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Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html
If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.
Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.
Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians
FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP
It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.
https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/
A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.
That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. -
Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.
The bolded is not true.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officer-who-raped-palestinian-was-not-dismissed-for-earlier-sexual-offenses/
Well, look at you! You found one IDF soldier who raped one Palestinian woman - almost six years ago. Bravo? Now tell us all about the dozens of Israeli women Hamas brutally mutilated, raped and/or murdered. Read this (if you dare) and then get back to us, you utter moron.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
You didn’t read the article did you?
“The officer was found to have raped one Palestinian woman, who had come to him to receive a permit to work in Israel, on at least two occasions. He also repeatedly sexually harassed her, trying to get her to have sex with other people as well.
The military court, based in part on audio recordings that the woman made, determined that in the first instance of rape, the officer had forced her to have sex with him and then made her clean up the floor afterwards, before giving her the work permit.
A few days later, he called her and told her that he had rescinded the permit and again forced her to have sex with him in order to get it back.
In both cases, the Palestinian woman refused his demands for sex, and in both cases, he threatened to take away her work permit if she told anyone about the rape.
He was also convicted of receiving a bribe by forcing another Palestinian woman to have sex with him multiple times in exchange for a work permit. Despite the clear power imbalance, this was not deemed to have been rape as the victim did not explicitly refuse his demands for sex.”
So tell me, you believe one Israeli soldier raping and coercing at least two Palestinian women is fine. What is the number at which rape becomes unacceptable to you?
What is the number of civilian casualties before indiscriminate bombing becomes unacceptable to you?
Because it seems from your attitude the answer is — the limit does not exist so long as the victims are Palestinians. So just say so. Don’t play games that you suddenly care about rape or the abuse of children.
What the soldier did was horrible. But! he was caught and brought to justice. The rapes of Israeli women by Hamas animals was celebrated in Gaza. None of the terrorists would have bet face justice unless Israel brought it upon them. In fact, WB pays the terrorists salary for life and to their families when the terrorist
are “martyred”
In your last three posts you’ve gone from “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians” to “it only ever happened once” to “it’s fine when the Israelis do because this particular individual went to jail”. Do you think his is the only such case?
Rape isn’t justified. Period. It’s barbaric when Hamas does it and it’s barbaric when the Israelis do it. The difference is that one is a group globally recognized as terrorists and one is a country absolutely insisting they care about civilians and then behaving counter to those statements.
DP. You are talking to several different posters. And it is
absolutely disgusting that you refuse to acknowledge what horrific atrocities Hamas perpetrated on Jewish women and girls. It wasn't JUST rape, though that's bad enough. Here's just a sampling. Now please shut up with your ONE example of an IDF soldier coercing a woman into having sex with him in return for a work permit. As if there's ANY comparison at all.
In the video, the woman known as Witness S mimes the attackers picking up and passing the victim from one to another.
"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back."
She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault.
"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it."
The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues.
"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates."
One man we spoke to from the festival site said he heard the "noises and screams of people being murdered, raped, decapitated".
To our question about how he could be sure - without seeing it - that the screams he heard indicated sexual assault rather than other kinds of violence, he said he believed while listening at the time that it could only have been rape.
A statement he made through a support organisation describes it as "inhuman".
"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies," his statement says. "I desperately wanted to help, but there was nothing I could do."
Multiple photographs from the sites after the attack show the bodies of women naked from the waist down, or with their underwear ripped to one side, legs splayed, with signs of trauma to their genitals and legs.
"It really feels like Hamas learned how to weaponise women's bodies from ISIS [the Islamic State group] in Iraq, from cases in Bosnia," said Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, a legal expert at the Davis Institute of International Relations at Hebrew University.
"It brings me chills just to know the details that they knew about what to do to women: cut their organs, mutilate their genitals, rape. It's horrifying to know this."
