Is Atheism a religion without a church or temple ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:One of the definition of religion on Merriam-Webster
A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
I think a lot of atheists use faith to describe what caused the Big Bang by saying something came from nothing.
To believe in this something came from nothing you have to belong in the religion of Atheism.

Math and physics are the opposite of religion and faith. Sorry, OP.

Definitely not tire.

Many good scientists have religious beliefs.

Science and religion are not the opposite of each but address different aspects of truth and the knowledge forms are different.

Science addresses facts. Religion addresses faith and beliefs

In science there is one correct answer to a question. In Religion there can be many answers, depending on the beliefs of any particular religion. Some religions have similar, but not identical beliefs - e.g., Roman catholicism and Anglicanism.

This is a very narrow understanding of both science and religion.

The most brilliant scientists I know are people of faith. Think Einstein IQs.

What type of “scientists”? How old are they?

.

The scientists I know who have deep religious faiths are
Theoretical physicists
Medical doctors
Research scientists
Engineers
Chemists

I provided lists of well known scientists who identify as Christians and there are probably many more of other faith traditions

What was your source of information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the definition of religion on Merriam-Webster
A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
I think a lot of atheists use faith to describe what caused the Big Bang by saying something came from nothing.
To believe in this something came from nothing you have to belong in the religion of Atheism.

Math and physics are the opposite of religion and faith. Sorry, OP.

Definitely not tire.

Many good scientists have religious beliefs.

Science and religion are not the opposite of each but address different aspects of truth and the knowledge forms are different.

Scientists are human, and humans are susceptible to the same weakness- the desire to believe they are special, that they have the answers to the unknowable, that there is some point to their suffering, that some omniscient parent figure can make the pain go away if they just follow certain rules. It’s humbling that, for all the ways we’ve evolved and all the amazing things our big brains can accomplish, we’ve also inherited a desire to kill each other and isolate into pods based on things that are completely unknowable and beyond proof.

God doesn’t come to people naturally. If you don’t indoctrinate children at a young age, most of them just view God and religion as nonsense.

I am an atheist, but not a nasty one. I’m not going to judge people for what they do in weakness. Humans are just prone to wishful thinking in times of desperation. Most of the time it hurts no one, maybe even helps. Occasionally it inspires selfish amoral people to rise above themselves. Whatever gets you through the night and all that.

I consider myself more of an anti-religionist because religion preys on weakness and often has a heavy hand in creating the misery in the world it claims to ameliorate. That’s just facts, sorry. Plus the whole shoving their nonsense down people’s throats and bullying nonbelievers thing. Religionists always claim they want to be left alone in peace, but most really want to control and dominate. It’s not surprising to me that religious posters on here project their deficiencies onto atheists. They probably can’t imagine a world where someone with a viewpoint doesn’t want to control everyone because they’ve never seen it.

Exactly

Well put, atheist pp, except for the sentence "I am an atheist, but not a nasty one." Why would it be implicit that your were nasty because you are an atheist? True, some are, but in fact, most are not. Many are quiet about their lack of religious belief, in contrast to some religious people, who systematically bully atheists and people of other religions.

Want to find a "church home" that meets your needs? fine -- DCUM can help. Do you disagree with certain posters? Watch out -- some people think you must believe just as they do to be allowed to post here. Maybe they think they're in their church instead of a public discussion board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ how many of those are still alive?

Those are all listed as still living which is why I posted them and not historic scientists of faith.

Most of them are ancient. Back in the olden times it was easier to force kids into brainwashing.

Anyway, the science aspect of their life deals with facts and knowledge. The ”faith” side deals in beliefs and rituals to fill in uncertainty.

”the scientific method and the scientific worldview can't be allowed to get distorted by religious perspectives” -Collins

The scientists of faith in real life whom I know vary from 20s through to 60s.

I stand by earlier point that you have a very narrow view of both science and religion.

They do not need to be seen as being in conflict.

I recommend reading the brilliant physicist/ theologian Ian Barbour’s work on better understanding the relationship between science and religion -: if you are willing to open your mind.

