Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

In the case of the IDF soldier we only know about it because a gag order was lifted in 2021. It’s not unreasonable to assume more gag orders exist. It’s also reasonable to assume that rape is as underreported elsewhere in the world as it is in the United States.

Which should just remind people: it is foolish to make blanket statements about the behavior of participants in this conflict in an effort to “win” a moral high ground which neither side is working hard to achieve.

When you find me a story of IFF raping and passing multiple Arab women around, cutting off their breasts, shooting them while raping them, we will talk about the moral high ground. Until then, you got nothing .

So you’re good with rape, just not all rape.

Thats fine but own your position.

No, I am not good with rape. Rape is present and is inevitable in every society. But the type of rape we saw in October 7, is not present in every society. Don’t try to even attempt to equate isolated incidents with a mass rape event that was so barbaric in nature, humanity has not seen this before. And the fact that you don’t see this, speaks volumes of who you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

In the case of the IDF soldier we only know about it because a gag order was lifted in 2021. It’s not unreasonable to assume more gag orders exist. It’s also reasonable to assume that rape is as underreported elsewhere in the world as it is in the United States.

Which should just remind people: it is foolish to make blanket statements about the behavior of participants in this conflict in an effort to “win” a moral high ground which neither side is working hard to achieve.

When you find me a story of IFF raping and passing multiple Arab women around, cutting off their breasts, shooting them while raping them, we will talk about the moral high ground. Until then, you got nothing .

So you’re good with rape, just not all rape.

Thats fine but own your position.

No, I am not good with rape. Rape is present and is inevitable in every society. But the type of rape we saw in October 7, is not present in every society. Don’t try to even attempt to equate isolated incidents with a mass rape event that was so barbaric in nature, humanity has not seen this before. And the fact that you don’t see this, speaks volumes of who you are.

A poster alleged that Israelis do not rape Palestinian women. Instead of blaming me for pointing out the obvious lie— validated by the Israeli justice system, widely reported in Israeli media— come get your liar.

No one “equated” anything, simply pointed out that it is verifiably untrue that Israeli’s “do NOT” rape Palestinian women. Pointing that out does nothing to absolve Hamas of using rape and gender based violence brutally. This is back in “two wrongs don’t make a right” territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

In the case of the IDF soldier we only know about it because a gag order was lifted in 2021. It’s not unreasonable to assume more gag orders exist. It’s also reasonable to assume that rape is as underreported elsewhere in the world as it is in the United States.

Which should just remind people: it is foolish to make blanket statements about the behavior of participants in this conflict in an effort to “win” a moral high ground which neither side is working hard to achieve.

When you find me a story of IFF raping and passing multiple Arab women around, cutting off their breasts, shooting them while raping them, we will talk about the moral high ground. Until then, you got nothing .

So you’re good with rape, just not all rape.

Thats fine but own your position.

No, I am not good with rape. Rape is present and is inevitable in every society. But the type of rape we saw in October 7, is not present in every society. Don’t try to even attempt to equate isolated incidents with a mass rape event that was so barbaric in nature, humanity has not seen this before. And the fact that you don’t see this, speaks volumes of who you are.

A poster alleged that Israelis do not rape Palestinian women. Instead of blaming me for pointing out the obvious lie— validated by the Israeli justice system, widely reported in Israeli media— come get your liar.

No one “equated” anything, simply pointed out that it is verifiably untrue that Israeli’s “do NOT” rape Palestinian women. Pointing that out does nothing to absolve Hamas of using rape and gender based violence brutally. This is back in “two wrongs don’t make a right” territory.

But it does absolve Israel of killing 20,000 plus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

In the case of the IDF soldier we only know about it because a gag order was lifted in 2021. It’s not unreasonable to assume more gag orders exist. It’s also reasonable to assume that rape is as underreported elsewhere in the world as it is in the United States.

Which should just remind people: it is foolish to make blanket statements about the behavior of participants in this conflict in an effort to “win” a moral high ground which neither side is working hard to achieve.

When you find me a story of IFF raping and passing multiple Arab women around, cutting off their breasts, shooting them while raping them, we will talk about the moral high ground. Until then, you got nothing .

So you’re good with rape, just not all rape.

Thats fine but own your position.

