Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So per the kid's older sister, he didn't want to go on the sub and only did it bc it was Fathers Day/his father was Titanic obsessed (others had dropped out so seats opened up). Per his aunt - he was terrified of going and had expressed to other family members that he was terrified.

Wow. Learn to say no - even to mommy and daddy - folks. Or as I said before why on earth could mom not step in here and tell DH he was free to do what he wanted but her DS wasn't going esp since he was terrified!?

What makes you think the mother had any say in this matter? Different culture.

The mother is white/British. She's not a subservient Pakistani woman - and btw if you think Pakistani women are subservient with respect to their baby boys lol you don't know our culture. Mama always wins re her kids and esp her son at this age.

The culture issue may not be Pakistani vs European culture as much as billionaire culture. We don't know how this guy was - he actually wasn't a billionaire, "only" worth hundreds of millions. We don't know if this was a family where daddy was like you live this life because of MY money, MY empire, we'll do things MY way - and everyone went with it because of course they liked their rich lifestyle.

The guy was 19 yrs old, not 9. I mean really. I know kids are taking longer to grow up these days but man, he was 19. He could’ve said no, my kids refuse to go everywhere with me. Not blaming him but let’s not act like he was a child.

Do you have a 19 year old? Because they aren't substantively that different than a 17 or 18 year old. The thing about adulthood is that it's a process. You don't magically transform the day you turn 18. He did not have enough life experience or brain development to properly assess the risk here. He trusted his dad to guide him.

I was scared of plenty of things at that age. My dad was my cheerleader, occasionally pushing me to do things I otherwise would not have. I don't blame the kid for trusting his dad. It's a sad story and my thoughts are with his mom and sister.

I was 19 once, I am nearing 50 now. At 19 I was not much different than I am today, maturity wise. I traveled throughout Europe with one other person, had a job, and was attending college. This was a different generation though. I didn’t listen to my parents but I was mature enough to make decent choices, I am a woman though. Maybe some people are much slower to mature.

Np, thankfully this board is anonymous because admitting you haven't grown much in 30 years is embarassing.

[Anonymous]

If there was let’s say a crack or something wrong with the vessel to cause a breach leading to implosion, wouldn’t it have imploded somewhere along the way down? It wouldn’t have made it down to 12,000 feet and then suddenly implode at that depth right? So now I’m wondering-did it suffer some sort of malfunction down near the titanic and they decided to abort by releasing the ballasts and that malfunction led to a breach in pressure and it imploded? I guess there’s no way to tell whether it imploded closer to the seabed or somewhere higher up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So per the kid's older sister, he didn't want to go on the sub and only did it bc it was Fathers Day/his father was Titanic obsessed (others had dropped out so seats opened up). Per his aunt - he was terrified of going and had expressed to other family members that he was terrified.

Wow. Learn to say no - even to mommy and daddy - folks. Or as I said before why on earth could mom not step in here and tell DH he was free to do what he wanted but her DS wasn't going esp since he was terrified!?

What makes you think the mother had any say in this matter? Different culture.

The mother is white/British. She's not a subservient Pakistani woman - and btw if you think Pakistani women are subservient with respect to their baby boys lol you don't know our culture. Mama always wins re her kids and esp her son at this age.

The culture issue may not be Pakistani vs European culture as much as billionaire culture. We don't know how this guy was - he actually wasn't a billionaire, "only" worth hundreds of millions. We don't know if this was a family where daddy was like you live this life because of MY money, MY empire, we'll do things MY way - and everyone went with it because of course they liked their rich lifestyle.

The guy was 19 yrs old, not 9. I mean really. I know kids are taking longer to grow up these days but man, he was 19. He could’ve said no, my kids refuse to go everywhere with me. Not blaming him but let’s not act like he was a child.

Do you have a 19 year old? Because they aren't substantively that different than a 17 or 18 year old. The thing about adulthood is that it's a process. You don't magically transform the day you turn 18. He did not have enough life experience or brain development to properly assess the risk here. He trusted his dad to guide him.

I was scared of plenty of things at that age. My dad was my cheerleader, occasionally pushing me to do things I otherwise would not have. I don't blame the kid for trusting his dad. It's a sad story and my thoughts are with his mom and sister.

