Big state schools - lot of fun, great networks, but do you really learn there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

At some point they need to enter something closer to the real world

NP - is the real world 6x week drinking, lecture style classrooms, being in a community the size of a small city? What about the UMD experience is better prep for the real world than going to a smaller school?

The real world is having to fend for yourself when no body cares whether or not you even exist.

But once again, in the "real world" one can choose to work for a smaller company (ie Not Google or Microsoft or Facebook, etc) where you actually have mentors and bosses who care about nurturing you and helping you develop into a top performer. I've worked for both places and the smaller companies are definately better at helping your grow.

I also think a small school resembles the real world in that in the real world one tends to work with a small group of people, who you didn’t necessarily pick, year after year. As opposed to a new cast of characters every semester.

+1

Yes! Work at a small company and you get to know everyone, even the Executive team and CEO (even at a company of 2-3K employees). You actually do more than just get to know them---you have opportunity to truly become friends with them. That doesn't happen at companies with 10K+ employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I have a unique perspective, as I spent the first two years of college at a small elite private college (I won't name it but it has been mentioned on this thread several times) and then transferred to a Big 10 school that has also been mentioned, so I saw both up close. I transferred because I wanted to major in an area that my small school did not have a department in. I could have designed an independent study program at my first college, but I think there is real value in being part of a community all studying the same thing, so I transferred to a school that had a spectacular department.

It was great being at a small school the first two years, because the classes were small and there was lots of opportunity for direct student/teacher contact. It was nurturing in a way that was helpful to me, a small-town girl living away from home for the first time. But by the end of my sophomore year I was much more independent, and didn't need the hand-holding. At my Big 10 school, there was much more breadth of classes. Since I was transferring as an upperclassman, I went directly into seminars and upper level classes, so I kind of missed the big gut classes that there undoubtedly are in a large school. I definitely had to be more proactive and self-directed about making contact with professors and advocating for myself at my Big 10 school, just because there are so many more students, but I think that was kind of a good experience. And after college, because there were so many grads from my Big 10 school, I was able to tap into a huge network professionally.

So there are pros and cons of both types of school, it really depends on your student and what you want out of your college experience.

+100 I don't get why some on DCUM are so black-and-white in their thinking about this topic, from both sides. There are pros and cons for all types of colleges and, regardless of size, most of college comes down to the efforts of the student to make the most of the opportunities available.

I went to a largeish public university. I had a good experience there, found mentors, mostly had smaller classes as it was a more undergrad focused U. But I also never even considered a LAC and in retrospect wonder if I'd have enjoyed that more? I was a 1st gen student and college was very much about what was affordable and nearby and what major had a clear path to a job.

Now I have one kid at a huge public U and another headed to a LAC. The public U kid really wanted the huge sports rah-rah culture but I think he ended up a bit intimidated by the environment and his close friends are still a group from high school. He hasn't pursued any clubs after a few forays in freshman year didn't connect but is involved in an undergrad research project, finds his major challenging, and will be well positioned for his career when he's done. I wish he would engage more with the out-of-the-classroom opportunities but ultimately it's his life and he never was a joiner in HS so I guess I should not be surprised.

The LAC kid has always been very different from her brother. Wants a small, close-knit community. Hates her huge HS. Put a big priority on faculty mentoring and research opportunities. She felt more at-home at the LACs we visited and found the big schools a real turn off for this next step. But she also plans to study abroad for a year and her career will require a master's degree, which will likely be at one of those big universities so she will certainly be exposed to a range of environments. As the complete opposite of #1, she was adamant that she would not go to any college a friend was going to and the final choice between schools came down to specific ECs she wants to be involved in. I think she's the kind of student who will take full advantage of what the LAC offers but is not the sharp-elbowed, competitive student who would push to get everything possible out of a big U. I do wonder if the LAC will feel too small after a while but again, it's her life, not mine.