"I spoke with at least three girls who are now hospitalised for a very hard psychiatric situation because of the rapes they watched," Minister May Golan told me. "They pretended to be dead and they watched it, and heard everything. And they can't deal with it."
Israel's police chief Yaacov Shabtai said that many survivors of the attacks were finding it difficult to talk and that he thought some of them would never testify about what they saw or experienced.
"Eighteen young men and women have been hospitalised in mental health hospitals because they could no longer function," he said.
Others are reportedly suicidal. One of those working with the teams around survivors told the BBC that some had already killed themselves.
Much of the evidence has come from the volunteer body-collectors deployed after the attacks, and those who handled the bodies once they arrived at the Shura army base for identification.
One of the body-collectors volunteering with the religious organisation Zaka described to me signs of torture and mutilation which included, he said, a pregnant woman whose womb had been ripped open before she was killed, and her foetus stabbed while it was inside her.
"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says.
At the festival site, he says small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each."
Hundreds of bodies were collected from the attack sites by volunteers.
"For the first five days, we still had terrorists on the ground in Israel," May Golan said. "And there were hundreds, hundreds of bodies everywhere. They were burned, they were without organs, they were butchered completely."
"This was a mass casualty event," police spokesman Dean Elsdunne told journalists at a briefing.
Teams here told us they'd seen clear evidence of rape and sexual violence on the bodies coming in, including broken pelvises from sustained violent abuse.
"We see women of all ages," one of the reservists on the forensic team, Captain Maayan, told the BBC. "We see rape victims. We see women who have been through violation. We have pathologists and we see the bruises, we learn about the cuts and tears, and we know they have been sexually abused."
I ask her what proportion of the bodies she's handled show signs of this.
"Abundant," she said. "Abundant amount of women and girls of all ages."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
You're quoting things that in many cases have already been debunked.
Most of the graphic stories of rape and mutilation come from Zaka, an organization with no coroner credentials staffed by poorly trained, extremely religious volunteers who depend on fundraising, which in turn depends on good stories. The leader of Zaka was known as Israel's Jeffrey Epstein for his predatory sexual habits he visited on both girls and boys.
Many stories they told turned out to be outright falsehood. Forty beheaded babies, dead babies on a laundry line - remember that for each of these stories, multiple people in positions of authority stood up and said "I saw it with my own eyes", only to later retract and to say that in fact they didn't.
Pregnant woman in Be'eri with her stomach cut open and fetus stabbed: according to the official records of the dead, no one in Be'eri was pregnant.
Two teenage sisters raped and killed next to each other: there are no sibling pairs in Be'eri who match this description. The only pair of twin sisters, 12-year olds, were killed by Israeli tank shells.
Women raped with "all of their internal organs removed"? Like, ALL of them? How long would that even take?
On and on.
"In an October 12 interview with the Israeli Foreign Ministry-funded i24 channel, Landau claimed that upon entering a home in Kibbutz Beeri, “we see a pregnant lady lying on the floor, and then we turn her around and see that the stomach is cut open, wide open. The unborn baby, still connected with an umbilical cord, was stabbed with a knife. And the mother was shot in the head. And you use your imagination, trying to figure out what came first.”
Landau appears to have crafted this testimony based on a rumor that an anonymous military source spread online two days prior. According to the source, the supposedly pregnant victim was 30 years old. This alone discredited Landau’s claim, because the only female victims recorded in or around Beeri were 44-year-old Rinat Segev Even and 22-year-old Tair Bira — and neither were pregnant. In fact, no pregnant women were registered among those killed on October 7.
Kibbutz Beeri tacitly denied Landau’s claims in a December 3 statement to the Israeli paper Haaretz, declaring, “the story of the pregnant woman reported by ZAKA is not relevant to Beeri.” As one source involved in examining the bodies explained to the outlet, “the volunteers are not pathology experts and have no professional tools to identify the murdered person and his age, or to declare the manner in which he was slaughtered.” For their part, Israeli police assert they have no record of the incident.
