APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

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We live in a small very old house in 22207 while others with same income live in Green Valley in a McMansion new build.

Then they call us the privileged ones.

You are free to sell your small old house in 22207 and buy a new mansion in 22204 any time you'd like. Oh. What's that you say? You don't want the schools here? They're not good? Or not good enough? Not as good as up there? The education you're providing your kids is far superior and you were able to access that because you CHOSE to buy a small very old house in 22207 surrounded by school communities with great wealth and resources?

So what's your definition of "privileged," exactly? House size?

I'm good with our choice, thanks, I'm not good with rich white S Arlingtonians who live in McMansions calling me privileged with zero self awareness. Also not good when you use the race and social justice card but it's plainly only to benefit your well off privileged white children.

The amount of wealth in NA vs SA is incredibly obvious, even if you don’t want to admit it. How many CAFs have been built in your neck of the woods?

There’s a lot of privilege in NA, regardless of how large your home is. (And many downsides to living in SA, even if you can afford a larger home.)

I’m happy to let the NA schools become just as overcrowded as those in SA.

Time to let it go, SA poster. Living anywhere in Arlington has its advantages and disadvantages. There are many CAFs along the Rosslyn/Ballston corridor, and more in Westover than Arlington Ridge. Vibrancy and walkability comes at a cost. Buying for the schools also comes at a cost.

You are not less privileged, you are not more virtuous, simply because you made different choices with the same income. More tedious, perhaps. Less self-aware, definitely. But not better. It’s time to grapple with that and let it go.

Hear hear. "I’m happy to let the NA schools become just as overcrowded as those in SA." Thank you for saying your actual motivations out loud--this isn't about the kids, it's about burning it all down for the chaos?

I like how there are many SA posters arguing with one deranged NES mom.

From reading this thread, I think it may actually be the opposite.

I can vouch for the fact there is more than one SA poster. But I do think we are far outnumbered by NESers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

SA doesn’t want to give up Zumba at the Fairlington community center, or their “green space” at MPSA, which are the most realistic possibilities for relieving their overcrowding. That’s fine, but those are choices they are making. There isn’t some huge cache of land open for sale in SA. The idea that everyone else needs to suffer equally is just ludicrous. Overcrowding is bad, full stop.

NP. Are you that ignorantly or are you just trying to be mean? SA doesn't get to decide what happens at Fairlington COMMUNITY Center, the County Board does. The. Board. Won't. Give. Back. Old. Schools. Everyone knows this. It's a dead issue. Anyone still pining or pushing it as a solution is either wackadoo or purposefully tying to deflect.
Looking at you right comment insinuating frivolous "green space" at Career Center, now I realize you're just a NA jerk. You really think the solution is three schools on that lot, with no field? Just so your under enrolled, Mayberry-walkable neighborhood school can stay that way? Congrats, you just earned another opponent, now I'm perfectly happy for your NA community to share the effects long felt in SA. Thanks for helping me to decide against you.

I guess APS staff are wackadoodles because they listed it as a viable alternative to Nottingham for swing space. Try reading the report before you come on here and blather on like an uneducated fool.

I did read the report. And I'm on a related a task force. And I was involved in last CIP. You do any of that, or did you just parachute in because your precious neighborhood school finally can't deflect the reality the rest of county has been feeling? Congrats on making another opponent - I'm going to go email APS Engage my support for this as somebody with all my experiences.

APS staff has found the thread... welcome, pre-CIP author!

I really hope you believe that. Because you're so wrong. It just occurred to me that many NA posters here are out of their league - you haven't been involved at the system level. You were not on task forces, working groups, FACs, BACs, CIPs, etc. maybe PTAs, but that is within your little bubble and it won't help you now in trying to navigate the bigger system. You half-joke anyone who supports this must be APS. Wow, you don't even know what you don't know.

