62 yo man killed in Silver Spring garage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.

The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.

Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.

Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.

There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.

Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.

That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.

It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.

Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.

Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.

So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.

It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.

The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.

Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.

Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.

There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.

Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.

That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.

It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.

Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.

Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.

So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.

It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "ubiquitous", doesn't it? If you're not worried about police brutality happening to you, then it's a rare occurrence. If you are worried, on the other hand, then...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.

The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.

Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.

Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.

There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.

Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.

That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.

It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.

Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.

Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.

So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.

It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.

All it shows is that it’s not reported. Think blue line! Blue lives matter!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.

The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.

Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.

Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.

There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.

Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.

That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.

It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.

Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.

Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.

So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.

It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "ubiquitous", doesn't it? If you're not worried about police brutality happening to you, then it's a rare occurrence. If you are worried, on the other hand, then...

Ubiquitous = existing or being everywhere at the same time, constantly encountered, widespread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.

The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.

Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.

Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.

There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.

^^^and that's just shootings. It doesn't account for other deaths, like deaths from police chases (e.g., Karon Hylton-Brown), or deaths from being beaten, shackled, and tased (e.g., Ronald Greene).

My point was that because the media covers these things in such detail, and people repost a million times on social media, you think it's far more common than it is. Police are called to the scene of danger, and most officer-involved shootings are because the person was threatening someone else, or the police officer, with a deadly weapon. And as much as some people hate the idea, police have the right to self-defense.

The universe of incidents we all should be looking at is officer-involved deaths where the person was not an immediate threat to others (including the officer). That universe is tiny, but there is a need for improved training there. Overwhelmingly, though, they are already held accountable when they fail to follow both internal departmental policy and/or break the law in terms of how far their right to self defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My point was that because the media covers these things in such detail, and people repost a million times on social media, you think it's far more common than it is. Police are called to the scene of danger, and most officer-involved shootings are because the person was threatening someone else, or the police officer, with a deadly weapon. And as much as some people hate the idea, police have the right to self-defense.

The universe of incidents we all should be looking at is officer-involved deaths where the person was not an immediate threat to others (including the officer). That universe is tiny, but there is a need for improved training there. Overwhelmingly, though, they are already held accountable when they fail to follow both internal departmental policy and/or break the law in terms of how far their right to self defense.

The media does not cover these things in detail. Every year there is less and less local media. And local media coverage generally consists of reprinting the press release from the police. Does it happen often enough to make people justifiably afraid? Yes, it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My point was that because the media covers these things in such detail, and people repost a million times on social media, you think it's far more common than it is. Police are called to the scene of danger, and most officer-involved shootings are because the person was threatening someone else, or the police officer, with a deadly weapon. And as much as some people hate the idea, police have the right to self-defense.

The universe of incidents we all should be looking at is officer-involved deaths where the person was not an immediate threat to others (including the officer). That universe is tiny, but there is a need for improved training there. Overwhelmingly, though, they are already held accountable when they fail to follow both internal departmental policy and/or break the law in terms of how far their right to self defense.

The media does not cover these things in detail. Every year there is less and less local media. And local media coverage generally consists of reprinting the press release from the police. Does it happen often enough to make people justifiably afraid? Yes, it does.

No. It’s an irrational fear. You are much more likely to be injured driving your car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My point was that because the media covers these things in such detail, and people repost a million times on social media, you think it's far more common than it is. Police are called to the scene of danger, and most officer-involved shootings are because the person was threatening someone else, or the police officer, with a deadly weapon. And as much as some people hate the idea, police have the right to self-defense.

The universe of incidents we all should be looking at is officer-involved deaths where the person was not an immediate threat to others (including the officer). That universe is tiny, but there is a need for improved training there. Overwhelmingly, though, they are already held accountable when they fail to follow both internal departmental policy and/or break the law in terms of how far their right to self defense.

The media does not cover these things in detail. Every year there is less and less local media. And local media coverage generally consists of reprinting the press release from the police. Does it happen often enough to make people justifiably afraid? Yes, it does.

