Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

I am glad that you acknowledge that Israeli justice system works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

Well, and let’s be clear, Jews have suffered at the hands of Arabs for centuries. So if we’re going to get caught up in who did what and proportional response, Arabs or Palestinians do not have a leg to stand on.

But fortunately for the Palestinians most people on the world know very little about history, know even less about Jewish history in the Levant region and the Middle East more broadly, and also hate Jews. Nothing Israel says, shows, does - or Jews for that matter - will be enough.

Are you a real person? What is your life story? I’m half
Jewish (Ukrainian). But I’m also half Irish:English, and Austrian . And married to an Indian. And travelled to the middle east in 03-04. I see the Israeli perspective. But I also see there is an alternative world view. Do you? I’m curious about your perspective and if you honestly know history or just biblical stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

That pretty much makes you a POS.

Pretty sure it makes them human. These are human feelings and human nature.

Just because you are on the side of collective punishment and war crimes because you share a religion with israeli terrorists doesnt make everyone else a POS.

People who celebrate killing kids are POS's, regardless of which "side" they're on.

And, FWIW, I'm not Jewish.

Who said anything about killing children? Maybe you misunderstood the sentence: If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas.
I took it to mean that if that happened, they wouldn't just support hamas, they would fight alongside them. That isn't celebrating the killing of any children, it is the vengeful base instinct of a mother losing a child to a terrorist israeli soldier.

But you can’t understand the feelings of an Israeli mother whose kids were killed?

+1

The utter dehumanization of Jews. No wonder 5 million were slaughtered soon easily. This is what it is. Never mind that Israel has been under constant attack since its inception, prompting Israel’s border and security policies.

And you don’t see the dehumanizing of Palestinians?? Are you that blind that you can’t see the comparison?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

The bolded is not true.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officer-who-raped-palestinian-was-not-dismissed-for-earlier-sexual-offenses/

Well, look at you! You found one IDF soldier who raped one Palestinian woman - almost six years ago. Bravo? Now tell us all about the dozens of Israeli women Hamas brutally mutilated, raped and/or murdered. Read this (if you dare) and then get back to us, you utter moron.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

You didn’t read the article did you?


“The officer was found to have raped one Palestinian woman, who had come to him to receive a permit to work in Israel, on at least two occasions. He also repeatedly sexually harassed her, trying to get her to have sex with other people as well.

The military court, based in part on audio recordings that the woman made, determined that in the first instance of rape, the officer had forced her to have sex with him and then made her clean up the floor afterwards, before giving her the work permit.

A few days later, he called her and told her that he had rescinded the permit and again forced her to have sex with him in order to get it back.

In both cases, the Palestinian woman refused his demands for sex, and in both cases, he threatened to take away her work permit if she told anyone about the rape.

He was also convicted of receiving a bribe by forcing another Palestinian woman to have sex with him multiple times in exchange for a work permit. Despite the clear power imbalance, this was not deemed to have been rape as the victim did not explicitly refuse his demands for sex.”

So tell me, you believe one Israeli soldier raping and coercing at least two Palestinian women is fine. What is the number at which rape becomes unacceptable to you?

What is the number of civilian casualties before indiscriminate bombing becomes unacceptable to you?

Because it seems from your attitude the answer is — the limit does not exist so long as the victims are Palestinians. So just say so. Don’t play games that you suddenly care about rape or the abuse of children.

What the soldier did was horrible. But! he was caught and brought to justice. The rapes of Israeli women by Hamas animals was celebrated in Gaza. None of the terrorists would have bet face justice unless Israel brought it upon them. In fact, WB pays the terrorists salary for life and to their families when the terrorist
are “martyred”

In your last three posts you’ve gone from “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians” to “it only ever happened once” to “it’s fine when the Israelis do because this particular individual went to jail”. Do you think his is the only such case?

Rape isn’t justified. Period. It’s barbaric when Hamas does it and it’s barbaric when the Israelis do it. The difference is that one is a group globally recognized as terrorists and one is a country absolutely insisting they care about civilians and then behaving counter to those statements.

DP. You are talking to several different posters. And it is absolutely disgusting that you refuse to acknowledge what horrific atrocities Hamas perpetrated on Jewish women and girls. It wasn't JUST rape, though that's bad enough. Here's just a sampling. Now please shut up with your ONE example of an IDF soldier coercing a woman into having sex with him in return for a work permit. As if there's ANY comparison at all.

In the video, the woman known as Witness S mimes the attackers picking up and passing the victim from one to another.

"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back."

She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault.

"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it."

The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues.

"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates."

One man we spoke to from the festival site said he heard the "noises and screams of people being murdered, raped, decapitated".

