How do kids from lower ranked schools land prestigious internships/jobs?!?!

[Anonymous]

I don't know where to start, but I will try. Just as graduating from top private schools does not guarantee admission to top 25 schools, attending a top 25 school does not guarantee a top internship or a job with a prestigious company.

In person interviews (in front of a panel of Partners) gives your kid the opportunity to intern or get their first job opportunity. One of the issues we come upon when hiring young adults, either for internships or first year jobs, is what may be their people skills/communication skills and commitment to the job.

We have found that kids from State schools (with marginal grades) are the hardest working people in the company/firm. These new employees are in the office by 6 am and don't leave until 11 pm or later. It is true commitment from these new inters/hires to learn and understand how our firm operates. We appreciate their hard work. They also have incredible interpersonal skills that they obviously learned at big state schools. We often find young adults from prestigious universities arrive at work by 9am and are out the door by 5:30.
Obviously COVID changed many things, but in a post COVID environment there has been a distinct change in who actually shows up to the office.

To quote you, "is deeply upsetting when kid had to work SO hard to get into a top school and then see kids who have worked less hard, coming from schools with 80%+ acceptance rates, end up with opportunities that we have been told are easier to get as top school grads".

I think you may need to step back and evaluate what and where you (and your kid are coming from).

[Anonymous]

A few observations re elite college dominance in "prestigious" hiring, insofar as it ever was a dominance. Elite in this context means Ivy+.

It's definitely changing. The brand name of the elite schools have weakened through the substantial changes in student demographics in the last 20 years. The upper 50% of elite students remain elite and sought after. However, they disproportionately go into grad school (stem/medicine/law) or get funneled into a handful of elite career tracks re consulting firms. The bottom 50% of elite college students have become too variable to be reliable. They get a shot after graduation with the first job, but if they don't succeed at it, then the benefit of their college diploma is gone forever.

Same principle above now also applies to grads of elite grad programs and law schools. Even Harvard/Yale law grads are increasingly breaking apart into the upper and bottom 50%. The name alone is less reliable a gauge for competence and professionalism in the workplace.

The hardest and most competent workers in corp America are female grads of large state universities. They increasingly dominate. Many were in sororities.

The highest achieving in terms of generating revenues are still men, both white and South Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:b.

We have found that kids from State schools (with marginal grades) are the hardest working people in the company/firm. These new employees are in the office by 6 am and don't leave until 11 pm or later. It is true commitment from these new inters/hires to learn and understand how our firm operates. We appreciate their hard work. They also have incredible interpersonal skills that they obviously learned at big state schools. We often find young adults from prestigious universities arrive at work by 9am and are out the door by 5:30.

Sincere question: Is this your measure of a successful young employee? One that arrives at 6 am and doesn't leave until at least 11 pm?
If other employees can produce strong work between 9am-6pm, is that not acceptable since they "only" work an 8.5 hour day? Some of my best employees are very efficient with their time, which is what prompts my question.

I'd honestly be concerned about employees who needed to work a minimum of 15 hrs/day to deliver on expectations. Not to mention that such a schedule suggests they are sleep deprived if they consistently log ~ 5.5 hrs/sleep per night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:b.

We have found that kids from State schools (with marginal grades) are the hardest working people in the company/firm. These new employees are in the office by 6 am and don't leave until 11 pm or later. It is true commitment from these new inters/hires to learn and understand how our firm operates. We appreciate their hard work. They also have incredible interpersonal skills that they obviously learned at big state schools. We often find young adults from prestigious universities arrive at work by 9am and are out the door by 5:30.

Sincere question: Is this your measure of a successful young employee? One that arrives at 6 am and doesn't leave until at least 11 pm?
If other employees can produce strong work between 9am-6pm, is that not acceptable since they "only" work an 8.5 hour day? Some of my best employees are very efficient with their time, which is what prompts my question.

I'd honestly be concerned about employees who needed to work a minimum of 15 hrs/day to deliver on expectations. Not to mention that such a schedule suggests they are sleep deprived if they consistently log ~ 5.5 hrs/sleep per night.

