Dooce /Heather Armstrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I'd heard of Dooce but never read it. A few clicks and I can see understand the appeal - the posts have a deft, humorous, slightly manic style. But writing thousands and thousands of posts over many years about her thoughts, her family, her day-to-day life - to be honest, it does not seem sane or healthy.

Same, I’m a little younger (more of the Julia Engel/Berolzheimer, KJP age) but reading her blog now, she is a great storyteller.

Fwiw I have looked at Gomi and it is incredibly toxic. It’s like 4chan for women/influencers. They definitely do snark on children too, there was so much speculation about one of Amber Fillerup’s kids, and Brittany Boren Leach.

The Brittany Boren Leach stuff was crazy over there. It was like a week or two of sympathy and “can’t believe what she’s going through” and then an abrupt shift to the usual amateur psychologist stuff and diagnosing everyone as a closet narcissist and hoping CPS takes her kids.

All of the hypothesizing that she killed him because he was a boy, and then how disappointed she must be to have other boys was insane! I swear most of the GOMI readers don’t even have children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58, so about 10 years older than Dooce, and I remember reading her posts many years ago when my children were little. What some of you young uns might not realize is what a pathbreaker she was when she started her blog. In the mid-2000's, there was no tradition of women even talking publicly about how hard parenting can be, how it affects your identity and self esteem, your marriage.

No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.

I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.

We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'

In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.

Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.

It would have been so much better if she simply wrote about it all more anonymously and left out photos of her girls and their names. She could have simply gone by Dooce and had an avatar or something. She did something useful and also incredibly destructive. She helped people feel less alone and also helped inspire more moms to exploit their children for fame and fortune.

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think there was intent to exploit her children. I will say that some people are more vulnerable to the effects of social media and its audience. Some people should not be creating it or consuming it. Eg certain personality types, those with mental health issues.

I agree with this and will expand that for those of us who fall into this category, who are very negatively impacted by social media, we had NO IDEA that would be the result of any of this back in the early 00s when we started blogging and posting. First off, it wasn't so public then -- the audience of people looking at these blogs or engaging with early-era social media was miniscule. It truly did feel like community. It was raw and honest but not public in the way the internet is now public. It was like going to a local meet up or joining a book club -- yes, you were putting yourself out there, but in a way that felt small and controlled.

People like Dooce learned in real time, along with everyone else, what the downsides were and what could happen if you "put yourself out there" on the internet. Her starting her blog in 2001 is not the same as someone aspiring to be an influencer in 2023.

[Anonymous]

Suicide contagion is real and glamorizing and public compassion one-upsmanship likely does not decrease future suicide and very likely increases them. Seriously-if you knew them condolences and kindness would be the thing to do but truly the best thing you can all do is can it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:when i was going thru depression, hit a dark place, and finally went to a psychiatrist. First thing the doctor talked about was he asked me if I loved my kids, and I said of course, and then he said the absolute worst thing I could do to them is kill myself.

kept me from killing myself, would love to stop feeling lousy everyday , but I can't hurt my kids.

so each day is one more day of misery, but alive

You are brave and strong for staying here for your kids, PP. I have so much respect for you.

(｡ •́︿•̀｡ )

[Anonymous]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but is she the blogger who shared the story of being after her husband when he was still married to someone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58, so about 10 years older than Dooce, and I remember reading her posts many years ago when my children were little. What some of you young uns might not realize is what a pathbreaker she was when she started her blog. In the mid-2000's, there was no tradition of women even talking publicly about how hard parenting can be, how it affects your identity and self esteem, your marriage.

No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.

I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.

We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'

In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.

Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.

It would have been so much better if she simply wrote about it all more anonymously and left out photos of her girls and their names. She could have simply gone by Dooce and had an avatar or something. She did something useful and also incredibly destructive. She helped people feel less alone and also helped inspire more moms to exploit their children for fame and fortune.

People talk about her posting pictures of her kids like it is a massive moral infraction. Good grief. People who post white supremacist stuff online get more grace from some of you.

A lot of us posted pictures of our kids on our blogs and wrote about their lives. For me and the vast majority of us the content wasn’t, “here is a personal problem Larla is having,” but things like “Larla tried solids for the first time today.” Having a blog was a wonderful way to not just keep in touch with family and friends but to connect to them more deeply, because I could tell stories about my life. It was a vital creative outlet at a time when I was a new SAHM mom feeling incredibly isolated. Once I heard about people misusing images of children I took them down, and I do think it would have been better had I never put them up. But as for the stories of my kids? I loved those and so do they. They have a great record of their earliest years.

