t. And there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

Can you link to the policy the district didn’t follow?

Not accessible to URM parents. Only the privileged know how to get their 6th graders in Algebra 1. Must be publicly available so you dont have to come here and ask.

Ok, so you’re just making things up. You said the district has a policy and they’re not applying it uniformly, now you can’t find it because you’re URM. It’s not a policy, it’s left to the school and they can implement it if there are resources, a sufficient number of student to form a class etc.

What specifically are you complaining about?

They are not forming a class of Algebra 1 students in 6th grade. The kids either go to the MS to take the class or they take it online. The kids in 6th grade are dispersed around the County.

Did you ask that they test your student and place him in Algebra? You seem to be upset that they didn’t read your mind and foresee that you might be upset in the future that some kids take Algebra earlier than yours. We’re talking about 30 kids district wide out of 14000 that do Algebra in 6th, it’s usually parents advocating for their kids because it’s so rare, likely the schools won’t know what to do with them.

The point is that smart kids of uninvolved or incompetent parents ("unprivileged" or "URM" because that poster is extremely racist about the ability of URM people to care for their kids) can't get themselves into the advanced classes.

Out of the 30 kids capable of taking algebra in 6th, how many have uninvolved or incompetent parents? Likely you’re the only person having this issue. If indeed your student got 18 on AMC8 in 6th grade, the regular algebra class would not be very useful to him. That’s a score indicative of algebra mastery to say the least.

I can't make heads or taiks out of the confused mix of ideas in that paragraph. You seem to have missed that students not invited to Algebra in 6th are not among the 30 enrolled in Algebra in 6th.

But the AMC 8 is an (enriched) prealgebra test. Mastery of Algebra, including quadratics, is domain of the AMC 10.

https://maa.org/math-competitions/amc-8

Scoring 18/25 shows solid prealgebra skills, mature careful work, and quickness/fluency.

6th graders in Algebra 1 class are exactly the sort of people who score about 18. (I know several of them!).


And anyway, if as you say, these students have already mastered algebra, why would you think they should be in pre-algebra class instead?!

The district is not keeping any kids out of Algebra 1 in 6th grade. There no district policy that says a student should be placed in Algebra 1 if they pass certain criteria. It’s left to the latitude of the principal, because they need to figure out if they have the critical mass of students, qualified teachers etc.

You are complaining that there’s no default policy of placing 6th graders in Algebra! How do you not see the insanity of this approach, that’s appropriate for less than 1% of the students.

For such kids it always was about parents working with the school to find an acceptable solution for the math placement of the students, because there’s too few of them.

You could be bothered to do some research on it or talk to the principal, but somehow you think it’s unfair.

If your kid is indeed that advanced, work with the school to figure out a way to accelerate to their appropriate level through summer classes, doubling up, taking additional math as elective etc. in the vast majority of cases there’s a huge disconnect between how bright parents think the kids are and reality, and often schools need to say no to tiger parents inappropriately pushing their kids to advanced classes. Start by taking an independent evaluation like MAP and take the results to the administration to advocate for your kid, make a case and be persistent, friendly and gracious. Whining on DCUM about it will not help your kid’s cause.

DP. You're flat out incorrect with the bolded, and since this has already been explained in this thread, I question your basic reading comprehension.

The district actually does have a policy, and they've set forth specific criteria for Algebra I placement. It's left to the latitude of the principal, not due to any critical mass of students or qualified teachers, but rather because everything in FCPS is at the principal's discussion. They are the lord of their little kingdom. The ones who don't participate are doing so to dodge pushy parents or because they don't want to figure out the minimal logistical concerns required of them, or because they just can't be arsed to do so. Critical mass of students and qualified teachers are irrelevant, because the ES is not providing any of that. Kids who take Algebra in 6th must either do the online class or the parents must transport the kid to the middle school for 1st period, and then back to the ES for the full ES day. The principal doesn't need to do anything.

