New TA here: please don’t send your kids to high poverty schools if you can avoid it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: nowhere am I blaming the kids.
I am just saying - don’t put your kids there.
No I am not assuming anything looking at skin color or whatever - I see how kids behave, in fact, they are almost all the same ethnicity.
I am sure the quiet kids who just sit their on their own most of the time doing their work are “succeeding”. They get good grades etc.
But they are missing on a full scale school experience with field trips, projects, hands on work etc.
Because guess what! It is impossible to do hands on work with unruly kids.
Also, the street smart kids put more naive, well behaving kids in trouble. They tell on them and the teacher who probably doesn’t want to be racist or classist punishes or scolds them.
Kids who don’t speak Spanish are teased by Spanish speaking kids using unfamiliar terms.
I mean, I guess those kids benefit from having your kid in class, right?

DO: This is just such awful advice coming from someone clearly new to education. Of course students of all levels can access hands on learning. In fact, your students are partially being unruly bc they aren’t able to access the material in the way you are trying to deliver it. It’s hard for a new teacher I get it, but I teach in a title 1 and we do nothing but hands on and engaging work. Ditch the lectures and try to shorten direct instruction — give the kids a chance to succeed.

If you would like some research based practices to get started, I’d recommend looking up the universal design for learning (UDL). They have TONS of free resources to help you adapt lessons to make them more accessible and engaging for ALL learners.

I also think you need to seriously look at the way you are talking about these kids. Unruly/street smart/etc tells me that you may have an implicit bias that you are not yet aware of. It makes me sad to see you sharing this as if you’re minimal experience is absolute

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: nowhere am I blaming the kids.
I am just saying - don’t put your kids there.
No I am not assuming anything looking at skin color or whatever - I see how kids behave, in fact, they are almost all the same ethnicity.
I am sure the quiet kids who just sit their on their own most of the time doing their work are “succeeding”. They get good grades etc.
But they are missing on a full scale school experience with field trips, projects, hands on work etc.
Because guess what! It is impossible to do hands on work with unruly kids.
Also, the street smart kids put more naive, well behaving kids in trouble. They tell on them and the teacher who probably doesn’t want to be racist or classist punishes or scolds them.
Kids who don’t speak Spanish are teased by Spanish speaking kids using unfamiliar terms.
I mean, I guess those kids benefit from having your kid in class, right?

OP, no one is saying that your observations about the struggles inside hypersegregated schools aren't correct. We're just pointing out that you are identifying kids, not hypersegregation, as the cause of the issues. Research does not support your hypothesis. Just imagine if the high poverty kids were only, say, 20% of the class. Let's say you had 80% of the class with helicopter parents fundraising with the PTA to do field trips, etc. Yes, those high poverty kids would benefit, and so would you. You wouldn't feel so burnt out and overwhelmed. So don't tell people to avoid tough schools. Tell people to invest in them. Everyone fleeing high poverty schools is a vicious cycle based on some kind of survival instinct, but it's misguided. It's like when a stampede results in deaths. If everyone looked at the big picture instead of panicking, we'd all walk together calmly toward the exit together.

NP And have you put your money where your mouth is? Because I see many liberals talking big game while their children are in W schools or private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

clueless liberal

Do you have kids yourself, guessing no. All of these liberal thoughts are clearly debunked by reality

There are plenty of people who want to be teachers salaries aren't the issue
Smart kids are hurt when they are put in normal classroom environments because the teacher can't advance as fast and most of the time is spent with the slower ones

You should have trusted yourself at 22, now you are brainwashed 42 year old idiot using language that didn't even exist 5 years ago

There is one area we agree in, until families and communities actually care about education more money won't help.

Yes, I have children, and they attend integrated Title 1 schools. They are high achieving and excelling in school despite your assertion that their teachers must be unable to "advance as fast."

