I find it annoying when people get on here and say it really doesn't matter where your kid goes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but it doesn’t matter. It matters to the the overbearing helicopter parent that wear their kid’s college brand like a designer handbag and that we will be directionless and aimless when DC leaves the nest. But for your kid, their employer will care that they went to school but not where. The exception, of course, is on both extremes. If they go to a top 5-7 school, great, they get bonus points (except for the many employers that specifically don’t want someone with those credentials because they tend to believe that they are entitled to an accelerated journey). On the other extreme, if they went to an online school or a super esoteric school, there better be a good reason.

Other than that, schools #7-150 or so are completely interchangeable in the real world.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree that this applies to everyone. The assumption that wealth & eduction correlates with Middle class white culture is so off-putting. I'm asian and a child of immigrants- I've seen way too many successful lives destroyed by events that would never be life 'destroyers' for their white peers b/c of a lack of exposure to ideas/UMC ways of doing things and confidence. The difference that going to a top ten law school would make for my kid even though their parents are lawyers will be much much bigger than it is for your kids and there are plenty of immigrants, brown and black people and even first generation college grad white posters here and we know better than you how social mobility works b/c its something we have experienced for ourselves, not just read about in the Atlantic and VOX. I've seen first hand the difference in girls who go to George mason vs. even UVA/George Washington and what they've gone on to do with their lives. Exposure to a wider set of possibilities and the self concept that you are one of the ppl who should be applying to post docs at Magdalen college and MS at LSE and opening businesses with friends you met at NYU Beijing are vastly different than a fed contractor driving to target and their home in Burke with no USAID/FSO posting in sight day after miserable day. Many ppl on here have benefited from their superior merit and work ethic and want make sure that their kids move that one rung up to having even more choices and possibilities when their grandparents struggled and sacrificed. That is what ppl move here for, if I wanted to keep treading water, my father should've stayed home and not left his family and everyone he held dear.

+1
AMEN!!

Thank you. It is nerve wrecking to have discussions on this board because the majority lack basic knowledge about the experiences of immigrants especially brown and black people.

+1 have to agree. I'm a child of uneducated immigrants, and I went to a no name state u. I think if I had gone to a "better" school, it would've broadened my horizons, and I could've achieved a lot more.

that's not to say that I don't have a great life. I have a umc life, and I'm thankful for it. I eventually ended up at a FAANG. But, going to no name state u meant that I did not have that exposure and network to venture out more.

You don't have to go to a T10 to get that kind of exposure and experience, but where you go can and, often times, does impact the trajectory of your career.

+1000

Anyone who's in denial about the fact that where you go to college matters is just delusional. There was that study showing that the top 1% is disproportionately dominated by elite colleges.

Going to an elite college matters, full stop

The 1% buy their way into those colleges. Jared Kushner, Donald Trump, George W. Bush, and a bazillion other failsons are Ivy league educated because their parents bought their way in.
There are some success stories like Bill Gates, but there are similiar stories for strong state universities like UVA or Illinois or UW or Michigan.

The average Ivy League degree is worth about $100,000 to $200,000 increase in LIFETIME earnings over the average lifetime earnings of any 4 year graduate. That's not that much money over a 40-50 year career.

There are some careers where Ivy League is super important - government, law (especially if you want a high profile judicial appointment), and media. But for the rest of the world, it just doesn't matter.

Not true! Important for finance and consulting as well.

and medicine and academics...

the list goes on...

It matters where you go to law school or medical school or grad school for those fields. Undergrad doesn't matter much at all. It's a whole other application process and applicants are accepted from every undergraduate program. My very mediocre undergrad school regularly placed (very middle class) kids into T14 law schools and into T10 medical schools and top graduate programs.

Maybe it’s just me…but more often than not, when I look up the education of my Georgetown specialists they graduate from some completely random medical schools.

I don’t really understand the “business” of medicine so maybe it is different for plastic surgeons or orthopedists.