To our question about how he could be sure - without seeing it - that the screams he heard indicated sexual assault rather than other kinds of violence, he said he believed while listening at the time that it could only have been rape.

A statement he made through a support organisation describes it as "inhuman".

"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies," his statement says. "I desperately wanted to help, but there was nothing I could do."

Multiple photographs from the sites after the attack show the bodies of women naked from the waist down, or with their underwear ripped to one side, legs splayed, with signs of trauma to their genitals and legs.

"It really feels like Hamas learned how to weaponise women's bodies from ISIS [the Islamic State group] in Iraq, from cases in Bosnia," said Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, a legal expert at the Davis Institute of International Relations at Hebrew University.

"It brings me chills just to know the details that they knew about what to do to women: cut their organs, mutilate their genitals, rape. It's horrifying to know this."

"I spoke with at least three girls who are now hospitalised for a very hard psychiatric situation because of the rapes they watched," Minister May Golan told me. "They pretended to be dead and they watched it, and heard everything. And they can't deal with it."

Israel's police chief Yaacov Shabtai said that many survivors of the attacks were finding it difficult to talk and that he thought some of them would never testify about what they saw or experienced.

"Eighteen young men and women have been hospitalised in mental health hospitals because they could no longer function," he said.

Others are reportedly suicidal. One of those working with the teams around survivors told the BBC that some had already killed themselves.

Much of the evidence has come from the volunteer body-collectors deployed after the attacks, and those who handled the bodies once they arrived at the Shura army base for identification.

One of the body-collectors volunteering with the religious organisation Zaka described to me signs of torture and mutilation which included, he said, a pregnant woman whose womb had been ripped open before she was killed, and her foetus stabbed while it was inside her.

"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says.

At the festival site, he says small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each."

Hundreds of bodies were collected from the attack sites by volunteers.

"For the first five days, we still had terrorists on the ground in Israel," May Golan said. "And there were hundreds, hundreds of bodies everywhere. They were burned, they were without organs, they were butchered completely."

"This was a mass casualty event," police spokesman Dean Elsdunne told journalists at a briefing.

Teams here told us they'd seen clear evidence of rape and sexual violence on the bodies coming in, including broken pelvises from sustained violent abuse.

"We see women of all ages," one of the reservists on the forensic team, Captain Maayan, told the BBC. "We see rape victims. We see women who have been through violation. We have pathologists and we see the bruises, we learn about the cuts and tears, and we know they have been sexually abused."

I ask her what proportion of the bodies she's handled show signs of this.

"Abundant," she said. "Abundant amount of women and girls of all ages."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

The poster I responded to if you read back categorically stated that “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinian women”. This is simply untrue.

Oh, right - you found the one example of an Israeli who had raped a Palestinian. You are insufferable. How anyone could read the above account of what Hamas did to Israeli women and girls, and then have the gall to insist those atrocities are IN ANY WAY comparable to your one example, is just repulsive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

The bolded is not true.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officer-who-raped-palestinian-was-not-dismissed-for-earlier-sexual-offenses/

Well, look at you! You found one IDF soldier who raped one Palestinian woman - almost six years ago. Bravo? Now tell us all about the dozens of Israeli women Hamas brutally mutilated, raped and/or murdered. Read this (if you dare) and then get back to us, you utter moron.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

You didn’t read the article did you?


“The officer was found to have raped one Palestinian woman, who had come to him to receive a permit to work in Israel, on at least two occasions. He also repeatedly sexually harassed her, trying to get her to have sex with other people as well.

The military court, based in part on audio recordings that the woman made, determined that in the first instance of rape, the officer had forced her to have sex with him and then made her clean up the floor afterwards, before giving her the work permit.

A few days later, he called her and told her that he had rescinded the permit and again forced her to have sex with him in order to get it back.

In both cases, the Palestinian woman refused his demands for sex, and in both cases, he threatened to take away her work permit if she told anyone about the rape.

He was also convicted of receiving a bribe by forcing another Palestinian woman to have sex with him multiple times in exchange for a work permit. Despite the clear power imbalance, this was not deemed to have been rape as the victim did not explicitly refuse his demands for sex.”

So tell me, you believe one Israeli soldier raping and coercing at least two Palestinian women is fine. What is the number at which rape becomes unacceptable to you?

What is the number of civilian casualties before indiscriminate bombing becomes unacceptable to you?

Because it seems from your attitude the answer is — the limit does not exist so long as the victims are Palestinians. So just say so. Don’t play games that you suddenly care about rape or the abuse of children.