Barbour:
- The scientific discoveries made by Galileo and Newton began to describe and explain the natural and physical laws by which the earth operates. These discoveries drastically changed the way that man viewed the world and nature. This in turn caused shifts in theological thought.
- God filled the scientific gaps
- the objectivity of science versus the subjectivity of history. History is seen as subjective because one is dealing with the humanities and there is a level of personal involvement. Although throughout history certain patterns of human behavior emerge, these patterns are never entirely predictable or repeatable. Where in science, all events that are observed must be repeatable and produce the same results in order to uphold natural laws.
- Like history, religion is subjective due to the personal involvement required of religion.
- although physics can be used to explain human freedom to some extent, it will never produce an entirely satisfactory argument for it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issues_in_Science_and_Religion

So he compartmentalizes. And uses religion to fill in unknown holes.

Once those holes are all filled in what is left of religion?

Weak.

[Anonymous]

Does Barbour want to force things to happen with women’s private parts without their consent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does Barbour want to force things to happen with women’s private parts without their consent?

Don't know, but doubt it. Most liberal religionists stay away from that stuff. Only religious fundamentalists seem to care. Unfortunately, there are a lot of religious fundamentalists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ how many of those are still alive?

Those are all listed as still living which is why I posted them and not historic scientists of faith.

Most of them are ancient. Back in the olden times it was easier to force kids into brainwashing.

Anyway, the science aspect of their life deals with facts and knowledge. The ”faith” side deals in beliefs and rituals to fill in uncertainty.

”the scientific method and the scientific worldview can't be allowed to get distorted by religious perspectives” -Collins

The scientists of faith in real life whom I know vary from 20s through to 60s.

I stand by earlier point that you have a very narrow view of both science and religion.

They do not need to be seen as being in conflict.

I recommend reading the brilliant physicist/ theologian Ian Barbour’s work on better understanding the relationship between science and religion -: if you are willing to open your mind.

Hopefully, you are willing to open your mind to the fact that Barbour is expressing his opinion, with no scientific proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ how many of those are still alive?

Those are all listed as still living which is why I posted them and not historic scientists of faith.

Most of them are ancient. Back in the olden times it was easier to force kids into brainwashing.

Anyway, the science aspect of their life deals with facts and knowledge. The ”faith” side deals in beliefs and rituals to fill in uncertainty.

”the scientific method and the scientific worldview can't be allowed to get distorted by religious perspectives” -Collins

The scientists of faith in real life whom I know vary from 20s through to 60s.

I stand by earlier point that you have a very narrow view of both science and religion.

They do not need to be seen as being in conflict.

I recommend reading the brilliant physicist/ theologian Ian Barbour’s work on better understanding the relationship between science and religion -: if you are willing to open your mind.

Hopefully, you are willing to open your mind to the fact that Barbour is expressing his opinion, with no scientific proof.

His beliefs, not evidence.

[Anonymous]

To PPs who advocate that religion and science are always in conflict — (this is not a dig at atheists but simply
Addressing the shortcomings of that conflict typology for relationship between science and religion) ..


Scientific reasoning grew out of religious/ philosophical reasoning over hundreds of years. Further, science at high conceptual levels requires creativity and imagination. Science is not black and white, and neither is religion.

>>>>>>>>>>
Commentary: Thinking differently about science and religion
Tom McLeish
([e-mail]) University of York, Heslington, York, UK
Physics Today 71, 2, 10 (2018);

Maintaining the “alternative fact” that science and religion, and in particular Christianity, are in conflict is hurting science. Over the past year, three occasions have left me with strong visual memories and deep impressions that point towards a better approach …

Common across the three occasions is the theme of surprisingly deep and constructive mutual engagement of science and religious belief. The conference on shale-gas recovery was between academic Earth scientists and a few dozen senior church leaders, including bishops of the Church of England. The author of the impressive New Testament scholarship was Isaac Newton. And the play that so impressed me, staged by the Riding Lights Theatre Company in the elegant renaissance church of St Michael le Belfrey in York, featured a 20th-century Job as a research physicist.
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/PT.3.3831


>>>>>>>>>>
Science and Religion
The great courses
Lawrence M. Principe, Ph.D.
InstitutionJohns Hopkins University
Alma materHistory of Science, Johns Hopkins University