Also, while 6th grade Algebra is appropriate for less than 1% of the kids, it is appropriate for a much larger percent of the kids in AAP attending an AAP center. My large sized, mid-SES center generally has around 8 kids per grade level take Algebra in 6th. If they widened access to any kid who scored 140+ on the CogAT Q and likewise has iready scores showing readiness for Algebra, they'd likely have 15-20 kids.

Link to the district policy then.

Again, as it has been stated many times on this thread, the district policy is not publicly available. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist internally. Teachers and administrators can access the policy. Many parents of kids who have been accelerated have been shown the policy by their principals. I personally have laid eyes on the policy, but was not given a hardcopy.

So the policy exists, but it’s hidden! That’s just baseless speculation. Just for lolz I suggest you file a FOIA to get your hands on that elusive document. How can you claim your kid passed all criteria for placement if you haven’t seen the document? What evidence you have that Algebra in 6th was appropriate for him?

I may offer an alternative explanation. You didn’t have a conversation about your students placement with the math teacher who in turn may have honestly thought your child was not ready for Algebra 1 in 6th so she didn’t recommend that route. You’re high on that tiger parent fear of missing out and blame everyone for this situation. There are many other opportunities to accelerate your kid if this is what strokes your ego. I’d just be cautious about it.

I'm the PP you quoted, but you're mixing up several posters. My kid was skipped ahead earlier than 6th grade, and was taking 6th grade AAP math when in 4th grade. My school's principal showed me the policy when my kid was first skipped. I have laid eyes on the policy, as I stated in the post you quoted. A friend's kid took 6th grade Algebra at a different FCPS school, and they saw the same process and document that I did. FCPS does not want parents to know the official policy, because they don't want people to prep even more for CogAT, and they don't want to deal with pushy parents. You probably could file a FOIA or email the math head at Gatehouse. If your child is at an AAP center that has a decent number of kids skip up to 6th grade AAP math when in 5th, your school's AART or principal might be willing to show you the policy. If you ask any of the parents of the kids who skipped up, they can all tell you the process their kids needed to complete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

By that logic they should all stick to 8th grade algebra.

Loudoun has its 6th graders doing well in algebra, and they could probably let in more as they added more restrictions lately. Fairfax is a larger population, so it would be fine with double the numbers.
Also, math in Loudoun elementary is not accelerated. There is no AAP or Level 4 or whatever else Fairfax is doing. The students are likely better able to accelerate in Fairfax, except for the logistics of 6th grade in elementary.
7th grade algebra is also in some schools, half the kids.

That's a "what" answer, not a "why" answer. You say that FCPS should have twice as many students taking algebra in 6th grade, but you don't say why.

DP. I don't think FCPS "should" have twice as many students taking Algebra in 6th. I think that FCPS should give the option to take 6th grade Algebra to any kids who want to do so and are likely to succeed. There are likely well over 100 kids taking Algebra I in 6th grade or even earlier through RSM/AoPS/Chinese School/Curie. It's really dumb to make them sit in a pre-algebra class in FCPS when they're taking more rigorous Algebra classes outside of FCPS.

You really are out of your mind! Just because someone takes a class at AOPS doesn’t mean the district should place them in Algebra in 6th. There no obligation of the school system to recognize coursework done elsewhere. They don’t know the curriculum, how rigorous the assessment was, or even if in fact the kid took the class since it’s just an online account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

By that logic they should all stick to 8th grade algebra.

Loudoun has its 6th graders doing well in algebra, and they could probably let in more as they added more restrictions lately. Fairfax is a larger population, so it would be fine with double the numbers.
Also, math in Loudoun elementary is not accelerated. There is no AAP or Level 4 or whatever else Fairfax is doing. The students are likely better able to accelerate in Fairfax, except for the logistics of 6th grade in elementary.
7th grade algebra is also in some schools, half the kids.

That's a "what" answer, not a "why" answer. You say that FCPS should have twice as many students taking algebra in 6th grade, but you don't say why.

