The deflated grading is just exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

I don’t understand why they don’t just curve the class as a college would curve it. Look at the standard deviation and award As, Bs and Cs on a bell curve.

In this instance a 75 would be a B and probably 85+ would be an A.

If you want…give the 98 an A+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience (3 kids) I think what happens in part is that these schools grade to the smartest kid in the room and then curve down accordingly. For instance, there will be one kid (or a handful) in sophomore English who can write an essay worthy of a senior seminar class in a college English class. So there are your As. And the grades go down from that. The kids who are just "very good writers" and turn in "very good for a sophomore in high school" level work get a B.

It's the same in math. My kid is currently in math class beyond calculus. She has a perfect math SAT score. She's good at math but this class is HARD. The average on tests is about a 75. But there is always one kid who manages to get a 98. So there goes any curve or corrections. There is your A. And everyone goes down from there.

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

In theory what you describe makes sense but the grading in math, science, English and history courses at many of the competitive schools is not black and white. There is truly nothing to distinguish an A in these classes, the rubrics are built to be extremely opaque and grading (if the child even gets them back in a timely fashion) seems to be entirely subjective. I don’t object to a teachers right to teach a class as they see fit, but when students call out inconsistent grading and the teacher can’t provide a legitimate reason or the students are labeled as grade chasers (and in some cases see their subsequent grade go down) then it needs to be addressed. Sadly the latter outcome forces students to stop speaking up and suffer through the class. But go teachers!

[Anonymous]

Why you all feel Maret is easier? I guess you all don’t have kids in Maret. There is a history teacher and an English teacher who told his students openly, the best score they will have is A-, and only one or two might get that. Rest will be B or lower.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I have to say, these responses are SHOCKING! I am looking to apply my daughter for K at a private school and the parental responses here are the reasons I am turned off by the prospect of a "big three". These are CHILDREN we are talking about- what, exactly, are you trying to prepare them for with 4 hours of homework a night and then a repeatedly discouraging experience in school? School should teach kids, of ALL ages, to love learning, to be intellectually curious, to problem solve and to work hard, but what the OP is describing here is extremely sad and disheartening to me.

For the record, I was a lifer at a big three school and did not feel this level of intense pressure- perhaps others did. I was not in all advanced classes, but I went to a great college, was extremely prepared and have a great career. It absolutely does NOT have to be this way, and it's the parents who buy into this level of intensity for their 16 year olds that make it so. Sheesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I have to say, these responses are SHOCKING! I am looking to apply my daughter for K at a private school and the parental responses here are the reasons I am turned off by the prospect of a "big three".

These schools, both from personal experience at one and having friends at the others, are usually much more nurturing from PK/K through 8th grade. So none of this supposed parade of horribles will even be relevant for your daughter for quite a long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know what other schools or districts do in these cases when you have a few extreme outliers. The kids at these top privates are almost all very strong students and were admitted to the private (most of them) because they were at the top at their sending schools. But in each subject there tend to be few kids who is outlandishly gifted. And then they scoop up the 2 As in that class.

In theory what you describe makes sense but the grading in math, science, English and history courses at many of the competitive schools is not black and white. There is truly nothing to distinguish an A in these classes, the rubrics are built to be extremely opaque and grading (if the child even gets them back in a timely fashion) seems to be entirely subjective. I don’t object to a teachers right to teach a class as they see fit, but when students call out inconsistent grading and the teacher can’t provide a legitimate reason or the students are labeled as grade chasers (and in some cases see their subsequent grade go down) then it needs to be addressed. Sadly the latter outcome forces students to stop speaking up and suffer through the class. But go teachers!

I'm sorry, "grade chasers" is an absolutely nuts insult. Of course they care about the grade. They want to go to college! It isn't 1983 anymore, where you can get into Columbia with a transcript with five C's from NCS or STA. There was an era where these elite prep schools could deflate grades just to instill humility into their students but rest assured the Ivy League would still admit them because of their exceptional preparation. That era ended over 20 years ago.

A 3.3 GPA from these schools is treated the same as a public school by admissions officers now. There is no more prep school "bounce". Now that universities are test optional, GPA is so much more important than it was 25 years ago.

The issue with these prep schools is that they still operate like it's 1983 and that the counselors can "work the phone" to place 5 students into Harvard, Yale, Princeton each and then let the slackers with 3.1 GPAs end up at Penn, Dartmouth, or Duke.

Top private schools are not only hurting your kids with grade deflation, attending one is seen as a negative nowadays because universities care about social justice more than anything else, and these elite private schools signal economic privilege.

[Anonymous]

This is correct.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3. Junior year.
The deflated grading feels worse than ever this year and is just exhausting. My kid does homework for 4 hours per night. Some nights it's even more.
Goes in and takes exams. Averages on a recent math exam: 70. Average on a recent science exam: 65. Average on a recent history exam: 85.
Doing well just seems impossible, stress is so high. There are no retakes, no curving, etc. We know from experience that a few kids will end eek their way up to a 90% with lab reports, quizzes, perhaps a better second test. My kid is among these. But many won't. They'll get a straight B or B- in the class even with maximum effort. And then a 5 on the AP exam.
In some classes only 1 or 2 kids will end up above a 90. There is just so much stress and I don't understand why it has to be this hard.
Why take a cohort of very bright, very hardworking kids and then give a straight B as the average (and a tiny handful of low A's across the grade?) It's just exhausting.
I'm not sure what the point it. College admissions aren't even that great--colleges are no longer buying this "a 3.5 is a good GPA!" line.
It's just too far out of the norm of what every other type of school is doing.