I was 19 once, I am nearing 50 now. At 19 I was not much different than I am today, maturity wise. I traveled throughout Europe with one other person, had a job, and was attending college. This was a different generation though. I didn’t listen to my parents but I was mature enough to make decent choices, I am a woman though. Maybe some people are much slower to mature.

Np, thankfully this board is anonymous because admitting you haven't grown much in 30 years is embarassing.

I have grown but I was a very self reliant kid, very mature compared to kids today. I matured early because I had to I think. My parents told me to get a job and save to buy a house, which I did at 25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So per the kid's older sister, he didn't want to go on the sub and only did it bc it was Fathers Day/his father was Titanic obsessed (others had dropped out so seats opened up). Per his aunt - he was terrified of going and had expressed to other family members that he was terrified.

Wow. Learn to say no - even to mommy and daddy - folks. Or as I said before why on earth could mom not step in here and tell DH he was free to do what he wanted but her DS wasn't going esp since he was terrified!?

What makes you think the mother had any say in this matter? Different culture.

The mother is white/British. She's not a subservient Pakistani woman - and btw if you think Pakistani women are subservient with respect to their baby boys lol you don't know our culture. Mama always wins re her kids and esp her son at this age.

The culture issue may not be Pakistani vs European culture as much as billionaire culture. We don't know how this guy was - he actually wasn't a billionaire, "only" worth hundreds of millions. We don't know if this was a family where daddy was like you live this life because of MY money, MY empire, we'll do things MY way - and everyone went with it because of course they liked their rich lifestyle.

The guy was 19 yrs old, not 9. I mean really. I know kids are taking longer to grow up these days but man, he was 19. He could’ve said no, my kids refuse to go everywhere with me. Not blaming him but let’s not act like he was a child.

Do you have a 19 year old? Because they aren't substantively that different than a 17 or 18 year old. The thing about adulthood is that it's a process. You don't magically transform the day you turn 18. He did not have enough life experience or brain development to properly assess the risk here. He trusted his dad to guide him.

I was scared of plenty of things at that age. My dad was my cheerleader, occasionally pushing me to do things I otherwise would not have. I don't blame the kid for trusting his dad. It's a sad story and my thoughts are with his mom and sister.

I was 19 once, I am nearing 50 now. At 19 I was not much different than I am today, maturity wise. I traveled throughout Europe with one other person, had a job, and was attending college. This was a different generation though. I didn’t listen to my parents but I was mature enough to make decent choices, I am a woman though. Maybe some people are much slower to mature.

Np, thankfully this board is anonymous because admitting you haven't grown much in 30 years is embarassing.

Glad I wasn’t the only one who was surprised by this post. I cannot imagine being boastful about being as mature at 50 as you were at 19.

I have certainly seen many folks who did peak in their late teens and never experienced much personal growth afterward, but then I spend decades working in the criminal justice system and family law courts and both are packed with such folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there was let’s say a crack or something wrong with the vessel to cause a breach leading to implosion, wouldn’t it have imploded somewhere along the way down? It wouldn’t have made it down to 12,000 feet and then suddenly implode at that depth right? So now I’m wondering-did it suffer some sort of malfunction down near the titanic and they decided to abort by releasing the ballasts and that malfunction led to a breach in pressure and it imploded? I guess there’s no way to tell whether it imploded closer to the seabed or somewhere higher up.

Again, it was descending too fast per sources on the crew. That was the reason they released the ballast. Descending too fast increases stress on the vehicle and was probably a significant factor in the implosion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So per the kid's older sister, he didn't want to go on the sub and only did it bc it was Fathers Day/his father was Titanic obsessed (others had dropped out so seats opened up). Per his aunt - he was terrified of going and had expressed to other family members that he was terrified.

Wow. Learn to say no - even to mommy and daddy - folks. Or as I said before why on earth could mom not step in here and tell DH he was free to do what he wanted but her DS wasn't going esp since he was terrified!?

What makes you think the mother had any say in this matter? Different culture.

The mother is white/British. She's not a subservient Pakistani woman - and btw if you think Pakistani women are subservient with respect to their baby boys lol you don't know our culture. Mama always wins re her kids and esp her son at this age.

The culture issue may not be Pakistani vs European culture as much as billionaire culture. We don't know how this guy was - he actually wasn't a billionaire, "only" worth hundreds of millions. We don't know if this was a family where daddy was like you live this life because of MY money, MY empire, we'll do things MY way - and everyone went with it because of course they liked their rich lifestyle.

