Is it time for private school vouchers in Montgomery County?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

+1 million

This is exactly ir.

+1000 - There are many reasons why trolls on DCUM are unhappy. How students with disabilities are discriminated against is one reason parents want alternative options.

If you are happy with MCPS (particularly if MCPS is paying for your child’s private education) then count your children blessed. Some disabilities are more appropriately addressed by MCPS than others. Some schools do a better job than others. It doesn’t mean the voice of complaints aren’t valid. The State complaint losses are piling up. The OCR complaints are piling up. Due Process is a longer venue and the last result, so they will begin piling up as well.

Even though some PPs have clear implicit bias about educating students with disabilities, all students deserve FAPE - a Free Appropriate Public Education.

Corrected for you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

+1 million

This is exactly ir.

+1000 - There are many reasons why parents are unhappy. How students with disabilities are discriminated against is one reason parents want alternative options.

If you are happy with MCPS (particularly if MCPS is paying for your child’s private education) then count your children blessed. Some disabilities are more appropriately addressed by MCPS than others. Some schools do a better job than others. It doesn’t mean the voice of complaints aren’t valid. The State complaint losses are piling up. The OCR complaints are piling up. Due Process is a longer venue and the last result, so they will begin piling up as well.

Even though some PPs have clear implicit bias about educating students with disabilities, all students deserve FAPE - a Free Appropriate Public Education.

I don’t think most are disagreeing with you that students with disabilities deserve FAPE. What they are arguing in 1) Appropriate needs to be defined with respective to each disability and 2)the current MCPS average cost to educate a student of 16K (which includes the additional dollars being spent on a smaller portion of the population) is not going to pay for private school tuition most anywhere in the DMV, and definitely not somewhere that will address many of the student disabilities that MCPS is tasked with addressed. ALSO, and this is very key, no private school is required to admit your child (voucher or no voucher) nor lower their cost of tuition, which means for many, that vouchers wouldn’t actually give them meaningful choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I call connections to MCPS. (Employee, politician, or long time resident). Or I call significant failure - so severe MCPS didn’t think they could win in court. MCPS fights tooth and nail to prevent private placement… why else is Eig’s phone ringing off the hook if it were so easy?

Long term residents are now classified as having an in with MCPS?

Yes. You have connections that you pull when needed. The fact you don’t know this is just gaslighting.

This is conspiracy level thinking. Spoiler alert - no conspiracy.

It's all kind of out-there stuff. Last i knew half the budget was going to special needs. Not sure what people expect. The larger problem is that almost no children receive an appropriate education and the approach is one size fits all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I call connections to MCPS. (Employee, politician, or long time resident). Or I call significant failure - so severe MCPS didn’t think they could win in court. MCPS fights tooth and nail to prevent private placement… why else is Eig’s phone ringing off the hook if it were so easy?

Long term residents are now classified as having an in with MCPS?

Yes. You have connections that you pull when needed. The fact you don’t know this is just gaslighting.

This is conspiracy level thinking. Spoiler alert - no conspiracy.

It's all kind of out-there stuff. Last i knew half the budget was going to special needs. Not sure what people expect. The larger problem is that almost no children receive an appropriate education and the approach is one size fits all.

I disagree with this. It’s absolutely NOT one size fits all. We got kids in the middle who need something, academically advance kids who need it to be speed up a little (see compacted math), Special needs students all across the spectrum from those who can barely talk to gifted, academic on track and advance kids who don’t have a cohort (see magnets programs), special programs to address varied interest (see HS signature programs and application based programs, and magnets), etc. If its was a one size fits all approach, it would be significantly easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

+1 million

This is exactly ir.

+1000 - There are many reasons why parents are unhappy. How students with disabilities are discriminated against is one reason parents want alternative options.

If you are happy with MCPS (particularly if MCPS is paying for your child’s private education) then count your children blessed. Some disabilities are more appropriately addressed by MCPS than others. Some schools do a better job than others. It doesn’t mean the voice of complaints aren’t valid. The State complaint losses are piling up. The OCR complaints are piling up. Due Process is a longer venue and the last result, so they will begin piling up as well.

Even though some PPs have clear implicit bias about educating students with disabilities, all students deserve FAPE - a Free Appropriate Public Education.

I don’t think most are disagreeing with you that students with disabilities deserve FAPE. What they are arguing in 1) Appropriate needs to be defined with respective to each disability and 2)the current MCPS average cost to educate a student of 16K (which includes the additional dollars being spent on a smaller portion of the population) is not going to pay for private school tuition most anywhere in the DMV, and definitely not somewhere that will address many of the student disabilities that MCPS is tasked with addressed. ALSO, and this is very key, no private school is required to admit your child (voucher or no voucher) nor lower their cost of tuition, which means for many, that vouchers wouldn’t actually give them meaningful choice.

The IEP (a collective team process including the parents and the school) define what a child’s needs. When the school repeatedly fails to implement the IEP or identify a child’s needs from the failure of a comprehensive evaluation, the children do not receive FAPE.

$16,000 is far more than nothing. Many families could take $16,000 add to that and give their children opportunities that don’t exist in MCPS. The program would allow for school choice.