Two crucial forces, science and religion, helped shape Western civilization and continue to interact in our daily lives. What is the nature of their relationship? When do they conflict, and how do they influence each other in pursuit of knowledge and truth? Contrary to prevailing notions that they must perpetually clash, science and theology have actually been partners in an age-old adventure. This course covers both the historical sweep and philosophical flashpoints of this epic interaction.
Professor Lawrence M. Principe unfolds a surprisingly cooperative dynamic in which theologians and natural scientists share methods, ideas, aspirations, and a tradition of disputational dialogue.
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/science-and-religion


>>>>>>>>
Faith Reason and Science
Philosophy Talk
Does faith obscure reason? Does reason obscure faith? Or perhaps their subject matters are different. Faith might address one area of our lives and reason and science another. Faith may allow us to see meaning, values, and God, while reason sees everything else, whatever that may be. Or perhaps faith and reason are fundamentally intertwined. Is faith void of reason? Is it irrational to be faithful? Are science and rationality void of faith? John and Ken welcome Nancey Murphy, author of Did My Neurons Make Me Do It?: Philosophical and Neurobiological Perspectives on Moral Responsibility and Free Will, to explore the meaning of faith and the place of faith and reason in religion, scientific practice, and our knowledge of ourselves and the world around us

https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/faith-reason-and-science

>>>>>
If science and religion are properly understood, they cannot be in contradiction because they concern different matters. Science and religion are like two different windows for looking at the world. The two windows look at the same world, but they show different aspects of that world.
https://www.ineos.com/inch-magazine/articles/issue-7/debate/

[Anonymous]

Science and religion aren’t “in conflict”.

Science explains the objective, physical world based on measurable, repeatable data.

Religion explains the beliefs that people have to explain the unknown. “The unknown” changes over time as we have more scientific discoveries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Science and religion aren’t “in conflict”.

Science explains the objective, physical world based on measurable, repeatable data.

Religion explains the beliefs that people have to explain the unknown. “The unknown” changes over time as we have more scientific discoveries.

With most religions, they definitely are in conflict. With the god of the Bible and koran, they definitely are in conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science and religion aren’t “in conflict”.

Science explains the objective, physical world based on measurable, repeatable data.

Religion explains the beliefs that people have to explain the unknown. “The unknown” changes over time as we have more scientific discoveries.

With most religions, they definitely are in conflict. With the god of the Bible and koran, they definitely are in conflict.

I guess that would be true for the fundamentalists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science and religion aren’t “in conflict”.

Science explains the objective, physical world based on measurable, repeatable data.

Religion explains the beliefs that people have to explain the unknown. “The unknown” changes over time as we have more scientific discoveries.

With most religions, they definitely are in conflict. With the god of the Bible and koran, they definitely are in conflict.

I guess that would be true for the fundamentalists.

Basically dogmatists for either religion or science suck and close down potentially rich conversations …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To PPs who advocate that religion and science are always in conflict — (this is not a dig at atheists but simply
Addressing the shortcomings of that conflict typology for relationship between science and religion) ..


Scientific reasoning grew out of religious/ philosophical reasoning over hundreds of years. Further, science at high conceptual levels requires creativity and imagination. Science is not black and white, and neither is religion.

>>>>>>>>>>
Commentary: Thinking differently about science and religion
Tom McLeish
([e-mail]) University of York, Heslington, York, UK
Physics Today 71, 2, 10 (2018);

Maintaining the “alternative fact” that science and religion, and in particular Christianity, are in conflict is hurting science. Over the past year, three occasions have left me with strong visual memories and deep impressions that point towards a better approach …

Common across the three occasions is the theme of surprisingly deep and constructive mutual engagement of science and religious belief. The conference on shale-gas recovery was between academic Earth scientists and a few dozen senior church leaders, including bishops of the Church of England. The author of the impressive New Testament scholarship was Isaac Newton. And the play that so impressed me, staged by the Riding Lights Theatre Company in the elegant renaissance church of St Michael le Belfrey in York, featured a 20th-century Job as a research physicist.
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/PT.3.3831


>>>>>>>>>>
Science and Religion
The great courses
Lawrence M. Principe, Ph.D.
InstitutionJohns Hopkins University
Alma materHistory of Science, Johns Hopkins University