So your big public kid may have been more of a "joiner" had they been at a SLAC or even one that is 5-8K. Obviously you will never fully know, but the one potential for attending your local state U is that your kid doesn't go outside their comfort zone and meet new people (ie people that didn't attend their HS or the neighboring HS). However, that can happen at a smaller school. My own kid had a freshman roommate from 6 hours away, who for some reason did not room with their friend from HS---it's a smaller private university (6-8K size). However, turns out they were best friends and neither never really made any other friends freshman year---just spent the whole year hanging with their bestie from HS. I suspect one (or both parents) made them have different roommates freshman year in hopes they would broaden their horizons and meet more people, while taking advantage of knowing that everyone your friend meets is now at least also a potential friend/acquantance for the other one, so double the friend group potential. However, they spent all of freshman year just hanging out the two of them, just HS 2.0, 6 hours from home. I personally want more for my kids---they wanted to meet new people and explore, and both are shy, one painfully so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

This asks of my own personal experience and the experiences of my kids. We all went to a "Sidwell" type school and we all went to different state flagships. I guess the only way to explain it is that you want to provide a strong foundational educational experience, learn how to think and how to write in ways that many large public high schools simply can't do as well. Also, if you like extracurriculars but aren't a superstar (ie future olympic athlete or whatever) a small independent school affords the opportunity to do things like play football or be in a play, or whatever - lots of opportunities to explore without the stakes being too high - no state championship or future Tonay ward winners to compete with...but then having had those experiences, you are able to attend a large university where literally anything you want to study or explore is at your fingertips, and you don;t have to worry too much about the base academics, because the high school foundation was strong enough to be able to put you in a place where you can use those skills to get through the huge freshman weedout classes without too much stress.

This sounds like basically you got the LAC experience in HS so that's why you were prepared to take on the big U. So why is it surprising to people that a student who did NOT get that experience in high school would want to get it in college? Or, at minimum, figure out how to get a LAC-like experience through a honors program or some other program that makes a big school feel small.

On that point...Interesting that so many people think small colleges are bad but then emphasize that you can make a big college feel small. If feeling small is not a virtue, why do big colleges so often emphasize that?

I personally don't get it---you are accurate. My kids all felt the same and searched out small to mid-size schools (4-8K undergrads). They didn't want too small (HS was almost 3K students), but they knew they needed the benefits of smaller schools---both highly motivated but knew they are shy and would more easily come out of their shells if in a smaller more nurturing environment. And I don't care what anyone says, sitting in a lecture with 300+ students is not the same as Chemistry with only 75-100 students in lecture (or even less)---it just isn't. Taking CS101 (or whatever it's called) at Berkley with 500-800 students is NOT the same as somewhere with 100-150 students, a lab (20 students) and a discussion section with 12-18 students. Majority of people will learn better in the smaller environment. Otherwise, just take classes online and self teach yourself.

[Anonymous]

The OP might be a troll, but if not . . .

I went to such a university in the 1990's, and I worked really hard and learned a lot. It was a complete grind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but curious - for folks sending their DCs to private schools in part because of the small class sizes, close relationships with classmates/teachers, tight knit community, focus on academics etc, what is the thought process behind sending that same DC to a massive instate university? leaving the anecdotal evidence to the side for a second, as I'm sure we all know someone who went to U- wherever and is now setting the world on fire, how do you reconcile the criteria you had for a certain hs experience with the complete opposite end of the spectrum that you're seeking for undergrad? Before any one comes at me, I'm not saying that large state Unis don't have solid academics - but why are you spending $$$ to send little Johnny to Sidwell for a "certain experience" if you're turning around and sending him to a school like UMD?

There have already been some good answers to this query, but your last sentence is really off-putting. You seem to assume that you would be wasting the small school experience in HS if you went to a big, public undergrad. Totally disagree with that presumption.

I went to a Sidwell-type school for HS and then went to Michigan. I was so prepared for college with excellent writing skills, high executive functioning, ability to advocate for myself, yada yada. Michigan was not for shrinking violets, but I can't imagine a better learning environment. The world is your oyster in terms of academics. I was able to take at least one seminar per semester, sometimes more, with no more than 15-20 students. I had fantastic advisors, who I still keep in touch with, and defended my undergraduate thesis before a panel of academics. I took an amazing class from the President of University (and former Dean of the law school), and he ended up writing my recommendation for law school. I also had a ton of fun -- there is absolutely nothing better than Ann Arbor on a fall football Saturday. I've received at least two jobs offers in my career where the person hiring me was a Michigan grad.

