Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP. I'm not sure what is meant by sympathetic or not sympathetic. Do you mean public sentiment and a GoFundMe? Or do you mean criminal charges? While there are usually no criminal charges when a parent distractedly kills their child in a hot carseat death or other unusual tragedy, murdering your children in the throes of PPD still leads to criminal charges. Most people think this is proper, whether they have sympathy for the mother or not.

I mean white mom Lindsay is a poor victim and black mom x is a murderous villain.

I think you're overestimating the sympathy towards Clancy. Yes, we can see ourselves in her pre-murder life, and we can feel for her because we also experienced PPD and PPA. That doesn't excuse her from doing something unforgivable. She will rightfully go to prison or an institution. If she doesn't, there will be no sympathy and a lot of outrage.

I am white, and I would like to see all women get more support. I think single Black mom's deserve more support than anyone

If anything " good" can come from this I hope it highlights the need for better postpartum care for all women

Other than in-patient care (which she could have refused) what more are you looking for? Clancy was already in a 5-day a week outpatient therapy program. That is more than most people suffering from mental health issues can access.

I'm guessing MA has an involuntary commitment process where someone can be committed against their will if they are established to be a danger to themselves or others. Hindsight is 20/20, though.

Hindsight is 20/20 and she should’ve been 302’d. What’s so different and unique about her verses someone like Nicholas Cruz though who most likely suffers from mental illness or a murderer who suffered from childhood trauma? No, they may not have PPP or PPD but we shouldn’t minimize other mental illnesses. What about Chris Watts, the father who murdered his family….he clearly wasn’t in his right mind, but we don’t feel any sort of empathy for him. PPD/PPP is unique but so are other mental illnesses. Why do we feel so badly for this woman?? Where do we draw the fine line between downright evil and mentally ill, funny how a white middle class RN could never be evil, but switch the roles to any other demographic and the tune would quickly change.

Yes, the tune would change because women don’t normally do such things.

Yes and just because she is a woman doesn’t make her any better than Nicholas Cruz, or Christipher Watts, etc. Why didn’t blame mental illness on the men’s crimes? They could have been paranoid schizophrenics but no one cared because we already decided they were born evil, there were no excuses.

I don’t blame mental illness or “evil” (let me guess, you think they have “tainted souls,” too?). I blame gun culture.

What do you blame then for these murderers? And Chris Watts didn’t shoot anyone…

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I'm not sure what is meant by sympathetic or not sympathetic. Do you mean public sentiment and a GoFundMe? Or do you mean criminal charges? While there are usually no criminal charges when a parent distractedly kills their child in a hot carseat death or other unusual tragedy, murdering your children in the throes of PPD still leads to criminal charges. Most people think this is proper, whether they have sympathy for the mother or not.

I mean white mom Lindsay is a poor victim and black mom x is a murderous villain.

I think you're overestimating the sympathy towards Clancy. Yes, we can see ourselves in her pre-murder life, and we can feel for her because we also experienced PPD and PPA. That doesn't excuse her from doing something unforgivable. She will rightfully go to prison or an institution. If she doesn't, there will be no sympathy and a lot of outrage.

I am white, and I would like to see all women get more support. I think single Black mom's deserve more support than anyone

If anything " good" can come from this I hope it highlights the need for better postpartum care for all women

Other than in-patient care (which she could have refused) what more are you looking for? Clancy was already in a 5-day a week outpatient therapy program. That is more than most people suffering from mental health issues can access.

I'm guessing MA has an involuntary commitment process where someone can be committed against their will if they are established to be a danger to themselves or others. Hindsight is 20/20, though.

Hindsight is 20/20 and she should’ve been 302’d. What’s so different and unique about her verses someone like Nicholas Cruz though who most likely suffers from mental illness or a murderer who suffered from childhood trauma? No, they may not have PPP or PPD but we shouldn’t minimize other mental illnesses. What about Chris Watts, the father who murdered his family….he clearly wasn’t in his right mind, but we don’t feel any sort of empathy for him. PPD/PPP is unique but so are other mental illnesses. Why do we feel so badly for this woman?? Where do we draw the fine line between downright evil and mentally ill, funny how a white middle class RN could never be evil, but switch the roles to any other demographic and the tune would quickly change.

Yes, the tune would change because women don’t normally do such things.

Yes and just because she is a woman doesn’t make her any better than Nicholas Cruz, or Christipher Watts, etc. Why didn’t blame mental illness on the men’s crimes? They could have been paranoid schizophrenics but no one cared because we already decided they were born evil, there were no excuses.

I don’t blame mental illness or “evil” (let me guess, you think they have “tainted souls,” too?). I blame gun culture.