What the soldier did was horrible. But! he was caught and brought to justice. The rapes of Israeli women by Hamas animals was celebrated in Gaza. None of the terrorists would have bet face justice unless Israel brought it upon them. In fact, WB pays the terrorists salary for life and to their families when the terrorist
are “martyred”

In your last three posts you’ve gone from “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians” to “it only ever happened once” to “it’s fine when the Israelis do because this particular individual went to jail”. Do you think his is the only such case?

Rape isn’t justified. Period. It’s barbaric when Hamas does it and it’s barbaric when the Israelis do it. The difference is that one is a group globally recognized as terrorists and one is a country absolutely insisting they care about civilians and then behaving counter to those statements.

DP. You are talking to several different posters. And it is absolutely disgusting that you refuse to acknowledge what horrific atrocities Hamas perpetrated on Jewish women and girls. It wasn't JUST rape, though that's bad enough. Here's just a sampling. Now please shut up with your ONE example of an IDF soldier coercing a woman into having sex with him in return for a work permit. As if there's ANY comparison at all.

In the video, the woman known as Witness S mimes the attackers picking up and passing the victim from one to another.

"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back."

She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault.

"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it."

The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues.

"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates."

One man we spoke to from the festival site said he heard the "noises and screams of people being murdered, raped, decapitated".

To our question about how he could be sure - without seeing it - that the screams he heard indicated sexual assault rather than other kinds of violence, he said he believed while listening at the time that it could only have been rape.

A statement he made through a support organisation describes it as "inhuman".

"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies," his statement says. "I desperately wanted to help, but there was nothing I could do."

Multiple photographs from the sites after the attack show the bodies of women naked from the waist down, or with their underwear ripped to one side, legs splayed, with signs of trauma to their genitals and legs.

"It really feels like Hamas learned how to weaponise women's bodies from ISIS [the Islamic State group] in Iraq, from cases in Bosnia," said Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, a legal expert at the Davis Institute of International Relations at Hebrew University.

"It brings me chills just to know the details that they knew about what to do to women: cut their organs, mutilate their genitals, rape. It's horrifying to know this."

"I spoke with at least three girls who are now hospitalised for a very hard psychiatric situation because of the rapes they watched," Minister May Golan told me. "They pretended to be dead and they watched it, and heard everything. And they can't deal with it."

Israel's police chief Yaacov Shabtai said that many survivors of the attacks were finding it difficult to talk and that he thought some of them would never testify about what they saw or experienced.

"Eighteen young men and women have been hospitalised in mental health hospitals because they could no longer function," he said.

Others are reportedly suicidal. One of those working with the teams around survivors told the BBC that some had already killed themselves.

Much of the evidence has come from the volunteer body-collectors deployed after the attacks, and those who handled the bodies once they arrived at the Shura army base for identification.

One of the body-collectors volunteering with the religious organisation Zaka described to me signs of torture and mutilation which included, he said, a pregnant woman whose womb had been ripped open before she was killed, and her foetus stabbed while it was inside her.

"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says.

At the festival site, he says small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each."

Hundreds of bodies were collected from the attack sites by volunteers.

"For the first five days, we still had terrorists on the ground in Israel," May Golan said. "And there were hundreds, hundreds of bodies everywhere. They were burned, they were without organs, they were butchered completely."

"This was a mass casualty event," police spokesman Dean Elsdunne told journalists at a briefing.

Teams here told us they'd seen clear evidence of rape and sexual violence on the bodies coming in, including broken pelvises from sustained violent abuse.

"We see women of all ages," one of the reservists on the forensic team, Captain Maayan, told the BBC. "We see rape victims. We see women who have been through violation. We have pathologists and we see the bruises, we learn about the cuts and tears, and we know they have been sexually abused."

I ask her what proportion of the bodies she's handled show signs of this.

"Abundant," she said. "Abundant amount of women and girls of all ages."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

The poster I responded to if you read back categorically stated that “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinian women”. This is simply untrue.

You are equating what this IDF soldier did to what Hamas did. They are not equivalent. I don’t understand why you don’t see that? Are there men in Israel who are rapists? Of course there are. There are taoist’s everywhere. Hello, US Coastguard? What Hamas did was an act of war, using rape as an act of war.

I am not “equating” anything. I am saying that the statement “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinian women” is untrue.

Making broad false statements about one side of a conflict is foolish. It doesn’t make Hamas any “better” to admit Israeli have committed offenses against Palestinians.

DP. It is abundantly clear that we are dealing with an idiot. Not going to waste my energy on someone like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

WTF? You're still equating the one IDF soldier coercing a Palestinian woman into sex in return for a work permit, to the horrific, unspeakable atrocities committed on Oct. 7 by Hamas? Do you even hear yourself? Please go away. You're sickening.