Would all this be worse if I found a way to monetize it? I would never do that for all sorts of reasons, but the content would still be there. Lots of us were guilty. One person who comes to mind is a vlogger (and can we just agree that family vlogs are way worse than mommy blogs?) who did a whole episode on her daughter shaving her legs for the first time. And I am sure that some people who loathe Dooce also post pictures of their own kids online. Dooce made big mistakes with her kids really didn’t deserve all the hate.

Note: I was not inspired to write by Dooce. I don’t know about her until after I had already started blogging (and yes for the first few years I loved and was very inspired her content). Dooce may have been the first but I don’t think she ultimately made that big of a difference when it comes to how many moms share photos of their kids online.

What you're not saying is that you didn't monetize your children, and she did. I made money off my blog, a good amount, but that was before I had kids and even then, I was anonymous and registered my site through someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong, but is she the blogger who shared the story of being after her husband when he was still married to someone else?

Indeed. And she dated a married man after she got divorced.

[Anonymous]

Those were the days! You would find a blogger you liked and then click through their blogroll and check out other blogs. It really was a much smaller universe back then, and in many ways more raw and intimate than today's influencers and curated feeds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like an OG internet person knowing Dooce, GOMI, Alice (Party Pants), etc. I found GOMI because of Julia Allison.

Yes! Julia Allison, Jessica Quirk & Kath Eats!

So many witty comments back then.

Party Pants was the queen of mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58, so about 10 years older than Dooce, and I remember reading her posts many years ago when my children were little. What some of you young uns might not realize is what a pathbreaker she was when she started her blog. In the mid-2000's, there was no tradition of women even talking publicly about how hard parenting can be, how it affects your identity and self esteem, your marriage.

No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.

I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.

We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'

In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.

Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.

It would have been so much better if she simply wrote about it all more anonymously and left out photos of her girls and their names. She could have simply gone by Dooce and had an avatar or something. She did something useful and also incredibly destructive. She helped people feel less alone and also helped inspire more moms to exploit their children for fame and fortune.

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think there was intent to exploit her children. I will say that some people are more vulnerable to the effects of social media and its audience. Some people should not be creating it or consuming it. Eg certain personality types, those with mental health issues.

I agree with this and will expand that for those of us who fall into this category, who are very negatively impacted by social media, we had NO IDEA that would be the result of any of this back in the early 00s when we started blogging and posting. First off, it wasn't so public then -- the audience of people looking at these blogs or engaging with early-era social media was miniscule. It truly did feel like community. It was raw and honest but not public in the way the internet is now public. It was like going to a local meet up or joining a book club -- yes, you were putting yourself out there, but in a way that felt small and controlled.

People like Dooce learned in real time, along with everyone else, what the downsides were and what could happen if you "put yourself out there" on the internet. Her starting her blog in 2001 is not the same as someone aspiring to be an influencer in 2023.

People expressed skepticism about putting your life online for strangers even in the early 00s. Some people just chose to ignore that. But that risk was always there and always discussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58, so about 10 years older than Dooce, and I remember reading her posts many years ago when my children were little. What some of you young uns might not realize is what a pathbreaker she was when she started her blog. In the mid-2000's, there was no tradition of women even talking publicly about how hard parenting can be, how it affects your identity and self esteem, your marriage.

No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.

I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.

We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'

In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.

Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.

It would have been so much better if she simply wrote about it all more anonymously and left out photos of her girls and their names. She could have simply gone by Dooce and had an avatar or something. She did something useful and also incredibly destructive. She helped people feel less alone and also helped inspire more moms to exploit their children for fame and fortune.

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think there was intent to exploit her children. I will say that some people are more vulnerable to the effects of social media and its audience. Some people should not be creating it or consuming it. Eg certain personality types, those with mental health issues.

I agree with this and will expand that for those of us who fall into this category, who are very negatively impacted by social media, we had NO IDEA that would be the result of any of this back in the early 00s when we started blogging and posting. First off, it wasn't so public then -- the audience of people looking at these blogs or engaging with early-era social media was miniscule. It truly did feel like community. It was raw and honest but not public in the way the internet is now public. It was like going to a local meet up or joining a book club -- yes, you were putting yourself out there, but in a way that felt small and controlled.

People like Dooce learned in real time, along with everyone else, what the downsides were and what could happen if you "put yourself out there" on the internet. Her starting her blog in 2001 is not the same as someone aspiring to be an influencer in 2023.

+1 to all of this. The idea that you could make a living from blogging, especially blogging about issues that mainly concerned women, was considered implausible or downright laughable. The term "mommy blogger" is deliberately sneering and condescending because it was a woman daring to share engaging stories about womanhood who built a following outside of a major daily newspaper.

When Dooce monetized her blog, that was groundbreaking. And no one really knew what would happen. The fact that digital media happened so fast and so completely was not anticipated by the majority of people or print publishers. It's far removed from a person starting an IG page today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like an OG internet person knowing Dooce, GOMI, Alice (Party Pants), etc. I found GOMI because of Julia Allison.

