Boundaries assessment update 2023

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With the way things are in the county with most of the poverty (and issues associated with poverty) being clustered in only certain areas, I’m not sure that any boundary change would be enough. I do think there are some changes (some of them aren’t even too painful!) they can make to relieve some specific overcrowding scenarios, but boundary changes can’t change the fact that Lewis HS is 63% FARMS, 25% ESOL, and very under-enrolled, because those are also the demographics of the neighborhoods that feed into the school. And no one wants bussing, kids don’t want an hour long bus ride across the county to go to a “better” school with kids they don’t even know.

Check again … some kids travel 14 miles to a school rather than a mile to the closer one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the way things are in the county with most of the poverty (and issues associated with poverty) being clustered in only certain areas, I’m not sure that any boundary change would be enough. I do think there are some changes (some of them aren’t even too painful!) they can make to relieve some specific overcrowding scenarios, but boundary changes can’t change the fact that Lewis HS is 63% FARMS, 25% ESOL, and very under-enrolled, because those are also the demographics of the neighborhoods that feed into the school. And no one wants bussing, kids don’t want an hour long bus ride across the county to go to a “better” school with kids they don’t even know.

Check again … some kids travel 14 miles to a school rather than a mile to the closer one.

That probably shouldn’t happen either but, unless we’re talking Mount Vernon/West Potomac, has not much to do with SES issues and more to do with overcrowding issues in the western part of the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is LLIV at all elementary schools (almost there already) remove AAP in middle schools.

LLIV in all middle schools should exist. Just eliminate the centers.

I’ve never understood why they allowed Carson to become such an AAP center behemoth when other middle schools like Franklin could have AAP.

Franklin has had a LLIV AAP program for about 10 years.

I'm new to the area zoned to Carson and I don't understand why if Franklin has AAP, students are allowed to go to Carson? I got so confused by seeing listings that said things like "X elementary, Franklin or Carson MS, Chantilly HS". We ended up buying a house that is Carson/Oakton and I also don't understand why we are zoned to a HS 30 minutes away when Chantilly and South Lakes are both 10 minutes away.

Well Oakton is a better school than South Lakes so no need to complain.

Oakton is a richer (not better) school than South Lakes. Teachers aren’t better at Oakton or Langley, they have kids whose parents do more supplementing because they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A whole county realignment is needed. Stop the patching. Reduce the number of IB High Schools in the eastern part of the county. IB seems to work better with several AP high schools nearby - Marshall and South Lakes are examples. That way they can have more robust programs. Make a decision about the new western high school and get it going.

Have you any idea of how complicated, complex, and disturbing this would be to the whole county? This would involve a massive fruitbasket turnover and would result in what would likely be some very poor decisions.

There are many reasons that students are assigned where they are and some boundaries look odd:
1. Keeping neighborhoods together. In some instances there are close schools on either side of neighborhoods.
2. Traffic patterns.
3. Community connections.
4. Most important: sizes of schools.

Do you really think this is just a matter of drawing circles around schools. If you do, I suggest you take a gander at Oakton and Madison. You might also consider Langley and McLean. Those are the obvious, because they are high schools, so let'[s consider middle schools: look at Carson and Franklin--just over a mile apart.

And, you seem to think this will resolve the issue of balancing the economic disparities in some schools. Please tell me how you are going to do that when there are very large sections of Fairfax County with far more disadvantaged students than others?

I think all on this thread would appreciate how you would do this. Why don't you begin for us by taking three high schools and showing us how you would do this?

Where did I say anything about balancing economic disparities? Taking three high schools in isolation is more of the same tweaking, we need an overall county plan. I am well aware of how close some schools are to each other in many parts of the county and this adds complexity.

The reason we need to do an overhaul is that problems are never really solved and everyone just kicks the can down the road. After decades of kicking the can, yes it will be a massive undertaking- but necessary or it will just get worse.