[Anonymous]

Funny how the #MeToo crowd has been utterly silent since Oct. 7. Why could this be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

Just a reminder this is the statement categorically denying Israelis have tortured and raped Palestinian women which is precisely what the Israeli justice system says has taken place.

WTF? You're still equating the one IDF soldier coercing a Palestinian woman into sex in return for a work permit, to the horrific, unspeakable atrocities committed on Oct. 7 by Hamas? Do you even hear yourself? Please go away. You're sickening.

If you go to Gaza war part 1 there was another idiot who found an article from the early 2000s about 6 Palestinian prisoners who were kicked in the balls. He was equating their treatment to the desecration of Shani Louk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

The bolded is not true.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officer-who-raped-palestinian-was-not-dismissed-for-earlier-sexual-offenses/

Well, look at you! You found one IDF soldier who raped one Palestinian woman - almost six years ago. Bravo? Now tell us all about the dozens of Israeli women Hamas brutally mutilated, raped and/or murdered. Read this (if you dare) and then get back to us, you utter moron.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

You didn’t read the article did you?


“The officer was found to have raped one Palestinian woman, who had come to him to receive a permit to work in Israel, on at least two occasions. He also repeatedly sexually harassed her, trying to get her to have sex with other people as well.

The military court, based in part on audio recordings that the woman made, determined that in the first instance of rape, the officer had forced her to have sex with him and then made her clean up the floor afterwards, before giving her the work permit.

A few days later, he called her and told her that he had rescinded the permit and again forced her to have sex with him in order to get it back.

In both cases, the Palestinian woman refused his demands for sex, and in both cases, he threatened to take away her work permit if she told anyone about the rape.

He was also convicted of receiving a bribe by forcing another Palestinian woman to have sex with him multiple times in exchange for a work permit. Despite the clear power imbalance, this was not deemed to have been rape as the victim did not explicitly refuse his demands for sex.”

So tell me, you believe one Israeli soldier raping and coercing at least two Palestinian women is fine. What is the number at which rape becomes unacceptable to you?

What is the number of civilian casualties before indiscriminate bombing becomes unacceptable to you?

Because it seems from your attitude the answer is — the limit does not exist so long as the victims are Palestinians. So just say so. Don’t play games that you suddenly care about rape or the abuse of children.

What the soldier did was horrible. But! he was caught and brought to justice. The rapes of Israeli women by Hamas animals was celebrated in Gaza. None of the terrorists would have bet face justice unless Israel brought it upon them. In fact, WB pays the terrorists salary for life and to their families when the terrorist
are “martyred”

In your last three posts you’ve gone from “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians” to “it only ever happened once” to “it’s fine when the Israelis do because this particular individual went to jail”. Do you think his is the only such case?

Rape isn’t justified. Period. It’s barbaric when Hamas does it and it’s barbaric when the Israelis do it. The difference is that one is a group globally recognized as terrorists and one is a country absolutely insisting they care about civilians and then behaving counter to those statements.

DP. You are talking to several different posters. And it is absolutely disgusting that you refuse to acknowledge what horrific atrocities Hamas perpetrated on Jewish women and girls. It wasn't JUST rape, though that's bad enough. Here's just a sampling. Now please shut up with your ONE example of an IDF soldier coercing a woman into having sex with him in return for a work permit. As if there's ANY comparison at all.

In the video, the woman known as Witness S mimes the attackers picking up and passing the victim from one to another.

"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back."

She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault.

"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it."

The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues.

"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates."

One man we spoke to from the festival site said he heard the "noises and screams of people being murdered, raped, decapitated".

To our question about how he could be sure - without seeing it - that the screams he heard indicated sexual assault rather than other kinds of violence, he said he believed while listening at the time that it could only have been rape.

A statement he made through a support organisation describes it as "inhuman".

"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies," his statement says. "I desperately wanted to help, but there was nothing I could do."

Multiple photographs from the sites after the attack show the bodies of women naked from the waist down, or with their underwear ripped to one side, legs splayed, with signs of trauma to their genitals and legs.

"It really feels like Hamas learned how to weaponise women's bodies from ISIS [the Islamic State group] in Iraq, from cases in Bosnia," said Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, a legal expert at the Davis Institute of International Relations at Hebrew University.

"It brings me chills just to know the details that they knew about what to do to women: cut their organs, mutilate their genitals, rape. It's horrifying to know this."

"I spoke with at least three girls who are now hospitalised for a very hard psychiatric situation because of the rapes they watched," Minister May Golan told me. "They pretended to be dead and they watched it, and heard everything. And they can't deal with it."

Israel's police chief Yaacov Shabtai said that many survivors of the attacks were finding it difficult to talk and that he thought some of them would never testify about what they saw or experienced.