All of this participation, and yet you still missed that Fairlington CC was listed as a viable option for swing space. I don’t really care that you’re not an “ally” - you seem prone to hysterics. I’m sure that makes you a very productive contributor to the disaster APS is becoming.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

SA doesn’t want to give up Zumba at the Fairlington community center, or their “green space” at MPSA, which are the most realistic possibilities for relieving their overcrowding. That’s fine, but those are choices they are making. There isn’t some huge cache of land open for sale in SA. The idea that everyone else needs to suffer equally is just ludicrous. Overcrowding is bad, full stop.

NP. Are you that ignorantly or are you just trying to be mean? SA doesn't get to decide what happens at Fairlington COMMUNITY Center, the County Board does. The. Board. Won't. Give. Back. Old. Schools. Everyone knows this. It's a dead issue. Anyone still pining or pushing it as a solution is either wackadoo or purposefully tying to deflect.
Looking at you right comment insinuating frivolous "green space" at Career Center, now I realize you're just a NA jerk. You really think the solution is three schools on that lot, with no field? Just so your under enrolled, Mayberry-walkable neighborhood school can stay that way? Congrats, you just earned another opponent, now I'm perfectly happy for your NA community to share the effects long felt in SA. Thanks for helping me to decide against you.

I guess APS staff are wackadoodles because they listed it as a viable alternative to Nottingham for swing space. Try reading the report before you come on here and blather on like an uneducated fool.

I did read the report. And I'm on a related a task force. And I was involved in last CIP. You do any of that, or did you just parachute in because your precious neighborhood school finally can't deflect the reality the rest of county has been feeling? Congrats on making another opponent - I'm going to go email APS Engage my support for this as somebody with all my experiences.

Make sure you list all your credentials. I'm sure APS Engage will be very impressed. And do tell them you're against the proposal because someone said something on DCUM that upset you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

SA doesn’t want to give up Zumba at the Fairlington community center, or their “green space” at MPSA, which are the most realistic possibilities for relieving their overcrowding. That’s fine, but those are choices they are making. There isn’t some huge cache of land open for sale in SA. The idea that everyone else needs to suffer equally is just ludicrous. Overcrowding is bad, full stop.

NP. Are you that ignorantly or are you just trying to be mean? SA doesn't get to decide what happens at Fairlington COMMUNITY Center, the County Board does. The. Board. Won't. Give. Back. Old. Schools. Everyone knows this. It's a dead issue. Anyone still pining or pushing it as a solution is either wackadoo or purposefully tying to deflect.
Looking at you right comment insinuating frivolous "green space" at Career Center, now I realize you're just a NA jerk. You really think the solution is three schools on that lot, with no field? Just so your under enrolled, Mayberry-walkable neighborhood school can stay that way? Congrats, you just earned another opponent, now I'm perfectly happy for your NA community to share the effects long felt in SA. Thanks for helping me to decide against you.

I guess APS staff are wackadoodles because they listed it as a viable alternative to Nottingham for swing space. Try reading the report before you come on here and blather on like an uneducated fool.

I did read the report. And I'm on a related a task force. And I was involved in last CIP. You do any of that, or did you just parachute in because your precious neighborhood school finally can't deflect the reality the rest of county has been feeling? Congrats on making another opponent - I'm going to go email APS Engage my support for this as somebody with all my experiences.

APS staff has found the thread... welcome, pre-CIP author!

I really hope you believe that. Because you're so wrong. It just occurred to me that many NA posters here are out of their league - you haven't been involved at the system level. You were not on task forces, working groups, FACs, BACs, CIPs, etc. maybe PTAs, but that is within your little bubble and it won't help you now in trying to navigate the bigger system. You half-joke anyone who supports this must be APS. Wow, you don't even know what you don't know.