Start by setting overall goals, for example:
Reduce overcrowding
Reduce the number of buses needed
Reduce the number of split feeders - especially the ones where very few students are sent to a different school
Keep communities together…

While I would love a school size limitation, it won’t happen. The School Board set a goal of 2,000 students as the preferred size of a high school, and then just ignored it.

Add in your goals and we can start a list

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They won't move those Langley students to HHS- but not because of enrollment capacity. HHS is at 2300 students- with the recent renovation- capacity is 2500.
Move some from Langley to Herndon. Mclean to Langley. Could get 3 schools to similar enrollment and ease overcrowding at McLean and fill the under capacity at Langley- by #s- make sense.
Will never happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm making an offer on a house in the extreme north-western part of Langley HS district, near Seneca road. It's in the 7-1 grid of https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/medi...choolBoundaries.pdf. My son is in 1st grade currently, would prefer Cooper/Langley as schools.

Given where things are at, is there any intent by FCPS to move that part of Langley into Herndon HS, has that been proposed or discussed? I saw a comments to that in this thread, wondering if this was ever really entertained.

I mean, yes, sending the far northwestern part of the county back to Herndon HS boundaries is a thing that could happen. A PP alluded to it earlier in the thread, and then the Langley boundaries would absorb one of the ES in the McLean pyramid. But Herndon HS doesn’t have the capacity right now to absorb a whole additional ES into its boundaries. The MS seems to have more “room” because the capacity dashboard shows it with a number of modular/temporary classrooms, but those are unpopular and not meant to be long term solutions. And building the mythical western HS that could change boundaries at multiple schools is at least 10 years away from completion and probably longer than that. So if you have a current 1st/rising 2nd grader I wouldn’t worry too much about it at all.

Langley’s freshman class is significantly larger than the senior class— presumably due to the most recent boundary change and the grandfathering that comes with it.

When it all shakes out in a few years I wonder where McLean will be in terms of enrollment. Still over I am sure, but by how much?

Part of the reason Langley’s enrollment is growing has nothing to do with the 2021 boundary change with McLean and more to do with places like Great Falls getting more attractive again for working parents when many jobs went remote w/Covid.

Um... GF has *always* been attractive for working parent(s). Most people who live there work in Tysons, Reston, Chantilly, McLean, etc., or remotely. Not DC.

Snort. Great Falls was not always considered desirable. Maybe since you became aware of school issues, but not always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A whole county realignment is needed. Stop the patching. Reduce the number of IB High Schools in the eastern part of the county. IB seems to work better with several AP high schools nearby - Marshall and South Lakes are examples. That way they can have more robust programs. Make a decision about the new western high school and get it going.

Have you any idea of how complicated, complex, and disturbing this would be to the whole county? This would involve a massive fruitbasket turnover and would result in what would likely be some very poor decisions.

There are many reasons that students are assigned where they are and some boundaries look odd:
1. Keeping neighborhoods together. In some instances there are close schools on either side of neighborhoods.
2. Traffic patterns.
3. Community connections.
4. Most important: sizes of schools.

Do you really think this is just a matter of drawing circles around schools. If you do, I suggest you take a gander at Oakton and Madison. You might also consider Langley and McLean. Those are the obvious, because they are high schools, so let'[s consider middle schools: look at Carson and Franklin--just over a mile apart.

And, you seem to think this will resolve the issue of balancing the economic disparities in some schools. Please tell me how you are going to do that when there are very large sections of Fairfax County with far more disadvantaged students than others?

I think all on this thread would appreciate how you would do this. Why don't you begin for us by taking three high schools and showing us how you would do this?

Where did I say anything about balancing economic disparities? Taking three high schools in isolation is more of the same tweaking, we need an overall county plan. I am well aware of how close some schools are to each other in many parts of the county and this adds complexity.

The reason we need to do an overhaul is that problems are never really solved and everyone just kicks the can down the road. After decades of kicking the can, yes it will be a massive undertaking- but necessary or it will just get worse.

