New TA here: please don’t send your kids to high poverty schools if you can avoid it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a teachers assistant a job that doesn't even require a college degree? OP are you a college student? If not you have no business critiquing anyone on this subject.

seriously. You're not even a teacher. You stepped into a room and immediately decided that these children are less than

Let’s be real here.
They can’t concentrate, and their knowledge retention is low.
They actually benefit from me explaining to them how to do standard algorithm addition (in 5th grade). I guess no one bothered before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know that UMC schools also have disruptive kids and they come with entitled parents who will come into school and go full Karen if you try to discipline them in the slightest.

Well if there are disruptive kids in both high and low SES schools, why does it matter if we integrate them then?

Great idea. Let’s integrate the disruptive kids from high the high and low SEC into one. Likewise, let’s integrate all the kids that are ready, willing, and have grade level ability to learn all together

Disruptive kids are usually kids who need a ton of 1:1 or small group instruction, it doesn’t matter what SES they are. It would be a good idea to have a lot of extra help for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Each class has a group of very disruptive kids who ideally need their own aide, either as a group or even individually. They don’t seem to be getting much education simply because they are so distracted they can’t possibly learn much.”

Many parents worry about “those kids.” However, we have children with behavioral issues in every school. The children I have taught who have had behaviors rising to conduct disorder were full-pay tuition kids at an independent Catholic school. The kids I have known who couldn’t keep their hands to themselves were also at a $$ private school.

“The rest of the kids are very very different from each other in terms of their levels. Ideally each class should have at least 3 level groups (not counting the separate one for distractable kids).”

As someone who has read the ERB results for private school classrooms, I can guarantee you every classroom has a broad range of abilities. It’s more common than not to have some kids testing in the single-digit percentiles and some kids up above 90th percentile, even in schools with admissions testing.

Are you saying 85% and 10% farms classrooms would be pretty much the same?

[Anonymous]

When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

This kind of romanticization of pathology is not compassionate nor helpful to the people involved. You do a huge disservice to people who faced actual discrimination and rose above it and raised children to be successful. Even very uneducated people have and do raise kids to be obedient, hard-working and successful in school. There is no person in the U.S. who was parenting 20 years ago who faced massive systematic barriers to their success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

This kind of romanticization of pathology is not compassionate nor helpful to the people involved. You do a huge disservice to people who faced actual discrimination and rose above it and raised children to be successful. Even very uneducated people have and do raise kids to be obedient, hard-working and successful in school. There is no person in the U.S. who was parenting 20 years ago who faced massive systematic barriers to their success.

DP: PP is not romanticizing pathology, and she quotes research on what policies have impact. Unlike you.l

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

This kind of romanticization of pathology is not compassionate nor helpful to the people involved. You do a huge disservice to people who faced actual discrimination and rose above it and raised children to be successful. Even very uneducated people have and do raise kids to be obedient, hard-working and successful in school. There is no person in the U.S. who was parenting 20 years ago who faced massive systematic barriers to their success.

DP: PP is not romanticizing pathology, and she quotes research on what policies have impact. Unlike you.l

The "research" that she "quotes" has nothing to do with the comment that I highlighted. Again, there may be failing schools, but that is a political failing, not racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

This kind of romanticization of pathology is not compassionate nor helpful to the people involved. You do a huge disservice to people who faced actual discrimination and rose above it and raised children to be successful. Even very uneducated people have and do raise kids to be obedient, hard-working and successful in school. There is no person in the U.S. who was parenting 20 years ago who faced massive systematic barriers to their success.

DP: PP is not romanticizing pathology, and she quotes research on what policies have impact. Unlike you.l

The "research" that she "quotes" has nothing to do with the comment that I highlighted. Again, there may be failing schools, but that is a political failing, not racism.

Is this some sort of joke?? Of course there is racism. I experienced it myself. I was better raised and better behaved than 99% of the white kids in my class, but you better believe that I was disproportionately punished whenever I made a mistake. I saw this sane pattern happen at my kids’ school as well. It’s people like OP who just assume we are a problem once you see our skin color and know we are FARMS. Point being, it doesn’t matter how well our parents raise us— the racist assumptions & judgments remain, and the same behavior that would be acceptable if a umc white kid did it isn’t acceptable if we do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a teachers assistant a job that doesn't even require a college degree? OP are you a college student? If not you have no business critiquing anyone on this subject.

seriously. You're not even a teacher. You stepped into a room and immediately decided that these children are less than

Let’s be real here.
They can’t concentrate, and their knowledge retention is low.
They actually benefit from me explaining to them how to do standard algorithm addition (in 5th grade). I guess no one bothered before.

I suggest you read Eric Jensen's books on teaching with poverty in mind and Zarretta Hammond's book on culturally responsive teaching. The challenges you report are so typical of high poverty schools, and something that the staff are constantly trying to improve. It's not an instant fix although it may seem that way in your brief time at the school. Having compassion for the struggles of the students and their families may make you more efficacious in your work.

Perhaps no one has offered the standard algorithm before, but it may be that if you listen to and observe the teachers next year, if you deign to return, you will find the issue is more complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

clueless liberal

Do you have kids yourself, guessing no. All of these liberal thoughts are clearly debunked by reality

There are plenty of people who want to be teachers salaries aren't the issue
Smart kids are hurt when they are put in normal classroom environments because the teacher can't advance as fast and most of the time is spent with the slower ones

You should have trusted yourself at 22, now you are brainwashed 42 year old idiot using language that didn't even exist 5 years ago

There is one area we agree in, until families and communities actually care about education more money won't help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dcs are in a hs like this. They went to a high performing charter until 8th grade so they have a good academic base. But this is our district and they wanted to play sports. It's been very eye-opening and I think will be good for them in the long run. I don't want my kids to be bubble-dwellers. We have a ton of money and they are already set for life no matter what they do. Oldest has gotten into a great college. I am ok with it.