It's not just you. PP doesn't know what they're talking about. Just look at any very large group of highly regarded physicians (Mayo Clinic/Hopkins, etc.) or attorneys and you'll find a wide variety of medical schools.

A handful of law firms (and investment firms) are snobby about degrees, but the vast majority of even highly-ranked firms care more about getting the best attorneys (or analysts/quants) than getting framed diplomas that look impressive.

In academia, the 'elite' colleges seem to care but no one else does because it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As always, it depends.

If you want to get into an elite career or grad school program, college rankings absolutely matter.

If you're like the other 95% of college students who just want a decent middle class job, most colleges will do the trick just fine.

There is absolutely zero evidence to support your statement about getting into grad school.

And what exactly is your idea of an elite career?

[Anonymous]

I find it super annoying when you ask us to tell you where your kid is going to go or to rank random schools.

[Anonymous]

How many employers do you think really digest the rankings? And if they do, which of the 100 different rankings do they memorize?

Colleges fall into three categories:

1. HPYSM
2. Schools that raise questions about why you went there, whether the degree is “real” and what kind of employee you would be.
3. Everything in between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but it doesn’t matter. It matters to the the overbearing helicopter parent that wear their kid’s college brand like a designer handbag and that we will be directionless and aimless when DC leaves the nest. But for your kid, their employer will care that they went to school but not where. The exception, of course, is on both extremes. If they go to a top 5-7 school, great, they get bonus points (except for the many employers that specifically don’t want someone with those credentials because they tend to believe that they are entitled to an accelerated journey). On the other extreme, if they went to an online school or a super esoteric school, there better be a good reason.

Other than that, schools #7-150 or so are completely interchangeable in the real world.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree that this applies to everyone. The assumption that wealth & eduction correlates with Middle class white culture is so off-putting. I'm asian and a child of immigrants- I've seen way too many successful lives destroyed by events that would never be life 'destroyers' for their white peers b/c of a lack of exposure to ideas/UMC ways of doing things and confidence. The difference that going to a top ten law school would make for my kid even though their parents are lawyers will be much much bigger than it is for your kids and there are plenty of immigrants, brown and black people and even first generation college grad white posters here and we know better than you how social mobility works b/c its something we have experienced for ourselves, not just read about in the Atlantic and VOX. I've seen first hand the difference in girls who go to George mason vs. even UVA/George Washington and what they've gone on to do with their lives. Exposure to a wider set of possibilities and the self concept that you are one of the ppl who should be applying to post docs at Magdalen college and MS at LSE and opening businesses with friends you met at NYU Beijing are vastly different than a fed contractor driving to target and their home in Burke with no USAID/FSO posting in sight day after miserable day. Many ppl on here have benefited from their superior merit and work ethic and want make sure that their kids move that one rung up to having even more choices and possibilities when their grandparents struggled and sacrificed. That is what ppl move here for, if I wanted to keep treading water, my father should've stayed home and not left his family and everyone he held dear.

You are so wrong. People don’t define themselves at age 18, and where you go to undergrad doesn’t dictate who you are. Trust me, Harvard doesn’t have a lock on sophistication, international kids are everywhere, study abroad or any number of experiences can be life changing. Kid should go where they feel optimistic, good about what they are doing and excited for the future. This may very well not be some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to.

No. You're totally wrong.

There have been several immigrant/POC posters on this thread saying that going to an Ivy changed our lives. There are studies out there showing that going to an elite college MATTERS for first-gen/low-income/URM kids.

You denying this is a great example of your white privilege.

And BTW, writing off HYPSM as "some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to" is clearly just you coping as a mediocre state school grad. That wasn't my experience at all at Stanford.

