Anonymous wrote:Championing everything Lucy Calkins WAS an effort led by Democrats. Let’s not revise history.
And it has had CATASTROPHIC results for many students, especially lower SES.
But yeah, let’s praise Democrats for finally figuring out that it was an epic failure. And blindly follow them with their SBG/no homework/SEL-first initiatives.
You know who hasn’t given up on actual academic instruction? China.
Not having an educated workforce is a security issue.
I guess that explains why the traitorous GOP is trying to kill our schools.
I know you don’t want to believe it, but some of us aren’t MAGA Republicans. It probably makes you feel better to pretend that we are, because then you don’t have to admit that a lot of people are being pushed toward the center (or toward the right) by asinine D initiatives.
Just look at Missing Middle. Was it just MAGA Republicans opposing it? Nope.
Anyone voting for Republicans in recent years has declared that MAGA is acceptable.
Call yourself whatever you want but if you voted for Youngkin your actions speak louder than words.
Anonymous wrote:Championing everything Lucy Calkins WAS an effort led by Democrats. Let’s not revise history.
And it has had CATASTROPHIC results for many students, especially lower SES.
But yeah, let’s praise Democrats for finally figuring out that it was an epic failure. And blindly follow them with their SBG/no homework/SEL-first initiatives.
You know who hasn’t given up on actual academic instruction? China.
Not having an educated workforce is a security issue.
I guess that explains why the traitorous GOP is trying to kill our schools.
I know you don’t want to believe it, but some of us aren’t MAGA Republicans. It probably makes you feel better to pretend that we are, because then you don’t have to admit that a lot of people are being pushed toward the center (or toward the right) by asinine D initiatives.
Just look at Missing Middle. Was it just MAGA Republicans opposing it? Nope.
I’m fine with Missing Middle. We live adjacent to the city- fine by me if people want to live here (and hopefully support our local businesses and ride public transit).
I’m not at all ok with APS.
And I’m not a MAGA Republican. Nothing is more disappointing than people in a supposedly educated county who can’t have a nuanced discussion because they are so caught up in “their” side being right. I swear the dumbest people I’ve ever met are right in Arlington.
Anonymous wrote:Championing everything Lucy Calkins WAS an effort led by Democrats. Let’s not revise history.
And it has had CATASTROPHIC results for many students, especially lower SES.
But yeah, let’s praise Democrats for finally figuring out that it was an epic failure. And blindly follow them with their SBG/no homework/SEL-first initiatives.
You know who hasn’t given up on actual academic instruction? China.
Not having an educated workforce is a security issue.
I guess that explains why the traitorous GOP is trying to kill our schools.
I know you don’t want to believe it, but some of us aren’t MAGA Republicans. It probably makes you feel better to pretend that we are, because then you don’t have to admit that a lot of people are being pushed toward the center (or toward the right) by asinine D initiatives.
Just look at Missing Middle. Was it just MAGA Republicans opposing it? Nope.
I’m fine with Missing Middle. We live adjacent to the city- fine by me if people want to live here (and hopefully support our local businesses and ride public transit).
I’m not at all ok with APS.
And I’m not a MAGA Republican. Nothing is more disappointing than people in a supposedly educated county who can’t have a nuanced discussion because they are so caught up in “their” side being right. I swear the dumbest people I’ve ever met are right in Arlington.
Did you vote for Youngkin?
What’s nuanced about PPs pushing hyperbole and GOP talking points about equity?
Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.
I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.
Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.
If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.
I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?
Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.
Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.
SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.
So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.
You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.
DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.
Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?
In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.
It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.
Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.
Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.
You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.
The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.
This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?
How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.
I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.
Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.
What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?
“What is wrong with vouchers?”
Really?
I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.
Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?
***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.
I doubt those parents are losing sleep over vouchers.
That is who will use to the voucher funds and “defund” the public schools. Just look at red states with vouchers.
I notice not a single anti-voucher poster has agreed the schools could be desegregated in Arlington.
I believe they can be. I also believe they won't be - not because it isn't possible; but because "the community" will push back and make sure it doesn't happen. I not only believe this, I KNOW it. How? Because it's been debated and discussed numerous times in various venues and every boundary process brings out the "neighborhood schools" and "walkability" missiles.