No, I am not good with rape. Rape is present and is inevitable in every society. But the type of rape we saw in October 7, is not present in every society. Don’t try to even attempt to equate isolated incidents with a mass rape event that was so barbaric in nature, humanity has not seen this before. And the fact that you don’t see this, speaks volumes of who you are.

A poster alleged that Israelis do not rape Palestinian women. Instead of blaming me for pointing out the obvious lie— validated by the Israeli justice system, widely reported in Israeli media— come get your liar.

No one “equated” anything, simply pointed out that it is verifiably untrue that Israeli’s “do NOT” rape Palestinian women. Pointing that out does nothing to absolve Hamas of using rape and gender based violence brutally. This is back in “two wrongs don’t make a right” territory.

But it does absolve Israel of killing 20,000 plus.

I hope you do not really believe that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

Well, and let’s be clear, Jews have suffered at the hands of Arabs for centuries. So if we’re going to get caught up in who did what and proportional response, Arabs or Palestinians do not have a leg to stand on.

But fortunately for the Palestinians most people on the world know very little about history, know even less about Jewish history in the Levant region and the Middle East more broadly, and also hate Jews. Nothing Israel says, shows, does - or Jews for that matter - will be enough.

Are you a real person? What is your life story? I’m half
Jewish (Ukrainian). But I’m also half Irish:English, and Austrian . And married to an Indian. And travelled to the middle east in 03-04. I see the Israeli perspective. But I also see there is an alternative world view. Do you? I’m curious about your perspective and if you honestly know history or just biblical stories.

I’m neither you nor the poster you quoted, and I agree with you. I’m a nearly fully Ashkenazi Jewish (ancestors killed in holocaust, and some made it here eventually). I also converted decades ago to Islam. I’ve heard the perspectives from my parents’-side family. I’ve heard the perspective from my wife’s family. I have Jewish friends and Muslim friends. I’ve heard all the misconceptions from both sides about each other. I’ve been to the Middle East as well. I’ve studied the history heavily academically. You have to take all the issues in perspective and context and in relation to prior history, but also understand that the only way to break the current loop is to accept reality of where we are and that getting to peace means giving something up. The group with the most power has the most responsibility and ability to stop the cycle. Right now, that is Israel. We can even demonstrate this. If Palestinians simply take the higher road (which they should) and turn to peaceful protests, it won’t result in as much progress as we get if Israel takes the step to not retaliate, but instead to partner with Palestinians to (re)build functioning society. If only the Palestinians do anything, the result is that Israel will continue settling their lands in West Bank and maybe Gaza. If only Israel does anything and stops attacking and pulls out of half the settlements, there will be some continued clashes, but over a generation (or more?), Palestinians who are younger will see the partnership and not the fighting.

We can’t litigate who has an historical right to the land from thousands of years ago. We can barely discuss the history of the last 200 years.

Well said
This forum has its share of fanatics who litigate Israel’s historical right to anything and everything and especially this war, which has turned out to be very brutal and ruthless.

Yet here we are litigating historical Arab rights to lands they lost to the Jews 75 years ago when they tried to exterminate the jews in 1948 and lost the war. Which in turn are also lands the Arabs lost to the British 106 years ago in 1917.

From what I have read the Arabs were not trying to “exterminate” the Jews, but were fighting against the UN division of their land. I think this is an important distinction because the way you word it, it makes the Palestinians seem horrible / inhumane rather than a people with a reason for their response. Also, the Ottoman Empire lost the land to the British but the Palestinians were still living there.

So the Jewish pogroms in Palestine between 1890-1920 were not trying to “exterminate” the Jews?

No. Not “exterminate”. But yes, pushed out. And these were not Pogroms like what was happening in Russia at the time.

https://balfourproject.org/the-1920-jerusalem-riots-arab-fears-zionist-pressures-faulty-security-cited-in-british-palin-inquiry/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

Well, and let’s be clear, Jews have suffered at the hands of Arabs for centuries. So if we’re going to get caught up in who did what and proportional response, Arabs or Palestinians do not have a leg to stand on.

But fortunately for the Palestinians most people on the world know very little about history, know even less about Jewish history in the Levant region and the Middle East more broadly, and also hate Jews. Nothing Israel says, shows, does - or Jews for that matter - will be enough.