[Anonymous]

I work in IT consulting at a large, well known company. Virtually none of my colleagues have gone to graduate school, including the directors making $500k+. None. However, for entry level recruits, school name absolutely matters. A graduate from a top school is recruited for client facing management consulting. Candidates from lesser ranked schools are recruited for back office roles, a totally different career path. The prestigious school gets you access to clients, contacts in those organizations, and opportunities to grow your career. Back office roles are just processing invoices or negotiating subcontracts for 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but it doesn’t matter. It matters to the the overbearing helicopter parent that wear their kid’s college brand like a designer handbag and that we will be directionless and aimless when DC leaves the nest. But for your kid, their employer will care that they went to school but not where. The exception, of course, is on both extremes. If they go to a top 5-7 school, great, they get bonus points (except for the many employers that specifically don’t want someone with those credentials because they tend to believe that they are entitled to an accelerated journey). On the other extreme, if they went to an online school or a super esoteric school, there better be a good reason.

Other than that, schools #7-150 or so are completely interchangeable in the real world.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree that this applies to everyone. The assumption that wealth & eduction correlates with Middle class white culture is so off-putting. I'm asian and a child of immigrants- I've seen way too many successful lives destroyed by events that would never be life 'destroyers' for their white peers b/c of a lack of exposure to ideas/UMC ways of doing things and confidence. The difference that going to a top ten law school would make for my kid even though their parents are lawyers will be much much bigger than it is for your kids and there are plenty of immigrants, brown and black people and even first generation college grad white posters here and we know better than you how social mobility works b/c its something we have experienced for ourselves, not just read about in the Atlantic and VOX. I've seen first hand the difference in girls who go to George mason vs. even UVA/George Washington and what they've gone on to do with their lives. Exposure to a wider set of possibilities and the self concept that you are one of the ppl who should be applying to post docs at Magdalen college and MS at LSE and opening businesses with friends you met at NYU Beijing are vastly different than a fed contractor driving to target and their home in Burke with no USAID/FSO posting in sight day after miserable day. Many ppl on here have benefited from their superior merit and work ethic and want make sure that their kids move that one rung up to having even more choices and possibilities when their grandparents struggled and sacrificed. That is what ppl move here for, if I wanted to keep treading water, my father should've stayed home and not left his family and everyone he held dear.

You are so wrong. People don’t define themselves at age 18, and where you go to undergrad doesn’t dictate who you are. Trust me, Harvard doesn’t have a lock on sophistication, international kids are everywhere, study abroad or any number of experiences can be life changing. Kid should go where they feel optimistic, good about what they are doing and excited for the future. This may very well not be some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to.

No. You're totally wrong.

There have been several immigrant/POC posters on this thread saying that going to an Ivy changed our lives. There are studies out there showing that going to an elite college MATTERS for first-gen/low-income/URM kids.

You denying this is a great example of your white privilege.

And BTW, writing off HYPSM as "some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to" is clearly just you coping as a mediocre state school grad. That wasn't my experience at all at Stanford.

OK. You win. Where you go doesn't matter for the largest group of kids (white kids, UMC kids) but for URM and immigrant kids, it can make a difference. Grind away. Be terrified that if you don't get into HYPSM, you should just give up on success and are doomed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but it doesn’t matter. It matters to the the overbearing helicopter parent that wear their kid’s college brand like a designer handbag and that we will be directionless and aimless when DC leaves the nest. But for your kid, their employer will care that they went to school but not where. The exception, of course, is on both extremes. If they go to a top 5-7 school, great, they get bonus points (except for the many employers that specifically don’t want someone with those credentials because they tend to believe that they are entitled to an accelerated journey). On the other extreme, if they went to an online school or a super esoteric school, there better be a good reason.