This is O/Tbut studies show low income students don’t benefit from mere exposure to higher income peers. It can actually be counterproductive if steps aren’t taken to provide more holistic support to the kids.
Also, buses aren’t free, and it is only getting harder to find drivers. $23/hr P/T just isn’t cutting it anymore. There’s only so much you can do with school start times to stretch what you have. You could make people drive, but that doesn’t benefit the kids whose parents don’t have cars or the kind of flex in their day to do 9 am drop offs and 350 pm pickups across county.
In short, concerns about neighborhoods and walkability aren’t just racism/classism.
The point was nobody believed it COULD. I believe it CAN and, as stated, know that it WON'T.
I agree with you. And I’ll support vouchers all day every day if APS won’t integrate the schools.
Haven’t you figured it out yet? It doesn’t matter the teeniest, tiniest bit what you’ll “support all day every day.”
Haven’t you figured out that this is an anonymous message board where we share our viewpoints, and I’m making the point that as bad as many of Youngkin’s policy positions are, APS has also made some pretty bad calls? If people want vouchers, APS only has itself to blame. Youngkin isn’t the enemy here, as bad as you want him to be.
If people want vouchers, they are misinformed and swayed by GOP propaganda.
It has every bit as much to do with the gross mismanagement of local public school systems by Democrats as “GOP propaganda.” You do know many Democrats send their kids to private schools, right?
“Gross mismanagement”? Nope.
Most Ds don’t expect taxpayers to subsidize their kid’s private school. That’s a Republican grift.
Just tired of D’s mismanaging my tax dollars and turning my school system into a mess. One bad decision after another.
I’d use a voucher to get out of APS, too.
(I’ve paid my taxes. And now I’d like some choice when it comes to where my child attends school, rather than being forced to send them somewhere that keeps getting worse every year.)
The school system isn’t a mess.
You sound like Miranda’s angry/irrational MAGA husband.
This is how I know you’re a moron. (Or is it denial?)
Kids have been struggling everywhere since the pandemic. But that is improving. Teachers have been unhappy everywhere. Is it perfect? No. But APS is not getting worse every year. It’s dealing with these various (nationwide) challenges in reasonable ways.
It’s naive and selfish to believe that vouchers are the solution. Some people are just so irrational. That’s what leads to bad decisions.
Just like this Nottingham discussion. If it makes sense for APS to use it as swing space (which it does right now), then suck it up.
You really think ACPS was okay pre-pandemic? I view that school system as a cautionary tale, and it has nothing to do with Covid.
And yes, APS is on the decline, just like it was pre-pandemic. Look at literacy rates in the upper grades! Those kids aren’t struggling to read because they missed in-person school…
All the more reason to oppose vouchers.
Lucy Hawkins harmed literacy for a whole generation of kids. Fortunately, APS is moving towards science of reading. That is a good thing.
And guess which party pushed whole language and balanced literacy on us?
Yep, Democrats.
Republicans have always been pro-phonics.
Ha ha ha! Republicans have never been pro-public schools or anything specific curriculum-wise other than things that align with Christian beliefs.
Anonymous wrote:Championing everything Lucy Calkins WAS an effort led by Democrats. Let’s not revise history.
And it has had CATASTROPHIC results for many students, especially lower SES.
But yeah, let’s praise Democrats for finally figuring out that it was an epic failure. And blindly follow them with their SBG/no homework/SEL-first initiatives.
You know who hasn’t given up on actual academic instruction? China.
Not having an educated workforce is a security issue.
Probably because Democrats are the only ones advocating for anything in public education.
Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.
I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.
Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.
If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.
I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?
Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.
Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.
SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.
So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.
You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.
DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.
Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?
In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.
It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.
Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.
Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.
You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.
The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.
This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?
How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.
I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.
Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.
What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?
“What is wrong with vouchers?”
Really?
I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.
Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?
***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.
I doubt those parents are losing sleep over vouchers.
That is who will use to the voucher funds and “defund” the public schools. Just look at red states with vouchers.
I notice not a single anti-voucher poster has agreed the schools could be desegregated in Arlington.
I believe they can be. I also believe they won't be - not because it isn't possible; but because "the community" will push back and make sure it doesn't happen. I not only believe this, I KNOW it. How? Because it's been debated and discussed numerous times in various venues and every boundary process brings out the "neighborhood schools" and "walkability" missiles.