Nope, sorry. I'm not the one who joked about these posts being from APS staff but I am one of the NA posters who thinks this is a dumb plan. And I have actually been involved with APS for years. Why do you assume those who disagree with you must not be involved? I'm sure there's a mix. Some in NA have been involved before, some are new to this type of thing. Just like in SA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

A few high SES parents doesn’t help anyone. You’re kidding yourself if you think that can make up the difference in a high poverty school. Arlington is the smallest county in the country. It’s astonishing that our schools are this segregated given our size and wealth. If vouchers are coming into the conversation, Arlington can only blame itself. We are the problem.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

SA doesn’t want to give up Zumba at the Fairlington community center, or their “green space” at MPSA, which are the most realistic possibilities for relieving their overcrowding. That’s fine, but those are choices they are making. There isn’t some huge cache of land open for sale in SA. The idea that everyone else needs to suffer equally is just ludicrous. Overcrowding is bad, full stop.

NP. Are you that ignorantly or are you just trying to be mean? SA doesn't get to decide what happens at Fairlington COMMUNITY Center, the County Board does. The. Board. Won't. Give. Back. Old. Schools. Everyone knows this. It's a dead issue. Anyone still pining or pushing it as a solution is either wackadoo or purposefully tying to deflect.
Looking at you right comment insinuating frivolous "green space" at Career Center, now I realize you're just a NA jerk. You really think the solution is three schools on that lot, with no field? Just so your under enrolled, Mayberry-walkable neighborhood school can stay that way? Congrats, you just earned another opponent, now I'm perfectly happy for your NA community to share the effects long felt in SA. Thanks for helping me to decide against you.

I guess APS staff are wackadoodles because they listed it as a viable alternative to Nottingham for swing space. Try reading the report before you come on here and blather on like an uneducated fool.

I did read the report. And I'm on a related a task force. And I was involved in last CIP. You do any of that, or did you just parachute in because your precious neighborhood school finally can't deflect the reality the rest of county has been feeling? Congrats on making another opponent - I'm going to go email APS Engage my support for this as somebody with all my experiences.

APS staff has found the thread... welcome, pre-CIP author!

I really hope you believe that. Because you're so wrong. It just occurred to me that many NA posters here are out of their league - you haven't been involved at the system level. You were not on task forces, working groups, FACs, BACs, CIPs, etc. maybe PTAs, but that is within your little bubble and it won't help you now in trying to navigate the bigger system. You half-joke anyone who supports this must be APS. Wow, you don't even know what you don't know.

All of this participation, and yet you still missed that Fairlington CC was listed as a viable option for swing space. I don’t really care that you’re not an “ally” - you seem prone to hysterics. I’m sure that makes you a very productive contributor to the disaster APS is becoming.

You’re still not understanding. It’s not viable, and never was. It’s listed because every time we have one of these plans, people like you show up and demand that we take property we don’t own and retrofit it to our specs. They’re listing all the non-viable alternatives that have been explored either in past processes or by one of the committees. They’ve already been ruled out, and this probably isn’t an exhaustive list. The only viable site is Nottingham.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

SA doesn’t want to give up Zumba at the Fairlington community center, or their “green space” at MPSA, which are the most realistic possibilities for relieving their overcrowding. That’s fine, but those are choices they are making. There isn’t some huge cache of land open for sale in SA. The idea that everyone else needs to suffer equally is just ludicrous. Overcrowding is bad, full stop.

NP. Are you that ignorantly or are you just trying to be mean? SA doesn't get to decide what happens at Fairlington COMMUNITY Center, the County Board does. The. Board. Won't. Give. Back. Old. Schools. Everyone knows this. It's a dead issue. Anyone still pining or pushing it as a solution is either wackadoo or purposefully tying to deflect.
Looking at you right comment insinuating frivolous "green space" at Career Center, now I realize you're just a NA jerk. You really think the solution is three schools on that lot, with no field? Just so your under enrolled, Mayberry-walkable neighborhood school can stay that way? Congrats, you just earned another opponent, now I'm perfectly happy for your NA community to share the effects long felt in SA. Thanks for helping me to decide against you.