DP. I don't think FCPS "should" have twice as many students taking Algebra in 6th. I think that FCPS should give the option to take 6th grade Algebra to any kids who want to do so and are likely to succeed. There are likely well over 100 kids taking Algebra I in 6th grade or even earlier through RSM/AoPS/Chinese School/Curie. It's really dumb to make them sit in a pre-algebra class in FCPS when they're taking more rigorous Algebra classes outside of FCPS.

Maybe, but it's not FCPS who is putting them in AOPS/RSM (Curie is LoCo not Fairfax). It's dumb if their parents to do that, not FCPS.

It doesn't matter why the kid is advanced and capable of handling Algebra. It's dumb for FCPS to force the kid to be sitting in a pre-algebra classroom rather than an Algebra one if the kid already knows pre-algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those asking for advanced math opportunities, FCPS already offers AAP math, and further with principal approval, 6th graders can enroll in Algebra 1 or go for summer geometry as rising 8th grader. Are you saying even more advanced math options should be provided?

Algebra in 6th grade is rare, 30 kids most years and only at a few schools. The path to Algebra in 6th is not publicly shared and is fully dependent on a test in 6th grade. People are saying that the path is too strict and needs to be made public.

DS had a 145 on the Q section of the CoGAT, has SOL scores that have never been lower then 550 in math, to include a perfect score, and iReady percentiles in the 99th percentile every time he has taken the iReady. No one discussed Algebra in 6th grade with us. He hit every bench mark for Algebra in 6th grade but our school is not one of the ones that actively looks for kids that fit the profile and we did not know that the path existed.

A ver small number students take Algebra 1 in 6th, definitely less than 1%. You can’t really ask the district to make programs and pour resources into something that so few students would benefit from.

In your case, you probably accelerated your kid with at home and outside enrichment, seems to me it’s more of your responsibility to figure out a path for advanced math placement, instead of complaining he wasn’t placed in 6th in Algebra. There are so many options available, just be nice and understanding when dealing with the school administrators, they most likely will work something out for your kid. Making demands and asking district wide policies and programs is definitely not the way to go.

Where did I complain about it in my post? We did not say anything to the school or complain to the administration. I was unaware that there was a path for Algebra in 6th grade until I read about it here in 5th grade because the county does not make that information public knowledge. The point is that there was at least one kid who met all of the criteria that is suppose to exist who was not offered the opportunity to accelerate at school because the school does not offer that opportunity. And he is not likely the only one that is not given the chance.

We did not prep for the NNAT or the CoGAT and we did not attend math enrichment until the COVID year, so 4th grade for my son. His NNAT and CoGAT scores were his ability, his iReady percentiles were in the 99th percentile in 1-4th grade, before we started RSM. We started RSM because he was bored with math at school, it is what we saw during online learning that prompted our choice to offer it to him.

His K Teacher commented on his math ability and had him working on first grade material in K. Every Teacher he had commented on his math ability and told us that there was no way he wouldn’t end up in Advanced Math. Had he been at one of the handful os schools that look for the benchmarks, there would have been a discussion to advance him or not. Now he is a 6th grader and he scored an 18 on the AMC8, participates in a ton of other math competitions, and studies math outside of school and RSM for fun.

If the County has a policy, and they do, then it should be applied uniformly, and it isn’t. And there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

Can you link to the policy the district didn’t follow?

Not accessible to URM parents. Only the privileged know how to get their 6th graders in Algebra 1. Must be publicly available so you dont have to come here and ask.

Ok, so you’re just making things up. You said the district has a policy and they’re not applying it uniformly, now you can’t find it because you’re URM. It’s not a policy, it’s left to the school and they can implement it if there are resources, a sufficient number of student to form a class etc.

What specifically are you complaining about?

They are not forming a class of Algebra 1 students in 6th grade. The kids either go to the MS to take the class or they take it online. The kids in 6th grade are dispersed around the County.