Yes! Julia Allison, Jessica Quirk & Kath Eats!

So many witty comments back then.

Party Pants was the queen of mean.

DP and this is unlocking so many memories. "Sarah had two tacos but I only had one."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those were the days! You would find a blogger you liked and then click through their blogroll and check out other blogs. It really was a much smaller universe back then, and in many ways more raw and intimate than today's influencers and curated feeds.

I definitely found the blogs more interesting back then. Cory Doctorow talks about the "enshittification cycle" of social media. First the platforms draw users by legitimately giving them something good. Once the users are locked in, they draw in businesses by giving them access to the users. This makes the experience somewhat worse for the users, but where are they going to go? Once the businesses are locked in, the platforms makes decisions that extract more money from businesses and sometimes users; making the experience worse for both, but profitable for shareholders - because where else are the users or businesses going to go?

It's hard to remember, but part of the reason that blogs went by the wayside is that Facebook and Twitter were kind of fun and it was easy to see what all of your friends were up to and pretty easy to find new, interesting voices. Now it's all such a f'ing wasteland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58, so about 10 years older than Dooce, and I remember reading her posts many years ago when my children were little. What some of you young uns might not realize is what a pathbreaker she was when she started her blog. In the mid-2000's, there was no tradition of women even talking publicly about how hard parenting can be, how it affects your identity and self esteem, your marriage.

No wine moms. The term 'sanctimommy' hadn't been coined yet. There was no word to describe the ways that some women managed to make you feel bad about yourself when they competed with you on the parenting front.

I got married at age 29 and came of age when those terrible articles were everywhere about infertility and 'if you aren't married by the time you are thirty you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have a child.' We were grateful that our husbands 'let us' work, and didn't dare ask for any sort of equal parenting. My girlfriends and I used to joke about our 'stealth jobs' that we did while our kids were in school but never letting on to our kids' teachers that we actually had jobs. We watched that trial on TV of the nanny who killed her charge and watched that scandal where the day care center was accused of conducting ritualized satanic abuse.

We were encouraged to believe that we could do it all and have it all. Being a mom was referred to as 'the toughest job you'll ever love.'

In short, there was NOWHERE to go to find a voice like hers -- that said things like "some days I wonder if I've made a mistake. it's scary being responsible for these little people, their psyches, etc." or 'I wonder who I am or if I'm ever going to find myself again.' These are sentiments that some of you may have encountered routinely when you had little kids, but at the time Heather was writing, these things were not said. And she said them. and helped us all to feel less alone. To be okay with our imperfections, with being imperfect, with being scared.

Her writing meant a lot to a lot of people of my generation. She paved the way for a lot of what you see routinely today on Tik Tok and elsewhere -- the one upping mom (she's awful!), the wealthy lady who doesn't understand what your problem is, etc. Probably this site. Anyway, I'll miss her.

It would have been so much better if she simply wrote about it all more anonymously and left out photos of her girls and their names. She could have simply gone by Dooce and had an avatar or something. She did something useful and also incredibly destructive. She helped people feel less alone and also helped inspire more moms to exploit their children for fame and fortune.

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think there was intent to exploit her children. I will say that some people are more vulnerable to the effects of social media and its audience. Some people should not be creating it or consuming it. Eg certain personality types, those with mental health issues.

I agree with this and will expand that for those of us who fall into this category, who are very negatively impacted by social media, we had NO IDEA that would be the result of any of this back in the early 00s when we started blogging and posting. First off, it wasn't so public then -- the audience of people looking at these blogs or engaging with early-era social media was miniscule. It truly did feel like community. It was raw and honest but not public in the way the internet is now public. It was like going to a local meet up or joining a book club -- yes, you were putting yourself out there, but in a way that felt small and controlled.

People like Dooce learned in real time, along with everyone else, what the downsides were and what could happen if you "put yourself out there" on the internet. Her starting her blog in 2001 is not the same as someone aspiring to be an influencer in 2023.

People expressed skepticism about putting your life online for strangers even in the early 00s. Some people just chose to ignore that. But that risk was always there and always discussed.

People express skepticism about everything everyone does. Discerning between wise caution on the one hand and, on the other, people just talking shit about stuff they know nothing about is the eternal challenge of the Internet.

[Anonymous]

Hopefully everyone who contributed to those GOMI threads years ago (and now I guess) can feel like they are part of this story. Maybe GOMI's pageviews have even gone up as a result of the suicide. From this thread, it seems pretty clear that commenters there aren't really self-reflective enough to make any kind of connection between the insults and hate they put out and the effect this could have on someone's life, so I guess GOMI gets all the benefits from the extra circulation and no bad feelings or remorse. I'm not surprised. But to me, GOMI and everything it stands for sucks.