Covid vax mandates over for Fed employees; time for all colleges to end them as well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The vaccine was never claimed to be 100% effective at preventing someone from catching covid. Its purpose is to reduce the seriousness of the outcome ( mild case requiring only self care vs hospitalisation vs death) and reduce transmissibility.

This is middle school level biology lol.

Not true.

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/553773-fauci-vaccinated-people-become-dead-ends-for-the-coronavirus/amp/

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-government-and-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-46a270ce0f681caa7e4143e2ae9a0211

Biden DID claim vaccinated people were 100% protected. Your quote above "The vaccine was never claimed..." is false

I posted that link to show Fauci himself claimed the vax would almost completely stop transmission

[Anonymous]

“ Almost” means not 100%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what the big deal is with people opposed to getting the vaccine. Seriously, what is your problem?

The issue is with college kids. Many have had three and four doses already, as well as having had covid once or twice. That's a lot of doses/exposure for healthy kids who face almost no risk of serious outcomes from covid and are most susceptible to the small risks of myocarditis post-vaccine. However, even with all these prior doses/exposures, some colleges may now switch to requiring the bivalent given the change in the FDA's recommendations and it's unclear whether they might also require a combined covid/flu vaccine if it's released later in the fall. The way colleges have implemented these requirements is also odd. Some have required booster/bivalent for students but only recommended them for faculty and staff, even though covid risks rise with age.

We get flu shots every year. No big deal.

Covid shot is not the flu shot. Just as a haircut is not a heart transplant. The flu shot is simple, harmless and based on proven technology. The Covid shot is experimental with identifiable serious side effects and an injury profile. Just because both are “shots” doesn’t mean both are the same. I never woke up in the middle of the night in excruciating pain after getting a flu shot.

BS.

What is BS? It’s ridiculous to say just because some vaccines are mandated in certain circumstances all vaccines should be mandated. Thought needs to go into whether or not a particular vaccine mandate is justified. In the case of college students and boosters, it’s not even remotely justifiable (hence being eliminated now by school after school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The vaccine was never claimed to be 100% effective at preventing someone from catching covid. Its purpose is to reduce the seriousness of the outcome ( mild case requiring only self care vs hospitalisation vs death) and reduce transmissibility.

This is middle school level biology lol.

But it’s very unclear if it reduces transmissibility in any meaningful way, hence there is no basis at all to mandate it. Even if it did reduce transmissibility, the risk of vaccine injury renders it unsuitable for mandates (as opposed to more harmless traditional vaccines)

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2022/12/424546/covid-19-vaccines-prior-infection-reduce-transmission-omicron

According to this study in California prisons, within 5 weeks of a vaccine shot a vaccinated person with a breakthrough infection is 28% likely to transmit the virus vs 36% for an unvaccinated person.

I would say that local area circumstances should dictate policy, if say a city was on its knees with the hospital emergency rooms and ICUs blocked with serious ply I’ll covid positive patients then the difference between 28 and 36% is consequential and the colleges would be reason to mandate but in a low risk area the mandate won’t be worth the effort.

Three years ago, 36% was not even sufficient for authorization - per the government's original statements, the bar was 50% for authorization. The bar was lowered later.

There is a long, long way from authorization to recommendation and then to mandate a product. A temporary and miniscule decrease in infection over a few months is nowhere near what would support the ethics of a mandate. Nowhere even close to the ballpark. (For those wondering, prior to covid, flu shots were generally not mandated by colleges due to low efficacy as well, and health care worker mandates for flu - which will continue - similarly violate medical ethics.)

Agree. These mandates are completely unethical. And our public health officials (especially at the higher levels need to speak out against them). The fact that they are not doing so is incredibly troubling and in fact, it is eroding public trust in our federal agencies.

Mandates need to be thoughtfully implemented. And should have solid data to back them up.

[Anonymous]

Are colleges actually mandating that students have the most recently available booster ( 5 or 6th shot) or just that they at least had the primary two shots + 1 booster? The former doesn't make sense now in 2023 but the latter is reasonable to ensure a minimum community protection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what the big deal is with people opposed to getting the vaccine. Seriously, what is your problem?

The issue is with college kids. Many have had three and four doses already, as well as having had covid once or twice. That's a lot of doses/exposure for healthy kids who face almost no risk of serious outcomes from covid and are most susceptible to the small risks of myocarditis post-vaccine. However, even with all these prior doses/exposures, some colleges may now switch to requiring the bivalent given the change in the FDA's recommendations and it's unclear whether they might also require a combined covid/flu vaccine if it's released later in the fall. The way colleges have implemented these requirements is also odd. Some have required booster/bivalent for students but only recommended them for faculty and staff, even though covid risks rise with age.