This is O/Tbut studies show low income students don’t benefit from mere exposure to higher income peers. It can actually be counterproductive if steps aren’t taken to provide more holistic support to the kids.
Also, buses aren’t free, and it is only getting harder to find drivers. $23/hr P/T just isn’t cutting it anymore. There’s only so much you can do with school start times to stretch what you have. You could make people drive, but that doesn’t benefit the kids whose parents don’t have cars or the kind of flex in their day to do 9 am drop offs and 350 pm pickups across county.
In short, concerns about neighborhoods and walkability aren’t just racism/classism.
The point was nobody believed it COULD. I believe it CAN and, as stated, know that it WON'T.
I agree with you. And I’ll support vouchers all day every day if APS won’t integrate the schools.
Haven’t you figured it out yet? It doesn’t matter the teeniest, tiniest bit what you’ll “support all day every day.”
Haven’t you figured out that this is an anonymous message board where we share our viewpoints, and I’m making the point that as bad as many of Youngkin’s policy positions are, APS has also made some pretty bad calls? If people want vouchers, APS only has itself to blame. Youngkin isn’t the enemy here, as bad as you want him to be.
If people want vouchers, they are misinformed and swayed by GOP propaganda.
It has every bit as much to do with the gross mismanagement of local public school systems by Democrats as “GOP propaganda.” You do know many Democrats send their kids to private schools, right?
“Gross mismanagement”? Nope.
Most Ds don’t expect taxpayers to subsidize their kid’s private school. That’s a Republican grift.
Just tired of D’s mismanaging my tax dollars and turning my school system into a mess. One bad decision after another.
I’d use a voucher to get out of APS, too.
(I’ve paid my taxes. And now I’d like some choice when it comes to where my child attends school, rather than being forced to send them somewhere that keeps getting worse every year.)
The school system isn’t a mess.
You sound like Miranda’s angry/irrational MAGA husband.
This is how I know you’re a moron. (Or is it denial?)
Kids have been struggling everywhere since the pandemic. But that is improving. Teachers have been unhappy everywhere. Is it perfect? No. But APS is not getting worse every year. It’s dealing with these various (nationwide) challenges in reasonable ways.
It’s naive and selfish to believe that vouchers are the solution. Some people are just so irrational. That’s what leads to bad decisions.
Just like this Nottingham discussion. If it makes sense for APS to use it as swing space (which it does right now), then suck it up.
You really think ACPS was okay pre-pandemic? I view that school system as a cautionary tale, and it has nothing to do with Covid.
And yes, APS is on the decline, just like it was pre-pandemic. Look at literacy rates in the upper grades! Those kids aren’t struggling to read because they missed in-person school…
All the more reason to oppose vouchers.
Lucy Hawkins harmed literacy for a whole generation of kids. Fortunately, APS is moving towards science of reading. That is a good thing.
And guess which party pushed whole language and balanced literacy on us?
Yep, Democrats.
Republicans have always been pro-phonics.
Ha ha ha! Republicans have never been pro-public schools or anything specific curriculum-wise other than things that align with Christian beliefs.
Im not saying I agree with all things Republican when it comes to schools. But YES, they absolutely WERE in favor of explicit phonics instruction.
Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.
I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.
Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.
If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.
I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?
Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.
Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.
SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.
So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.
You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.
DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.
Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?
In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.
It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.
Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.
Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.
You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.
The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.
This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?
How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.
I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.
Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.
What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?
“What is wrong with vouchers?”
Really?
I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.
Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?
***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.
I doubt those parents are losing sleep over vouchers.
That is who will use to the voucher funds and “defund” the public schools. Just look at red states with vouchers.
I notice not a single anti-voucher poster has agreed the schools could be desegregated in Arlington.
I believe they can be. I also believe they won't be - not because it isn't possible; but because "the community" will push back and make sure it doesn't happen. I not only believe this, I KNOW it. How? Because it's been debated and discussed numerous times in various venues and every boundary process brings out the "neighborhood schools" and "walkability" missiles.
This is O/Tbut studies show low income students don’t benefit from mere exposure to higher income peers. It can actually be counterproductive if steps aren’t taken to provide more holistic support to the kids.