The guy was 19 yrs old, not 9. I mean really. I know kids are taking longer to grow up these days but man, he was 19. He could’ve said no, my kids refuse to go everywhere with me. Not blaming him but let’s not act like he was a child.

Do you have a 19 year old? Because they aren't substantively that different than a 17 or 18 year old. The thing about adulthood is that it's a process. You don't magically transform the day you turn 18. He did not have enough life experience or brain development to properly assess the risk here. He trusted his dad to guide him.

I was scared of plenty of things at that age. My dad was my cheerleader, occasionally pushing me to do things I otherwise would not have. I don't blame the kid for trusting his dad. It's a sad story and my thoughts are with his mom and sister.

I was 19 once, I am nearing 50 now. At 19 I was not much different than I am today, maturity wise. I traveled throughout Europe with one other person, had a job, and was attending college. This was a different generation though. I didn’t listen to my parents but I was mature enough to make decent choices, I am a woman though. Maybe some people are much slower to mature.

Np, thankfully this board is anonymous because admitting you haven't grown much in 30 years is embarassing.

Glad I wasn’t the only one who was surprised by this post. I cannot imagine being boastful about being as mature at 50 as you were at 19.

I have certainly seen many folks who did peak in their late teens and never experienced much personal growth afterward, but then I spend decades working in the criminal justice system and family law courts and both are packed with such folks.

How old are you? Because if you’re not over about 45, you were coddled. Kids had to grow up faster then, life wasn’t politically correct, there was no safe space, you either made it or you didn’t. I have been working for close to 30 years now, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the whole thing is crazy, but I don't think people are really thinking about the perspective of the passengers. When you're rich enough that 250k is nothing to you, and you're going down there with a company and in a vessel that have done it successfully before, it probably doesn't sound so crazy. I would never, because I am claustrophobic and the ocean freaks me out, but some people are unbothered and may have more of a sense of adventure than me. One of the passengers had already been down there dozens of times. James Cameron--a movie director, not even a professional diver or explorer--has been down dozens of times. It really seems less out of the box when you consider all of this.

It really doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I am genuinely sad for the 19yr old.

sad because he’s younger than the rest? It is sad, sad that all the men died. He wasn’t a baby. God, some people have kids at 19, they have jobs, responsibilities. Why are we acting like he was 9? If his father was abusive and forced him into the crap device, then that’s concerning, but that’s not the case here. Do we feel this bad if a 19 year old has a motorcycle accident while riding with his dad? Or if a 19 year old dies while sky diving with Dad? I feel equal sorrow for everyone. The dad was only 48, he was very young also.

Yeah I mean it struck me that the dad's own dad is in his late 70s/early 80s. That man lost a son and a grandson.

I feel for the families. But yeah, a 48 year old has potentially another 50 years of life, even the oldest man was 77 years young. Sadly, you can die at any age. These men were robbed of life, they made one bad decision, like many people do, and that’s it, show’s over.

They weren't robbed; they made a choice (minus the kid). Robbed is being murdered, killed by a drunk driver, plane crash etc. Signing a waiver that notes "death" in it four times is a choice.

I get it. This didn't happen TO THEM. They did it - they chose to go down there in a carbon fiber mini van after signing waivers noting death. So yeah terrible decision. But just because someone makes terrible decisions doesn't mean they deserve to die.

I wasn't challenging if they deserved to die. I was challenging the word "robbed." They gambled with their lives and lost the bet. That's not how I define robbed. Rob is when something is taken from you without consent. They literally signed their lives away.

But you can say that about motor cycle riders, bike riders even, rock climbers, etc. Robbed, gambled with their lives, it’s semantics, either way many have succeeded at what they were trying to accomplish. It’s a shame, I feel they were robbed. They trusted that they would survive like the others before them.

It's not semantics. If you go to the casino and gamble away $1,000 and use the argument that you were "robbed" because your sister/cousin/brother all won when they gambled, no one will have sympathy for you. It's called "you gambled and lost," but you were not robbed.

Look up the definition.

When you give something away while clothed in your right mind, you did it with consent. Being robbed is without consent. They voluntarily locked themselves in a tube with no way out and paid a company 250k with no guarantees of their safe return.