Start by setting overall goals, for example:
Reduce overcrowding
Reduce the number of buses needed
Reduce the number of split feeders - especially the ones where very few students are sent to a different school
Keep communities together…

While I would love a school size limitation, it won’t happen. The School Board set a goal of 2,000 students as the preferred size of a high school, and then just ignored it.

Add in your goals and we can start a list

Cap FARMs students below 40%. FCPS has said that's a tipping point beyond which schools fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They won't move those Langley students to HHS- but not because of enrollment capacity. HHS is at 2300 students- with the recent renovation- capacity is 2500.
Move some from Langley to Herndon. Mclean to Langley. Could get 3 schools to similar enrollment and ease overcrowding at McLean and fill the under capacity at Langley- by #s- make sense.
Will never happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm making an offer on a house in the extreme north-western part of Langley HS district, near Seneca road. It's in the 7-1 grid of https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/medi...choolBoundaries.pdf. My son is in 1st grade currently, would prefer Cooper/Langley as schools.

Given where things are at, is there any intent by FCPS to move that part of Langley into Herndon HS, has that been proposed or discussed? I saw a comments to that in this thread, wondering if this was ever really entertained.

I mean, yes, sending the far northwestern part of the county back to Herndon HS boundaries is a thing that could happen. A PP alluded to it earlier in the thread, and then the Langley boundaries would absorb one of the ES in the McLean pyramid. But Herndon HS doesn’t have the capacity right now to absorb a whole additional ES into its boundaries. The MS seems to have more “room” because the capacity dashboard shows it with a number of modular/temporary classrooms, but those are unpopular and not meant to be long term solutions. And building the mythical western HS that could change boundaries at multiple schools is at least 10 years away from completion and probably longer than that. So if you have a current 1st/rising 2nd grader I wouldn’t worry too much about it at all.

Langley’s freshman class is significantly larger than the senior class— presumably due to the most recent boundary change and the grandfathering that comes with it.

When it all shakes out in a few years I wonder where McLean will be in terms of enrollment. Still over I am sure, but by how much?

Part of the reason Langley’s enrollment is growing has nothing to do with the 2021 boundary change with McLean and more to do with places like Great Falls getting more attractive again for working parents when many jobs went remote w/Covid.

Um... GF has *always* been attractive for working parent(s). Most people who live there work in Tysons, Reston, Chantilly, McLean, etc., or remotely. Not DC.

Not saying otherwise, but regardless of where people’s jobs were based Covid led some people to place less emphasis on being close to those work places and more emphasis on bigger homes w/more space. It’s not a very controversial observation.

Precisely - It's why I closed on a house here, recognizing the need to drive children mostly across all of GF to get to Cooper/Langley.

But if they lop off the West end of GF and join it with Herndon HS - I'm getting out.

of course, white flight is your solution! FWIW you don’t need to be white to participate in white flight.

[Anonymous]

First — emotion needs to be removed from the equation. Plug in the parameters for goals into an optimization program.

Second — each district should consider itself as a unit. Within that unit families (particularly but not exclusively, at the high school level) should look at the schools in their district as part of a larger entity. Move to a more university like outlook — where some course offerings are available at another building, such that a “high school” consists of 3-4 buildings/campuses. Offer core classes at all the campuses to minimize commuting.

I know kids already travel between schools for certain classes. My point is that the outlook needs to change.

Third — FCPS should lead the country in developing a trade school path — high tech and traditional. This should be considered on the same level as traditional schooling not for dropouts/failures like some DCUMers perceive tradespeople. There is a program a bit like I’m talking about in NewEngland.

Stop the class warfare and put the focus back on education.

The model we have now is not working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First — emotion needs to be removed from the equation. Plug in the parameters for goals into an optimization program.

Second — each district should consider itself as a unit. Within that unit families (particularly but not exclusively, at the high school level) should look at the schools in their district as part of a larger entity. Move to a more university like outlook — where some course offerings are available at another building, such that a “high school” consists of 3-4 buildings/campuses. Offer core classes at all the campuses to minimize commuting.