We get flu shots every year. No big deal.

Covid shot is not the flu shot. Just as a haircut is not a heart transplant. The flu shot is simple, harmless and based on proven technology. The Covid shot is experimental with identifiable serious side effects and an injury profile. Just because both are “shots” doesn’t mean both are the same. I never woke up in the middle of the night in excruciating pain after getting a flu shot.

BS.

What is BS? It’s ridiculous to say just because some vaccines are mandated in certain circumstances all vaccines should be mandated. Thought needs to go into whether or not a particular vaccine mandate is justified. In the case of college students and boosters, it’s not even remotely justifiable (hence being eliminated now by school after school).

There have been numerous colleges drop their mandates recently. But others have either not changed their current policies or have doubled down and announced fall mandates nonetheless. For students in these latter schools, college vaccine/booster requirements remain an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Are colleges actually mandating that students have the most recently available booster ( 5 or 6th shot) or just that they at least had the primary two shots + 1 booster? The former doesn't make sense now in 2023 but the latter is reasonable to ensure a minimum community protection.

And you get to be the arbiter of what medical interventions are entirely reasonable to compel my son to take?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Are colleges actually mandating that students have the most recently available booster ( 5 or 6th shot) or just that they at least had the primary two shots + 1 booster? The former doesn't make sense now in 2023 but the latter is reasonable to ensure a minimum community protection.

The former are no longer authorized. An unvaccinated student does not have access to them.

The latter are authorized only for emergency use and have no RCT data demonstrating a benefit for young adults with prior infection. Moreover, the antibody level increase wanes in a matter of weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ Almost” means not 100%.

The clear message from Biden and Fauci was that vaccination stops transmission (with immaterial exception). The reality is far from that. It’s unclear if vaccination even impacts community transmission in a significant way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Are colleges actually mandating that students have the most recently available booster ( 5 or 6th shot) or just that they at least had the primary two shots + 1 booster? The former doesn't make sense now in 2023 but the latter is reasonable to ensure a minimum community protection.

Yes. Univ. of Michigan, Yale & Wellesley are examples of colleges that have required the bivalent.
Michigan requires bivalent for students living in on-campus housing for fall 2023. https://healthresponse.umich.edu/policies-guidance/vaccine/
Wellesley's existing policy is to require bivalent for students but not for faculty or staff https://www.wellesley.edu/coronavirus
Until last week, Yale also mandated bivalent for students but not for faculty or staff. However, they may have just changed their policy as they said last week that incoming freshman will not be subject to covid vaccine requirements but Yale's main covid vaccine page has not been updated yet.
https://covid19.yale.edu/covid-19-vaccination-policy
https://yalehealth.yale.edu/new-undergraduate-student-forms

[Anonymous]

This business of requiring it for students, but not staff and faculty is absolutely disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This business of requiring it for students, but not staff and faculty is absolutely disgusting.

Univ. of California is an interesting case of what happened when universities mandated bivalent for students, faculty, and staff. UC Irvine and Santa Barbara mandated bivalent in fall 2022.
Irvine: https://uci.edu/coronavirus/messages/221021-covid-update.php Santa Barbara: https://web.archive.org/web/20221025010507/https://www.ucsb.edu/COVID-19-information/vaccine
Eleven UC professors wrote UC leadership asking for a reversal of the bivalent mandate. Shortly thereafter, UC modified its covid vaccine policy to allow unrestricted bivalent opt-outs (ie not restricted to medical or religious exemptions). https://policy.ucop.edu/doc/5000695/VaccinationProgramsPolicy
Faculty and staff at UC were willing to push back on bivalent mandates and were successful in their efforts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This business of requiring it for students, but not staff and faculty is absolutely disgusting.

I agree---if it is required (and I'm fine with that), it should be required for students, faculty and staff in similar manner. Otherwise it does not make sense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Educated people want to get vaccinated. The effects of Long Covid are still not known, but the most recent studies indicated that heart issues associated with COVID are far worse than any perceived heart issues associated with the vaccine.

This!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No indoctrinated people want to get boosters. Fact getting the vaccine and/or booster does not prevent COVID, so also will not prevent the effects of long COVID.

Indoctrinated means educated to you. How sad.