How do kids from lower ranked schools land prestigious internships/jobs?!?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

Banks have diversity targets, it's not just the federal government.

And several clients, both public and private, use diversity among employees and management as a metric when evaluating vendors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few observations re elite college dominance in "prestigious" hiring, insofar as it ever was a dominance. Elite in this context means Ivy+.

It's definitely changing. The brand name of the elite schools have weakened through the substantial changes in student demographics in the last 20 years. The upper 50% of elite students remain elite and sought after. However, they disproportionately go into grad school (stem/medicine/law) or get funneled into a handful of elite career tracks re consulting firms. The bottom 50% of elite college students have become too variable to be reliable. They get a shot after graduation with the first job, but if they don't succeed at it, then the benefit of their college diploma is gone forever.

Same principle above now also applies to grads of elite grad programs and law schools. Even Harvard/Yale law grads are increasingly breaking apart into the upper and bottom 50%. The name alone is less reliable a gauge for competence and professionalism in the workplace.

The hardest and most competent workers in corp America are female grads of large state universities. They increasingly dominate. Many were in sororities.

The highest achieving in terms of generating revenues are still men, both white and South Asian.

You sound racist (since you think you can generalize about each group!)

And do you not hear the irony is saying women work the hardest but white men still make more.

Not PP, but sales makes money and is largely dominated by men

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

Actually, there ARE diversity recruitment targets in the private sector, definitely at major professional services firms. So we do see certain types of kids being squeezed out. By the time, you bring in the kids with connections and the kids to meet your DEI targets, there aren’t many spots left open. It’s brutal.

Ask me how I know.

Yes, especially in banking, the most prestigious banks all have special diversity internships earmarked for the summer after sophomore year. Very big in IBanking. This means that most other kids need to start networking early fall or summer of junior year to land the plum internships junior year summer. Ideally those convert to job offers before the start of senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

Actually, there ARE diversity recruitment targets in the private sector, definitely at major professional services firms. So we do see certain types of kids being squeezed out. By the time, you bring in the kids with connections and the kids to meet your DEI targets, there aren’t many spots left open. It’s brutal.

Ask me how I know.

Yes, especially in banking, the most prestigious banks all have special diversity internships earmarked for the summer after sophomore year. Very big in IBanking. This means that most other kids need to start networking early fall or summer of junior year to land the plum internships junior year summer. Ideally those convert to job offers before the start of senior year.

Sorry, networking summer before junior year or early fall to land banking and finance internships after junior year.

[Anonymous]

So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

Yes. The people creating the targets will never do it at the expense of their own jobs. It's new hires without connections who bear the brunt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few observations re elite college dominance in "prestigious" hiring, insofar as it ever was a dominance. Elite in this context means Ivy+.

It's definitely changing. The brand name of the elite schools have weakened through the substantial changes in student demographics in the last 20 years. The upper 50% of elite students remain elite and sought after. However, they disproportionately go into grad school (stem/medicine/law) or get funneled into a handful of elite career tracks re consulting firms. The bottom 50% of elite college students have become too variable to be reliable. They get a shot after graduation with the first job, but if they don't succeed at it, then the benefit of their college diploma is gone forever.

Same principle above now also applies to grads of elite grad programs and law schools. Even Harvard/Yale law grads are increasingly breaking apart into the upper and bottom 50%. The name alone is less reliable a gauge for competence and professionalism in the workplace.

The hardest and most competent workers in corp America are female grads of large state universities. They increasingly dominate. Many were in sororities.

The highest achieving in terms of generating revenues are still men, both white and South Asian.

You sound racist (since you think you can generalize about each group!)

And do you not hear the irony is saying women work the hardest but white men still make more.

You should learn the difference between grind and revenue generation. They are not the same. Women are good managers, but men still have the advantage in knowing how to make money.

As for the diversity targets people mention on here. Yep they exist, but people also exaggerate how extensive they are. Corps are also realistic, they still need high performers. I've seen the diversity hires and the failure rate is high. And as for the future, those targets are under increased scrutinity legally. Activist groups are launching legal challenges based on recent SCOTUS rulings so the future is not bright.