Also, buses aren’t free, and it is only getting harder to find drivers. $23/hr P/T just isn’t cutting it anymore. There’s only so much you can do with school start times to stretch what you have. You could make people drive, but that doesn’t benefit the kids whose parents don’t have cars or the kind of flex in their day to do 9 am drop offs and 350 pm pickups across county.
In short, concerns about neighborhoods and walkability aren’t just racism/classism.
The point was nobody believed it COULD. I believe it CAN and, as stated, know that it WON'T.
I agree with you. And I’ll support vouchers all day every day if APS won’t integrate the schools.
Haven’t you figured it out yet? It doesn’t matter the teeniest, tiniest bit what you’ll “support all day every day.”
Haven’t you figured out that this is an anonymous message board where we share our viewpoints, and I’m making the point that as bad as many of Youngkin’s policy positions are, APS has also made some pretty bad calls? If people want vouchers, APS only has itself to blame. Youngkin isn’t the enemy here, as bad as you want him to be.
If people want vouchers, they are misinformed and swayed by GOP propaganda.
It has every bit as much to do with the gross mismanagement of local public school systems by Democrats as “GOP propaganda.” You do know many Democrats send their kids to private schools, right?
“Gross mismanagement”? Nope.
Most Ds don’t expect taxpayers to subsidize their kid’s private school. That’s a Republican grift.
Just tired of D’s mismanaging my tax dollars and turning my school system into a mess. One bad decision after another.
I’d use a voucher to get out of APS, too.
(I’ve paid my taxes. And now I’d like some choice when it comes to where my child attends school, rather than being forced to send them somewhere that keeps getting worse every year.)
The school system isn’t a mess.
You sound like Miranda’s angry/irrational MAGA husband.
This is how I know you’re a moron. (Or is it denial?)
Kids have been struggling everywhere since the pandemic. But that is improving. Teachers have been unhappy everywhere. Is it perfect? No. But APS is not getting worse every year. It’s dealing with these various (nationwide) challenges in reasonable ways.
It’s naive and selfish to believe that vouchers are the solution. Some people are just so irrational. That’s what leads to bad decisions.
Just like this Nottingham discussion. If it makes sense for APS to use it as swing space (which it does right now), then suck it up.
You really think ACPS was okay pre-pandemic? I view that school system as a cautionary tale, and it has nothing to do with Covid.
And yes, APS is on the decline, just like it was pre-pandemic. Look at literacy rates in the upper grades! Those kids aren’t struggling to read because they missed in-person school…
All the more reason to oppose vouchers.
Lucy Hawkins harmed literacy for a whole generation of kids. Fortunately, APS is moving towards science of reading. That is a good thing.
And guess which party pushed whole language and balanced literacy on us?
Yep, Democrats.
Republicans have always been pro-phonics.
Ha ha ha! Republicans have never been pro-public schools or anything specific curriculum-wise other than things that align with Christian beliefs.
Im not saying I agree with all things Republican when it comes to schools. But YES, they absolutely WERE in favor of explicit phonics instruction.
Anonymous wrote:Championing everything Lucy Calkins WAS an effort led by Democrats. Let’s not revise history.
And it has had CATASTROPHIC results for many students, especially lower SES.
But yeah, let’s praise Democrats for finally figuring out that it was an epic failure. And blindly follow them with their SBG/no homework/SEL-first initiatives.
You know who hasn’t given up on actual academic instruction? China.
Not having an educated workforce is a security issue.
I don’t remember Rs opposing Lucy Calkins or championing science of reading. That’s made up. I do remember years of Rs underfunding schools, attacking teachers and distracting from the real issues with their culture wars.
Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.
I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.
Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.
If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.
I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?
Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.
Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.
SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.
So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.
You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.
DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.
Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?
In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.
It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.
Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.
Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.
You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.
The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.
This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?
How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.
I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.
Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.
What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?
“What is wrong with vouchers?”
Really?
I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.
Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?
***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.
I doubt those parents are losing sleep over vouchers.
That is who will use to the voucher funds and “defund” the public schools. Just look at red states with vouchers.
I notice not a single anti-voucher poster has agreed the schools could be desegregated in Arlington.
I believe they can be. I also believe they won't be - not because it isn't possible; but because "the community" will push back and make sure it doesn't happen. I not only believe this, I KNOW it. How? Because it's been debated and discussed numerous times in various venues and every boundary process brings out the "neighborhood schools" and "walkability" missiles.