Did you ask that they test your student and place him in Algebra? You seem to be upset that they didn’t read your mind and foresee that you might be upset in the future that some kids take Algebra earlier than yours. We’re talking about 30 kids district wide out of 14000 that do Algebra in 6th, it’s usually parents advocating for their kids because it’s so rare, likely the schools won’t know what to do with them.

The point is that smart kids of uninvolved or incompetent parents ("unprivileged" or "URM" because that poster is extremely racist about the ability of URM people to care for their kids) can't get themselves into the advanced classes.

Out of the 30 kids capable of taking algebra in 6th, how many have uninvolved or incompetent parents? Likely you’re the only person having this issue. If indeed your student got 18 on AMC8 in 6th grade, the regular algebra class would not be very useful to him. That’s a score indicative of algebra mastery to say the least.

I can't make heads or taiks out of the confused mix of ideas in that paragraph. You seem to have missed that students not invited to Algebra in 6th are not among the 30 enrolled in Algebra in 6th.

But the AMC 8 is an (enriched) prealgebra test. Mastery of Algebra, including quadratics, is domain of the AMC 10.

https://maa.org/math-competitions/amc-8

Scoring 18/25 shows solid prealgebra skills, mature careful work, and quickness/fluency.

6th graders in Algebra 1 class are exactly the sort of people who score about 18. (I know several of them!).


And anyway, if as you say, these students have already mastered algebra, why would you think they should be in pre-algebra class instead?!

The district is not keeping any kids out of Algebra 1 in 6th grade. There no district policy that says a student should be placed in Algebra 1 if they pass certain criteria. It’s left to the latitude of the principal, because they need to figure out if they have the critical mass of students, qualified teachers etc.

You are complaining that there’s no default policy of placing 6th graders in Algebra! How do you not see the insanity of this approach, that’s appropriate for less than 1% of the students.

For such kids it always was about parents working with the school to find an acceptable solution for the math placement of the students, because there’s too few of them.

You could be bothered to do some research on it or talk to the principal, but somehow you think it’s unfair.

If your kid is indeed that advanced, work with the school to figure out a way to accelerate to their appropriate level through summer classes, doubling up, taking additional math as elective etc. in the vast majority of cases there’s a huge disconnect between how bright parents think the kids are and reality, and often schools need to say no to tiger parents inappropriately pushing their kids to advanced classes. Start by taking an independent evaluation like MAP and take the results to the administration to advocate for your kid, make a case and be persistent, friendly and gracious. Whining on DCUM about it will not help your kid’s cause.

DP. You're flat out incorrect with the bolded, and since this has already been explained in this thread, I question your basic reading comprehension.

The district actually does have a policy, and they've set forth specific criteria for Algebra I placement. It's left to the latitude of the principal, not due to any critical mass of students or qualified teachers, but rather because everything in FCPS is at the principal's discussion. They are the lord of their little kingdom. The ones who don't participate are doing so to dodge pushy parents or because they don't want to figure out the minimal logistical concerns required of them, or because they just can't be arsed to do so. Critical mass of students and qualified teachers are irrelevant, because the ES is not providing any of that. Kids who take Algebra in 6th must either do the online class or the parents must transport the kid to the middle school for 1st period, and then back to the ES for the full ES day. The principal doesn't need to do anything.

Also, while 6th grade Algebra is appropriate for less than 1% of the kids, it is appropriate for a much larger percent of the kids in AAP attending an AAP center. My large sized, mid-SES center generally has around 8 kids per grade level take Algebra in 6th. If they widened access to any kid who scored 140+ on the CogAT Q and likewise has iready scores showing readiness for Algebra, they'd likely have 15-20 kids.

Link to the district policy then.

Again, as it has been stated many times on this thread, the district policy is not publicly available. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist internally. Teachers and administrators can access the policy. Many parents of kids who have been accelerated have been shown the policy by their principals. I personally have laid eyes on the policy, but was not given a hardcopy.