What do you blame then for these murderers? And Chris Watts didn’t shoot anyone…

We need more support for everyone, not just women. Many of us have no community anymore, we have no one to depend on. I miss the days where knew and truly cared for our neighbors. There were no cliques, no social media forcing contrived images down our throats. We have all become monsters in a way and we don’t even realize it. Oh sure, we can say we would have helped Lindsay Clancy, right….We have become a society of self absorbed narcissists, all of us, including the physicians who pretend to care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

Why are you blaming millennials here? Blame the generation that raised them.

Here’s a great example. My grandparents were heavily involved in my life. My dad traveled a lot for work and my mom wanted an extra set of hands. My sister and I both now have kids and my mom is nowhere to be found. Sister and I both settled down within 20 miles of where my mom lived / we grew up… and mom decided to move 2 hours away and sold off her paid off house. She has never once watched our kids or even offered. She and her boyfriend are 55 (parents have been divorced for 20ish years, retired (him) and was a SAH parent (her), with all the time in the world. They don’t travel or volunteer or have much of a social circle. They are just… chillin in the woods, lol. But what about all the help she received when she was in the thick of it? To take and take, not “pay it back”, and then complain she doesn’t have a relationship with her grandkids is absurd. Both my sister and I have grown our own villages and of course, we have each other. But to slam an entire generation when they are not receiving the “village” that they grew up seeing, is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

While this seems harsh and overly simplified to me, I do believe social media and the performative parenting culture is a contributing factor. Studies say Instagram increased suicide rates in teens, it’s not a huge leap to say it’s affected young parents as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

Why are you blaming millennials here? Blame the generation that raised them.

Here’s a great example. My grandparents were heavily involved in my life. My dad traveled a lot for work and my mom wanted an extra set of hands. My sister and I both now have kids and my mom is nowhere to be found. Sister and I both settled down within 20 miles of where my mom lived / we grew up… and mom decided to move 2 hours away and sold off her paid off house. She has never once watched our kids or even offered. She and her boyfriend are 55 (parents have been divorced for 20ish years, retired (him) and was a SAH parent (her), with all the time in the world. They don’t travel or volunteer or have much of a social circle. They are just… chillin in the woods, lol. But what about all the help she received when she was in the thick of it? To take and take, not “pay it back”, and then complain she doesn’t have a relationship with her grandkids is absurd. Both my sister and I have grown our own villages and of course, we have each other. But to slam an entire generation when they are not receiving the “village” that they grew up seeing, is ridiculous.

I believe we are sold a false picture of what parenting, particularly parenting in this day and age, actually involves. Generally speaking, we are not prepared for parenting, you can blame our parents, but I blame our current social media obsessed society/culture. It’s really gone to sh!t in the past 20 years or so. People can’t even support themselves, parenting is definitely not for everyone, even white middle class nurses. Many people have zero idea of what parenting involves. I used to babysit as a young teenager, do kids even babysit anymore? No, because they must post to instagram all day, no time for learning useful life skills.

[Anonymous]

She seemed very determined and didn’t hesitate after killing the first child or even the second. There was no pause after the first killing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

Why are you blaming millennials here? Blame the generation that raised them.

Here’s a great example. My grandparents were heavily involved in my life. My dad traveled a lot for work and my mom wanted an extra set of hands. My sister and I both now have kids and my mom is nowhere to be found. Sister and I both settled down within 20 miles of where my mom lived / we grew up… and mom decided to move 2 hours away and sold off her paid off house. She has never once watched our kids or even offered. She and her boyfriend are 55 (parents have been divorced for 20ish years, retired (him) and was a SAH parent (her), with all the time in the world. They don’t travel or volunteer or have much of a social circle. They are just… chillin in the woods, lol. But what about all the help she received when she was in the thick of it? To take and take, not “pay it back”, and then complain she doesn’t have a relationship with her grandkids is absurd. Both my sister and I have grown our own villages and of course, we have each other. But to slam an entire generation when they are not receiving the “village” that they grew up seeing, is ridiculous.

I believe we are sold a false picture of what parenting, particularly parenting in this day and age, actually involves. Generally speaking, we are not prepared for parenting, you can blame our parents, but I blame our current social media obsessed society/culture. It’s really gone to sh!t in the past 20 years or so. People can’t even support themselves, parenting is definitely not for everyone, even white middle class nurses. Many people have zero idea of what parenting involves. I used to babysit as a young teenager, do kids even babysit anymore? No, because they must post to instagram all day, no time for learning useful life skills.

That is a really odd take to have. Parents of yesteryear were much younger and had fewer years of formal education. Yet, I don’t think they were any less prepared to be parents than ones in the modern day.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Andrea Yates became a more sympathetic figure over time, as more details came out about her husband and there was increased public awareness about PPP. I don't recall any outrage whatsoever about the verdict at her second trial. It's probably because of the groundwork her case laid that Clancy is being treated more sympathetically from the off.