This is O/Tbut studies show low income students don’t benefit from mere exposure to higher income peers. It can actually be counterproductive if steps aren’t taken to provide more holistic support to the kids.
Also, buses aren’t free, and it is only getting harder to find drivers. $23/hr P/T just isn’t cutting it anymore. There’s only so much you can do with school start times to stretch what you have. You could make people drive, but that doesn’t benefit the kids whose parents don’t have cars or the kind of flex in their day to do 9 am drop offs and 350 pm pickups across county.
In short, concerns about neighborhoods and walkability aren’t just racism/classism.
The point was nobody believed it COULD. I believe it CAN and, as stated, know that it WON'T.
I agree with you. And I’ll support vouchers all day every day if APS won’t integrate the schools.
Haven’t you figured it out yet? It doesn’t matter the teeniest, tiniest bit what you’ll “support all day every day.”
Haven’t you figured out that this is an anonymous message board where we share our viewpoints, and I’m making the point that as bad as many of Youngkin’s policy positions are, APS has also made some pretty bad calls? If people want vouchers, APS only has itself to blame. Youngkin isn’t the enemy here, as bad as you want him to be.
If people want vouchers, they are misinformed and swayed by GOP propaganda.
It has every bit as much to do with the gross mismanagement of local public school systems by Democrats as “GOP propaganda.” You do know many Democrats send their kids to private schools, right?
“Gross mismanagement”? Nope.
Most Ds don’t expect taxpayers to subsidize their kid’s private school. That’s a Republican grift.
Just tired of D’s mismanaging my tax dollars and turning my school system into a mess. One bad decision after another.
I’d use a voucher to get out of APS, too.
(I’ve paid my taxes. And now I’d like some choice when it comes to where my child attends school, rather than being forced to send them somewhere that keeps getting worse every year.)
The school system isn’t a mess.
You sound like Miranda’s angry/irrational MAGA husband.
This is how I know you’re a moron. (Or is it denial?)
Kids have been struggling everywhere since the pandemic. But that is improving. Teachers have been unhappy everywhere. Is it perfect? No. But APS is not getting worse every year. It’s dealing with these various (nationwide) challenges in reasonable ways.
It’s naive and selfish to believe that vouchers are the solution. Some people are just so irrational. That’s what leads to bad decisions.
Just like this Nottingham discussion. If it makes sense for APS to use it as swing space (which it does right now), then suck it up.
You really think ACPS was okay pre-pandemic? I view that school system as a cautionary tale, and it has nothing to do with Covid.
And yes, APS is on the decline, just like it was pre-pandemic. Look at literacy rates in the upper grades! Those kids aren’t struggling to read because they missed in-person school…
All the more reason to oppose vouchers.
Lucy Hawkins harmed literacy for a whole generation of kids. Fortunately, APS is moving towards science of reading. That is a good thing.
And guess which party pushed whole language and balanced literacy on us?
Yep, Democrats.
Republicans have always been pro-phonics.
Ha ha ha! Republicans have never been pro-public schools or anything specific curriculum-wise other than things that align with Christian beliefs.
Im not saying I agree with all things Republican when it comes to schools. But YES, they absolutely WERE in favor of explicit phonics instruction.
Like they even knew what that was. Ha! Maybe they jumped on board recently when it hit the news. That is it.
Anonymous wrote:Championing everything Lucy Calkins WAS an effort led by Democrats. Let’s not revise history.
And it has had CATASTROPHIC results for many students, especially lower SES.
But yeah, let’s praise Democrats for finally figuring out that it was an epic failure. And blindly follow them with their SBG/no homework/SEL-first initiatives.
You know who hasn’t given up on actual academic instruction? China.
Not having an educated workforce is a security issue.
I guess that explains why the traitorous GOP is trying to kill our schools.
I know you don’t want to believe it, but some of us aren’t MAGA Republicans. It probably makes you feel better to pretend that we are, because then you don’t have to admit that a lot of people are being pushed toward the center (or toward the right) by asinine D initiatives.
Just look at Missing Middle. Was it just MAGA Republicans opposing it? Nope.
Arlington doesn’t have as many outwardly raging MAGA Rs as other places but the quieter Rs and DINOs who voted for Trump and Youngkin do a lot of damage too.
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