Are you a real person? What is your life story? I’m half
Jewish (Ukrainian). But I’m also half Irish:English, and Austrian . And married to an Indian. And travelled to the middle east in 03-04. I see the Israeli perspective. But I also see there is an alternative world view. Do you? I’m curious about your perspective and if you honestly know history or just biblical stories.

I’m neither you nor the poster you quoted, and I agree with you. I’m a nearly fully Ashkenazi Jewish (ancestors killed in holocaust, and some made it here eventually). I also converted decades ago to Islam. I’ve heard the perspectives from my parents’-side family. I’ve heard the perspective from my wife’s family. I have Jewish friends and Muslim friends. I’ve heard all the misconceptions from both sides about each other. I’ve been to the Middle East as well. I’ve studied the history heavily academically. You have to take all the issues in perspective and context and in relation to prior history, but also understand that the only way to break the current loop is to accept reality of where we are and that getting to peace means giving something up. The group with the most power has the most responsibility and ability to stop the cycle. Right now, that is Israel. We can even demonstrate this. If Palestinians simply take the higher road (which they should) and turn to peaceful protests, it won’t result in as much progress as we get if Israel takes the step to not retaliate, but instead to partner with Palestinians to (re)build functioning society. If only the Palestinians do anything, the result is that Israel will continue settling their lands in West Bank and maybe Gaza. If only Israel does anything and stops attacking and pulls out of half the settlements, there will be some continued clashes, but over a generation (or more?), Palestinians who are younger will see the partnership and not the fighting.

We can’t litigate who has an historical right to the land from thousands of years ago. We can barely discuss the history of the last 200 years.

Well said
This forum has its share of fanatics who litigate Israel’s historical right to anything and everything and especially this war, which has turned out to be very brutal and ruthless.

Yet here we are litigating historical Arab rights to lands they lost to the Jews 75 years ago when they tried to exterminate the jews in 1948 and lost the war. Which in turn are also lands the Arabs lost to the British 106 years ago in 1917.

From what I have read the Arabs were not trying to “exterminate” the Jews, but were fighting against the UN division of their land. I think this is an important distinction because the way you word it, it makes the Palestinians seem horrible / inhumane rather than a people with a reason for their response. Also, the Ottoman Empire lost the land to the British but the Palestinians were still living there.

So the Jewish pogroms in Palestine between 1890-1920 were not trying to “exterminate” the Jews?

No. Not “exterminate”. But yes, pushed out. And these were not Pogroms like what was happening in Russia at the time.

https://balfourproject.org/the-1920-jerusalem-riots-arab-fears-zionist-pressures-faulty-security-cited-in-british-palin-inquiry/

That makes sense. When you kill someone they do get pushed under ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps I missed it, but did the scumbags challenging the reported death toll of 20K+ in Gaza use their anti-semitism bullhorn to impugn the integrity of 200 year old The Lancet and JHU, too? Maybe the bastards behind these findings need a good dose of Zionist doxxing, eh, Bibi bootlickers?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext

That paper still only uses Hamas Ministry of Health data and doesn't give anything other than Hamas data to corroborate numbers, and shrugs off any issues without a single lick of closer examination by saying "well, we think the 2014 Ministry of Health Data was accurate so we aren't going to question it now" - but we KNOW that the Ministry of Health is lying and grossly inflating numbers now. We KNOW IT FOR AN ABSOLUTE FACT, given the lies about "500 killed by an IDF bomb targeting Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital." There were nowhere near that many deaths. WE. KNOW. FOR. A. FACT.

That makes you a Hamas bootlicker.

What are you saying?
20+ thousand have been killed, counted as being brought to the hospital and died there or to the morgue
UNWRA has consistently had similar numbers. Yale professor says that figures are much higher since this excludes the number of people buried under rubble and the toll is increasing daily
There is an outbreak of cholera, a famine

PP is an imbecile. They are incapable of understanding facts, much less how pathetic they are for misstating facts (the article DOES NOT only use one set of data from one source), for attacking a 200 year old journal and JHU (two institutions that are essentially at the top of the leadership list in global health matters), for asserting that they KNOW anything when they very clearly know nothing (Jon Snow), and for assuming anyone is pro-Hamas.