Other than that, schools #7-150 or so are completely interchangeable in the real world.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree that this applies to everyone. The assumption that wealth & eduction correlates with Middle class white culture is so off-putting. I'm asian and a child of immigrants- I've seen way too many successful lives destroyed by events that would never be life 'destroyers' for their white peers b/c of a lack of exposure to ideas/UMC ways of doing things and confidence. The difference that going to a top ten law school would make for my kid even though their parents are lawyers will be much much bigger than it is for your kids and there are plenty of immigrants, brown and black people and even first generation college grad white posters here and we know better than you how social mobility works b/c its something we have experienced for ourselves, not just read about in the Atlantic and VOX. I've seen first hand the difference in girls who go to George mason vs. even UVA/George Washington and what they've gone on to do with their lives. Exposure to a wider set of possibilities and the self concept that you are one of the ppl who should be applying to post docs at Magdalen college and MS at LSE and opening businesses with friends you met at NYU Beijing are vastly different than a fed contractor driving to target and their home in Burke with no USAID/FSO posting in sight day after miserable day. Many ppl on here have benefited from their superior merit and work ethic and want make sure that their kids move that one rung up to having even more choices and possibilities when their grandparents struggled and sacrificed. That is what ppl move here for, if I wanted to keep treading water, my father should've stayed home and not left his family and everyone he held dear.

You are so wrong. People don’t define themselves at age 18, and where you go to undergrad doesn’t dictate who you are. Trust me, Harvard doesn’t have a lock on sophistication, international kids are everywhere, study abroad or any number of experiences can be life changing. Kid should go where they feel optimistic, good about what they are doing and excited for the future. This may very well not be some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to.

No. You're totally wrong.

There have been several immigrant/POC posters on this thread saying that going to an Ivy changed our lives. There are studies out there showing that going to an elite college MATTERS for first-gen/low-income/URM kids.

You denying this is a great example of your white privilege.

And BTW, writing off HYPSM as "some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to" is clearly just you coping as a mediocre state school grad. That wasn't my experience at all at Stanford.

Those who claim the college they went to changed their lives ignore the very high likelihood that another, even less-selective college would have changed their life for the positive the same amount or even more. It's a common misconception that the college matters a lot, when the reality is that each individual's success is by far influenced by their own efforts more than the school they attend.

The study I assume you're referencing is probably Kruger and Dale, which says there is a very small advantage financially to first-gen and low-income students. The URMs they refer to are Black and Hispanic students.

I do agree with you that there's no need to denigrate colleges that are obviously fabulous, although they are sometimes not the best match for those who covet them the most. There's also no need to get nasty about state schools, which can also be amazing places. It's quite possible one of those 'mediocre' state schools would have set you on the same path that it sounds like you're enjoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in IT consulting at a large, well known company. Virtually none of my colleagues have gone to graduate school, including the directors making $500k+. None. However, for entry level recruits, school name absolutely matters. A graduate from a top school is recruited for client facing management consulting. Candidates from lesser ranked schools are recruited for back office roles, a totally different career path. The prestigious school gets you access to clients, contacts in those organizations, and opportunities to grow your career. Back office roles are just processing invoices or negotiating subcontracts for 20 years.

I doubt the company you work at is making decisions the way you think they are. If they are, then they're not making the best decisions they could. In IT especially, there are an enormous number of very qualified candidates coming from state schools. Placing someone in a specific position based on the name on their degree is very short-sighted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but it doesn’t matter. It matters to the the overbearing helicopter parent that wear their kid’s college brand like a designer handbag and that we will be directionless and aimless when DC leaves the nest. But for your kid, their employer will care that they went to school but not where. The exception, of course, is on both extremes. If they go to a top 5-7 school, great, they get bonus points (except for the many employers that specifically don’t want someone with those credentials because they tend to believe that they are entitled to an accelerated journey). On the other extreme, if they went to an online school or a super esoteric school, there better be a good reason.