I guess APS staff are wackadoodles because they listed it as a viable alternative to Nottingham for swing space. Try reading the report before you come on here and blather on like an uneducated fool.

I did read the report. And I'm on a related a task force. And I was involved in last CIP. You do any of that, or did you just parachute in because your precious neighborhood school finally can't deflect the reality the rest of county has been feeling? Congrats on making another opponent - I'm going to go email APS Engage my support for this as somebody with all my experiences.

APS staff has found the thread... welcome, pre-CIP author!

I really hope you believe that. Because you're so wrong. It just occurred to me that many NA posters here are out of their league - you haven't been involved at the system level. You were not on task forces, working groups, FACs, BACs, CIPs, etc. maybe PTAs, but that is within your little bubble and it won't help you now in trying to navigate the bigger system. You half-joke anyone who supports this must be APS. Wow, you don't even know what you don't know.

All of this participation, and yet you still missed that Fairlington CC was listed as a viable option for swing space. I don’t really care that you’re not an “ally” - you seem prone to hysterics. I’m sure that makes you a very productive contributor to the disaster APS is becoming.

You’re still not understanding. It’s not viable, and never was. It’s listed because every time we have one of these plans, people like you show up and demand that we take property we don’t own and retrofit it to our specs. They’re listing all the non-viable alternatives that have been explored either in past processes or by one of the committees. They’ve already been ruled out, and this probably isn’t an exhaustive list. The only viable site is Nottingham.

When you’ve created a list of specious “must haves,” unequally apply considerations like busing and convenience, rely on spurious projection methodologies that are consistently wrong by an order of magnitude, then impose “get ready” cost as the main factor, Nottingham is and was only going to be the only viable option. There was never going to be an alternative, because the criteria were defined to exclude every option except Nottingham.

APS staff doesn’t want anyone challenging their assumptions, or god forbid, bringing up things that were a huge priority 5 years ago like transportation and overcrowding, because then the whole thing falls apart.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nottingham Petition addressed to Don Beyer. 2018. As advertised. Change.org. Still makes me giggle. Love you, Notties.

I didn’t sign this petition, wasn’t even in APS at the time, yet it’s my kid that’s going to have to school in an overcrowded Tuckahoe. I’m not a Buddhist and I didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I’m don’t think that “karma” as a religious concept applies to me here.

Perhaps when APS staff is meeting with Buddhist religious leaders to decide what days we need to take off, they can ask them if they should make school planning decisions based on “karma”. Or what’s the other one? Ah yes, the sh*t sandwich.

If I’m Tuckahoe, I’m very cautious about letting Nottingham work me up about a potential for mild overcrowding. It’s not clear what those numbers will be and 113 is NOT worrisome overcrowding. Buying into the Nottingham drama to block this is not your best move for a positive outcome for Tuckahoe. Work with APS staff instead.

I think pretty clearly you’re not Tuckahoe. And maybe have not experienced severe overcrowding. Tuckahoe has. Nottingham has. I would not endorse a plan that overcrowds my school by 113% on day one. What happens year two? Year three?

Meanwhile, SA schools are overcrowded year after year. Maybe it’s NA’s turn to take one for the team so some of these old buildings can be renovated.

Don't try to turn this into a North vs South thing. We lived through ridiculous overcrowding in North Arlington and the Southies didn't care. People tend not to care about things that don't impact them directly.

SA schools are more overcrowded than those in NA. It’s a fact.

So, yeah. Sorry if we don’t care.

You don’t care. I can’t imagine you speak for the entirety of south arlington.

DP in south Arlington. We don’t care. This is a sensible plan with long-term benefits for the entire county, and there’s a small faction that’s whining about it.

Let's just for a moment imagine the optics if APS wanted to shutter a much beloved neighborhood elementary school in South Arlington in order to provide a swing space for North Arlington children to use while their own schools are being renovated. Can you even imagine the outcry?