I know kids already travel between schools for certain classes. My point is that the outlook needs to change.

Third — FCPS should lead the country in developing a trade school path — high tech and traditional. This should be considered on the same level as traditional schooling not for dropouts/failures like some DCUMers perceive tradespeople. There is a program a bit like I’m talking about in NewEngland.

Stop the class warfare and put the focus back on education.

The model we have now is not working.

FCPS has great trade schools and vocational schools. You can already graduate with trade licenses and qualifications. It's not on the same level and no one considers it on the same level because everything about our whole society prizes a degree from a good university over a class in medical billing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First — emotion needs to be removed from the equation. Plug in the parameters for goals into an optimization program.

Second — each district should consider itself as a unit. Within that unit families (particularly but not exclusively, at the high school level) should look at the schools in their district as part of a larger entity. Move to a more university like outlook — where some course offerings are available at another building, such that a “high school” consists of 3-4 buildings/campuses. Offer core classes at all the campuses to minimize commuting.

I know kids already travel between schools for certain classes. My point is that the outlook needs to change.

Third — FCPS should lead the country in developing a trade school path — high tech and traditional. This should be considered on the same level as traditional schooling not for dropouts/failures like some DCUMers perceive tradespeople. There is a program a bit like I’m talking about in NewEngland.

Stop the class warfare and put the focus back on education.

The model we have now is not working.

FCPS has great trade schools and vocational schools. You can already graduate with trade licenses and qualifications. It's not on the same level and no one considers it on the same level because everything about our whole society prizes a degree from a good university over a class in medical billing

FCPS has horrendous trade programs. They don’t prepare children for trade programs and don’t let them use power tools. Not only that, it can only support a few hundred kids are are located at schools inaccessible for FARMs.

Doesn’t do much good to have a mediocre program at Chantilly, when the demand is at Herndon and Mount Vernon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First — emotion needs to be removed from the equation. Plug in the parameters for goals into an optimization program.

Second — each district should consider itself as a unit. Within that unit families (particularly but not exclusively, at the high school level) should look at the schools in their district as part of a larger entity. Move to a more university like outlook — where some course offerings are available at another building, such that a “high school” consists of 3-4 buildings/campuses. Offer core classes at all the campuses to minimize commuting.

I know kids already travel between schools for certain classes. My point is that the outlook needs to change.

Third — FCPS should lead the country in developing a trade school path — high tech and traditional. This should be considered on the same level as traditional schooling not for dropouts/failures like some DCUMers perceive tradespeople. There is a program a bit like I’m talking about in NewEngland.

Stop the class warfare and put the focus back on education.

The model we have now is not working.

FCPS has great trade schools and vocational schools. You can already graduate with trade licenses and qualifications. It's not on the same level and no one considers it on the same level because everything about our whole society prizes a degree from a good university over a class in medical billing

What is the name of our FCPS trade schools???? There are some classes. I am saying FCPS should lead in this area and make it stand out. Stop being sheep. It should be separate like the governors school FCPS operates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First — emotion needs to be removed from the equation. Plug in the parameters for goals into an optimization program.

Second — each district should consider itself as a unit. Within that unit families (particularly but not exclusively, at the high school level) should look at the schools in their district as part of a larger entity. Move to a more university like outlook — where some course offerings are available at another building, such that a “high school” consists of 3-4 buildings/campuses. Offer core classes at all the campuses to minimize commuting.

I know kids already travel between schools for certain classes. My point is that the outlook needs to change.

Third — FCPS should lead the country in developing a trade school path — high tech and traditional. This should be considered on the same level as traditional schooling not for dropouts/failures like some DCUMers perceive tradespeople. There is a program a bit like I’m talking about in NewEngland.

Stop the class warfare and put the focus back on education.

The model we have now is not working.

Thanks. We have what we need at our schools. No desire to see our comprehensive high school turned into one campus in some consortia of four or five schools.

And there are already great Academy options for those interested in pursuing vocational trades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First — emotion needs to be removed from the equation. Plug in the parameters for goals into an optimization program.