Point being, there are wonderful, personalized experiences available for undergrads at both big and small schools. I do think the big schools require more self-advocacy (as does the real world) and better prepare kids for the working world. I have my kids at a Sidwell-type school for MS/HS and would push them to go to a bigger university for undergrad.

[Anonymous]

The huge classes people worry about teach basic, introductory concepts. At a big school, by the time a student is in the major and taking higher level classes in junior/senior year, the classes are smaller and more personal because they are taught by professor researching in the topic. In contrast, a small liberal art school has relatively small departments with a couple of profs teaching every class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I have a unique perspective, as I spent the first two years of college at a small elite private college (I won't name it but it has been mentioned on this thread several times) and then transferred to a Big 10 school that has also been mentioned, so I saw both up close. I transferred because I wanted to major in an area that my small school did not have a department in. I could have designed an independent study program at my first college, but I think there is real value in being part of a community all studying the same thing, so I transferred to a school that had a spectacular department.

It was great being at a small school the first two years, because the classes were small and there was lots of opportunity for direct student/teacher contact. It was nurturing in a way that was helpful to me, a small-town girl living away from home for the first time. But by the end of my sophomore year I was much more independent, and didn't need the hand-holding. At my Big 10 school, there was much more breadth of classes. Since I was transferring as an upperclassman, I went directly into seminars and upper level classes, so I kind of missed the big gut classes that there undoubtedly are in a large school. I definitely had to be more proactive and self-directed about making contact with professors and advocating for myself at my Big 10 school, just because there are so many more students, but I think that was kind of a good experience. And after college, because there were so many grads from my Big 10 school, I was able to tap into a huge network professionally.

So there are pros and cons of both types of school, it really depends on your student and what you want out of your college experience.

+100 I don't get why some on DCUM are so black-and-white in their thinking about this topic, from both sides. There are pros and cons for all types of colleges and, regardless of size, most of college comes down to the efforts of the student to make the most of the opportunities available.

I went to a largeish public university. I had a good experience there, found mentors, mostly had smaller classes as it was a more undergrad focused U. But I also never even considered a LAC and in retrospect wonder if I'd have enjoyed that more? I was a 1st gen student and college was very much about what was affordable and nearby and what major had a clear path to a job.

Now I have one kid at a huge public U and another headed to a LAC. The public U kid really wanted the huge sports rah-rah culture but I think he ended up a bit intimidated by the environment and his close friends are still a group from high school. He hasn't pursued any clubs after a few forays in freshman year didn't connect but is involved in an undergrad research project, finds his major challenging, and will be well positioned for his career when he's done. I wish he would engage more with the out-of-the-classroom opportunities but ultimately it's his life and he never was a joiner in HS so I guess I should not be surprised.

The LAC kid has always been very different from her brother. Wants a small, close-knit community. Hates her huge HS. Put a big priority on faculty mentoring and research opportunities. She felt more at-home at the LACs we visited and found the big schools a real turn off for this next step. But she also plans to study abroad for a year and her career will require a master's degree, which will likely be at one of those big universities so she will certainly be exposed to a range of environments. As the complete opposite of #1, she was adamant that she would not go to any college a friend was going to and the final choice between schools came down to specific ECs she wants to be involved in. I think she's the kind of student who will take full advantage of what the LAC offers but is not the sharp-elbowed, competitive student who would push to get everything possible out of a big U. I do wonder if the LAC will feel too small after a while but again, it's her life, not mine.

So your big public kid may have been more of a "joiner" had they been at a SLAC or even one that is 5-8K. Obviously you will never fully know, but the one potential for attending your local state U is that your kid doesn't go outside their comfort zone and meet new people (ie people that didn't attend their HS or the neighboring HS). However, that can happen at a smaller school. My own kid had a freshman roommate from 6 hours away, who for some reason did not room with their friend from HS---it's a smaller private university (6-8K size). However, turns out they were best friends and neither never really made any other friends freshman year---just spent the whole year hanging with their bestie from HS. I suspect one (or both parents) made them have different roommates freshman year in hopes they would broaden their horizons and meet more people, while taking advantage of knowing that everyone your friend meets is now at least also a potential friend/acquantance for the other one, so double the friend group potential. However, they spent all of freshman year just hanging out the two of them, just HS 2.0, 6 hours from home. I personally want more for my kids---they wanted to meet new people and explore, and both are shy, one painfully so.