I can be both horrified by what happened to the Yates children and sympathetic to Andrea Yates. She was completely out of her mind. And to be restored to her mind, she then had to come to grips with what she'd done while out of it, which sounds like an unspeakable hell. Apparently she refuses to be reviewed for release from the mental hospital every year even though she might be eligible at this point.

What a saint. 🙄🙄

I have no sympathy for these murderers. I know plenty of less-affluent women with the same (if not more) mental struggles, and they managed to not kill their children.

I also doubt you all would give them such a pass anyway.

I’ll save my sympathy for the dead children and the less-sympathetic mothers out there.

You have no idea what mental struggles Clancy was facing. Your comment about “less-affluent” women having greater mental stress than Clancy suggests you think that affluent women can’t / don’t have legitimate mental illness. Mental illness doesn’t discriminate, but dismissible attitudes like yours may make it harder for a very sick affluent woman to be taken seriously.

They have the resources that less affluent (and less sympathetic) women don’t have. Yet, they get all the sympathy.

Please.

Show me a less-affluent PPD-suffering Black women who got the same level of forgiveness and sympathy that these white women get………..

Yep. And her black husband raising $600k in 4 days? Yeah right.

We sympathize with people who look like us and whom we think we can relate to. I’m not saying that’s a good thing, but that’s the natural and expected reaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

Why are you blaming millennials here? Blame the generation that raised them.

Here’s a great example. My grandparents were heavily involved in my life. My dad traveled a lot for work and my mom wanted an extra set of hands. My sister and I both now have kids and my mom is nowhere to be found. Sister and I both settled down within 20 miles of where my mom lived / we grew up… and mom decided to move 2 hours away and sold off her paid off house. She has never once watched our kids or even offered. She and her boyfriend are 55 (parents have been divorced for 20ish years, retired (him) and was a SAH parent (her), with all the time in the world. They don’t travel or volunteer or have much of a social circle. They are just… chillin in the woods, lol. But what about all the help she received when she was in the thick of it? To take and take, not “pay it back”, and then complain she doesn’t have a relationship with her grandkids is absurd. Both my sister and I have grown our own villages and of course, we have each other. But to slam an entire generation when they are not receiving the “village” that they grew up seeing, is ridiculous.

I believe we are sold a false picture of what parenting, particularly parenting in this day and age, actually involves. Generally speaking, we are not prepared for parenting, you can blame our parents, but I blame our current social media obsessed society/culture. It’s really gone to sh!t in the past 20 years or so. People can’t even support themselves, parenting is definitely not for everyone, even white middle class nurses. Many people have zero idea of what parenting involves. I used to babysit as a young teenager, do kids even babysit anymore? No, because they must post to instagram all day, no time for learning useful life skills.

That is a really odd take to have. Parents of yesteryear were much younger and had fewer years of formal education. Yet, I don’t think they were any less prepared to be parents than ones in the modern day.

These older parents today aren’t necessarily wiser or more experienced. Quite the contrary, because our society has become so self absorbed, we no longer help babysit as teenagers, we aren’t exposed to babies and young kids as much as we were in past generations. We are so career obsessed and status obsessed that when we finally decide to have a baby, we are going in blindly many times. Even in this case, working as a L&D RN is not equal to being a mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

Why are you blaming millennials here? Blame the generation that raised them.

Here’s a great example. My grandparents were heavily involved in my life. My dad traveled a lot for work and my mom wanted an extra set of hands. My sister and I both now have kids and my mom is nowhere to be found. Sister and I both settled down within 20 miles of where my mom lived / we grew up… and mom decided to move 2 hours away and sold off her paid off house. She has never once watched our kids or even offered. She and her boyfriend are 55 (parents have been divorced for 20ish years, retired (him) and was a SAH parent (her), with all the time in the world. They don’t travel or volunteer or have much of a social circle. They are just… chillin in the woods, lol. But what about all the help she received when she was in the thick of it? To take and take, not “pay it back”, and then complain she doesn’t have a relationship with her grandkids is absurd. Both my sister and I have grown our own villages and of course, we have each other. But to slam an entire generation when they are not receiving the “village” that they grew up seeing, is ridiculous.

I believe we are sold a false picture of what parenting, particularly parenting in this day and age, actually involves. Generally speaking, we are not prepared for parenting, you can blame our parents, but I blame our current social media obsessed society/culture. It’s really gone to sh!t in the past 20 years or so. People can’t even support themselves, parenting is definitely not for everyone, even white middle class nurses. Many people have zero idea of what parenting involves. I used to babysit as a young teenager, do kids even babysit anymore? No, because they must post to instagram all day, no time for learning useful life skills.

That is a really odd take to have. Parents of yesteryear were much younger and had fewer years of formal education. Yet, I don’t think they were any less prepared to be parents than ones in the modern day.

The huge difference between then and now is the majority of parents back then, mothers in particular, weren’t self obsessed narcissists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

Why are you blaming millennials here? Blame the generation that raised them.