"Eighteen young men and women have been hospitalised in mental health hospitals because they could no longer function," he said.

Others are reportedly suicidal. One of those working with the teams around survivors told the BBC that some had already killed themselves.

Much of the evidence has come from the volunteer body-collectors deployed after the attacks, and those who handled the bodies once they arrived at the Shura army base for identification.

One of the body-collectors volunteering with the religious organisation Zaka described to me signs of torture and mutilation which included, he said, a pregnant woman whose womb had been ripped open before she was killed, and her foetus stabbed while it was inside her.

"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says.

At the festival site, he says small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each."

Hundreds of bodies were collected from the attack sites by volunteers.

"For the first five days, we still had terrorists on the ground in Israel," May Golan said. "And there were hundreds, hundreds of bodies everywhere. They were burned, they were without organs, they were butchered completely."

"This was a mass casualty event," police spokesman Dean Elsdunne told journalists at a briefing.

Teams here told us they'd seen clear evidence of rape and sexual violence on the bodies coming in, including broken pelvises from sustained violent abuse.

"We see women of all ages," one of the reservists on the forensic team, Captain Maayan, told the BBC. "We see rape victims. We see women who have been through violation. We have pathologists and we see the bruises, we learn about the cuts and tears, and we know they have been sexually abused."

I ask her what proportion of the bodies she's handled show signs of this.

"Abundant," she said. "Abundant amount of women and girls of all ages."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

The poster I responded to if you read back categorically stated that “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinian women”. This is simply untrue.

Oh, right - you found the one example of an Israeli who had raped a Palestinian. You are insufferable. How anyone could read the above account of what Hamas did to Israeli women and girls, and then have the gall to insist those atrocities are IN ANY WAY comparable to your one example, is just repulsive.

No one said “comparable”. I said— and will say again— making false and provably false statements about how one side behaves is foolish. You don’t make Hamas any worse by lying about Israel.

And in that vein do you really want to keep saying “the ONE”. Are you really that confident there won’t be or haven’t been more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

The bolded is not true.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officer-who-raped-palestinian-was-not-dismissed-for-earlier-sexual-offenses/

Well, look at you! You found one IDF soldier who raped one Palestinian woman - almost six years ago. Bravo? Now tell us all about the dozens of Israeli women Hamas brutally mutilated, raped and/or murdered. Read this (if you dare) and then get back to us, you utter moron.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

You didn’t read the article did you?


“The officer was found to have raped one Palestinian woman, who had come to him to receive a permit to work in Israel, on at least two occasions. He also repeatedly sexually harassed her, trying to get her to have sex with other people as well.

The military court, based in part on audio recordings that the woman made, determined that in the first instance of rape, the officer had forced her to have sex with him and then made her clean up the floor afterwards, before giving her the work permit.

A few days later, he called her and told her that he had rescinded the permit and again forced her to have sex with him in order to get it back.

In both cases, the Palestinian woman refused his demands for sex, and in both cases, he threatened to take away her work permit if she told anyone about the rape.

He was also convicted of receiving a bribe by forcing another Palestinian woman to have sex with him multiple times in exchange for a work permit. Despite the clear power imbalance, this was not deemed to have been rape as the victim did not explicitly refuse his demands for sex.”

So tell me, you believe one Israeli soldier raping and coercing at least two Palestinian women is fine. What is the number at which rape becomes unacceptable to you?

What is the number of civilian casualties before indiscriminate bombing becomes unacceptable to you?

Because it seems from your attitude the answer is — the limit does not exist so long as the victims are Palestinians. So just say so. Don’t play games that you suddenly care about rape or the abuse of children.

What the soldier did was horrible. But! he was caught and brought to justice. The rapes of Israeli women by Hamas animals was celebrated in Gaza. None of the terrorists would have bet face justice unless Israel brought it upon them. In fact, WB pays the terrorists salary for life and to their families when the terrorist
are “martyred”

In your last three posts you’ve gone from “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians” to “it only ever happened once” to “it’s fine when the Israelis do because this particular individual went to jail”. Do you think his is the only such case?

Rape isn’t justified. Period. It’s barbaric when Hamas does it and it’s barbaric when the Israelis do it. The difference is that one is a group globally recognized as terrorists and one is a country absolutely insisting they care about civilians and then behaving counter to those statements.

DP. You are talking to several different posters. And it is absolutely disgusting that you refuse to acknowledge what horrific atrocities Hamas perpetrated on Jewish women and girls. It wasn't JUST rape, though that's bad enough. Here's just a sampling. Now please shut up with your ONE example of an IDF soldier coercing a woman into having sex with him in return for a work permit. As if there's ANY comparison at all.