Other than that, schools #7-150 or so are completely interchangeable in the real world.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree that this applies to everyone. The assumption that wealth & eduction correlates with Middle class white culture is so off-putting. I'm asian and a child of immigrants- I've seen way too many successful lives destroyed by events that would never be life 'destroyers' for their white peers b/c of a lack of exposure to ideas/UMC ways of doing things and confidence. The difference that going to a top ten law school would make for my kid even though their parents are lawyers will be much much bigger than it is for your kids and there are plenty of immigrants, brown and black people and even first generation college grad white posters here and we know better than you how social mobility works b/c its something we have experienced for ourselves, not just read about in the Atlantic and VOX. I've seen first hand the difference in girls who go to George mason vs. even UVA/George Washington and what they've gone on to do with their lives. Exposure to a wider set of possibilities and the self concept that you are one of the ppl who should be applying to post docs at Magdalen college and MS at LSE and opening businesses with friends you met at NYU Beijing are vastly different than a fed contractor driving to target and their home in Burke with no USAID/FSO posting in sight day after miserable day. Many ppl on here have benefited from their superior merit and work ethic and want make sure that their kids move that one rung up to having even more choices and possibilities when their grandparents struggled and sacrificed. That is what ppl move here for, if I wanted to keep treading water, my father should've stayed home and not left his family and everyone he held dear.

You are so wrong. People don’t define themselves at age 18, and where you go to undergrad doesn’t dictate who you are. Trust me, Harvard doesn’t have a lock on sophistication, international kids are everywhere, study abroad or any number of experiences can be life changing. Kid should go where they feel optimistic, good about what they are doing and excited for the future. This may very well not be some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to.

No. You're totally wrong.

There have been several immigrant/POC posters on this thread saying that going to an Ivy changed our lives. There are studies out there showing that going to an elite college MATTERS for first-gen/low-income/URM kids.

You denying this is a great example of your white privilege.

And BTW, writing off HYPSM as "some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to" is clearly just you coping as a mediocre state school grad. That wasn't my experience at all at Stanford.

Those who claim the college they went to changed their lives ignore the very high likelihood that another, even less-selective college would have changed their life for the positive the same amount or even more. It's a common misconception that the college matters a lot, when the reality is that each individual's success is by far influenced by their own efforts more than the school they attend.

The study I assume you're referencing is probably Kruger and Dale, which says there is a very small advantage financially to first-gen and low-income students. The URMs they refer to are Black and Hispanic students.

I do agree with you that there's no need to denigrate colleges that are obviously fabulous, although they are sometimes not the best match for those who covet them the most. There's also no need to get nasty about state schools, which can also be amazing places. It's quite possible one of those 'mediocre' state schools would have set you on the same path that it sounds like you're enjoying.

Dale and Krueger is not the study they are referring…that study supports your view.

There was a more recent study released with the last couple of months that seems to support the “elite school” theory. Part of that study tracked kids that were admitted to a top school off the waitlist vs those that did not. Supposedly the admitted kids had better outcomes compared to the kids that did not come off the waitlist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but it doesn’t matter. It matters to the the overbearing helicopter parent that wear their kid’s college brand like a designer handbag and that we will be directionless and aimless when DC leaves the nest. But for your kid, their employer will care that they went to school but not where. The exception, of course, is on both extremes. If they go to a top 5-7 school, great, they get bonus points (except for the many employers that specifically don’t want someone with those credentials because they tend to believe that they are entitled to an accelerated journey). On the other extreme, if they went to an online school or a super esoteric school, there better be a good reason.

Other than that, schools #7-150 or so are completely interchangeable in the real world.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree that this applies to everyone. The assumption that wealth & eduction correlates with Middle class white culture is so off-putting. I'm asian and a child of immigrants- I've seen way too many successful lives destroyed by events that would never be life 'destroyers' for their white peers b/c of a lack of exposure to ideas/UMC ways of doing things and confidence. The difference that going to a top ten law school would make for my kid even though their parents are lawyers will be much much bigger than it is for your kids and there are plenty of immigrants, brown and black people and even first generation college grad white posters here and we know better than you how social mobility works b/c its something we have experienced for ourselves, not just read about in the Atlantic and VOX. I've seen first hand the difference in girls who go to George mason vs. even UVA/George Washington and what they've gone on to do with their lives. Exposure to a wider set of possibilities and the self concept that you are one of the ppl who should be applying to post docs at Magdalen college and MS at LSE and opening businesses with friends you met at NYU Beijing are vastly different than a fed contractor driving to target and their home in Burke with no USAID/FSO posting in sight day after miserable day. Many ppl on here have benefited from their superior merit and work ethic and want make sure that their kids move that one rung up to having even more choices and possibilities when their grandparents struggled and sacrificed. That is what ppl move here for, if I wanted to keep treading water, my father should've stayed home and not left his family and everyone he held dear.

