APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check — our public schools are already in the toilet! We want something better for our kids. Would take vouchers in a heartbeat.

Neat. You still aren’t getting vouchers.

Not yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check — our public schools are already in the toilet! We want something better for our kids. Would take vouchers in a heartbeat.

Neat. You still aren’t getting vouchers.

Not yet.

Not as long as VA retains some shred of decency. If the Rs take the house then VA/women/schools are all doomed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

If you “don’t see that it matters,” you’re not very bright.

Oh, and nobody is getting vouchers. If you want private, pay for it.

I think you meant “if you want vouchers for private, vote for them.”

And believe me, plenty of us plan to.

Your kids are already in private?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check — our public schools are already in the toilet! We want something better for our kids. Would take vouchers in a heartbeat.

Neat. You still aren’t getting vouchers.

Not yet.

Not as long as VA retains some shred of decency. If the Rs take the house then VA/women/schools are all doomed.

Well, if the D’s would stop turning everything to sh!t, maybe we wouldn’t be forced into voting for something different.

— someone else in favor of vouchers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check — our public schools are already in the toilet! We want something better for our kids. Would take vouchers in a heartbeat.

Neat. You still aren’t getting vouchers.

Not yet.

Not as long as VA retains some shred of decency. If the Rs take the house then VA/women/schools are all doomed.

Well, if the D’s would stop turning everything to sh!t, maybe we wouldn’t be forced into voting for something different.

— someone else in favor of vouchers

Is that the story you tell yourself to vote for a POS like Youngkin?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

These parents don't need vouchers in Arlington. If they aren't already in private schools, they're in the option programs.

Some of the private school parents want vouchers. They don't need them but they want them.

I’d love a voucher. I am too “poor” to afford full freight and too “rich” to qualify for financial aid, but I could definitely do half. Give me that voucher and I’m out.

+1 (and all of my neighbors)

No, not “all of your neighbors”. Most of us don’t want to flush our public schools down the toilet.

Yes, all of my neighbors. We just discussed it! (I didn’t say all of Arlington 😂)

Your NES neighbors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

These parents don't need vouchers in Arlington. If they aren't already in private schools, they're in the option programs.

Some of the private school parents want vouchers. They don't need them but they want them.

I’d love a voucher. I am too “poor” to afford full freight and too “rich” to qualify for financial aid, but I could definitely do half. Give me that voucher and I’m out.

+1 (and all of my neighbors)

No, not “all of your neighbors”. Most of us don’t want to flush our public schools down the toilet.

Yes, all of my neighbors. We just discussed it! (I didn’t say all of Arlington 😂)

Your NES neighbors?

SA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

These parents don't need vouchers in Arlington. If they aren't already in private schools, they're in the option programs.

Some of the private school parents want vouchers. They don't need them but they want them.

I’d love a voucher. I am too “poor” to afford full freight and too “rich” to qualify for financial aid, but I could definitely do half. Give me that voucher and I’m out.

+1 (and all of my neighbors)

No, not “all of your neighbors”. Most of us don’t want to flush our public schools down the toilet.

Yes, all of my neighbors. We just discussed it! (I didn’t say all of Arlington 😂)

Your NES neighbors?

SA

They already have their kids in private schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

These parents don't need vouchers in Arlington. If they aren't already in private schools, they're in the option programs.

Some of the private school parents want vouchers. They don't need them but they want them.

I’d love a voucher. I am too “poor” to afford full freight and too “rich” to qualify for financial aid, but I could definitely do half. Give me that voucher and I’m out.

+1 (and all of my neighbors)

No, not “all of your neighbors”. Most of us don’t want to flush our public schools down the toilet.

Yes, all of my neighbors. We just discussed it! (I didn’t say all of Arlington 😂)

Your NES neighbors?

SA

They already have their kids in private schools?

Some, not all.

What’s your point? There aren’t enough spaces in private for those who’d jump ship? We’d see a lot of options appear if vouchers suddenly became an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

These parents don't need vouchers in Arlington. If they aren't already in private schools, they're in the option programs.

Some of the private school parents want vouchers. They don't need them but they want them.

I’d love a voucher. I am too “poor” to afford full freight and too “rich” to qualify for financial aid, but I could definitely do half. Give me that voucher and I’m out.

+1 (and all of my neighbors)

No, not “all of your neighbors”. Most of us don’t want to flush our public schools down the toilet.

Yes, all of my neighbors. We just discussed it! (I didn’t say all of Arlington 😂)

Your NES neighbors?

SA

They already have their kids in private schools?

Some, not all.

What’s your point? There aren’t enough spaces in private for those who’d jump ship? We’d see a lot of options appear if vouchers suddenly became an option.

Not any good options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

These parents don't need vouchers in Arlington. If they aren't already in private schools, they're in the option programs.

Some of the private school parents want vouchers. They don't need them but they want them.

I’d love a voucher. I am too “poor” to afford full freight and too “rich” to qualify for financial aid, but I could definitely do half. Give me that voucher and I’m out.

+1 (and all of my neighbors)

No, not “all of your neighbors”. Most of us don’t want to flush our public schools down the toilet.

Yes, all of my neighbors. We just discussed it! (I didn’t say all of Arlington 😂)

Your NES neighbors?

SA

They already have their kids in private schools?

Some, not all.

What’s your point? There aren’t enough spaces in private for those who’d jump ship? We’d see a lot of options appear if vouchers suddenly became an option.

Not any good options.

Sure, Jan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really? :roll:

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

I doubt those parents are losing sleep over vouchers.

That is who will use to the voucher funds and “defund” the public schools. Just look at red states with vouchers.