To answer your question, we measure success on results. So there are defiantly young adults from top schools that can complete their assignments in a shorter time frame. We are also excited for the young people that complete assignments in a timely fashion even though they need to work late hours. Nobody is required to work 15 hour days, much less. Working from home/flexability is also a big driver for hires post COVID. That being said, we appreciate the young adults that have committed to the company/firm and CHOOSE to spend the extra hours learning and working to complete their assigned work.

It is our observation that young adults from big state schools have interpersonal skills that relate to a large percentage of our clients. Some from SLACS or top 20's have not really had the chance to interact with a wide variety of people. Meaning different races, political views, etc...

That being said, we appreciate the young adults that have committed to the company/firm and CHOOSE to spend the extra hours learning and working to complete their assigned work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a top 25 school. He went through the summer internship interview process last year but didn’t land an internship with any of the prestigious employers people talk about here - banks, asset managers, consulting, etc. His school is so bloody competitive and there are so many hard driving and high achieving kids and, I guess, only this many spots at these firms per school. Kid has been pretty devastated.

But what has made it worse is seeing kids from lower ranked schools on LinkedIn, think 150+, who end up with internships at such places! I realise how this comes off but it is deeply upsetting when kid had to work SO hard to get into a top school and then see kids who have worked less hard, coming from schools with 80%+ acceptance rates, end up with opportunities that we have been told are easier to get as top school grads.

Kid just feels, what was the point of busting his behind so hard, he could have taken it easier, enjoyed high school a bit more, could have gone to a lower ranked school and still ended up at BlackRock or JP Morgan or Bain. And, of course, I haven’t shared this with him, but I’ve started feeling the same way.

You’re so entitled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a top 25 school. He went through the summer internship interview process last year but didn’t land an internship with any of the prestigious employers people talk about here - banks, asset managers, consulting, etc. His school is so bloody competitive and there are so many hard driving and high achieving kids and, I guess, only this many spots at these firms per school. Kid has been pretty devastated.

But what has made it worse is seeing kids from lower ranked schools on LinkedIn, think 150+, who end up with internships at such places! I realise how this comes off but it is deeply upsetting when kid had to work SO hard to get into a top school and then see kids who have worked less hard, coming from schools with 80%+ acceptance rates, end up with opportunities that we have been told are easier to get as top school grads.

Kid just feels, what was the point of busting his behind so hard, he could have taken it easier, enjoyed high school a bit more, could have gone to a lower ranked school and still ended up at BlackRock or JP Morgan or Bain. And, of course, I haven’t shared this with him, but I’ve started feeling the same way.

Can you wrap your mind around the proposition that students at lower ranked schools also work hard?

There are a lot of assumptions in these two sentences.

Not OP. Can you in all honesty say that the AVERAGE kid at a 150+ school has worked as hard in high school as the AVERAGE kid at Princeton or MIT?? I think not but I’d be happy for people to prove me wrong.

- Grad of 150+ school who remembers what his average classmates were like

Some very smart hard working kids need to go to lower ranked schools because of merit.

+1

The world has changed. There are smart, motivated kids everywhere.

There were always smart, motivated kids everywhere.

+1

What has changed is a willingness to hire smart motivated kids who come from diverse backgrounds.

I was the first AA student from my HS to land a much-coveted summer internship at a local newspaper. A week in, my mentor told me that he voted for a classmate of mine because he wasn’t sure they were ready for a Black girl. This was a major U.S. city in 1989.

[Anonymous]

OP’s implicit assumptions are the biggest problem with college admissions today. Too many people think that
A) the only jobs that lead anywhere are through marquis companies and
B) the only way to get into those jobs are through ultra-rejective universities

Neither if these are true. Is it easier to get into Bain from Harvard? Of course. But you can do it from university of Iowa too. Or you can join any number of other smaller consulting firms where you might actually have a better life and have a chance of being promoted and taking ownership of your career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:b.