In the video, the woman known as Witness S mimes the attackers picking up and passing the victim from one to another.

"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back."

She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault.

"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it."

The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues.

"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates."

One man we spoke to from the festival site said he heard the "noises and screams of people being murdered, raped, decapitated".

To our question about how he could be sure - without seeing it - that the screams he heard indicated sexual assault rather than other kinds of violence, he said he believed while listening at the time that it could only have been rape.

A statement he made through a support organisation describes it as "inhuman".

"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies," his statement says. "I desperately wanted to help, but there was nothing I could do."

Multiple photographs from the sites after the attack show the bodies of women naked from the waist down, or with their underwear ripped to one side, legs splayed, with signs of trauma to their genitals and legs.

"It really feels like Hamas learned how to weaponise women's bodies from ISIS [the Islamic State group] in Iraq, from cases in Bosnia," said Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, a legal expert at the Davis Institute of International Relations at Hebrew University.

"It brings me chills just to know the details that they knew about what to do to women: cut their organs, mutilate their genitals, rape. It's horrifying to know this."

"I spoke with at least three girls who are now hospitalised for a very hard psychiatric situation because of the rapes they watched," Minister May Golan told me. "They pretended to be dead and they watched it, and heard everything. And they can't deal with it."

Israel's police chief Yaacov Shabtai said that many survivors of the attacks were finding it difficult to talk and that he thought some of them would never testify about what they saw or experienced.

"Eighteen young men and women have been hospitalised in mental health hospitals because they could no longer function," he said.

Others are reportedly suicidal. One of those working with the teams around survivors told the BBC that some had already killed themselves.

Much of the evidence has come from the volunteer body-collectors deployed after the attacks, and those who handled the bodies once they arrived at the Shura army base for identification.

One of the body-collectors volunteering with the religious organisation Zaka described to me signs of torture and mutilation which included, he said, a pregnant woman whose womb had been ripped open before she was killed, and her foetus stabbed while it was inside her.

"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says.

At the festival site, he says small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each."

Hundreds of bodies were collected from the attack sites by volunteers.

"For the first five days, we still had terrorists on the ground in Israel," May Golan said. "And there were hundreds, hundreds of bodies everywhere. They were burned, they were without organs, they were butchered completely."

"This was a mass casualty event," police spokesman Dean Elsdunne told journalists at a briefing.

Teams here told us they'd seen clear evidence of rape and sexual violence on the bodies coming in, including broken pelvises from sustained violent abuse.

"We see women of all ages," one of the reservists on the forensic team, Captain Maayan, told the BBC. "We see rape victims. We see women who have been through violation. We have pathologists and we see the bruises, we learn about the cuts and tears, and we know they have been sexually abused."

I ask her what proportion of the bodies she's handled show signs of this.

"Abundant," she said. "Abundant amount of women and girls of all ages."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

The poster I responded to if you read back categorically stated that “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinian women”. This is simply untrue.

Oh, right - you found the one example of an Israeli who had raped a Palestinian. You are insufferable. How anyone could read the above account of what Hamas did to Israeli women and girls, and then have the gall to insist those atrocities are IN ANY WAY comparable to your one example, is just repulsive.

No one said “comparable”. I said— and will say again— making false and provably false statements about how one side behaves is foolish. You don’t make Hamas any worse by lying about Israel.

And in that vein do you really want to keep saying “the ONE”. Are you really that confident there won’t be or haven’t been more?

Your use of Israel here is what’s giving you away. The actions of one bad soldier (or, several) does not represent the State of Israel. There is no state mandated directive from the government that tells Israeli men to rape Palestinian women. No one is lying about Israel. Hamas planned those rapes, they were carrying instructions that included rapes. You are trying really hard to equate the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny how the #MeToo crowd has been utterly silent since Oct. 7. Why could this be?

Yes, it's very interesting. Hamas was cutting the breasts off of women. They were dismembering them. They were shooting them in the head while they were raping them.

Clearly, not all women matter.

I made the terrible mistake of looking at some video that Hamas recorded of their atrocities. Like chopping people's heads off with shovels. I have lost every smidgen of respect for the progressives that excuse and justify this.

But do yourself a favor and never look for those videos. They were on twitter and reddit for a day or two. I think they're gone from those platforms now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:did anyone see the new survey that shows 72% of palestinians support Hamas's actions on Oct 7? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

If the IDF hurt one of my children, I regret to say that I'd probably do more than support Hamas. After the IDF has killed and mutilated, displaced, and starved so many Palestinians, I'm surprised that number is as low as 72%.

Yes. This. Israel’s outsized response is only servicing to make Jews less safe worldwide. If you think IDF’s response has been justified based on 1200 deaths and 250 kidnapped victims, just imagine what the Palestinians want to do to Israelis for 20x that amount of suffering.