I'm happy to discuss actual research, but when you throw around ad hominem attacks instead of good faith arguments, it just screams, "I was triggered by facts I didn't want to face so I threw around some school yard insults to make myself feel better."

they would be doing even better if they went to a normal school... do you have any common sense at all????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have recently started working as a TA at an 85% low income and ESL school. This is not in the DMV area but I think there are very similar schools in FCPS for example. I can never say this to parents in my district because I am bound by all the privacy stuff but I want to say it here: please please don’t send your child to a school like that, even for K.
I don’t know why the kids from middle class families are there. Many of them seem at least 3rd Gen American so it’s not like their parents have no clue about the school system. Heck, many first Gen parents have a good idea! But apparently not them?
Each class has a group of very disruptive kids who ideally need their own aide, either as a group or even individually. They don’t seem to be getting much education simply because they are so distracted they can’t possibly learn much.
The rest of the kids are very very different from each other in terms of their levels. Ideally each class should have at least 3 level groups (not counting the separate one for distractable kids).
But since they only have one teacher… most of the time most of the kids are left to their own devices. The teacher works with one group at a time, doing an awesome job juggling them. The rest are doing activities mostly on their chromebooks. If your child is highly driven, disciplined, is able to ask for help, and has a good attention span - this kid will be fine. But even in that case… there won’t be much fun or enthusiasm in learning. Most of the energy is spent keeping discipline, and helping those who clearly struggle.
Your child’s presence doesn’t seem to benefit anyone either. I mean, maybe it benefits another child like that who now has a friend who is “good, smart” kid. But it definitely doesn’t have any influence on the overall class dynamic, I mean, yeah, it’s better than the class being 100% disruptive but maybe in the latter case help would arrive a little faster?
At the same time, it’s hurting the kids who are capable of learning and being excited to learn, but who instead spend their days almost forgotten (unless they get in trouble) and on their chromebooks.
Anyway, sorry if I am being too direct, but I really wanted to help the kids who can do so much better than this.

This is why FCPS needs to adopt a program of diversity busing to ensure the SES% is similar at all schools so all children have good opportunities not just the wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: nowhere am I blaming the kids.
I am just saying - don’t put your kids there.
No I am not assuming anything looking at skin color or whatever - I see how kids behave, in fact, they are almost all the same ethnicity.
I am sure the quiet kids who just sit their on their own most of the time doing their work are “succeeding”. They get good grades etc.
But they are missing on a full scale school experience with field trips, projects, hands on work etc.
Because guess what! It is impossible to do hands on work with unruly kids.
Also, the street smart kids put more naive, well behaving kids in trouble. They tell on them and the teacher who probably doesn’t want to be racist or classist punishes or scolds them.
Kids who don’t speak Spanish are teased by Spanish speaking kids using unfamiliar terms.
I mean, I guess those kids benefit from having your kid in class, right?

OP, no one is saying that your observations about the struggles inside hypersegregated schools aren't correct. We're just pointing out that you are identifying kids, not hypersegregation, as the cause of the issues. Research does not support your hypothesis. Just imagine if the high poverty kids were only, say, 20% of the class. Let's say you had 80% of the class with helicopter parents fundraising with the PTA to do field trips, etc. Yes, those high poverty kids would benefit, and so would you. You wouldn't feel so burnt out and overwhelmed. So don't tell people to avoid tough schools. Tell people to invest in them. Everyone fleeing high poverty schools is a vicious cycle based on some kind of survival instinct, but it's misguided. It's like when a stampede results in deaths. If everyone looked at the big picture instead of panicking, we'd all walk together calmly toward the exit together.

NP And have you put your money where your mouth is? Because I see many liberals talking big game while their children are in W schools or private.

Yes I've said multiple times that my children attend Title 1, urban schools.

What is a "W" school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

clueless liberal

Do you have kids yourself, guessing no. All of these liberal thoughts are clearly debunked by reality

There are plenty of people who want to be teachers salaries aren't the issue
Smart kids are hurt when they are put in normal classroom environments because the teacher can't advance as fast and most of the time is spent with the slower ones

You should have trusted yourself at 22, now you are brainwashed 42 year old idiot using language that didn't even exist 5 years ago

There is one area we agree in, until families and communities actually care about education more money won't help.

Yes, I have children, and they attend integrated Title 1 schools. They are high achieving and excelling in school despite your assertion that their teachers must be unable to "advance as fast."

I'm happy to discuss actual research, but when you throw around ad hominem attacks instead of good faith arguments, it just screams, "I was triggered by facts I didn't want to face so I threw around some school yard insults to make myself feel better."

they would be doing even better if they went to a normal school... do you have any common sense at all????