You are so wrong. People don’t define themselves at age 18, and where you go to undergrad doesn’t dictate who you are. Trust me, Harvard doesn’t have a lock on sophistication, international kids are everywhere, study abroad or any number of experiences can be life changing. Kid should go where they feel optimistic, good about what they are doing and excited for the future. This may very well not be some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to.

No. You're totally wrong.

There have been several immigrant/POC posters on this thread saying that going to an Ivy changed our lives. There are studies out there showing that going to an elite college MATTERS for first-gen/low-income/URM kids.

You denying this is a great example of your white privilege.

And BTW, writing off HYPSM as "some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to" is clearly just you coping as a mediocre state school grad. That wasn't my experience at all at Stanford.

Those who claim the college they went to changed their lives ignore the very high likelihood that another, even less-selective college would have changed their life for the positive the same amount or even more. It's a common misconception that the college matters a lot, when the reality is that each individual's success is by far influenced by their own efforts more than the school they attend.

The study I assume you're referencing is probably Kruger and Dale, which says there is a very small advantage financially to first-gen and low-income students. The URMs they refer to are Black and Hispanic students.

I do agree with you that there's no need to denigrate colleges that are obviously fabulous, although they are sometimes not the best match for those who covet them the most. There's also no need to get nasty about state schools, which can also be amazing places. It's quite possible one of those 'mediocre' state schools would have set you on the same path that it sounds like you're enjoying.

Dale and Krueger is not the study they are referring…that study supports your view.

There was a more recent study released with the last couple of months that seems to support the “elite school” theory. Part of that study tracked kids that were admitted to a top school off the waitlist vs those that did not. Supposedly the admitted kids had better outcomes compared to the kids that did not come off the waitlist.

Okay, so the Raj Chetty study.

a) I believe it has not yet been published in a peer-reviewed journal, which is not true of Dale and Kruger.

b) The Chetty study states that it actually agrees with Dale/Kruger, except they say you're more likely to land in the top 1% if you attend an Ivy+ college. So if they're right and you feel the need to earn over $400k a year in order to be happy (as opposed to say $350k) then it might make some difference.

c) In the Dale and Kruger study, those who attended an elite school were compared with those who were also accepted at an elite school but CHOSE to attend a less selective school. This was not true in the Chetty study, and it makes a difference.

d) Ivy+ schools admit students at least partially on the basis of their likelihood of entering the top 1% of earners, and this is even more true of their wait list, which is what Chetty studied.

e) the school climate (not necessarily the school itself, though) at Ivy+ schools encourages students to pursue careers that will earn them obscene amounts of money more so than other colleges, which likely influenced the results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but it doesn’t matter. It matters to the the overbearing helicopter parent that wear their kid’s college brand like a designer handbag and that we will be directionless and aimless when DC leaves the nest. But for your kid, their employer will care that they went to school but not where. The exception, of course, is on both extremes. If they go to a top 5-7 school, great, they get bonus points (except for the many employers that specifically don’t want someone with those credentials because they tend to believe that they are entitled to an accelerated journey). On the other extreme, if they went to an online school or a super esoteric school, there better be a good reason.