Yes, private schools don’t have to accept students similarly to colleges can exclude students. However, there are private schools that value diversity and there are private schools that specialize for students with disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I call connections to MCPS. (Employee, politician, or long time resident). Or I call significant failure - so severe MCPS didn’t think they could win in court. MCPS fights tooth and nail to prevent private placement… why else is Eig’s phone ringing off the hook if it were so easy?

Long term residents are now classified as having an in with MCPS?

Yes. You have connections that you pull when needed. The fact you don’t know this is just gaslighting.

This is conspiracy level thinking. Spoiler alert - no conspiracy.

It's all kind of out-there stuff. Last i knew half the budget was going to special needs. Not sure what people expect. The larger problem is that almost no children receive an appropriate education and the approach is one size fits all.

I disagree with this. It’s absolutely NOT one size fits all. We got kids in the middle who need something, academically advance kids who need it to be speed up a little (see compacted math), Special needs students all across the spectrum from those who can barely talk to gifted, academic on track and advance kids who don’t have a cohort (see magnets programs), special programs to address varied interest (see HS signature programs and application based programs, and magnets), etc. If its was a one size fits all approach, it would be significantly easier.

I would say it’s one size fits none approach. All of the programs above have been watered down to the point that they don’t meet the needs of the students enrolled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The IEP (a collective team process including the parents and the school) define what a child’s needs. When the school repeatedly fails to implement the IEP or identify a child’s needs from the failure of a comprehensive evaluation, the children do not receive FAPE.

$16,000 is far more than nothing. Many families could take $16,000 add to that and give their children opportunities that don’t exist in MCPS. The program would allow for school choice.

Yes, private schools don’t have to accept students similarly to colleges can exclude students. However, there are private schools that value diversity and there are private schools that specialize for students with disabilities.

If every parent of a SN child with an IEP decided to go private here with their $16K, do you think all the private schools would be able to accommodate them? I'm thinking not.

Do you think the cost at that private school would remain the same with a huge increase in SN students who have IEPs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

Calling people “dim” while you rant about “monopolies” in a discussion of special needs education is probably not going to win you much support.
Raving using terms from an Econ cliff notes guide that you don’t really understand isn’t going to win you much support either.
I wondered if you were Chris Whittle trying to get support for his next scam, but, reportedly, he usually starts with a charm offensive and presentations that at least sound good, so: nah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The IEP (a collective team process including the parents and the school) define what a child’s needs. When the school repeatedly fails to implement the IEP or identify a child’s needs from the failure of a comprehensive evaluation, the children do not receive FAPE.

$16,000 is far more than nothing. Many families could take $16,000 add to that and give their children opportunities that don’t exist in MCPS. The program would allow for school choice.

Yes, private schools don’t have to accept students similarly to colleges can exclude students. However, there are private schools that value diversity and there are private schools that specialize for students with disabilities.

If every parent of a SN child with an IEP decided to go private here with their $16K, do you think all the private schools would be able to accommodate them? I'm thinking not.

Do you think the cost at that private school would remain the same with a huge increase in SN students who have IEPs?

SN students are a diverse population of students with various needs.

I took my oldest child out of MCPS and put him in a general education private school that had a disability coordinator. He was treated with respect by students and staff. Class sizes were significantly smaller so he had more direct attention by the teacher. Many of the goals on his MCPS IEP were core foundational skills that between his daily study hall checkins with the disabilities coordinator during study hall and the direct support of teachers, he made significant progress and was independently ready for college upon graduation.

Beyond the lack of educational support and the lower expectations in MCPS, I funded my child’s private education because of severe bullying that posed a safety risk to my child in MCPS. He received cyber threats that told him to kill him self. I shared those threats to the school and nothing was done to protect my child. The climate was extremely toxic so I truly was just trying to help him literally survive high school.

School choice, is just that, a choice. It gives parents options. Perhaps it would incentivize MCPS to do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Privates are recruiting again.

It's that time of year!

When isn't it? LOL

[Anonymous]

No.

Public money should never go to private schools. I even hate that tuition is tax deductible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The IEP (a collective team process including the parents and the school) define what a child’s needs. When the school repeatedly fails to implement the IEP or identify a child’s needs from the failure of a comprehensive evaluation, the children do not receive FAPE.

$16,000 is far more than nothing. Many families could take $16,000 add to that and give their children opportunities that don’t exist in MCPS. The program would allow for school choice.

Yes, private schools don’t have to accept students similarly to colleges can exclude students. However, there are private schools that value diversity and there are private schools that specialize for students with disabilities.

If every parent of a SN child with an IEP decided to go private here with their $16K, do you think all the private schools would be able to accommodate them? I'm thinking not.

Do you think the cost at that private school would remain the same with a huge increase in SN students who have IEPs?

SN students are a diverse population of students with various needs.

I took my oldest child out of MCPS and put him in a general education private school that had a disability coordinator. He was treated with respect by students and staff. Class sizes were significantly smaller so he had more direct attention by the teacher. Many of the goals on his MCPS IEP were core foundational skills that between his daily study hall checkins with the disabilities coordinator during study hall and the direct support of teachers, he made significant progress and was independently ready for college upon graduation.

