62 yo man killed in Silver Spring garage

[Anonymous]

You’re just never going to convince the “defund the police” folks. They really believe that police officers just rampantly kill people who are not a threat to them. It’s actually been really interesting watching news stories about people dying or being injured during police encounters in the past year or so, then later when the camera footage is released, the media loses interest because guess what — the camera footage shows that the criminal was armed, aggressive, and a huge threat to the cops. Those cameras almost always aren’t working out like the “defund the police” folks had hoped because they show that police use of force is almost always justified.

So the idea that police wantonly kill innocent black people is total BS but there is an entire industry devoted to convincing people that it is happening. And SS will continue to spiral into a place where fewer and fewer people want to live and visit because there are fewer police and the crime will get worse.

[Anonymous]

How does a man getting murdered in a parking garage become about the MCPD?

Is the idea that fewer people will be murdered in parking garages if there were fewer MCPD cops on the streets?

That’s certainly not a theory I’d like to test if I lived in DTSS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

No. the system working would have been the "good" police stopping the beating and reporting the bad cop. That did not happen, all of them are still cops. A cop that beat a citizen and was found guilty is still a cop.

These examples are normal, it's normal for cops to stand and watch their fellow officers do things that are horrible and don't report it unless a citizen catches it on tape. Then it's normal for the cops to remain cops. This is the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re just never going to convince the “defund the police” folks. They really believe that police officers just rampantly kill people who are not a threat to them. It’s actually been really interesting watching news stories about people dying or being injured during police encounters in the past year or so, then later when the camera footage is released, the media loses interest because guess what — the camera footage shows that the criminal was armed, aggressive, and a huge threat to the cops. Those cameras almost always aren’t working out like the “defund the police” folks had hoped because they show that police use of force is almost always justified.

So the idea that police wantonly kill innocent black people is total BS but there is an entire industry devoted to convincing people that it is happening. And SS will continue to spiral into a place where fewer and fewer people want to live and visit because there are fewer police and the crime will get worse.

None of the "thin blue line" folks are going to do anything but hide the bad policing and make excuses for it.

As long as we just let W kids have drinking and drug parties ... oh wait, that's find in your book, it's just the SS kids that need policing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

No. the system working would have been the "good" police stopping the beating and reporting the bad cop. That did not happen, all of them are still cops. A cop that beat a citizen and was found guilty is still a cop.

These examples are normal, it's normal for cops to stand and watch their fellow officers do things that are horrible and don't report it unless a citizen catches it on tape. Then it's normal for the cops to remain cops. This is the norm.

+1

One of my brothers is a local LEO. He sees his fellow officers do reprehensible things, but believes that he’d be in danger for reporting even the worst of it, let alone all of it. What’s worse is that we are AA. He’ll comment among us about how the police reform is so badly needed, but his social media is very pro-Blue Lives Matter. Where he lives and works, there are few AA or other Black people and almost none of his colleagues are Black. The people being abused by the cops are almost all Latino and/or indigenous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

No. the system working would have been the "good" police stopping the beating and reporting the bad cop. That did not happen, all of them are still cops. A cop that beat a citizen and was found guilty is still a cop.

These examples are normal, it's normal for cops to stand and watch their fellow officers do things that are horrible and don't report it unless a citizen catches it on tape. Then it's normal for the cops to remain cops. This is the norm.

Thinking they are the norm is not the same as them actually being the norm.

Your mind won’t be changed. You hate all police. Fine. Fortunately, they’ll continue to serve regardless of how you or others feel about them. That’s the reality, backed up by all the MCPD-specific data spread throughout this thread. Can you provide one… just one… actual fact or statistic to back up your hate? I doubt that greatly.

DTSS’s increasing crime is a problem. The council’s handling of MCPD is a problem. Some of us would like to solve these problems, which includes taking a hard look at what the police can do to help. Right now, the council operates with a “No police = no problem” mentality. It’s illogical and ignores the fact MCPD has been a leader among police departments for decades, until the council decided to blame them for bad policing everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re just never going to convince the “defund the police” folks. They really believe that police officers just rampantly kill people who are not a threat to them. It’s actually been really interesting watching news stories about people dying or being injured during police encounters in the past year or so, then later when the camera footage is released, the media loses interest because guess what — the camera footage shows that the criminal was armed, aggressive, and a huge threat to the cops. Those cameras almost always aren’t working out like the “defund the police” folks had hoped because they show that police use of force is almost always justified.

So the idea that police wantonly kill innocent black people is total BS but there is an entire industry devoted to convincing people that it is happening. And SS will continue to spiral into a place where fewer and fewer people want to live and visit because there are fewer police and the crime will get worse.

None of the "thin blue line" folks are going to do anything but hide the bad policing and make excuses for it.

As long as we just let W kids have drinking and drug parties ... oh wait, that's find in your book, it's just the SS kids that need policing.

Very rarely are W kids shooting or stabbing people. Cops go where the violence is.