Do you really think you’re going to change things now you’re already partway into junior year. It’s not going to change live and learn I guess.

NP. We learned after older kid dealt with the big3 deflated GPA and college admissions in the 2022-2023 TO world. Younger kid just started 9th at a “second tier” private school. Getting As and working hard (but appropriately hard). Grades are weighted for honors and AP (yes, they have AP classes!) and test retakes allowed. I feel like sending my older kid to a big3 for high school was my biggest parenting mistake. Way too much stress and college admission results were not commiserate with effort and ability. Live and learn.

For these parents, we’re thinking about moving our younger out as well. What ‘second tier’ private would you suggest?

Honestly, I am just calling them 2nd tier to differentiate them on DCUM from Sidwell and Cathedral schools. My kid is at one of these 2nd tier schools and we have been really impressed. We have had kids at Sidwell/Cathedral as well. I would look closely at Visitation, Gonzaga, Burke, SJC scholars program and Madeira. We aren’t in Maryland, but if we were I would look at Bullis and St. Andrews.

I would also add Field and Maret as 2nd tier. I have one at a Big 3 and another at one of these and it works for our family. One of our kids would NOT do well or even feel well at the Big 3 my son is at.

Very helpful. Where would you put gds on this list?

GDS is Big3 and also pretty high stress. A bit less toxic than NCS and Sidwell but probably not by much---probably more like STA (which in my experience is quite a bit gentler than NCS).

The Big 3 is 3 schools - Sidwell, St. Albans, and NCS. STA and NCS are different schools completely and while in the same family they are separate schools run very differently. Big 3 was always those 3 schools. If it was Big 4 or Big 5 then GDS and Market would be added.

No dog in this fight, but your info is outdated. GDS is Big-3. And STA and NCS are not "completely" different schools--they share the Close, share some classes and some facilities. I'd put Maret, Holton, and Potomac in the next tier.

Big 3 is 3. You are mentioning 4. NCS and STA are on same campus but completely different schools and run by different HOS and have different boards. Sorry GDS is just not part of what has always been the Big 3. Doesn’t mean it is not a great schoool.

[Anonymous]

There is no grade deflation going on that I have heard of - sorry that your kids are not up to snuff. I have never heard of any school curving down the grades like people are describing here. I have seen teaching the course to the median student like described above, where the top students get A's, etc. Yeah, duh - that is literally how this works!

If your student is middle of the pack in the class, why would you expect them to get an A? If everyone got an A, the low end kids would have 90s and would still be at the bottom of the school. Better to compare students across a spectrum of 30% points rather than 10%. Your middle of the pack kid is not going to get into an Ivy regardless of the grading system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no grade deflation going on that I have heard of

Clearly you haven't read the threads where people are reporting that certain teachers at "Big 3"-type schools literally don't give out any As, and the best possible grade is A-/B+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no grade deflation going on that I have heard of

Clearly you haven't read the threads where people are reporting that certain teachers at "Big 3"-type schools literally don't give out any As, and the best possible grade is A-/B+.

Agree. This time year, it’s especially difficult to find a privates forum thread without parents complaining about deflation, hard teachers, all the disadvantages of attending a pricey school. Really cannot miss it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no grade deflation going on that I have heard of

Clearly you haven't read the threads where people are reporting that certain teachers at "Big 3"-type schools literally don't give out any As, and the best possible grade is A-/B+.

That is not grade deflation unless they are purposely curving down the grades after the fact. If those are the grades the students earned, I don't see any problem with it.

I do see a problem with a student earning a 97% and curving that down to a 93% because the teacher "does not give any A's"

Parents complain about everything under the sun on this forum - not all of it is worthwhile to complain about.

[Anonymous]

My upperclassman is in a class where an essay turned by last week had an average grade of an 82%. This is what I mean by grade deflation.

My kid spent at least 10 hours on this (a one page essay) and received the average (82%).

It's just ridiculous. The school admitted kids who were at the very top of their sending public and private schools, refined them by fire for 2+ years
years (in very difficult humanities and writing classes) and is now continues to say, "oh no, despite your very best effort, most of you can only write at a B- level." I have a different kid in a top public and this would have been a 98% there. The standard at the private is just beyond unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My upperclassman is in a class where an essay turned by last week had an average grade of an 82%. This is what I mean by grade deflation.

My kid spent at least 10 hours on this (a one page essay) and received the average (82%).

It's just ridiculous. The school admitted kids who were at the very top of their sending public and private schools, refined them by fire for 2+ years
years (in very difficult humanities and writing classes) and is now continues to say, "oh no, despite your very best effort, most of you can only write at a B- level." I have a different kid in a top public and this would have been a 98% there. The standard at the private is just beyond unreasonable.

You lost me with “a top public.” Sorry there is no comparison. There are no publics in this area that compare to privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My upperclassman is in a class where an essay turned by last week had an average grade of an 82%. This is what I mean by grade deflation.

My kid spent at least 10 hours on this (a one page essay) and received the average (82%).

It's just ridiculous. The school admitted kids who were at the very top of their sending public and private schools, refined them by fire for 2+ years
years (in very difficult humanities and writing classes) and is now continues to say, "oh no, despite your very best effort, most of you can only write at a B- level." I have a different kid in a top public and this would have been a 98% there. The standard at the private is just beyond unreasonable.

How long your student spends on something is completely irrelevant to the grade as I am sure you can understand. Does any supervisor you have ever had care about how long something took you or the quality of the work?