Yes, my son and his best friend did opt to not be roommates because they wanted to meet more people (their choice, not parent dictated). He didn't go to the big U expecting to hang out just with HS friends. He'd always been very outgoing and made friends easily. But he started college after doing senior year online and isolated. He told me a few months into college that it felt like his "friendship muscles were broken." I'm sure if he'd not had the safety net of the HS group he'd have muddled through and eventually found his place but with that safety net didn't need to. Seeing that experience has been one influence on my DD insisting on not going to a school that friends go to.

Regardless, he's happy at college, enjoys his friends, and is doing very well academically, just not getting the experience that I see could have been possible. This is totally a me issue, not at all an issue for him. Still I hope that as he more consistently has major classes with the same group of people (his major is fairly small) those other connections will grow too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The huge classes people worry about teach basic, introductory concepts. At a big school, by the time a student is in the major and taking higher level classes in junior/senior year, the classes are smaller and more personal because they are taught by professor researching in the topic. In contrast, a small liberal art school has relatively small departments with a couple of profs teaching every class.

Another place where fit matters a lot. If there are only two professors in your major you'd better like them! My DD wanted a small school and I have my reservations about a very small school, ideally prefer more midsize. But she's the one who has to go there. Still I did steer her LAC visits to schools where her field of interest is one of the biggest programs at the school. So there will be a good size cohort of students and a good variety of professors

[Anonymous]

I know someone who went to Michigan and majored in something like French Literature. She always points to the fact that she had small classes in her major as proof that going to a big school doesn't equate to having huge classes.

She's not a quant type. So, it doesn't occur to her that since most people at schools like Michigan are majoring in about 20 out of the 100+ possible majors, most people will be in huge classes throughout their four years there. Her experience is unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I have a unique perspective, as I spent the first two years of college at a small elite private college (I won't name it but it has been mentioned on this thread several times) and then transferred to a Big 10 school that has also been mentioned, so I saw both up close. I transferred because I wanted to major in an area that my small school did not have a department in. I could have designed an independent study program at my first college, but I think there is real value in being part of a community all studying the same thing, so I transferred to a school that had a spectacular department.

It was great being at a small school the first two years, because the classes were small and there was lots of opportunity for direct student/teacher contact. It was nurturing in a way that was helpful to me, a small-town girl living away from home for the first time. But by the end of my sophomore year I was much more independent, and didn't need the hand-holding. At my Big 10 school, there was much more breadth of classes. Since I was transferring as an upperclassman, I went directly into seminars and upper level classes, so I kind of missed the big gut classes that there undoubtedly are in a large school. I definitely had to be more proactive and self-directed about making contact with professors and advocating for myself at my Big 10 school, just because there are so many more students, but I think that was kind of a good experience. And after college, because there were so many grads from my Big 10 school, I was able to tap into a huge network professionally.

So there are pros and cons of both types of school, it really depends on your student and what you want out of your college experience.

+100 I don't get why some on DCUM are so black-and-white in their thinking about this topic, from both sides. There are pros and cons for all types of colleges and, regardless of size, most of college comes down to the efforts of the student to make the most of the opportunities available.

I went to a largeish public university. I had a good experience there, found mentors, mostly had smaller classes as it was a more undergrad focused U. But I also never even considered a LAC and in retrospect wonder if I'd have enjoyed that more? I was a 1st gen student and college was very much about what was affordable and nearby and what major had a clear path to a job.

Now I have one kid at a huge public U and another headed to a LAC. The public U kid really wanted the huge sports rah-rah culture but I think he ended up a bit intimidated by the environment and his close friends are still a group from high school. He hasn't pursued any clubs after a few forays in freshman year didn't connect but is involved in an undergrad research project, finds his major challenging, and will be well positioned for his career when he's done. I wish he would engage more with the out-of-the-classroom opportunities but ultimately it's his life and he never was a joiner in HS so I guess I should not be surprised.