Second — each district should consider itself as a unit. Within that unit families (particularly but not exclusively, at the high school level) should look at the schools in their district as part of a larger entity. Move to a more university like outlook — where some course offerings are available at another building, such that a “high school” consists of 3-4 buildings/campuses. Offer core classes at all the campuses to minimize commuting.

I know kids already travel between schools for certain classes. My point is that the outlook needs to change.

Third — FCPS should lead the country in developing a trade school path — high tech and traditional. This should be considered on the same level as traditional schooling not for dropouts/failures like some DCUMers perceive tradespeople. There is a program a bit like I’m talking about in NewEngland.

Stop the class warfare and put the focus back on education.

The model we have now is not working.

FCPS has great trade schools and vocational schools. You can already graduate with trade licenses and qualifications. It's not on the same level and no one considers it on the same level because everything about our whole society prizes a degree from a good university over a class in medical billing

FCPS has horrendous trade programs. They don’t prepare children for trade programs and don’t let them use power tools. Not only that, it can only support a few hundred kids are are located at schools inaccessible for FARMs.

Doesn’t do much good to have a mediocre program at Chantilly, when the demand is at Herndon and Mount Vernon.

These classes should not be buried at current high schools. I think they should be offer such classes but there should be a TJ-like secondary trade school or one set aside in each existing district. For example, in Dranesville there is extra space capacity. Dedicate part of the building to the trade program drawing on kids from Langley, McLean and Herndon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First — emotion needs to be removed from the equation. Plug in the parameters for goals into an optimization program.

Second — each district should consider itself as a unit. Within that unit families (particularly but not exclusively, at the high school level) should look at the schools in their district as part of a larger entity. Move to a more university like outlook — where some course offerings are available at another building, such that a “high school” consists of 3-4 buildings/campuses. Offer core classes at all the campuses to minimize commuting.

I know kids already travel between schools for certain classes. My point is that the outlook needs to change.

Third — FCPS should lead the country in developing a trade school path — high tech and traditional. This should be considered on the same level as traditional schooling not for dropouts/failures like some DCUMers perceive tradespeople. There is a program a bit like I’m talking about in NewEngland.

Stop the class warfare and put the focus back on education.

The model we have now is not working.

FCPS has great trade schools and vocational schools. You can already graduate with trade licenses and qualifications. It's not on the same level and no one considers it on the same level because everything about our whole society prizes a degree from a good university over a class in medical billing

What is the name of our FCPS trade schools???? There are some classes. I am saying FCPS should lead in this area and make it stand out. Stop being sheep. It should be separate like the governors school FCPS operates.

There is not even sufficient demand for the classes offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First — emotion needs to be removed from the equation. Plug in the parameters for goals into an optimization program.

Second — each district should consider itself as a unit. Within that unit families (particularly but not exclusively, at the high school level) should look at the schools in their district as part of a larger entity. Move to a more university like outlook — where some course offerings are available at another building, such that a “high school” consists of 3-4 buildings/campuses. Offer core classes at all the campuses to minimize commuting.

I know kids already travel between schools for certain classes. My point is that the outlook needs to change.

Third — FCPS should lead the country in developing a trade school path — high tech and traditional. This should be considered on the same level as traditional schooling not for dropouts/failures like some DCUMers perceive tradespeople. There is a program a bit like I’m talking about in NewEngland.

Stop the class warfare and put the focus back on education.

The model we have now is not working.

Thanks. We have what we need at our schools. No desire to see our comprehensive high school turned into one campus in some consortia of four or five schools.

And there are already great Academy options for those interested in pursuing vocational trades.

Who were the top graduates? Tell us about the ones you know? If it is so great, how come they aren’t touted at schools? We have an obligation to engage all of our children. Are you afraid your snowflake might actually want to pursue a trade? Some of the best college educated engineers I know also have trade skills / certs.

The system needs an overhaul — and not just AP vs IB, high versus low FARMS/ESOL assistance, ….