I know the meaning of robbed, thank you. I feel that they were jipped, is that better? A bad decision doesn’t mean they weren’t worthy of a good healthy long life. They made a bad decision and it robbed them of life.

No, an offensive term is not a better example.

Cheated. Is that politically correct enough? Or no because cheaters deserve respect too.

These guys had all the resources to make good decisions and they made the bad one. Despite their wealth and intelligence they ignored the warning signs and did it anyway. This isn’t an 18 year old diving into a shallow lake, this is grown ass men. This is no different than the person who ignores all the signs that say DANGER DEADLY WAVES, and goes on the beach and gets swept away. I cannot help you if you aren’t willing to help yourself. I can’t care more about you than you do. Most deaths like this are from bad decisions, very few deaths from good decisions. Feel very bad for the kid, no one else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So per the kid's older sister, he didn't want to go on the sub and only did it bc it was Fathers Day/his father was Titanic obsessed (others had dropped out so seats opened up). Per his aunt - he was terrified of going and had expressed to other family members that he was terrified.

Wow. Learn to say no - even to mommy and daddy - folks. Or as I said before why on earth could mom not step in here and tell DH he was free to do what he wanted but her DS wasn't going esp since he was terrified!?

What makes you think the mother had any say in this matter? Different culture.

The mother is white/British. She's not a subservient Pakistani woman - and btw if you think Pakistani women are subservient with respect to their baby boys lol you don't know our culture. Mama always wins re her kids and esp her son at this age.

The culture issue may not be Pakistani vs European culture as much as billionaire culture. We don't know how this guy was - he actually wasn't a billionaire, "only" worth hundreds of millions. We don't know if this was a family where daddy was like you live this life because of MY money, MY empire, we'll do things MY way - and everyone went with it because of course they liked their rich lifestyle.

The guy was 19 yrs old, not 9. I mean really. I know kids are taking longer to grow up these days but man, he was 19. He could’ve said no, my kids refuse to go everywhere with me. Not blaming him but let’s not act like he was a child.

Do you have a 19 year old? Because they aren't substantively that different than a 17 or 18 year old. The thing about adulthood is that it's a process. You don't magically transform the day you turn 18. He did not have enough life experience or brain development to properly assess the risk here. He trusted his dad to guide him.

I was scared of plenty of things at that age. My dad was my cheerleader, occasionally pushing me to do things I otherwise would not have. I don't blame the kid for trusting his dad. It's a sad story and my thoughts are with his mom and sister.

I was 19 once, I am nearing 50 now. At 19 I was not much different than I am today, maturity wise. I traveled throughout Europe with one other person, had a job, and was attending college. This was a different generation though. I didn’t listen to my parents but I was mature enough to make decent choices, I am a woman though. Maybe some people are much slower to mature.

PP’s statement about brain development in 19-year-olds isn’t speculation—it’s well-established research. Yes, some kids are more mature than others but the fact remains that 19-year-old brains are significantly less adept at risk assessment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I'd like to know is what was making those noises every 30 minutes if it wasn't Titan?

Sigh. It wasn’t “every 30 minutes.” That was conjecture and speculation that got passed around as “fact.”

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain what the obsession with the titanic is? Why do we need to keep revisiting the story and the wreckage after all that’s already been covered about it.

[Anonymous]

James Cameron was just on CNN - probably the most interesting person anyone has talked to the last four days. Had great insight.

[Anonymous]

Any news org has talked to is what I meant. He knows his stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:James Cameron was just on CNN - probably the most interesting person anyone has talked to the last four days. Had great insight.

So what did he say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there was let’s say a crack or something wrong with the vessel to cause a breach leading to implosion, wouldn’t it have imploded somewhere along the way down? It wouldn’t have made it down to 12,000 feet and then suddenly implode at that depth right? So now I’m wondering-did it suffer some sort of malfunction down near the titanic and they decided to abort by releasing the ballasts and that malfunction led to a breach in pressure and it imploded? I guess there’s no way to tell whether it imploded closer to the seabed or somewhere higher up.

Again, it was descending too fast per sources on the crew. That was the reason they released the ballast. Descending too fast increases stress on the vehicle and was probably a significant factor in the implosion.

where has this fast descent been reported?