In stark contrast, APS went out of its way to keep Drew, an underutilized elementary school in South Arlington, open as a neighborhood school.

It was kept open as a neighborhood school in an area that could help alleviate overcrowding at other SA schools. It wasn't unneeded. Cant' say the same for your much beloved neighborhood elementary school in NE right now. APS didn't purposely set out to close a NA school to serve SA. They noted several underutilized NA schools all in proximity to each other and saw an opportunity that could help them better serve several schools by facilitating multiple much-needed renovations. AND they will return it to a neighborhood school again when it is needed.

Everyone keeps using this APS talking point. It will never happen, at least for a generation of students - you don't just flip a switch and start up a new elementary school. Once it is closed, it is closed.

Obviously if Nottingham's numbers increased to the extent that APS needed the seats up there, APS will reopen it. What WON'T happen, probably, is that if 22207 keeps going private and its numbers stay down, the school will stay as a swing space, or whatever. Maybe a community center! And if your kids can still have a walkable, great, nearby school but just a teeny bit further away, and the county doesn't have to waste money paying staff for serving a fraction of the population that other schools are serving -- that's a win for the county if not for you personally.

You all weren't very concerned when McKinley was the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" -- in fact you pointed the missile at them to save yourselves from the option school fate. I don't think the "much beloved neighborhood elementary school" argument should hold any water. You're not going to find any parents in Arlington who are like, "oh yeah, let's totally burn this school down to the ground." People love their schools. But if your school is underutilized as yours is -- and as Nottingham parents have contributed to making it so -- don't try to float your special love for your school as some reason it should stay open when it's needed by APS. If Nottingham parents REALLY love their school so much, they should put their kids where their mouths are and come back from private. Otherwise, learn to deal with reality maybe.

The fact that the most wealthy portion of the population is going private will have a long term impact on the school district negatively. Mark my words. It’s a historic change in APS and one the school system just wants to ignore, saying who needs those people. Public schools need them long term.

This. Over the long term do you want to look like ACPS?

How do you propose to get them back exactly? And it’s not really “getting them back.” Demographics have changed. Wealthier families skew private, even in areas with “good” schools. The wealthier the population, the more who will be in private. Unless you can turn back time and make Arlington more affordable, I don’t know what you have in mind.

I don’t know, but closing the neighborhood school, having 25+ kids crammed into each Kindergarten class helmed by a long-term sub instead of a properly licensed and hired teacher, and having more 3-4 day weeks than full 5 day weeks with no option for aftercare isn’t going to do it. APS is pretty much begging every family that has the ability to take their kids and bail out.

Wealthy people don’t need vouchers, but every “lower UMC” family is going to feel a real pinch from private school tuition. Every single one of those families now becomes susceptible to a Youngkin voucher push. Democrats in other places have supported vouchers when they felt the schools were no longer serving them well - we are not immune to that here.

What is wrong with vouchers if the school system can’t get it together?

“What is wrong with vouchers?”

Really?

I just don’t see the issue. Arlington is already unnecessarily creating high poverty segregated schools all on its own. I don’t see that it matters if we throw vouchers into the mix. Arlington should burn with shame over its school boundaries.

Usually it's the white upper SES parents*** in the high poverty schools that want vouchers. Who does that help?

***Whose kids already have seats in private schools.

[Anonymous]

APS should close NES just so this thread will die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:APS should close NES just so this thread will die.

I was posting here way back when. Checked back today. I can’t believe it’s still going. Is it the same 5 people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should close NES just so this thread will die.

I was posting here way back when. Checked back today. I can’t believe it’s still going. Is it the same 5 people?

I dunno. I was also posting earlier and I’m surprised it’s still going.

[Anonymous]

Back in MY day, Nottingham kids could walk to two different elementary schools, and they were all underenrolled, uphill both ways.