Landau’s almost absurdly graphic fable was nevertheless amplified by the Israeli military’s official social media account, which claimed to possess photos of the crime that it could not publish over concerns they risked violating Twitter/X’s terms of use. Despite Israel’s eagerness to exhibit the atrocities of October 7 no matter how grisly, the photos do not seem to have materialized in any forum. "
In a desperate bid to validate Landau’s dubious claims, an Israeli social media user created a video combining the ZAKA volunteer’s testimony with footage of a Mexican drug cartel torturing a prisoner to death. The fake video quickly went viral in Hebrew social media circles, even attracting the attention of Israeli President Isaac Herzog’s wife. In a November 22 op-ed for Newsweek, Israeli First Lady Michal Herzog asserted that “a Hamas video from a kibbutz shows terrorists torturing a pregnant woman and removing her fetus.”
Of course, no such video existed. The only source was Landau, the master storyteller from ZAKA.
Meanwhile, Landau insisted that he “saw 20 children shot, burned and piled together in two piles.” He added that the children’s hands had been tied before they were supposedly burned by Hamas militants. Yet this was an absolute impossibility, as a total of 13 children were killed during the October 7 attack—and the most found in a single location was 3. And as The Grayzone previously revealed, the largest pile of burned Israeli bodies in Kibbutz Beeri were scorched after the Israeli military decided to deliberately shell a home filled with 13 Israeli captives.
Landau then told i24 that he stepped into a neighboring house and witnessed yet another gut-wrenching atrocity: “In the living room we see two parents, mother and father, with hands tied behind their backs. Lying by their side were two small children, with their hands also tied behind their back. They were all burned to death. The terrorists were sitting at the table and eating while they torched them to death.”
The bogus testimony quickly reverberated on Washington’s Capitol Hill, where it was repeated almost word-for-word by Secretary of State Blinken during an October 31 Senate hearing. As explained above, there is simply no record of any children killed in the manner Landau described, or any dead matching the ages of 6 and 7 which he claimed. (Blinken said they were 6 and 8). The closest match among all those killed on October 7 was Eitan and Alin Kapshitter, who were 5 and 8 years old, respectively. They were not killed in a house, however, but in a car when their parents tragically drove into the crossfire of Israeli and Hamas forces by mistake.
As Landau’s macabre tales generated international headlines, his colleague at ZAKA, Simcha Dizingoff, spouted off a few made-for-foreign-media-consumption stories of his own. Describing an October 11 visit to Kfar Aza, Dizingoff told The Guardian that he saw “a woman, naked from the waist down, [who] had been bent over a bed and then shot in the back of the head. When the team tried to move her, a live grenade rolled out of her clenched hand.”
Considering the Israeli army had already cleared the kibbutz by October 11, his account raised serious questions. How did the army’s bomb disposal experts miss a live grenade in the hand of a naked woman splayed out over a bed? And why has Israel’s newly formed “Civil Commission on Oct 7th Crimes by Hamas against Women and Children,” which is frantically searching for any shred of evidence implicating Hamas in mass rape, so far failed to mention this shocking incident?
Yet Dizingoff’s feverish imagination kept churning, as he claimed to have seen “one child, aged about six, had been killed by a knife plunged into his skull.”
The official record of deaths from Kfar Aza shows that no child younger than 14 was killed in the kibbutz, making Dizingoff’s version of events virtually impossible. As with the graphic fables spun by Landau, Dizengoff provided no documentation to back up his claims — no cellphone photos, forensic evidence, or even corroborating testimony.
As cynical as the ZAKA fabrications may seem, they were entirely consistent with the ethos of the organization and its founder: a serial sex abuser who funneled millions from donors into his own decadent pursuits.
You must realize when the tales of atrocity porn are told and retold, that you're being told this story because the source wants to get a certain reaction out of you.
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