We have found that kids from State schools (with marginal grades) are the hardest working people in the company/firm. These new employees are in the office by 6 am and don't leave until 11 pm or later. It is true commitment from these new inters/hires to learn and understand how our firm operates. We appreciate their hard work. They also have incredible interpersonal skills that they obviously learned at big state schools. We often find young adults from prestigious universities arrive at work by 9am and are out the door by 5:30.

Sincere question: Is this your measure of a successful young employee? One that arrives at 6 am and doesn't leave until at least 11 pm?
If other employees can produce strong work between 9am-6pm, is that not acceptable since they "only" work an 8.5 hour day? Some of my best employees are very efficient with their time, which is what prompts my question.

I'd honestly be concerned about employees who needed to work a minimum of 15 hrs/day to deliver on expectations. Not to mention that such a schedule suggests they are sleep deprived if they consistently log ~ 5.5 hrs/sleep per night.

Right? What nobody here seems to consider is that the students graduating from the bottom half of their "elite" college still had a better education than those at the bottom half of the state university. I would guess, PP, that the kids are work from 9 to 5:30 get their work done and, more importantly, are done being around the full-time staff like you. And know better than to believe they're fooling anybody just by putting in long hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

Actually, there ARE diversity recruitment targets in the private sector, definitely at major professional services firms. So we do see certain types of kids being squeezed out. By the time, you bring in the kids with connections and the kids to meet your DEI targets, there aren’t many spots left open. It’s brutal.

Ask me how I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

Actually, there ARE diversity recruitment targets in the private sector, definitely at major professional services firms. So we do see certain types of kids being squeezed out. By the time, you bring in the kids with connections and the kids to meet your DEI targets, there aren’t many spots left open. It’s brutal.

Ask me how I know.

PP, which students are considered diverse for the professional services firms? Black, Hispanic, and first gen understandably. What about women? More than one race? LGBTQ+? Religious minority? Veteran? Disability? Asian or Middle Eastern often are underrepresented-what about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

Banks have diversity targets, it's not just the federal government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

Banks have diversity targets, it's not just the federal government.

+1 work at a media company and we definitely have diversity targets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few observations re elite college dominance in "prestigious" hiring, insofar as it ever was a dominance. Elite in this context means Ivy+.

It's definitely changing. The brand name of the elite schools have weakened through the substantial changes in student demographics in the last 20 years. The upper 50% of elite students remain elite and sought after. However, they disproportionately go into grad school (stem/medicine/law) or get funneled into a handful of elite career tracks re consulting firms. The bottom 50% of elite college students have become too variable to be reliable. They get a shot after graduation with the first job, but if they don't succeed at it, then the benefit of their college diploma is gone forever.

Same principle above now also applies to grads of elite grad programs and law schools. Even Harvard/Yale law grads are increasingly breaking apart into the upper and bottom 50%. The name alone is less reliable a gauge for competence and professionalism in the workplace.

The hardest and most competent workers in corp America are female grads of large state universities. They increasingly dominate. Many were in sororities.

The highest achieving in terms of generating revenues are still men, both white and South Asian.

You sound racist (since you think you can generalize about each group!)

And do you not hear the irony is saying women work the hardest but white men still make more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but a Caucasian White Male at a Top 25 is going up against diversity recruitment targets at these companies, so he would be at a disadvantage no matter what school he goes to. Are you sure that the kids landing the big jobs from Penn State for example aren’t connected and strings weren’t pulled for them? Regardless, I would advise your DS to adjust the companies / jobs he is targeting… aim for mid tier or niche consulting for example….or aim for locations outside of the key offices. And, if you have any contacts or family connections at all, now is the time to pull them. Lastly, The recruitment cycle for consulting and finance internships for summer 2024 are pretty much over, they hire 12-18 months in advance, so if he doesn’t have anything lined up for next summer, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan B

There aren’t diversity recruitment targets. Stop lying. Maybe with the federal government. With the private sector forget it.

Universities also have diversity target (for their employees). In fact, when you get accredited, they will rate both the diversity of your students AND faculty.