Doing better . . . at what? To what end?

I used to feel anxiety about keeping up with the Joneses and securing my kids the "best" and all that, but then I read the research (see: Rucker Johnson) and met some people actually sending their kids to the schools I was told were "bad" and poof, there went that baseless anxiety.

I don't envy you your anxiety, or your belief that you need to hoard and exclude. It hurts you just as much as it hurts our kids. If you can only feel good about yourself when you fancy yourself better than others, well that's not much, is it?

A "normal" school, FFS . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have recently started working as a TA at an 85% low income and ESL school. This is not in the DMV area but I think there are very similar schools in FCPS for example. I can never say this to parents in my district because I am bound by all the privacy stuff but I want to say it here: please please don’t send your child to a school like that, even for K.
I don’t know why the kids from middle class families are there. Many of them seem at least 3rd Gen American so it’s not like their parents have no clue about the school system. Heck, many first Gen parents have a good idea! But apparently not them?
Each class has a group of very disruptive kids who ideally need their own aide, either as a group or even individually. They don’t seem to be getting much education simply because they are so distracted they can’t possibly learn much.
The rest of the kids are very very different from each other in terms of their levels. Ideally each class should have at least 3 level groups (not counting the separate one for distractable kids).
But since they only have one teacher… most of the time most of the kids are left to their own devices. The teacher works with one group at a time, doing an awesome job juggling them. The rest are doing activities mostly on their chromebooks. If your child is highly driven, disciplined, is able to ask for help, and has a good attention span - this kid will be fine. But even in that case… there won’t be much fun or enthusiasm in learning. Most of the energy is spent keeping discipline, and helping those who clearly struggle.
Your child’s presence doesn’t seem to benefit anyone either. I mean, maybe it benefits another child like that who now has a friend who is “good, smart” kid. But it definitely doesn’t have any influence on the overall class dynamic, I mean, yeah, it’s better than the class being 100% disruptive but maybe in the latter case help would arrive a little faster?
At the same time, it’s hurting the kids who are capable of learning and being excited to learn, but who instead spend their days almost forgotten (unless they get in trouble) and on their chromebooks.
Anyway, sorry if I am being too direct, but I really wanted to help the kids who can do so much better than this.

This is why FCPS needs to adopt a program of diversity busing to ensure the SES% is similar at all schools so all children have good opportunities not just the wealthy.

There is no legal basis for assigning children to school based on their class/parents’ incomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have recently started working as a TA at an 85% low income and ESL school. This is not in the DMV area but I think there are very similar schools in FCPS for example. I can never say this to parents in my district because I am bound by all the privacy stuff but I want to say it here: please please don’t send your child to a school like that, even for K.
I don’t know why the kids from middle class families are there. Many of them seem at least 3rd Gen American so it’s not like their parents have no clue about the school system. Heck, many first Gen parents have a good idea! But apparently not them?
Each class has a group of very disruptive kids who ideally need their own aide, either as a group or even individually. They don’t seem to be getting much education simply because they are so distracted they can’t possibly learn much.
The rest of the kids are very very different from each other in terms of their levels. Ideally each class should have at least 3 level groups (not counting the separate one for distractable kids).
But since they only have one teacher… most of the time most of the kids are left to their own devices. The teacher works with one group at a time, doing an awesome job juggling them. The rest are doing activities mostly on their chromebooks. If your child is highly driven, disciplined, is able to ask for help, and has a good attention span - this kid will be fine. But even in that case… there won’t be much fun or enthusiasm in learning. Most of the energy is spent keeping discipline, and helping those who clearly struggle.
Your child’s presence doesn’t seem to benefit anyone either. I mean, maybe it benefits another child like that who now has a friend who is “good, smart” kid. But it definitely doesn’t have any influence on the overall class dynamic, I mean, yeah, it’s better than the class being 100% disruptive but maybe in the latter case help would arrive a little faster?
At the same time, it’s hurting the kids who are capable of learning and being excited to learn, but who instead spend their days almost forgotten (unless they get in trouble) and on their chromebooks.
Anyway, sorry if I am being too direct, but I really wanted to help the kids who can do so much better than this.