Beyond the lack of educational support and the lower expectations in MCPS, I funded my child’s private education because of severe bullying that posed a safety risk to my child in MCPS. He received cyber threats that told him to kill him self. I shared those threats to the school and nothing was done to protect my child. The climate was extremely toxic so I truly was just trying to help him literally survive high school.

School choice, is just that, a choice. It gives parents options. Perhaps it would incentivize MCPS to do better.

This. If parents want to stick with MCPS, that’s great. For some of us, it feels like MCPS has simply given up on our kids. This was particularly clear last year during Covid.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand the economics. Where does 16k a kid go? Seems that 4 kids pay the teachers salary but class sizes are 20-25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the economics. Where does 16k a kid go? Seems that 4 kids pay the teachers salary but class sizes are 20-25.

The kids are in schools. The schools need upkeep, heating, groundskeeping and maintenance. Books, furniture, lab equipment, computers, gym equipment, specialized teachers, administrators, even musical instruments. That’s also an average, so some programs cost more than others.
That’s just stuff I was able to think of quickly. I’m sure someone with administrative experience or knowledge of building upkeep could add a lot more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are citing multiple posters and trying to lump different arguments into one.

Many special populations - special needs students being one - fell disproportionately behind than other students according to MCPS data presented to the Board of Ed. MCPS was quick to remove the supports and services that these students legally need for accessibility. MCPS has been slow to provide services so special needs students can catch up. This equates to a two year decline for students with special needs. Enough is enough. We are tired of our students being treated as an afterthought by MCPS, and as one PP has expressed, not deserving of educational benefit. That’s taking a whole student group that gained rights under the ADA, Section 504, and the IDEA back to pre-Civil Rights level of discrimination.

Parents are tired with fighting with MCPS for basic services listed on IEPs that aren’t being provided. School choice would provide us a financial mechanism to be able to leave MCPS to a school that wants to educate them.

My child has an IEP. I haven't seen their issues not being addressed. True, their issues aren't very complicated compared to.some.

But you are speaking for your own family. Not for all of us. Like you, I assume, I'm also on the various SN list serves and Facebook groups. There's no groundswell of parents demanding school vouchers. And you don't seem to be complaining there about it.

At this point I think at least half a dozen different posters have explained to you why school choice isn't going to give your child a magic placement that will "fix" them. That horrible troll post about damaged kids had one element of truth in what they said that perhaps you need to hear:

Our kids aren't "normal," whatever that even means. It's ablelist for you to assume our kids can meet your arbitrary goals and that only some vast Moco conspiracy is what's holding them back. Maybe what's holding your child back is his father's massive sense of entitlement and privilege.

Except what MCPS is doing (not providing more than de minimus) is against federal law. Gosh, some of you are so dim! Just because your kids can memorize things quickly doesn’t mean our kids (who may have working memory issues) aren’t bright and are being ignored. (As an example).

MCPS is a despicable organization - but if your kid is in Blair Magnet - you wouldn’t even realize it. Or you work for the schools - Moco is America’s Venezuela… everyone works for the schools or the county.

Charters are one of the few ways to give a monopoly a signal - you are sub-optimal. With so many county workers as voters it’s challenging to change the status quo.

+1 million

This is exactly ir.

+1000 - There are many reasons why parents are unhappy. How students with disabilities are discriminated against is one reason parents want alternative options.

If you are happy with MCPS (particularly if MCPS is paying for your child’s private education) then count your children blessed. Some disabilities are more appropriately addressed by MCPS than others. Some schools do a better job than others. It doesn’t mean the voice of complaints aren’t valid. The State complaint losses are piling up. The OCR complaints are piling up. Due Process is a longer venue and the last result, so they will begin piling up as well.

Even though some PPs have clear implicit bias about educating students with disabilities, all students deserve FAPE - a Free Appropriate Public Education.

I don’t think most are disagreeing with you that students with disabilities deserve FAPE. What they are arguing in 1) Appropriate needs to be defined with respective to each disability and 2)the current MCPS average cost to educate a student of 16K (which includes the additional dollars being spent on a smaller portion of the population) is not going to pay for private school tuition most anywhere in the DMV, and definitely not somewhere that will address many of the student disabilities that MCPS is tasked with addressed. ALSO, and this is very key, no private school is required to admit your child (voucher or no voucher) nor lower their cost of tuition, which means for many, that vouchers wouldn’t actually give them meaningful choice.

The IEP (a collective team process including the parents and the school) define what a child’s needs. When the school repeatedly fails to implement the IEP or identify a child’s needs from the failure of a comprehensive evaluation, the children do not receive FAPE.

$16,000 is far more than nothing. Many families could take $16,000 add to that and give their children opportunities that don’t exist in MCPS. The program would allow for school choice.

Yes, private schools don’t have to accept students similarly to colleges can exclude students. However, there are private schools that value diversity and there are private schools that specialize for students with disabilities.

So your argument is that the wealthier families should get tax dollars to spend at private schools, leaving the less wealthier families at schools that will have even fewer resources and opportunities?