So the policy exists, but it’s hidden! That’s just baseless speculation. Just for lolz I suggest you file a FOIA to get your hands on that elusive document. How can you claim your kid passed all criteria for placement if you haven’t seen the document? What evidence you have that Algebra in 6th was appropriate for him?

I may offer an alternative explanation. You didn’t have a conversation about your students placement with the math teacher who in turn may have honestly thought your child was not ready for Algebra 1 in 6th so she didn’t recommend that route. You’re high on that tiger parent fear of missing out and blame everyone for this situation. There are many other opportunities to accelerate your kid if this is what strokes your ego. I’d just be cautious about it.

I'm the PP you quoted, but you're mixing up several posters. My kid was skipped ahead earlier than 6th grade, and was taking 6th grade AAP math when in 4th grade. My school's principal showed me the policy when my kid was first skipped. I have laid eyes on the policy, as I stated in the post you quoted. A friend's kid took 6th grade Algebra at a different FCPS school, and they saw the same process and document that I did. FCPS does not want parents to know the official policy, because they don't want people to prep even more for CogAT, and they don't want to deal with pushy parents. You probably could file a FOIA or email the math head at Gatehouse. If your child is at an AAP center that has a decent number of kids skip up to 6th grade AAP math when in 5th, your school's AART or principal might be willing to show you the policy. If you ask any of the parents of the kids who skipped up, they can all tell you the process their kids needed to complete.

Ok, so it’s just hearsay that can’t be verified. You’ve seen it, heard about it, and we should take your word for it, because of course you wouldn’t make stuff up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

By that logic they should all stick to 8th grade algebra.

Loudoun has its 6th graders doing well in algebra, and they could probably let in more as they added more restrictions lately. Fairfax is a larger population, so it would be fine with double the numbers.
Also, math in Loudoun elementary is not accelerated. There is no AAP or Level 4 or whatever else Fairfax is doing. The students are likely better able to accelerate in Fairfax, except for the logistics of 6th grade in elementary.
7th grade algebra is also in some schools, half the kids.

That's a "what" answer, not a "why" answer. You say that FCPS should have twice as many students taking algebra in 6th grade, but you don't say why.

DP. I don't think FCPS "should" have twice as many students taking Algebra in 6th. I think that FCPS should give the option to take 6th grade Algebra to any kids who want to do so and are likely to succeed. There are likely well over 100 kids taking Algebra I in 6th grade or even earlier through RSM/AoPS/Chinese School/Curie. It's really dumb to make them sit in a pre-algebra class in FCPS when they're taking more rigorous Algebra classes outside of FCPS.

You really are out of your mind! Just because someone takes a class at AOPS doesn’t mean the district should place them in Algebra in 6th. There no obligation of the school system to recognize coursework done elsewhere. They don’t know the curriculum, how rigorous the assessment was, or even if in fact the kid took the class since it’s just an online account.

Okay. Then give a math placement test to anyone who requests one. FCPS won't do this, either. If your kid is ready for Algebra, and you ask FCPS to give your kid a placement test, they will refuse to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax probably should have twice as many kids in 6th grade algebra.

Why? What's the point?

If the advanced students stick to 7th grade algebra, then they are all advanced together. No one has to be "more advanced" than the advanced kids for college apps.

By that logic they should all stick to 8th grade algebra.

Loudoun has its 6th graders doing well in algebra, and they could probably let in more as they added more restrictions lately. Fairfax is a larger population, so it would be fine with double the numbers.
Also, math in Loudoun elementary is not accelerated. There is no AAP or Level 4 or whatever else Fairfax is doing. The students are likely better able to accelerate in Fairfax, except for the logistics of 6th grade in elementary.
7th grade algebra is also in some schools, half the kids.

That's a "what" answer, not a "why" answer. You say that FCPS should have twice as many students taking algebra in 6th grade, but you don't say why.

That is the why. I'm assuming Fairfax is correct to have some kids in 6th grade algebra. Given that, the correct number is likely higher than what they are doing.

[Anonymous]

Some of you never felt over your head in class and it shows.