Wow. What both of you numbskulls conveniently ignore is the FACT that Hamas brutally mutilated, tortured, raped, and murdered, children and other innocent civilians FIRST. Why is it so easy for you to totally twist this narrative? Do you know how insane you sound?
DP

It is a mistake to try to assign a “first” in this conflict. You are correct that Hamas carried out a brutal attack on October 7th, but they didn’t spring into existence on October 6th.

https://prospect.org/world/2023-10-20-west-bank-settlements-conflict-gaza/

A very interesting article written by an Israeli author.

That's behind a firewall. At any rate, regardless of Jewish settlements, etc. - Israelis have NOT tortured and raped Palestinian women and children. Hamas are monsters. I hope they're eradicated from the face of the earth.

The bolded is not true.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officer-who-raped-palestinian-was-not-dismissed-for-earlier-sexual-offenses/

Well, look at you! You found one IDF soldier who raped one Palestinian woman - almost six years ago. Bravo? Now tell us all about the dozens of Israeli women Hamas brutally mutilated, raped and/or murdered. Read this (if you dare) and then get back to us, you utter moron.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

You didn’t read the article did you?


“The officer was found to have raped one Palestinian woman, who had come to him to receive a permit to work in Israel, on at least two occasions. He also repeatedly sexually harassed her, trying to get her to have sex with other people as well.

The military court, based in part on audio recordings that the woman made, determined that in the first instance of rape, the officer had forced her to have sex with him and then made her clean up the floor afterwards, before giving her the work permit.

A few days later, he called her and told her that he had rescinded the permit and again forced her to have sex with him in order to get it back.

In both cases, the Palestinian woman refused his demands for sex, and in both cases, he threatened to take away her work permit if she told anyone about the rape.

He was also convicted of receiving a bribe by forcing another Palestinian woman to have sex with him multiple times in exchange for a work permit. Despite the clear power imbalance, this was not deemed to have been rape as the victim did not explicitly refuse his demands for sex.”

So tell me, you believe one Israeli soldier raping and coercing at least two Palestinian women is fine. What is the number at which rape becomes unacceptable to you?

What is the number of civilian casualties before indiscriminate bombing becomes unacceptable to you?

Because it seems from your attitude the answer is — the limit does not exist so long as the victims are Palestinians. So just say so. Don’t play games that you suddenly care about rape or the abuse of children.

What the soldier did was horrible. But! he was caught and brought to justice. The rapes of Israeli women by Hamas animals was celebrated in Gaza. None of the terrorists would have bet face justice unless Israel brought it upon them. In fact, WB pays the terrorists salary for life and to their families when the terrorist
are “martyred”

In your last three posts you’ve gone from “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinians” to “it only ever happened once” to “it’s fine when the Israelis do because this particular individual went to jail”. Do you think his is the only such case?

Rape isn’t justified. Period. It’s barbaric when Hamas does it and it’s barbaric when the Israelis do it. The difference is that one is a group globally recognized as terrorists and one is a country absolutely insisting they care about civilians and then behaving counter to those statements.

DP. You are talking to several different posters. And it is absolutely disgusting that you refuse to acknowledge what horrific atrocities Hamas perpetrated on Jewish women and girls. It wasn't JUST rape, though that's bad enough. Here's just a sampling. Now please shut up with your ONE example of an IDF soldier coercing a woman into having sex with him in return for a work permit. As if there's ANY comparison at all.

In the video, the woman known as Witness S mimes the attackers picking up and passing the victim from one to another.

"She was alive," the witness says. "She was bleeding from her back."

She goes on to detail how the men cut off parts of the victim's body during the assault.

"They sliced her breast and threw it on the street," she says. "They were playing with it."

The victim was passed to another man in uniform, she continues.

"He penetrated her, and shot her in the head before he finished. He didn't even pick up his pants; he shoots and ejaculates."

One man we spoke to from the festival site said he heard the "noises and screams of people being murdered, raped, decapitated".

To our question about how he could be sure - without seeing it - that the screams he heard indicated sexual assault rather than other kinds of violence, he said he believed while listening at the time that it could only have been rape.

A statement he made through a support organisation describes it as "inhuman".

"Some women were raped before they were dead, some raped while injured, and some were already dead when the terrorists raped their lifeless bodies," his statement says. "I desperately wanted to help, but there was nothing I could do."

Multiple photographs from the sites after the attack show the bodies of women naked from the waist down, or with their underwear ripped to one side, legs splayed, with signs of trauma to their genitals and legs.