The LAC kid has always been very different from her brother. Wants a small, close-knit community. Hates her huge HS. Put a big priority on faculty mentoring and research opportunities. She felt more at-home at the LACs we visited and found the big schools a real turn off for this next step. But she also plans to study abroad for a year and her career will require a master's degree, which will likely be at one of those big universities so she will certainly be exposed to a range of environments. As the complete opposite of #1, she was adamant that she would not go to any college a friend was going to and the final choice between schools came down to specific ECs she wants to be involved in. I think she's the kind of student who will take full advantage of what the LAC offers but is not the sharp-elbowed, competitive student who would push to get everything possible out of a big U. I do wonder if the LAC will feel too small after a while but again, it's her life, not mine.

So your big public kid may have been more of a "joiner" had they been at a SLAC or even one that is 5-8K. Obviously you will never fully know, but the one potential for attending your local state U is that your kid doesn't go outside their comfort zone and meet new people (ie people that didn't attend their HS or the neighboring HS). However, that can happen at a smaller school. My own kid had a freshman roommate from 6 hours away, who for some reason did not room with their friend from HS---it's a smaller private university (6-8K size). However, turns out they were best friends and neither never really made any other friends freshman year---just spent the whole year hanging with their bestie from HS. I suspect one (or both parents) made them have different roommates freshman year in hopes they would broaden their horizons and meet more people, while taking advantage of knowing that everyone your friend meets is now at least also a potential friend/acquantance for the other one, so double the friend group potential. However, they spent all of freshman year just hanging out the two of them, just HS 2.0, 6 hours from home. I personally want more for my kids---they wanted to meet new people and explore, and both are shy, one painfully so.

Where did your painfully shy kid go and how was it?

[Anonymous]

Unless you're heavily involved in a group throughout your time in college that really bonds you together (frats, Black Student Union, student activists, football team) you're not going to have a network of people at a huge school that's any bigger than what you'd have at a small school, especially after you graduate. That's not how social networks work. Now, if you go to University of South Dakota, you're probably going to be surrounded by other people from South Dakota and almost all of you will live the rest of your lives in South Dakota. So, you'll probably run into people you knew from college, in which case your college network could be useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I have a unique perspective, as I spent the first two years of college at a small elite private college (I won't name it but it has been mentioned on this thread several times) and then transferred to a Big 10 school that has also been mentioned, so I saw both up close. I transferred because I wanted to major in an area that my small school did not have a department in. I could have designed an independent study program at my first college, but I think there is real value in being part of a community all studying the same thing, so I transferred to a school that had a spectacular department.

It was great being at a small school the first two years, because the classes were small and there was lots of opportunity for direct student/teacher contact. It was nurturing in a way that was helpful to me, a small-town girl living away from home for the first time. But by the end of my sophomore year I was much more independent, and didn't need the hand-holding. At my Big 10 school, there was much more breadth of classes. Since I was transferring as an upperclassman, I went directly into seminars and upper level classes, so I kind of missed the big gut classes that there undoubtedly are in a large school. I definitely had to be more proactive and self-directed about making contact with professors and advocating for myself at my Big 10 school, just because there are so many more students, but I think that was kind of a good experience. And after college, because there were so many grads from my Big 10 school, I was able to tap into a huge network professionally.

So there are pros and cons of both types of school, it really depends on your student and what you want out of your college experience.

+100 I don't get why some on DCUM are so black-and-white in their thinking about this topic, from both sides. There are pros and cons for all types of colleges and, regardless of size, most of college comes down to the efforts of the student to make the most of the opportunities available.

I went to a largeish public university. I had a good experience there, found mentors, mostly had smaller classes as it was a more undergrad focused U. But I also never even considered a LAC and in retrospect wonder if I'd have enjoyed that more? I was a 1st gen student and college was very much about what was affordable and nearby and what major had a clear path to a job.

Now I have one kid at a huge public U and another headed to a LAC. The public U kid really wanted the huge sports rah-rah culture but I think he ended up a bit intimidated by the environment and his close friends are still a group from high school. He hasn't pursued any clubs after a few forays in freshman year didn't connect but is involved in an undergrad research project, finds his major challenging, and will be well positioned for his career when he's done. I wish he would engage more with the out-of-the-classroom opportunities but ultimately it's his life and he never was a joiner in HS so I guess I should not be surprised.