Here’s a great example. My grandparents were heavily involved in my life. My dad traveled a lot for work and my mom wanted an extra set of hands. My sister and I both now have kids and my mom is nowhere to be found. Sister and I both settled down within 20 miles of where my mom lived / we grew up… and mom decided to move 2 hours away and sold off her paid off house. She has never once watched our kids or even offered. She and her boyfriend are 55 (parents have been divorced for 20ish years, retired (him) and was a SAH parent (her), with all the time in the world. They don’t travel or volunteer or have much of a social circle. They are just… chillin in the woods, lol. But what about all the help she received when she was in the thick of it? To take and take, not “pay it back”, and then complain she doesn’t have a relationship with her grandkids is absurd. Both my sister and I have grown our own villages and of course, we have each other. But to slam an entire generation when they are not receiving the “village” that they grew up seeing, is ridiculous.

I believe we are sold a false picture of what parenting, particularly parenting in this day and age, actually involves. Generally speaking, we are not prepared for parenting, you can blame our parents, but I blame our current social media obsessed society/culture. It’s really gone to sh!t in the past 20 years or so. People can’t even support themselves, parenting is definitely not for everyone, even white middle class nurses. Many people have zero idea of what parenting involves. I used to babysit as a young teenager, do kids even babysit anymore? No, because they must post to instagram all day, no time for learning useful life skills.

That is a really odd take to have. Parents of yesteryear were much younger and had fewer years of formal education. Yet, I don’t think they were any less prepared to be parents than ones in the modern day.

The huge difference between then and now is the majority of parents back then, mothers in particular, weren’t self obsessed narcissists.

We get it, you think women belong barefoot and pregnant, in the kitchen rather than being “career obsessed.” They should spend their teens and childhood learning childrearing while boys and men should go do, well, whatever they want. Am I correct?

[Anonymous]

We don’t even realize that we have become insufferable narcissists because it’s the norm now. Narcissists make crappy parents, Even the covert ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may sound callous but the constant posting on social media, the keeping up with the Joneses, the constant look at me pregnancies and prop babies and portrayal of a perfect family life is largely to blame here. I would venture to say very few, if any, millennials have the life skills, stamina, and grit to raise three kids successfully. They live on social media and if and when they finally encounter real life they sink. These people had no business having kids.

Why are you blaming millennials here? Blame the generation that raised them.

Here’s a great example. My grandparents were heavily involved in my life. My dad traveled a lot for work and my mom wanted an extra set of hands. My sister and I both now have kids and my mom is nowhere to be found. Sister and I both settled down within 20 miles of where my mom lived / we grew up… and mom decided to move 2 hours away and sold off her paid off house. She has never once watched our kids or even offered. She and her boyfriend are 55 (parents have been divorced for 20ish years, retired (him) and was a SAH parent (her), with all the time in the world. They don’t travel or volunteer or have much of a social circle. They are just… chillin in the woods, lol. But what about all the help she received when she was in the thick of it? To take and take, not “pay it back”, and then complain she doesn’t have a relationship with her grandkids is absurd. Both my sister and I have grown our own villages and of course, we have each other. But to slam an entire generation when they are not receiving the “village” that they grew up seeing, is ridiculous.

I believe we are sold a false picture of what parenting, particularly parenting in this day and age, actually involves. Generally speaking, we are not prepared for parenting, you can blame our parents, but I blame our current social media obsessed society/culture. It’s really gone to sh!t in the past 20 years or so. People can’t even support themselves, parenting is definitely not for everyone, even white middle class nurses. Many people have zero idea of what parenting involves. I used to babysit as a young teenager, do kids even babysit anymore? No, because they must post to instagram all day, no time for learning useful life skills.

That is a really odd take to have. Parents of yesteryear were much younger and had fewer years of formal education. Yet, I don’t think they were any less prepared to be parents than ones in the modern day.

The huge difference between then and now is the majority of parents back then, mothers in particular, weren’t self obsessed narcissists.

We get it, you think women belong barefoot and pregnant, in the kitchen rather than being “career obsessed.” They should spend their teens and childhood learning childrearing while boys and men should go do, well, whatever they want. Am I correct?

No, maybe we can’t be perfect or even good at everything. The truth hurts. Maybe some people shouldn’t have three babies in three years or whatever ridiculous number of kids they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don’t even realize that we have become insufferable narcissists because it’s the norm now. Narcissists make crappy parents, Even the covert ones.

What does this even mean? I swear, “narcissist” is the most overused word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t even realize that we have become insufferable narcissists because it’s the norm now. Narcissists make crappy parents, Even the covert ones.

What does this even mean? I swear, “narcissist” is the most overused word.

Look it up. May be overused but it’s fitting, it’s the perfect word to describe what we as a society have become.