This is why FCPS needs to adopt a program of diversity busing to ensure the SES% is similar at all schools so all children have good opportunities not just the wealthy.

There is no legal basis for assigning children to school based on their class/parents’ incomes.

Consider the current "legal" process for assigning boundaries. This involves parent surveys and town halls where parents voice their concerns and an elected representative listens and votes accordingly. Sounds like a good democratic republic at the surface level. Of course, one side is already starting from a position of power (the wealthy schools which have nothing to gain and everything to lose) and they also happen to be the most overcrowded schools totaling thousands of more involved parents who are likely to show up and speak to their representative. The low-SES, under-enrolled schools will never have a chance under the current process, despite how legally proper and fair it appears to be, to have any policy go in their favor. Look at the last survey from the boundary committee from December 2021 and it's clearly shown that most voices were from high-SES participants living in the most predictable pyramids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have recently started working as a TA at an 85% low income and ESL school. This is not in the DMV area but I think there are very similar schools in FCPS for example. I can never say this to parents in my district because I am bound by all the privacy stuff but I want to say it here: please please don’t send your child to a school like that, even for K.
I don’t know why the kids from middle class families are there. Many of them seem at least 3rd Gen American so it’s not like their parents have no clue about the school system. Heck, many first Gen parents have a good idea! But apparently not them?
Each class has a group of very disruptive kids who ideally need their own aide, either as a group or even individually. They don’t seem to be getting much education simply because they are so distracted they can’t possibly learn much.
The rest of the kids are very very different from each other in terms of their levels. Ideally each class should have at least 3 level groups (not counting the separate one for distractable kids).
But since they only have one teacher… most of the time most of the kids are left to their own devices. The teacher works with one group at a time, doing an awesome job juggling them. The rest are doing activities mostly on their chromebooks. If your child is highly driven, disciplined, is able to ask for help, and has a good attention span - this kid will be fine. But even in that case… there won’t be much fun or enthusiasm in learning. Most of the energy is spent keeping discipline, and helping those who clearly struggle.
Your child’s presence doesn’t seem to benefit anyone either. I mean, maybe it benefits another child like that who now has a friend who is “good, smart” kid. But it definitely doesn’t have any influence on the overall class dynamic, I mean, yeah, it’s better than the class being 100% disruptive but maybe in the latter case help would arrive a little faster?
At the same time, it’s hurting the kids who are capable of learning and being excited to learn, but who instead spend their days almost forgotten (unless they get in trouble) and on their chromebooks.
Anyway, sorry if I am being too direct, but I really wanted to help the kids who can do so much better than this.

This is why FCPS needs to adopt a program of diversity busing to ensure the SES% is similar at all schools so all children have good opportunities not just the wealthy.

There is no legal basis for assigning children to school based on their class/parents’ incomes.

"Minority to majority" preference programs have passed legal muster. If you would be an ethnic or socioeconomic minority at the school, you get priority in transferring there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

clueless liberal

Do you have kids yourself, guessing no. All of these liberal thoughts are clearly debunked by reality

There are plenty of people who want to be teachers salaries aren't the issue
Smart kids are hurt when they are put in normal classroom environments because the teacher can't advance as fast and most of the time is spent with the slower ones

You should have trusted yourself at 22, now you are brainwashed 42 year old idiot using language that didn't even exist 5 years ago

There is one area we agree in, until families and communities actually care about education more money won't help.

Yes, I have children, and they attend integrated Title 1 schools. They are high achieving and excelling in school despite your assertion that their teachers must be unable to "advance as fast."

I'm happy to discuss actual research, but when you throw around ad hominem attacks instead of good faith arguments, it just screams, "I was triggered by facts I didn't want to face so I threw around some school yard insults to make myself feel better."

they would be doing even better if they went to a normal school... do you have any common sense at all????

Doing better . . . at what? To what end?

I used to feel anxiety about keeping up with the Joneses and securing my kids the "best" and all that, but then I read the research (see: Rucker Johnson) and met some people actually sending their kids to the schools I was told were "bad" and poof, there went that baseless anxiety.