The LAC kid has always been very different from her brother. Wants a small, close-knit community. Hates her huge HS. Put a big priority on faculty mentoring and research opportunities. She felt more at-home at the LACs we visited and found the big schools a real turn off for this next step. But she also plans to study abroad for a year and her career will require a master's degree, which will likely be at one of those big universities so she will certainly be exposed to a range of environments. As the complete opposite of #1, she was adamant that she would not go to any college a friend was going to and the final choice between schools came down to specific ECs she wants to be involved in. I think she's the kind of student who will take full advantage of what the LAC offers but is not the sharp-elbowed, competitive student who would push to get everything possible out of a big U. I do wonder if the LAC will feel too small after a while but again, it's her life, not mine.

So your big public kid may have been more of a "joiner" had they been at a SLAC or even one that is 5-8K. Obviously you will never fully know, but the one potential for attending your local state U is that your kid doesn't go outside their comfort zone and meet new people (ie people that didn't attend their HS or the neighboring HS). However, that can happen at a smaller school. My own kid had a freshman roommate from 6 hours away, who for some reason did not room with their friend from HS---it's a smaller private university (6-8K size). However, turns out they were best friends and neither never really made any other friends freshman year---just spent the whole year hanging with their bestie from HS. I suspect one (or both parents) made them have different roommates freshman year in hopes they would broaden their horizons and meet more people, while taking advantage of knowing that everyone your friend meets is now at least also a potential friend/acquantance for the other one, so double the friend group potential. However, they spent all of freshman year just hanging out the two of them, just HS 2.0, 6 hours from home. I personally want more for my kids---they wanted to meet new people and explore, and both are shy, one painfully so.

Where did your painfully shy kid go and how was it?

Univ Rochester
So not really painfully shy, but definately introverted and extremely nervous/anxious once reality of being 2K miles from home set in. Hung with the roommate for first 2 weeks of freshman year and the roomies bestie from home. Nice kids, happy to include my kid, but my kid was more just along because I told them "you fake it until you make it. Gotta put yourself out there the first month of school and go to meals with kids, do things with other students even if it's out of your comfort zone, because if you don't then by end of first month many will have made friends and it will be even harder to do that as an introvert. but at start, everyone is in same boat". Within a month my kid had a group of 4-5 decent friends and by spring semester of freshman year had joined a sorority (one she liked from the start) and didn't find rush terrifying, 3 of her best friends were in the same sorority, she had EC activities to keep her busy. She had found her group by Oct/Nov of freshman year and continued to build from there. Sophomore year she lived in sorority with the 3 friends from her group and continues to grow her group of friends now as a senior.
But if she had ended up anywhere much larger, she might have struggled. She's a highly motivated kid but hates putting herself out there unless she needs to. So lectures of 200+ would not be best for her---she came out of her shell much faster in a smaller environment. By end of freshman year she had found a research group with her favorite prof who aligns with her interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who went to Michigan and majored in something like French Literature. She always points to the fact that she had small classes in her major as proof that going to a big school doesn't equate to having huge classes.

She's not a quant type. So, it doesn't occur to her that since most people at schools like Michigan are majoring in about 20 out of the 100+ possible majors, most people will be in huge classes throughout their four years there. Her experience is unusual.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about, and way to bash your friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who went to Michigan and majored in something like French Literature. She always points to the fact that she had small classes in her major as proof that going to a big school doesn't equate to having huge classes.

She's not a quant type. So, it doesn't occur to her that since most people at schools like Michigan are majoring in about 20 out of the 100+ possible majors, most people will be in huge classes throughout their four years there. Her experience is unusual.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about, and way to bash your friend.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I have a unique perspective, as I spent the first two years of college at a small elite private college (I won't name it but it has been mentioned on this thread several times) and then transferred to a Big 10 school that has also been mentioned, so I saw both up close. I transferred because I wanted to major in an area that my small school did not have a department in. I could have designed an independent study program at my first college, but I think there is real value in being part of a community all studying the same thing, so I transferred to a school that had a spectacular department.

It was great being at a small school the first two years, because the classes were small and there was lots of opportunity for direct student/teacher contact. It was nurturing in a way that was helpful to me, a small-town girl living away from home for the first time. But by the end of my sophomore year I was much more independent, and didn't need the hand-holding. At my Big 10 school, there was much more breadth of classes. Since I was transferring as an upperclassman, I went directly into seminars and upper level classes, so I kind of missed the big gut classes that there undoubtedly are in a large school. I definitely had to be more proactive and self-directed about making contact with professors and advocating for myself at my Big 10 school, just because there are so many more students, but I think that was kind of a good experience. And after college, because there were so many grads from my Big 10 school, I was able to tap into a huge network professionally.