Yeah -- it can work over the long run. But most of these kids are being destroyed.

DP here. But, that is also why PP's kids got into a good college - PP played the game and won - being in a low performing HS is a winning lottery ticket for a good college, and PP knows that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was 22, I taught in a school like this, and I thought similarly to the OP.

20 years later, I recognize how much of that was subconscious bias and lack of empathy. It was easier to blame the parents for not trying hard enough than to understand all the ways the system is stacked against people from their very first breath. I also accepted the good school/bad school paradigm . . . I was teaching at a "bad school," and I wanted to get to a "good school." With my UMC upbringing and my elite private college, I was just not understanding or accepting of people who had different life experiences.

Anyway, this advice is terrible. Research shows that taking kids out of hypersegregated schools and putting them in integrated schools brings their scores ways up, while the privileged students' scores are not affected. It is much more effective than throwing more money at under-resourced schools. I mean, think about it, how many teachers bring attitudes like OP's to teaching in these schools? Slightly higher salaries or lower class sizes are not going to make as much of an impact. We need to divorce school funding from property taxes and start paying teachers like the professionals they are, and we need a cultural shift to value schooling and integrated communities as a common good, not as a commodity to hoard.

OP, honestly, that your response to seeing the struggles of CHILDREN is to suggest that they should be further isolated, cast off, and forgotten about . . . I'm sure you are tired and burnt out, but please reconsider your "solution" to the horrible conditions we allow innocent children to attend school in. We should be ashamed. The answer is not turning a blind eye.

clueless liberal

Do you have kids yourself, guessing no. All of these liberal thoughts are clearly debunked by reality

There are plenty of people who want to be teachers salaries aren't the issue
Smart kids are hurt when they are put in normal classroom environments because the teacher can't advance as fast and most of the time is spent with the slower ones

You should have trusted yourself at 22, now you are brainwashed 42 year old idiot using language that didn't even exist 5 years ago

There is one area we agree in, until families and communities actually care about education more money won't help.

Yes, I have children, and they attend integrated Title 1 schools. They are high achieving and excelling in school despite your assertion that their teachers must be unable to "advance as fast."

I'm happy to discuss actual research, but when you throw around ad hominem attacks instead of good faith arguments, it just screams, "I was triggered by facts I didn't want to face so I threw around some school yard insults to make myself feel better."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a teachers assistant a job that doesn't even require a college degree? OP are you a college student? If not you have no business critiquing anyone on this subject.

seriously. You're not even a teacher. You stepped into a room and immediately decided that these children are less than

Let’s be real here.
They can’t concentrate, and their knowledge retention is low.
They actually benefit from me explaining to them how to do standard algorithm addition (in 5th grade). I guess no one bothered before.

I suggest you read Eric Jensen's books on teaching with poverty in mind and Zarretta Hammond's book on culturally responsive teaching. The challenges you report are so typical of high poverty schools, and something that the staff are constantly trying to improve. It's not an instant fix although it may seem that way in your brief time at the school. Having compassion for the struggles of the students and their families may make you more efficacious in your work.

Perhaps no one has offered the standard algorithm before, but it may be that if you listen to and observe the teachers next year, if you deign to return, you will find the issue is more complex.

Just remember that your kid is not part of this equation or problem or whatever.
Don’t send them there if you care about them.
Come work there if you want, or try to solve it by other means, I am all for it. Just don’t send the kids.

[Anonymous]

OP here: nowhere am I blaming the kids.
I am just saying - don’t put your kids there.
No I am not assuming anything looking at skin color or whatever - I see how kids behave, in fact, they are almost all the same ethnicity.
I am sure the quiet kids who just sit their on their own most of the time doing their work are “succeeding”. They get good grades etc.
But they are missing on a full scale school experience with field trips, projects, hands on work etc.
Because guess what! It is impossible to do hands on work with unruly kids.
Also, the street smart kids put more naive, well behaving kids in trouble. They tell on them and the teacher who probably doesn’t want to be racist or classist punishes or scolds them.
Kids who don’t speak Spanish are teased by Spanish speaking kids using unfamiliar terms.
I mean, I guess those kids benefit from having your kid in class, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: nowhere am I blaming the kids.
I am just saying - don’t put your kids there.
No I am not assuming anything looking at skin color or whatever - I see how kids behave, in fact, they are almost all the same ethnicity.
I am sure the quiet kids who just sit their on their own most of the time doing their work are “succeeding”. They get good grades etc.
But they are missing on a full scale school experience with field trips, projects, hands on work etc.
Because guess what! It is impossible to do hands on work with unruly kids.
Also, the street smart kids put more naive, well behaving kids in trouble. They tell on them and the teacher who probably doesn’t want to be racist or classist punishes or scolds them.
Kids who don’t speak Spanish are teased by Spanish speaking kids using unfamiliar terms.
I mean, I guess those kids benefit from having your kid in class, right?

OP, no one is saying that your observations about the struggles inside hypersegregated schools aren't correct. We're just pointing out that you are identifying kids, not hypersegregation, as the cause of the issues. Research does not support your hypothesis. Just imagine if the high poverty kids were only, say, 20% of the class. Let's say you had 80% of the class with helicopter parents fundraising with the PTA to do field trips, etc. Yes, those high poverty kids would benefit, and so would you. You wouldn't feel so burnt out and overwhelmed. So don't tell people to avoid tough schools. Tell people to invest in them. Everyone fleeing high poverty schools is a vicious cycle based on some kind of survival instinct, but it's misguided. It's like when a stampede results in deaths. If everyone looked at the big picture instead of panicking, we'd all walk together calmly toward the exit together.