Two crucial forces, science and religion, helped shape Western civilization and continue to interact in our daily lives. What is the nature of their relationship? When do they conflict, and how do they influence each other in pursuit of knowledge and truth? Contrary to prevailing notions that they must perpetually clash, science and theology have actually been partners in an age-old adventure. This course covers both the historical sweep and philosophical flashpoints of this epic interaction.
Professor Lawrence M. Principe unfolds a surprisingly cooperative dynamic in which theologians and natural scientists share methods, ideas, aspirations, and a tradition of disputational dialogue.
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/science-and-religion


>>>>>>>>
Faith Reason and Science
Philosophy Talk
Does faith obscure reason? Does reason obscure faith? Or perhaps their subject matters are different. Faith might address one area of our lives and reason and science another. Faith may allow us to see meaning, values, and God, while reason sees everything else, whatever that may be. Or perhaps faith and reason are fundamentally intertwined. Is faith void of reason? Is it irrational to be faithful? Are science and rationality void of faith? John and Ken welcome Nancey Murphy, author of Did My Neurons Make Me Do It?: Philosophical and Neurobiological Perspectives on Moral Responsibility and Free Will, to explore the meaning of faith and the place of faith and reason in religion, scientific practice, and our knowledge of ourselves and the world around us

https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/faith-reason-and-science

>>>>>
If science and religion are properly understood, they cannot be in contradiction because they concern different matters. Science and religion are like two different windows for looking at the world. The two windows look at the same world, but they show different aspects of that world.
https://www.ineos.com/inch-magazine/articles/issue-7/debate/

You could say the same for sorcery, or Tarot cards or anything that takes alternatives to science seriously.

If you like religion - fine. Enjoy it. Believe it. teach it to your children. Just don't equate with science and don't expect other people to believe as you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PPs who advocate that religion and science are always in conflict — (this is not a dig at atheists but simply
Addressing the shortcomings of that conflict typology for relationship between science and religion) ..


Scientific reasoning grew out of religious/ philosophical reasoning over hundreds of years. Further, science at high conceptual levels requires creativity and imagination. Science is not black and white, and neither is religion.

>>>>>>>>>>
Commentary: Thinking differently about science and religion
Tom McLeish
([e-mail]) University of York, Heslington, York, UK
Physics Today 71, 2, 10 (2018);

Maintaining the “alternative fact” that science and religion, and in particular Christianity, are in conflict is hurting science. Over the past year, three occasions have left me with strong visual memories and deep impressions that point towards a better approach …

Common across the three occasions is the theme of surprisingly deep and constructive mutual engagement of science and religious belief. The conference on shale-gas recovery was between academic Earth scientists and a few dozen senior church leaders, including bishops of the Church of England. The author of the impressive New Testament scholarship was Isaac Newton. And the play that so impressed me, staged by the Riding Lights Theatre Company in the elegant renaissance church of St Michael le Belfrey in York, featured a 20th-century Job as a research physicist.
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/PT.3.3831


>>>>>>>>>>
Science and Religion
The great courses
Lawrence M. Principe, Ph.D.
InstitutionJohns Hopkins University
Alma materHistory of Science, Johns Hopkins University

Two crucial forces, science and religion, helped shape Western civilization and continue to interact in our daily lives. What is the nature of their relationship? When do they conflict, and how do they influence each other in pursuit of knowledge and truth? Contrary to prevailing notions that they must perpetually clash, science and theology have actually been partners in an age-old adventure. This course covers both the historical sweep and philosophical flashpoints of this epic interaction.
Professor Lawrence M. Principe unfolds a surprisingly cooperative dynamic in which theologians and natural scientists share methods, ideas, aspirations, and a tradition of disputational dialogue.
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/science-and-religion


>>>>>>>>
Faith Reason and Science
Philosophy Talk
Does faith obscure reason? Does reason obscure faith? Or perhaps their subject matters are different. Faith might address one area of our lives and reason and science another. Faith may allow us to see meaning, values, and God, while reason sees everything else, whatever that may be. Or perhaps faith and reason are fundamentally intertwined. Is faith void of reason? Is it irrational to be faithful? Are science and rationality void of faith? John and Ken welcome Nancey Murphy, author of Did My Neurons Make Me Do It?: Philosophical and Neurobiological Perspectives on Moral Responsibility and Free Will, to explore the meaning of faith and the place of faith and reason in religion, scientific practice, and our knowledge of ourselves and the world around us

https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/faith-reason-and-science

>>>>>
If science and religion are properly understood, they cannot be in contradiction because they concern different matters. Science and religion are like two different windows for looking at the world. The two windows look at the same world, but they show different aspects of that world.
https://www.ineos.com/inch-magazine/articles/issue-7/debate/

You could say the same for sorcery, or Tarot cards or anything that takes alternatives to science seriously.