No. It’s an irrational fear. You are much more likely to be injured driving your car.

Assuming that you're interested in fixing the problem - you don't fix the problem by saying there isn't one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.

The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.

Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.

Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.

There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.

^^^and that's just shootings. It doesn't account for other deaths, like deaths from police chases (e.g., Karon Hylton-Brown), or deaths from being beaten, shackled, and tased (e.g., Ronald Greene).

My point was that because the media covers these things in such detail, and people repost a million times on social media, you think it's far more common than it is. Police are called to the scene of danger, and most officer-involved shootings are because the person was threatening someone else, or the police officer, with a deadly weapon. And as much as some people hate the idea, police have the right to self-defense.

The universe of incidents we all should be looking at is officer-involved deaths where the person was not an immediate threat to others (including the officer). That universe is tiny, but there is a need for improved training there. Overwhelmingly, though, they are already held accountable when they fail to follow both internal departmental policy and/or break the law in terms of how far their right to self defense.

Ever time a cop is killed it is studied and analyzed and processes and procedures change. This is not done when citizens are killed, beaten or falsely arrested/detained. This is because cops falsify their reports because they don’t want to get disciplined and their friends cover for them.

[Anonymous]

Can you point me to media that reports on people being falsely beaten or detained? Since it is so over reported.

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Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.

There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.

And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.

WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.

Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.

Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?

DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.

^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.

They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.

What does that mean?

Do you know what pretext stops are?

FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.

So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.

Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.

It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.

Nobody has died in MoCo from a traffic stop.

Again thanks for showing your white guy ignorance. Are you saying nobody has been unlawfully beaten? Unlawfully detained? Jailed without cause and left there because they can’t afford bail and lost their job, then their house?

Keep going maybe by the end of this you’ll have a little bit of an education.

I said nobody died in a MoCo traffic stop. You want to expand the conversation. Fine. Here are the facts for MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

They've had body worn cameras since 2015. They have had mobile car video since the early 2000s. The camera footage exonerates officers far more often than it catches anyone in a bad act.

In the past six years, MCPD has conducted more than 376,000 traffic stops.
Of those, they searched about 11,000 people. Or about 3%.
Of those stops, they arrested about 6,800 people. Or about 2%.
Of those stops, 85% of them lasted less than 5 minutes.
12% of those stops lasted up to 15 minutes.
And less than 1% of them lasted more than a half hour.

The outcomes of the stops average between 60% and 69% warnings rather than citations. Those outcomes are relatively consistent by race/ ethnicity. Hispanic drivers get the lowest % of warnings (and therefore more citations)https://app.powerbigov.us/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTBhNDYzMTMtZTRhMy00OWRkLTk3ZGItZmJlMGQ2OTRjMDQzIiwidCI6IjYwYWZlOWUyLTQ5Y2QtNDliMS04ODUxLTY0ZGYwMjc2YTJlOCJ9&pageName=ReportSection

Monetary bail/bond has almost completely been abolished in Montgomery County since 2016. Yes, people with serious offenses get bond, but it's often unsecured or at 10%. https://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/News%20Documents/Rules_Committee_Letter_on_Pretrial_Release.pdf

We have a bunch of problem solving courts, like drug court and mental health court. If people complete the programs, they get zero record.
We have similar diversion programs in jail, too, for everyone. IPSA and ACS. Complete those and get your case stetted or nolle prossed.


In terms of "unlawfully beating people up." The police responded to 187,000 calls in 2021 and used force 593 times. That's 0.3% of all calls.
Of those 593 incidents, there were 25 complaints made. Or 4%.https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/Resources/Files/Annual-Reports/UseOfForce/2021%20MCPD%20Use%20of%20Force%20Report.pdf
None of those were sustained in 2021. Perhaps some are still under investigation and the outcomes will be reported in the 2022 report.

There may be more once the MCPD becomes subject to the new Police Accountability Board. And that will be interesting to watch. And if there are more, whether they are sustained more often. Bear in mind that most complaints against police officers come from other police officers. Not the public.