Now, W kids absolutely drink/drug and drive and police know that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

No. the system working would have been the "good" police stopping the beating and reporting the bad cop. That did not happen, all of them are still cops. A cop that beat a citizen and was found guilty is still a cop.

These examples are normal, it's normal for cops to stand and watch their fellow officers do things that are horrible and don't report it unless a citizen catches it on tape. Then it's normal for the cops to remain cops. This is the norm.

+1

One of my brothers is a local LEO. He sees his fellow officers do reprehensible things, but believes that he’d be in danger for reporting even the worst of it, let alone all of it. What’s worse is that we are AA. He’ll comment among us about how the police reform is so badly needed, but his social media is very pro-Blue Lives Matter. Where he lives and works, there are few AA or other Black people and almost none of his colleagues are Black. The people being abused by the cops are almost all Latino and/or indigenous.

This is also our experience with out LEO family. When they do report things they are called narcs, troublemakers, “not a company man”, all kinds of crazy stuff. You definitely threaten your ability to get backup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re just never going to convince the “defund the police” folks. They really believe that police officers just rampantly kill people who are not a threat to them. It’s actually been really interesting watching news stories about people dying or being injured during police encounters in the past year or so, then later when the camera footage is released, the media loses interest because guess what — the camera footage shows that the criminal was armed, aggressive, and a huge threat to the cops. Those cameras almost always aren’t working out like the “defund the police” folks had hoped because they show that police use of force is almost always justified.

So the idea that police wantonly kill innocent black people is total BS but there is an entire industry devoted to convincing people that it is happening. And SS will continue to spiral into a place where fewer and fewer people want to live and visit because there are fewer police and the crime will get worse.

None of the "thin blue line" folks are going to do anything but hide the bad policing and make excuses for it.

As long as we just let W kids have drinking and drug parties ... oh wait, that's find in your book, it's just the SS kids that need policing.

Very rarely are W kids shooting or stabbing people. Cops go where the violence is.

Now, W kids absolutely drink/drug and drive and police know that.

Selective policing … I know 4 W kids who died in the past 2 years due to drinking /drugs.

This is exactly the problem you selectively police by race based on the false assumption that W kids are not killing people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

No. the system working would have been the "good" police stopping the beating and reporting the bad cop. That did not happen, all of them are still cops. A cop that beat a citizen and was found guilty is still a cop.

These examples are normal, it's normal for cops to stand and watch their fellow officers do things that are horrible and don't report it unless a citizen catches it on tape. Then it's normal for the cops to remain cops. This is the norm.

Thinking they are the norm is not the same as them actually being the norm.

Your mind won’t be changed. You hate all police. Fine. Fortunately, they’ll continue to serve regardless of how you or others feel about them. That’s the reality, backed up by all the MCPD-specific data spread throughout this thread. Can you provide one… just one… actual fact or statistic to back up your hate? I doubt that greatly.

DTSS’s increasing crime is a problem. The council’s handling of MCPD is a problem. Some of us would like to solve these problems, which includes taking a hard look at what the police can do to help. Right now, the council operates with a “No police = no problem” mentality. It’s illogical and ignores the fact MCPD has been a leader among police departments for decades, until the council decided to blame them for bad policing everywhere.

You are asking for data on behavior that is hidden and not reported.see how myopic you are.

The “council” oh you’re one of those cops… are you marky mark?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

No. the system working would have been the "good" police stopping the beating and reporting the bad cop. That did not happen, all of them are still cops. A cop that beat a citizen and was found guilty is still a cop.

These examples are normal, it's normal for cops to stand and watch their fellow officers do things that are horrible and don't report it unless a citizen catches it on tape. Then it's normal for the cops to remain cops. This is the norm.

Thinking they are the norm is not the same as them actually being the norm.

Your mind won’t be changed. You hate all police. Fine. Fortunately, they’ll continue to serve regardless of how you or others feel about them. That’s the reality, backed up by all the MCPD-specific data spread throughout this thread. Can you provide one… just one… actual fact or statistic to back up your hate? I doubt that greatly.

DTSS’s increasing crime is a problem. The council’s handling of MCPD is a problem. Some of us would like to solve these problems, which includes taking a hard look at what the police can do to help. Right now, the council operates with a “No police = no problem” mentality. It’s illogical and ignores the fact MCPD has been a leader among police departments for decades, until the council decided to blame them for bad policing everywhere.

You are asking for data on behavior that is hidden and not reported.see how myopic you are.

The “council” oh you’re one of those cops… are you marky mark?

I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Once again, do you have anything substantive to contribute to this conversation?

As for “myopic,” failing to look at data and preferring to stick to your own unsubstantiated view is myopic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re just never going to convince the “defund the police” folks. They really believe that police officers just rampantly kill people who are not a threat to them. It’s actually been really interesting watching news stories about people dying or being injured during police encounters in the past year or so, then later when the camera footage is released, the media loses interest because guess what — the camera footage shows that the criminal was armed, aggressive, and a huge threat to the cops. Those cameras almost always aren’t working out like the “defund the police” folks had hoped because they show that police use of force is almost always justified.