Good news is that high performers and skilled managers of any gender and race are in great demand. A high performer of certain sacred cow demographics are hugely sought after and can command their price. But the mediocre of any race or gender will flounder and get pushed out sooner or later. Whether fired or politely laid off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

Yes. The people creating the targets will never do it at the expense of their own jobs. It's new hires without connections who bear the brunt

And it’s difficult for well-meaning people who can’t understand why a college graduate can’t find a job easily and quickly. I know a dad who is so frustrated that his son can’t find a job six months after graduation. Leads to tension in the family. The kid is working, but not in his field. My son is a business major. I think it’s even more difficult in that field for a white male. Fingers crossed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

Rely on your son’s networking, friends, family, and local businesses for early internships and regular jobs, which are very important. For large companies, the field opens up during junior year. Most employers recognize kids need internships during their junior year, and so preference is usually given to juniors. This thread started with questions about a handful of firms - those are a special beast, with special programs for diversity hires early in the college career - summer after sophomore year, typically. You should expect your son to work hard to find placements, and he will, even if he is at one of these lower ranked schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

Yes. The people creating the targets will never do it at the expense of their own jobs. It's new hires without connections who bear the brunt

And it’s difficult for well-meaning people who can’t understand why a college graduate can’t find a job easily and quickly. I know a dad who is so frustrated that his son can’t find a job six months after graduation. Leads to tension in the family. The kid is working, but not in his field. My son is a business major. I think it’s even more difficult in that field for a white male. Fingers crossed!

Business is often a loosey-goosey major; encourage him to minor in accounting or finance or something else and / or to double major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

Rely on your son’s networking, friends, family, and local businesses for early internships and regular jobs, which are very important. For large companies, the field opens up during junior year. Most employers recognize kids need internships during their junior year, and so preference is usually given to juniors. This thread started with questions about a handful of firms - those are a special beast, with special programs for diversity hires early in the college career - summer after sophomore year, typically. You should expect your son to work hard to find placements, and he will, even if he is at one of these lower ranked schools.

Thank you for the advice. He (& his parents) will keep our nose to the grindstone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

Well, it has been bad news for every other type of son (and daughter) for hundreds of years. So, trying think of it as a level playing field, finally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

Yes. The people creating the targets will never do it at the expense of their own jobs. It's new hires without connections who bear the brunt

And it’s difficult for well-meaning people who can’t understand why a college graduate can’t find a job easily and quickly. I know a dad who is so frustrated that his son can’t find a job six months after graduation. Leads to tension in the family. The kid is working, but not in his field. My son is a business major. I think it’s even more difficult in that field for a white male. Fingers crossed!

Business is often a loosey-goosey major; encourage him to minor in accounting or finance or something else and / or to double major.

Thank you. Yes, I’ve mentioned to him that general business/business admin degree is a little vague. I’ve suggested accounting( I’d be so happy ) but he doesn’t seem eager about that area. He has mentioned supply chain management. Also likes finance .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

Yes. The people creating the targets will never do it at the expense of their own jobs. It's new hires without connections who bear the brunt

And it’s difficult for well-meaning people who can’t understand why a college graduate can’t find a job easily and quickly. I know a dad who is so frustrated that his son can’t find a job six months after graduation. Leads to tension in the family. The kid is working, but not in his field. My son is a business major. I think it’s even more difficult in that field for a white male. Fingers crossed!

You sound absolutely ridiculous!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So with all these diversity targets, is it bad news then for my white, lower middle class son without connections to find internships and first job? I’m sure he’ll hit the pavement running, but sounds a bit discouraging.

There has always been a lower middle class demo on Wall Street. Lloyd Blankfein, to take an example - he's the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, which stands atop the investment banking world - was the son of a postal worker and receptionist and grew up in the Bronx. I believe he started at a small firm trading gold.

But I do think it is more difficult today. You have the privileged, well-connected students with pedigree degrees. They've always been there. Nothing new. And you have hiring priorities, particularly in banking, which favors DEI hires. If your kid is even remotely Black or Hispanic, there are so many internship opportunities.

In the end, it's always the grinders that rise to the top. Maybe they don't have the same opportunities at 19. But they grind. And by 40 they're everyone's boss. I would encourage networking and calls everywhere. Things like LinkedIn make everything so much easier. And people do generally like to help. Go to the best possible school you can. The great thing about this country is that it tends to work out for smart, disciplined, hard-working people regardless of their background. If you crash and burn, start again.