Other than that, schools #7-150 or so are completely interchangeable in the real world.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree that this applies to everyone. The assumption that wealth & eduction correlates with Middle class white culture is so off-putting. I'm asian and a child of immigrants- I've seen way too many successful lives destroyed by events that would never be life 'destroyers' for their white peers b/c of a lack of exposure to ideas/UMC ways of doing things and confidence. The difference that going to a top ten law school would make for my kid even though their parents are lawyers will be much much bigger than it is for your kids and there are plenty of immigrants, brown and black people and even first generation college grad white posters here and we know better than you how social mobility works b/c its something we have experienced for ourselves, not just read about in the Atlantic and VOX. I've seen first hand the difference in girls who go to George mason vs. even UVA/George Washington and what they've gone on to do with their lives. Exposure to a wider set of possibilities and the self concept that you are one of the ppl who should be applying to post docs at Magdalen college and MS at LSE and opening businesses with friends you met at NYU Beijing are vastly different than a fed contractor driving to target and their home in Burke with no USAID/FSO posting in sight day after miserable day. Many ppl on here have benefited from their superior merit and work ethic and want make sure that their kids move that one rung up to having even more choices and possibilities when their grandparents struggled and sacrificed. That is what ppl move here for, if I wanted to keep treading water, my father should've stayed home and not left his family and everyone he held dear.

You are so wrong. People don’t define themselves at age 18, and where you go to undergrad doesn’t dictate who you are. Trust me, Harvard doesn’t have a lock on sophistication, international kids are everywhere, study abroad or any number of experiences can be life changing. Kid should go where they feel optimistic, good about what they are doing and excited for the future. This may very well not be some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to.

No. You're totally wrong.

There have been several immigrant/POC posters on this thread saying that going to an Ivy changed our lives. There are studies out there showing that going to an elite college MATTERS for first-gen/low-income/URM kids.

You denying this is a great example of your white privilege.

And BTW, writing off HYPSM as "some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to" is clearly just you coping as a mediocre state school grad. That wasn't my experience at all at Stanford.

Those who claim the college they went to changed their lives ignore the very high likelihood that another, even less-selective college would have changed their life for the positive the same amount or even more. It's a common misconception that the college matters a lot, when the reality is that each individual's success is by far influenced by their own efforts more than the school they attend.

The study I assume you're referencing is probably Kruger and Dale, which says there is a very small advantage financially to first-gen and low-income students. The URMs they refer to are Black and Hispanic students.

I do agree with you that there's no need to denigrate colleges that are obviously fabulous, although they are sometimes not the best match for those who covet them the most. There's also no need to get nasty about state schools, which can also be amazing places. It's quite possible one of those 'mediocre' state schools would have set you on the same path that it sounds like you're enjoying.

PP actually doesn’t sound like they are enjoying their Stanford path. In fact, they seem overly defensive and insecure, maybe as they felt HYPSM was their only option. First-gen may be under the misconception that where you go to undergrad is critically important because in some countries it truly is and really dictates your job and financial opportunities. In the U.S., this isn’t as strong and there are a lot of super successful people from lower ranked schools (just look at any Big Law partner list, there are always a number of very mediocre undergrads for highly respected lawyers).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but it doesn’t matter. It matters to the the overbearing helicopter parent that wear their kid’s college brand like a designer handbag and that we will be directionless and aimless when DC leaves the nest. But for your kid, their employer will care that they went to school but not where. The exception, of course, is on both extremes. If they go to a top 5-7 school, great, they get bonus points (except for the many employers that specifically don’t want someone with those credentials because they tend to believe that they are entitled to an accelerated journey). On the other extreme, if they went to an online school or a super esoteric school, there better be a good reason.

Other than that, schools #7-150 or so are completely interchangeable in the real world.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree that this applies to everyone. The assumption that wealth & eduction correlates with Middle class white culture is so off-putting. I'm asian and a child of immigrants- I've seen way too many successful lives destroyed by events that would never be life 'destroyers' for their white peers b/c of a lack of exposure to ideas/UMC ways of doing things and confidence. The difference that going to a top ten law school would make for my kid even though their parents are lawyers will be much much bigger than it is for your kids and there are plenty of immigrants, brown and black people and even first generation college grad white posters here and we know better than you how social mobility works b/c its something we have experienced for ourselves, not just read about in the Atlantic and VOX. I've seen first hand the difference in girls who go to George mason vs. even UVA/George Washington and what they've gone on to do with their lives. Exposure to a wider set of possibilities and the self concept that you are one of the ppl who should be applying to post docs at Magdalen college and MS at LSE and opening businesses with friends you met at NYU Beijing are vastly different than a fed contractor driving to target and their home in Burke with no USAID/FSO posting in sight day after miserable day. Many ppl on here have benefited from their superior merit and work ethic and want make sure that their kids move that one rung up to having even more choices and possibilities when their grandparents struggled and sacrificed. That is what ppl move here for, if I wanted to keep treading water, my father should've stayed home and not left his family and everyone he held dear.