I don't envy you your anxiety, or your belief that you need to hoard and exclude. It hurts you just as much as it hurts our kids. If you can only feel good about yourself when you fancy yourself better than others, well that's not much, is it?

A "normal" school, FFS . . .

I don’t like the word “normal” but you’re delusional if you can’t see the difference between a school with a 40% suspension rate and 75% of the students completely failing state proficiency tests, and a school that is actually functioning. It’s not “hoarding” and “excluding” to avoid that school. Pollyannishly insisting that there is no difference is basically saying you don’t care that the system is grievously failing those kids. Maybe you don’t quite get just HOW BAD the schools are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

clueless liberal

Do you have kids yourself, guessing no. All of these liberal thoughts are clearly debunked by reality

There are plenty of people who want to be teachers salaries aren't the issue
Smart kids are hurt when they are put in normal classroom environments because the teacher can't advance as fast and most of the time is spent with the slower ones

You should have trusted yourself at 22, now you are brainwashed 42 year old idiot using language that didn't even exist 5 years ago

There is one area we agree in, until families and communities actually care about education more money won't help.

Yes, I have children, and they attend integrated Title 1 schools. They are high achieving and excelling in school despite your assertion that their teachers must be unable to "advance as fast."

I'm happy to discuss actual research, but when you throw around ad hominem attacks instead of good faith arguments, it just screams, "I was triggered by facts I didn't want to face so I threw around some school yard insults to make myself feel better."

they would be doing even better if they went to a normal school... do you have any common sense at all????

Doing better . . . at what? To what end?

I used to feel anxiety about keeping up with the Joneses and securing my kids the "best" and all that, but then I read the research (see: Rucker Johnson) and met some people actually sending their kids to the schools I was told were "bad" and poof, there went that baseless anxiety.

I don't envy you your anxiety, or your belief that you need to hoard and exclude. It hurts you just as much as it hurts our kids. If you can only feel good about yourself when you fancy yourself better than others, well that's not much, is it?

A "normal" school, FFS . . .

I don’t like the word “normal” but you’re delusional if you can’t see the difference between a school with a 40% suspension rate and 75% of the students completely failing state proficiency tests, and a school that is actually functioning. It’s not “hoarding” and “excluding” to avoid that school. Pollyannishly insisting that there is no difference is basically saying you don’t care that the system is grievously failing those kids. Maybe you don’t quite get just HOW BAD the schools are.

So your argument is that the people walking into the school every day are the ones who don’t care about those kids and don’t understand the conditions of the school, unlike you, who won’t deign to step foot in it. Were you educated in a . . . “normal” school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have recently started working as a TA at an 85% low income and ESL school. This is not in the DMV area but I think there are very similar schools in FCPS for example. I can never say this to parents in my district because I am bound by all the privacy stuff but I want to say it here: please please don’t send your child to a school like that, even for K.
I don’t know why the kids from middle class families are there. Many of them seem at least 3rd Gen American so it’s not like their parents have no clue about the school system. Heck, many first Gen parents have a good idea! But apparently not them?
Each class has a group of very disruptive kids who ideally need their own aide, either as a group or even individually. They don’t seem to be getting much education simply because they are so distracted they can’t possibly learn much.
The rest of the kids are very very different from each other in terms of their levels. Ideally each class should have at least 3 level groups (not counting the separate one for distractable kids).
But since they only have one teacher… most of the time most of the kids are left to their own devices. The teacher works with one group at a time, doing an awesome job juggling them. The rest are doing activities mostly on their chromebooks. If your child is highly driven, disciplined, is able to ask for help, and has a good attention span - this kid will be fine. But even in that case… there won’t be much fun or enthusiasm in learning. Most of the energy is spent keeping discipline, and helping those who clearly struggle.
Your child’s presence doesn’t seem to benefit anyone either. I mean, maybe it benefits another child like that who now has a friend who is “good, smart” kid. But it definitely doesn’t have any influence on the overall class dynamic, I mean, yeah, it’s better than the class being 100% disruptive but maybe in the latter case help would arrive a little faster?
At the same time, it’s hurting the kids who are capable of learning and being excited to learn, but who instead spend their days almost forgotten (unless they get in trouble) and on their chromebooks.
Anyway, sorry if I am being too direct, but I really wanted to help the kids who can do so much better than this.