I notice not a single anti-voucher poster has agreed the schools could be desegregated in Arlington.

I believe they can be. I also believe they won't be - not because it isn't possible; but because "the community" will push back and make sure it doesn't happen. I not only believe this, I KNOW it. How? Because it's been debated and discussed numerous times in various venues and every boundary process brings out the "neighborhood schools" and "walkability" missiles.

This is O/Tbut studies show low income students don’t benefit from mere exposure to higher income peers. It can actually be counterproductive if steps aren’t taken to provide more holistic support to the kids.

Also, buses aren’t free, and it is only getting harder to find drivers. $23/hr P/T just isn’t cutting it anymore. There’s only so much you can do with school start times to stretch what you have. You could make people drive, but that doesn’t benefit the kids whose parents don’t have cars or the kind of flex in their day to do 9 am drop offs and 350 pm pickups across county.

In short, concerns about neighborhoods and walkability aren’t just racism/classism.

The point was nobody believed it COULD. I believe it CAN and, as stated, know that it WON'T.

I agree with you. And I’ll support vouchers all day every day if APS won’t integrate the schools.

Because…private schools will be more integrated? :roll:

You just want to punish APS and the community.

Punish them for what? Being racist?

For not having extremist views on social reform.

It’s not extremist to integrate the schools. We are a TINY county. Look at the Ashlawn border for the easiest current example. But just keep telling yourself everything has to stay segregated because “reasons.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

These parents don't need vouchers in Arlington. If they aren't already in private schools, they're in the option programs.

Some of the private school parents want vouchers. They don't need them but they want them.

I’d love a voucher. I am too “poor” to afford full freight and too “rich” to qualify for financial aid, but I could definitely do half. Give me that voucher and I’m out.

+1 (and all of my neighbors)

No, not “all of your neighbors”. Most of us don’t want to flush our public schools down the toilet.

Yes, all of my neighbors. We just discussed it! (I didn’t say all of Arlington 😂)

Your NES neighbors?

SA

They already have their kids in private schools?

Some, not all.

What’s your point? There aren’t enough spaces in private for those who’d jump ship? We’d see a lot of options appear if vouchers suddenly became an option.

Not any good options.

Sure, Jan.

Just reality. Look at other states to see how vouchers hurt most people.

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Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

I doubt those parents are losing sleep over vouchers.

That is who will use to the voucher funds and “defund” the public schools. Just look at red states with vouchers.

I notice not a single anti-voucher poster has agreed the schools could be desegregated in Arlington.

I believe they can be. I also believe they won't be - not because it isn't possible; but because "the community" will push back and make sure it doesn't happen. I not only believe this, I KNOW it. How? Because it's been debated and discussed numerous times in various venues and every boundary process brings out the "neighborhood schools" and "walkability" missiles.

This is O/Tbut studies show low income students don’t benefit from mere exposure to higher income peers. It can actually be counterproductive if steps aren’t taken to provide more holistic support to the kids.

Also, buses aren’t free, and it is only getting harder to find drivers. $23/hr P/T just isn’t cutting it anymore. There’s only so much you can do with school start times to stretch what you have. You could make people drive, but that doesn’t benefit the kids whose parents don’t have cars or the kind of flex in their day to do 9 am drop offs and 350 pm pickups across county.

In short, concerns about neighborhoods and walkability aren’t just racism/classism.

The point was nobody believed it COULD. I believe it CAN and, as stated, know that it WON'T.

I agree with you. And I’ll support vouchers all day every day if APS won’t integrate the schools.

Because…private schools will be more integrated?

You just want to punish APS and the community.

Punish them for what? Being racist?

For not having extremist views on social reform.

It’s not extremist to integrate the schools. We are a TINY county. Look at the Ashlawn border for the easiest current example. But just keep telling yourself everything has to stay segregated because “reasons.”

I’m actually ok with opt-out countywide lottery for MS/HS, but not ES. Almost no one is ok busing their K kids across the county.

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Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

I doubt those parents are losing sleep over vouchers.

That is who will use to the voucher funds and “defund” the public schools. Just look at red states with vouchers.

I notice not a single anti-voucher poster has agreed the schools could be desegregated in Arlington.

I believe they can be. I also believe they won't be - not because it isn't possible; but because "the community" will push back and make sure it doesn't happen. I not only believe this, I KNOW it. How? Because it's been debated and discussed numerous times in various venues and every boundary process brings out the "neighborhood schools" and "walkability" missiles.

This is O/Tbut studies show low income students don’t benefit from mere exposure to higher income peers. It can actually be counterproductive if steps aren’t taken to provide more holistic support to the kids.

Also, buses aren’t free, and it is only getting harder to find drivers. $23/hr P/T just isn’t cutting it anymore. There’s only so much you can do with school start times to stretch what you have. You could make people drive, but that doesn’t benefit the kids whose parents don’t have cars or the kind of flex in their day to do 9 am drop offs and 350 pm pickups across county.

In short, concerns about neighborhoods and walkability aren’t just racism/classism.

The point was nobody believed it COULD. I believe it CAN and, as stated, know that it WON'T.

I agree with you. And I’ll support vouchers all day every day if APS won’t integrate the schools.

Haven’t you figured it out yet? It doesn’t matter the teeniest, tiniest bit what you’ll “support all day every day.”

Haven’t you figured out that this is an anonymous message board where we share our viewpoints, and I’m making the point that as bad as many of Youngkin’s policy positions are, APS has also made some pretty bad calls? If people want vouchers, APS only has itself to blame. Youngkin isn’t the enemy here, as bad as you want him to be.