"It really feels like Hamas learned how to weaponise women's bodies from ISIS [the Islamic State group] in Iraq, from cases in Bosnia," said Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, a legal expert at the Davis Institute of International Relations at Hebrew University.

"It brings me chills just to know the details that they knew about what to do to women: cut their organs, mutilate their genitals, rape. It's horrifying to know this."

"I spoke with at least three girls who are now hospitalised for a very hard psychiatric situation because of the rapes they watched," Minister May Golan told me. "They pretended to be dead and they watched it, and heard everything. And they can't deal with it."

Israel's police chief Yaacov Shabtai said that many survivors of the attacks were finding it difficult to talk and that he thought some of them would never testify about what they saw or experienced.

"Eighteen young men and women have been hospitalised in mental health hospitals because they could no longer function," he said.

Others are reportedly suicidal. One of those working with the teams around survivors told the BBC that some had already killed themselves.

Much of the evidence has come from the volunteer body-collectors deployed after the attacks, and those who handled the bodies once they arrived at the Shura army base for identification.

One of the body-collectors volunteering with the religious organisation Zaka described to me signs of torture and mutilation which included, he said, a pregnant woman whose womb had been ripped open before she was killed, and her foetus stabbed while it was inside her.

"One was sexually terrorised with a knife stuck in her vagina and all her internal organs removed," his statement says.

At the festival site, he says small shelters were "filled with piles of women. Their clothing was torn on the upper part, but their bottoms were completely naked. Piles and piles of women. […] When you took a closer look at their heads, you saw a single shot straight to the brain of each."

Hundreds of bodies were collected from the attack sites by volunteers.

"For the first five days, we still had terrorists on the ground in Israel," May Golan said. "And there were hundreds, hundreds of bodies everywhere. They were burned, they were without organs, they were butchered completely."

"This was a mass casualty event," police spokesman Dean Elsdunne told journalists at a briefing.

Teams here told us they'd seen clear evidence of rape and sexual violence on the bodies coming in, including broken pelvises from sustained violent abuse.

"We see women of all ages," one of the reservists on the forensic team, Captain Maayan, told the BBC. "We see rape victims. We see women who have been through violation. We have pathologists and we see the bruises, we learn about the cuts and tears, and we know they have been sexually abused."

I ask her what proportion of the bodies she's handled show signs of this.

"Abundant," she said. "Abundant amount of women and girls of all ages."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

The poster I responded to if you read back categorically stated that “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinian women”. This is simply untrue.

Oh, right - you found the one example of an Israeli who had raped a Palestinian. You are insufferable. How anyone could read the above account of what Hamas did to Israeli women and girls, and then have the gall to insist those atrocities are IN ANY WAY comparable to your one example, is just repulsive.

No one said “comparable”. I said— and will say again— making false and provably false statements about how one side behaves is foolish. You don’t make Hamas any worse by lying about Israel.

And in that vein do you really want to keep saying “the ONE”. Are you really that confident there won’t be or haven’t been more?

Your use of Israel here is what’s giving you away. The actions of one bad soldier (or, several) does not represent the State of Israel. There is no state mandated directive from the government that tells Israeli men to rape Palestinian women. No one is lying about Israel. Hamas planned those rapes, they were carrying instructions that included rapes. You are trying really hard to equate the two.

The poster who said said “Israelis do NOT rape Palestinian women”. Is the one who is incorrect.

It’s fair to say, as you do above, that there is no state directive from Israel to rape Palestinian women. That is not what the poster claimed.

And once again. I am not “equating” the two. Brutality against Palestinian women doesn’t make brutality against Israeli women less evil. Brutality against Israeli women doesn’t make the indiscriminate bombing of children acceptable. Participating in a cycle of brutality doesn’t leave anyone as “good”’in the end no matter how much everyone says the other side started it.

It’s entirely possible to look at this situation and see no good guys, only victims.

[Anonymous]

Religion and nationalism are the root of all evil. Hamas was wrong. Israeli government response, while also wrong will end up being effective for them. Just some truth. The only way to peace is annihilation or subservience of your foe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Religion and nationalism are the root of all evil. Hamas was wrong. Israeli government response, while also wrong will end up being effective for them. Just some truth. The only way to peace is annihilation or subservience of your foe.

This is the exact wrong way to peace. Imagine if after 9/12, America started killing and bombing every Muslim American . Do you think we’d be safer today? Of course not. When you piss on your neighbors lawn and set their kids on fire literally , you can’t go to sleep peacefully and think the future will be bright and that goes for Palestinians as well. As long as Hamas is in power there won’t be peace for Palestinians and as long as Israel reacts with excessive force to children, there won’t be peace for them either . There will always be vengeance and hatred and fear of the other side in that conflict

[Anonymous]

9/11*