This is why FCPS needs to adopt a program of diversity busing to ensure the SES% is similar at all schools so all children have good opportunities not just the wealthy.

There is no legal basis for assigning children to school based on their class/parents’ incomes.

"Minority to majority" preference programs have passed legal muster. If you would be an ethnic or socioeconomic minority at the school, you get priority in transferring there.

They could do it, but they'd alienate the constituents who are more likely to both donate and vote. I wouldnt put it past LCPS or FCPS to create more republican voters- that does seem like their greatest skillset at the moment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

clueless liberal

Do you have kids yourself, guessing no. All of these liberal thoughts are clearly debunked by reality

There are plenty of people who want to be teachers salaries aren't the issue
Smart kids are hurt when they are put in normal classroom environments because the teacher can't advance as fast and most of the time is spent with the slower ones

You should have trusted yourself at 22, now you are brainwashed 42 year old idiot using language that didn't even exist 5 years ago

There is one area we agree in, until families and communities actually care about education more money won't help.

Yes, I have children, and they attend integrated Title 1 schools. They are high achieving and excelling in school despite your assertion that their teachers must be unable to "advance as fast."

I'm happy to discuss actual research, but when you throw around ad hominem attacks instead of good faith arguments, it just screams, "I was triggered by facts I didn't want to face so I threw around some school yard insults to make myself feel better."

they would be doing even better if they went to a normal school... do you have any common sense at all????

Doing better . . . at what? To what end?

I used to feel anxiety about keeping up with the Joneses and securing my kids the "best" and all that, but then I read the research (see: Rucker Johnson) and met some people actually sending their kids to the schools I was told were "bad" and poof, there went that baseless anxiety.

I don't envy you your anxiety, or your belief that you need to hoard and exclude. It hurts you just as much as it hurts our kids. If you can only feel good about yourself when you fancy yourself better than others, well that's not much, is it?

A "normal" school, FFS . . .

I don’t like the word “normal” but you’re delusional if you can’t see the difference between a school with a 40% suspension rate and 75% of the students completely failing state proficiency tests, and a school that is actually functioning. It’s not “hoarding” and “excluding” to avoid that school. Pollyannishly insisting that there is no difference is basically saying you don’t care that the system is grievously failing those kids. Maybe you don’t quite get just HOW BAD the schools are.

So your argument is that the people walking into the school every day are the ones who don’t care about those kids and don’t understand the conditions of the school, unlike you, who won’t deign to step foot in it. Were you educated in a . . . “normal” school?

I’m saying the PP claiming her Title 1 school is “so wonderful” likely has a child in early elementary, and likely is not in a school failing as badly as OP describes. Check back in here when she enrolls her kid in a failing middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

clueless liberal

Do you have kids yourself, guessing no. All of these liberal thoughts are clearly debunked by reality

There are plenty of people who want to be teachers salaries aren't the issue
Smart kids are hurt when they are put in normal classroom environments because the teacher can't advance as fast and most of the time is spent with the slower ones

You should have trusted yourself at 22, now you are brainwashed 42 year old idiot using language that didn't even exist 5 years ago

There is one area we agree in, until families and communities actually care about education more money won't help.

Yes, I have children, and they attend integrated Title 1 schools. They are high achieving and excelling in school despite your assertion that their teachers must be unable to "advance as fast."

I'm happy to discuss actual research, but when you throw around ad hominem attacks instead of good faith arguments, it just screams, "I was triggered by facts I didn't want to face so I threw around some school yard insults to make myself feel better."

they would be doing even better if they went to a normal school... do you have any common sense at all????

Doing better . . . at what? To what end?

I used to feel anxiety about keeping up with the Joneses and securing my kids the "best" and all that, but then I read the research (see: Rucker Johnson) and met some people actually sending their kids to the schools I was told were "bad" and poof, there went that baseless anxiety.

I don't envy you your anxiety, or your belief that you need to hoard and exclude. It hurts you just as much as it hurts our kids. If you can only feel good about yourself when you fancy yourself better than others, well that's not much, is it?

A "normal" school, FFS . . .