Also bear in mind that at least two officers arrive at scenes at some point, and they all have BWC and in car video. Add to that all the other cameras we are all subjected to, including people's cell phones, retail cameras, traffic cameras, etc. Hell, Tesla car cameras record everything and are often subpoenaed in court. I'm sure other car models do similar things. Nobody is doing much of anything and getting away with it these days.

Additionally, the use of force is almost infinitesimal considering American police in general are policing in the most heavily armed civilian population in the entire world.

Mr. Stats,
How many cops have turned in bad cops in moco and got them fired in the past 20 year.. for unlawful arrest or unlawfully beating someone the arrested?

DP. Your question suggests that MCPD officers have unlawfully arrested or beat people on a regular basis. The data the PP posted above shows that’s not the case. The PP also wrote that most complaints about officers actually come from OTHER officers, which means that officers do indeed report “bad cops.”

This may not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

No but it does happen, The data shows 0, stats are only as good as the sources. Zero shows moco is very good about hiding bad cops.

That might not be what you want to hear or believe, but that’s what the objective data shows.

Oh there’s the 1 guy who got caught on camera, not body cam. Not 1 cop reported him, the public did.

The thin blue line is real.

It’s not worth engaging with you. There is no objective data you can provide to support your beliefs. It’s purely conjecture and/or anger.

Your not angry about cops watching their coworker beat somebody and do nothing about it?

Read up on the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021, which says police officers MUST report when they use or even WITNESS a use of force… even if it’s done by a different agency. Failure to do can lead to a police officer’s termination.

As a PP said before, very little is happening without getting recorded on tons of cameras. If an officer doesn’t report, it will be noticed by command staff. Officers aren’t roaming streets looking to commit wanton, unprovoked beatings.

I recommend you reach out to your local department (MCPD, presumably, since that’s the topic of this thread) and share your concerns with them. You will find they are quite willing to talk through them with you.

So you are not angry that cops stood and watched a man he beaten? The community had to report it. He did not do jail time, did anger management classes and is still a cop.

How about betraying and handcuffing a 5 year old. 4 weeks suspension for handcuffing a 5 year old. WTF!

Go head blue man put your head in the sand. Y’all need to fix your sh!t, but you won’t because you see nothing to fix.

You mention 2 examples of bad policing. As for your first example, the officer was prosecuted, went to trial, and was found guilty of 2nd degree assault. Wouldn’t that be an example of the system working? Each officer on the scene gave statements. As for your other example, neither officer who yelled at the child are currently on the road.

Your argument appears to be that the examples above are the norm, as opposed to the exception to the rule. The many statistics already posted on this thread show that’s not the case.

I don’t have my head in the sand, clearly.

[Anonymous]

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My point was that because the media covers these things in such detail, and people repost a million times on social media, you think it's far more common than it is. Police are called to the scene of danger, and most officer-involved shootings are because the person was threatening someone else, or the police officer, with a deadly weapon. And as much as some people hate the idea, police have the right to self-defense.

The universe of incidents we all should be looking at is officer-involved deaths where the person was not an immediate threat to others (including the officer). That universe is tiny, but there is a need for improved training there. Overwhelmingly, though, they are already held accountable when they fail to follow both internal departmental policy and/or break the law in terms of how far their right to self defense.

The media does not cover these things in detail. Every year there is less and less local media. And local media coverage generally consists of reprinting the press release from the police. Does it happen often enough to make people justifiably afraid? Yes, it does.

No. It’s an irrational fear. You are much more likely to be injured driving your car.

Assuming that you're interested in fixing the problem - you don't fix the problem by saying there isn't one.

It's not an either/or. When the primary cultural rhetoric about police safety is so wildly skewed, people are not fixing the legitimate problems that do exist. Instead, they are going for the sensationalistic types of "fixes" that actually harm public safety more than they help. You've spent 2.5 years punishing MCPD for what happened to George Floyd. Instead of looking to see what MCPD actually needs. Trust me, NONE of the local activist hysteria even touches on needed improvements. Because they have no idea what those are.