Never change, Bibi Bootlicker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps I missed it, but did the scumbags challenging the reported death toll of 20K+ in Gaza use their anti-semitism bullhorn to impugn the integrity of 200 year old The Lancet and JHU, too? Maybe the bastards behind these findings need a good dose of Zionist doxxing, eh, Bibi bootlickers?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext

That paper still only uses Hamas Ministry of Health data and doesn't give anything other than Hamas data to corroborate numbers, and shrugs off any issues without a single lick of closer examination by saying "well, we think the 2014 Ministry of Health Data was accurate so we aren't going to question it now" - but we KNOW that the Ministry of Health is lying and grossly inflating numbers now. We KNOW IT FOR AN ABSOLUTE FACT, given the lies about "500 killed by an IDF bomb targeting Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital." There were nowhere near that many deaths. WE. KNOW. FOR. A. FACT.

That makes you a Hamas bootlicker.

What are you saying?
20+ thousand have been killed, counted as being brought to the hospital and died there or to the morgue
UNWRA has consistently had similar numbers. Yale professor says that figures are much higher since this excludes the number of people buried under rubble and the toll is increasing daily
There is an outbreak of cholera, a famine

So sad! Given that Israel is using starvation as a weapon, it's hard to see how anyone can call this anything other than genocide

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

They’ve raped more Palestinian men than the women because they know men don’t ever speak out about such things

Cool story bro. Make wild accusations with no proof, and then give yourself fake cover by saying "you won't hear about it because it's suppressed / people are being bought off / they won't talk to it because of cultural issues" etc.

Here is a report about a 15 year old boy who was raped and was subjected to torture in the genitalia in 2021 by Israeli forces.

This incident has been mentioned in interviews by Josh Paul, who resigned from the US state department earlier this year.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

Again for individual reports vs. mass rape event. This is equivalent to when Jeff said about Shani Louk “she had her underwear on”

Ok then say “Israel doesn’t carry out mass rape” and not “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians”.

Don’t make verifiably false statements and then get defensive when someone tells you they’re false. And really if I were in your shoes I’d take a beat on making either of those claims because we don’t know the full scale of what’s happening right now, and you may find yourself re-defining your parameters for behavior yet again.

You are saying that possibly, Israeli soldiers are mass raping Palestinian women, cutting off breasts, and desecrating the bodies, ie parading their corpses through the streets of Tel Aviv while civilian Israelis are spitting on their dead flesh?

No? I am saying it’s possible there is a larger sexual violence issue with the IDF that we don’t yet know about (due to gag orders and also the lack of reporting from Gaza right now) and so I would continue to advise everyone not to make blanket statements about their behavior which are either verifiably false or have the potential to be proven false later. Stick with what is verifiably true.

Unfortunately, you’re only responding to a distraction. They’re trying to spin you in circles defending a position you haven’t taken (Israel does or did EXACTLY what Hamas did on 10/7) to distract you from advancing the position you have taken (Israel has committed atrocities, including rape, as well), which they cannot defend because it’s true.

They actively support a movement that violently displaced indigenous people, that has terrorized those people for decades, and that continues to violate dozens of U.N. Resolutions and flout worldwide condemnation for their acts of aggression against neighboring states in the region. And they support genocide. The End.

[Anonymous]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/politics/us-intelligence-analysis-hamas-influence/index.html

According to this article, "Hamas’ credibility and influence has grown dramatically in the two months since the October 7 terror attack and the onset of Israel’s military response in the Middle East and beyond." What Israel is doing is counter-productive in terms of a long-term solution.

Each act of violence performed by either Hamas or Israel is only escalating the rage and sense of injustice that fuels conflict. Where this vicious cycle will end, I hate to think.

This just underscores how anarchistic the international system is. Within a nation-state, violent crime is handled by the police, perhaps the army (if it's bad enough), and the legal system. We don't allow the parents of a murdered child to dispense justice because they understandably could not be trusted to administer the law objectively. The same is true for Hamas and Israel. The U.N. and international courts don't have the power to deal with the current crisis in an equitable manner that most people could trust to be fair. People make fun of "one world government," but that does seem to be a goal we should strive for.