I don’t like the word “normal” but you’re delusional if you can’t see the difference between a school with a 40% suspension rate and 75% of the students completely failing state proficiency tests, and a school that is actually functioning. It’s not “hoarding” and “excluding” to avoid that school. Pollyannishly insisting that there is no difference is basically saying you don’t care that the system is grievously failing those kids. Maybe you don’t quite get just HOW BAD the schools are.

So your argument is that the people walking into the school every day are the ones who don’t care about those kids and don’t understand the conditions of the school, unlike you, who won’t deign to step foot in it. Were you educated in a . . . “normal” school?

I’m saying the PP claiming her Title 1 school is “so wonderful” likely has a child in early elementary, and likely is not in a school failing as badly as OP describes. Check back in here when she enrolls her kid in a failing middle school.

Yes, hi, thanks, I do have a 13 y.o. in a Title 1 middle school, one which is not accredited. These are my views, based on my lived experience, in which my kids are happy and thriving and getting a great education (though I wish there wasn't so much segregation via tracking . . . there are always things we can improve). I would ask why you find that so hard to believe, but I get it, because I took my neighbors' word for it that you "couldn't" send your kids to these schools, and it turned out that they were just passing along hearsay. And my implicit bias and disinclination to discover I'd been making unnecessary choices that were causing ripple effects of harm throughout the community kept me from questioning it, until I did. Actually it took hearing a national expert on school segregation speak to make me go, whoa nelly, I think I need to revisit some of my assumptions. Because my views have changed and evolved, I've gotten to experience both a "good" (a.k.a. has the most white kids and least amount of poverty) school in my urban district as well as an undesirable one (which had basically the same test scores as the other school, just triple the poverty and single digits white kids). And after making the switch my kids said, you know what, it's super weird that everyone says the richer white school is better because I like my new school better. As with so many things, our kids have a clarity that we could learn from.

Look, I know not every school in my district is the same. Certainly we ask our administrators and teachers to work miracles with not enough staffing or resources and sometimes, often, there are pervasive issues and struggles. But I will argue all that day that just because a school is "high poverty" doesn't mean it should be avoided. That just leads to a vicious cycle of that school becoming even higher poverty while some other school becomes a virtual country club. I don't want my kids to only associate with other people of their exact ethnicity, religion, or socioeconomic bracket. The only wealthy white people I've met who AREN'T afraid to send their kids to schools like this are people who went to integrated schools themselves. You can't address bias by not practicing what you preach. You can't do, like, empathy tourism and go work in a soup kitchen one day a year and then retreat to your suburban enclave where you give grand speeches about treating everyone the same whilst simultaneously avoiding people who aren't like you. My kids have friends who live in public housing, who've been homeless, whose parents don't speak English, etc. I'll be real -- there are barriers to setting up playdates and all that. It's mostly me just offering to pick up and drop off their kids. But that gives me joy too, you know, to take a kid to the amusement park or whatever who wouldn't go otherwise.

You always hear people talk about classroom disruptions and fights and drugs when fearing high poverty schools, but when comparing notes with friends in the suburbs, our middle school seems to have less of that TBH. They do bring the drug sniffing dogs and metal detectors occasionally, and some might clutch their pearls at their kids experiencing that, but it's just one of those things that is as big a deal as you make it out to be. For a kid whose only frame of reference is this school, it doesn't seem weird. Maybe they're good at nipping stuff in the bud before it starts . . . IDK, I don't really have a full fledged theory about that. I just know the only things that my kid has seen are one kid flipping a desk once and some kids making fun of my kid's "smile, you're doing great!" sticky notes.

The elementary school we're at now . . . I legitimately believed the neighborhood line that you "couldn't" send your kids there. I remember a friend of mine toured it back in the day and said it seemed good, and my brain hurt, because how could a school that everyone in my neighborhood avoided like the plague be good? I didn't quite get a handle on my cognitive dissonance then, but it was the beginning of the cracks beginning to show. I hope you will take notice of yours too. If you haven't been in a school, don't speak authoritatively about it.

[Anonymous]

There’s so much Dunning-Kruger effect going on in OP’s posts. This person is a brand new teaching assistant and somehow knows more and has a broader perspective than teachers and parents with decades of experience? Sorry, no.