If you like religion - fine. Enjoy it. Believe it. teach it to your children. Just don't equate with science and don't expect other people to believe as you do.

And if you want to live in a dogmatic ahistorical echo chamber please go ahead. Apparently you already are …
Someone with many family members and friends who are both scientists and people of faith …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PPs who advocate that religion and science are always in conflict — (this is not a dig at atheists but simply
Addressing the shortcomings of that conflict typology for relationship between science and religion) ..


Scientific reasoning grew out of religious/ philosophical reasoning over hundreds of years. Further, science at high conceptual levels requires creativity and imagination. Science is not black and white, and neither is religion.

>>>>>>>>>>
Commentary: Thinking differently about science and religion
Tom McLeish
([e-mail]) University of York, Heslington, York, UK
Physics Today 71, 2, 10 (2018);

Maintaining the “alternative fact” that science and religion, and in particular Christianity, are in conflict is hurting science. Over the past year, three occasions have left me with strong visual memories and deep impressions that point towards a better approach …

Common across the three occasions is the theme of surprisingly deep and constructive mutual engagement of science and religious belief. The conference on shale-gas recovery was between academic Earth scientists and a few dozen senior church leaders, including bishops of the Church of England. The author of the impressive New Testament scholarship was Isaac Newton. And the play that so impressed me, staged by the Riding Lights Theatre Company in the elegant renaissance church of St Michael le Belfrey in York, featured a 20th-century Job as a research physicist.
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/PT.3.3831


>>>>>>>>>>
Science and Religion
The great courses
Lawrence M. Principe, Ph.D.
InstitutionJohns Hopkins University
Alma materHistory of Science, Johns Hopkins University

Two crucial forces, science and religion, helped shape Western civilization and continue to interact in our daily lives. What is the nature of their relationship? When do they conflict, and how do they influence each other in pursuit of knowledge and truth? Contrary to prevailing notions that they must perpetually clash, science and theology have actually been partners in an age-old adventure. This course covers both the historical sweep and philosophical flashpoints of this epic interaction.
Professor Lawrence M. Principe unfolds a surprisingly cooperative dynamic in which theologians and natural scientists share methods, ideas, aspirations, and a tradition of disputational dialogue.
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/science-and-religion


>>>>>>>>
Faith Reason and Science
Philosophy Talk
Does faith obscure reason? Does reason obscure faith? Or perhaps their subject matters are different. Faith might address one area of our lives and reason and science another. Faith may allow us to see meaning, values, and God, while reason sees everything else, whatever that may be. Or perhaps faith and reason are fundamentally intertwined. Is faith void of reason? Is it irrational to be faithful? Are science and rationality void of faith? John and Ken welcome Nancey Murphy, author of Did My Neurons Make Me Do It?: Philosophical and Neurobiological Perspectives on Moral Responsibility and Free Will, to explore the meaning of faith and the place of faith and reason in religion, scientific practice, and our knowledge of ourselves and the world around us

https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/faith-reason-and-science

>>>>>
If science and religion are properly understood, they cannot be in contradiction because they concern different matters. Science and religion are like two different windows for looking at the world. The two windows look at the same world, but they show different aspects of that world.
https://www.ineos.com/inch-magazine/articles/issue-7/debate/

You could say the same for sorcery, or Tarot cards or anything that takes alternatives to science seriously.

If you like religion - fine. Enjoy it. Believe it. teach it to your children. Just don't equate with science and don't expect other people to believe as you do.

And if you want to live in a dogmatic ahistorical echo chamber please go ahead. Apparently you already are …
Someone with many family members and friends who are both scientists and people of faith …

Notice how religious pp is insulting and previous pp is not. This kind of response is common among some religious people - they feel they have the right to insult people who do not believe the way that they do.