So the idea that police wantonly kill innocent black people is total BS but there is an entire industry devoted to convincing people that it is happening. And SS will continue to spiral into a place where fewer and fewer people want to live and visit because there are fewer police and the crime will get worse.

None of the "thin blue line" folks are going to do anything but hide the bad policing and make excuses for it.

As long as we just let W kids have drinking and drug parties ... oh wait, that's find in your book, it's just the SS kids that need policing.

Very rarely are W kids shooting or stabbing people. Cops go where the violence is.

Now, W kids absolutely drink/drug and drive and police know that.

Selective policing … I know 4 W kids who died in the past 2 years due to drinking /drugs.

This is exactly the problem you selectively police by race based on the false assumption that W kids are not killing people.

As you just admitted, W kids over the past two years have not in fact killed anyone but themselves and one of the dealer of one kids who died of a fentanyl OD was prosecuted and he was not a “W kid”.

But I beg you to explain to me what any of this has to do with a dad getting murdered in the stairwell of a popular parking garage in Downtown Silver Spring in early evening hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re just never going to convince the “defund the police” folks. They really believe that police officers just rampantly kill people who are not a threat to them. It’s actually been really interesting watching news stories about people dying or being injured during police encounters in the past year or so, then later when the camera footage is released, the media loses interest because guess what — the camera footage shows that the criminal was armed, aggressive, and a huge threat to the cops. Those cameras almost always aren’t working out like the “defund the police” folks had hoped because they show that police use of force is almost always justified.

So the idea that police wantonly kill innocent black people is total BS but there is an entire industry devoted to convincing people that it is happening. And SS will continue to spiral into a place where fewer and fewer people want to live and visit because there are fewer police and the crime will get worse.

You ever heard of the "broken windows" theory of policing? ask yourself why it doesn't get applied to the police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re just never going to convince the “defund the police” folks. They really believe that police officers just rampantly kill people who are not a threat to them. It’s actually been really interesting watching news stories about people dying or being injured during police encounters in the past year or so, then later when the camera footage is released, the media loses interest because guess what — the camera footage shows that the criminal was armed, aggressive, and a huge threat to the cops. Those cameras almost always aren’t working out like the “defund the police” folks had hoped because they show that police use of force is almost always justified.

So the idea that police wantonly kill innocent black people is total BS but there is an entire industry devoted to convincing people that it is happening. And SS will continue to spiral into a place where fewer and fewer people want to live and visit because there are fewer police and the crime will get worse.

None of the "thin blue line" folks are going to do anything but hide the bad policing and make excuses for it.

As long as we just let W kids have drinking and drug parties ... oh wait, that's find in your book, it's just the SS kids that need policing.

Very rarely are W kids shooting or stabbing people. Cops go where the violence is.

Now, W kids absolutely drink/drug and drive and police know that.

Selective policing … I know 4 W kids who died in the past 2 years due to drinking /drugs.

This is exactly the problem you selectively police by race based on the false assumption that W kids are not killing people.

As you just admitted, W kids over the past two years have not in fact killed anyone but themselves and one of the dealer of one kids who died of a fentanyl OD was prosecuted and he was not a “W kid”.

But I beg you to explain to me what any of this has to do with a dad getting murdered in the stairwell of a popular parking garage in Downtown Silver Spring in early evening hours?

Giving your friend a pill that kills them is killing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

No. the system working would have been the "good" police stopping the beating and reporting the bad cop. That did not happen, all of them are still cops. A cop that beat a citizen and was found guilty is still a cop.

These examples are normal, it's normal for cops to stand and watch their fellow officers do things that are horrible and don't report it unless a citizen catches it on tape. Then it's normal for the cops to remain cops. This is the norm.

Thinking they are the norm is not the same as them actually being the norm.

Your mind won’t be changed. You hate all police. Fine. Fortunately, they’ll continue to serve regardless of how you or others feel about them. That’s the reality, backed up by all the MCPD-specific data spread throughout this thread. Can you provide one… just one… actual fact or statistic to back up your hate? I doubt that greatly.

DTSS’s increasing crime is a problem. The council’s handling of MCPD is a problem. Some of us would like to solve these problems, which includes taking a hard look at what the police can do to help. Right now, the council operates with a “No police = no problem” mentality. It’s illogical and ignores the fact MCPD has been a leader among police departments for decades, until the council decided to blame them for bad policing everywhere.

You are asking for data on behavior that is hidden and not reported.see how myopic you are.

The “council” oh you’re one of those cops… are you marky mark?

I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Once again, do you have anything substantive to contribute to this conversation?

As for “myopic,” failing to look at data and preferring to stick to your own unsubstantiated view is myopic.

Hi marky mark!