So there are pros and cons of both types of school, it really depends on your student and what you want out of your college experience.

+100 I don't get why some on DCUM are so black-and-white in their thinking about this topic, from both sides. There are pros and cons for all types of colleges and, regardless of size, most of college comes down to the efforts of the student to make the most of the opportunities available.

I went to a largeish public university. I had a good experience there, found mentors, mostly had smaller classes as it was a more undergrad focused U. But I also never even considered a LAC and in retrospect wonder if I'd have enjoyed that more? I was a 1st gen student and college was very much about what was affordable and nearby and what major had a clear path to a job.

Now I have one kid at a huge public U and another headed to a LAC. The public U kid really wanted the huge sports rah-rah culture but I think he ended up a bit intimidated by the environment and his close friends are still a group from high school. He hasn't pursued any clubs after a few forays in freshman year didn't connect but is involved in an undergrad research project, finds his major challenging, and will be well positioned for his career when he's done. I wish he would engage more with the out-of-the-classroom opportunities but ultimately it's his life and he never was a joiner in HS so I guess I should not be surprised.

The LAC kid has always been very different from her brother. Wants a small, close-knit community. Hates her huge HS. Put a big priority on faculty mentoring and research opportunities. She felt more at-home at the LACs we visited and found the big schools a real turn off for this next step. But she also plans to study abroad for a year and her career will require a master's degree, which will likely be at one of those big universities so she will certainly be exposed to a range of environments. As the complete opposite of #1, she was adamant that she would not go to any college a friend was going to and the final choice between schools came down to specific ECs she wants to be involved in. I think she's the kind of student who will take full advantage of what the LAC offers but is not the sharp-elbowed, competitive student who would push to get everything possible out of a big U. I do wonder if the LAC will feel too small after a while but again, it's her life, not mine.

So your big public kid may have been more of a "joiner" had they been at a SLAC or even one that is 5-8K. Obviously you will never fully know, but the one potential for attending your local state U is that your kid doesn't go outside their comfort zone and meet new people (ie people that didn't attend their HS or the neighboring HS). However, that can happen at a smaller school. My own kid had a freshman roommate from 6 hours away, who for some reason did not room with their friend from HS---it's a smaller private university (6-8K size). However, turns out they were best friends and neither never really made any other friends freshman year---just spent the whole year hanging with their bestie from HS. I suspect one (or both parents) made them have different roommates freshman year in hopes they would broaden their horizons and meet more people, while taking advantage of knowing that everyone your friend meets is now at least also a potential friend/acquantance for the other one, so double the friend group potential. However, they spent all of freshman year just hanging out the two of them, just HS 2.0, 6 hours from home. I personally want more for my kids---they wanted to meet new people and explore, and both are shy, one painfully so.

Where did your painfully shy kid go and how was it?

Univ Rochester
So not really painfully shy, but definately introverted and extremely nervous/anxious once reality of being 2K miles from home set in. Hung with the roommate for first 2 weeks of freshman year and the roomies bestie from home. Nice kids, happy to include my kid, but my kid was more just along because I told them "you fake it until you make it. Gotta put yourself out there the first month of school and go to meals with kids, do things with other students even if it's out of your comfort zone, because if you don't then by end of first month many will have made friends and it will be even harder to do that as an introvert. but at start, everyone is in same boat". Within a month my kid had a group of 4-5 decent friends and by spring semester of freshman year had joined a sorority (one she liked from the start) and didn't find rush terrifying, 3 of her best friends were in the same sorority, she had EC activities to keep her busy. She had found her group by Oct/Nov of freshman year and continued to build from there. Sophomore year she lived in sorority with the 3 friends from her group and continues to grow her group of friends now as a senior.
But if she had ended up anywhere much larger, she might have struggled. She's a highly motivated kid but hates putting herself out there unless she needs to. So lectures of 200+ would not be best for her---she came out of her shell much faster in a smaller environment. By end of freshman year she had found a research group with her favorite prof who aligns with her interests.

Thank you. I have an extremely shy DS looking at schools and Rochester is one that we might look at shortly.