You are so wrong. People don’t define themselves at age 18, and where you go to undergrad doesn’t dictate who you are. Trust me, Harvard doesn’t have a lock on sophistication, international kids are everywhere, study abroad or any number of experiences can be life changing. Kid should go where they feel optimistic, good about what they are doing and excited for the future. This may very well not be some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to.

No. You're totally wrong.

There have been several immigrant/POC posters on this thread saying that going to an Ivy changed our lives. There are studies out there showing that going to an elite college MATTERS for first-gen/low-income/URM kids.

You denying this is a great example of your white privilege.

And BTW, writing off HYPSM as "some hyper-competitive environment where people are valued by who they or their parents are or what they are entitled to" is clearly just you coping as a mediocre state school grad. That wasn't my experience at all at Stanford.

Those who claim the college they went to changed their lives ignore the very high likelihood that another, even less-selective college would have changed their life for the positive the same amount or even more. It's a common misconception that the college matters a lot, when the reality is that each individual's success is by far influenced by their own efforts more than the school they attend.

The study I assume you're referencing is probably Kruger and Dale, which says there is a very small advantage financially to first-gen and low-income students. The URMs they refer to are Black and Hispanic students.

I do agree with you that there's no need to denigrate colleges that are obviously fabulous, although they are sometimes not the best match for those who covet them the most. There's also no need to get nasty about state schools, which can also be amazing places. It's quite possible one of those 'mediocre' state schools would have set you on the same path that it sounds like you're enjoying.

Dale and Krueger is not the study they are referring…that study supports your view.

There was a more recent study released with the last couple of months that seems to support the “elite school” theory. Part of that study tracked kids that were admitted to a top school off the waitlist vs those that did not. Supposedly the admitted kids had better outcomes compared to the kids that did not come off the waitlist.

Okay, so the Raj Chetty study.

a) I believe it has not yet been published in a peer-reviewed journal, which is not true of Dale and Kruger.

b) The Chetty study states that it actually agrees with Dale/Kruger, except they say you're more likely to land in the top 1% if you attend an Ivy+ college. So if they're right and you feel the need to earn over $400k a year in order to be happy (as opposed to say $350k) then it might make some difference.

c) In the Dale and Kruger study, those who attended an elite school were compared with those who were also accepted at an elite school but CHOSE to attend a less selective school. This was not true in the Chetty study, and it makes a difference.

d) Ivy+ schools admit students at least partially on the basis of their likelihood of entering the top 1% of earners, and this is even more true of their wait list, which is what Chetty studied.

e) the school climate (not necessarily the school itself, though) at Ivy+ schools encourages students to pursue careers that will earn them obscene amounts of money more so than other colleges, which likely influenced the results.

Great synopsis, thanks.

[Anonymous]

We say that RANK is not as important as many posters seem to believe.

Of course college is expensive and it is a formative period in a young adult’s development, so you want it to be worthwhile. Some of us think you ensure that through doing your homework and prioritizing fit, not pleasing the USNWR gods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We say that RANK is not as important as many posters seem to believe.

Of course college is expensive and it is a formative period in a young adult’s development, so you want it to be worthwhile. Some of us think you ensure that through doing your homework and prioritizing fit, not pleasing the USNWR gods.

That may be considered blasphemy here on this forum as many would sacrifice a lamb on the altar of the USNWR gods