Budget Frustration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been with this thread from the beginning. I have responded a few times, always kindly. I've now decided OP is a troll just trying to keep the conversation going. How can he not see that there is no way around it. He has two choices. Reduce spending (yes, stop with the expensive groceries and crazy travel, and sell the house they can't afford) OR increase income. As someone else said, it's simple math.

Me too and I agree with you. At first I believed him but this whole 10 boxes of tofu is ridiculous.

And he poo-poos all the suggestions.

Curious what you think the solution is OP?

OP already said what he wants: he wants to move. He wanted everyone to say, “yeah, you have to move.” Not to challenge his spending. Because he wants to keep spending how they spend! And that’s fine…if they move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

I know. It’s easy to make fun of people making $300k a year and calling themselves “middle class,” but add in some debt from med school or law school, and for two working parents, this is your budget. Modest house in a far-flung suburb, public schools, used cars and furniture, limited budget for kids activities, babysitters, or takeout. It’s not bad, but you don’t exactly feel wealthy.

I'm PP here and I guess I was wildly unclear, because I had the opposite takeaway. I'm saying that OP's HHI with the new job will be twice my HHI and they don't or shouldn't have twice my needs. (2 adults + 3 kids) =/= 2(2 adults + 1 kid) Or not MORE than twice my needs.

And I feel comfortable and fortunate at my HHI. But OP would somehow feel nearly impoverished. That's depressing. I'm not going to change anyone's mind about their own feelings, nor would I want to try. But no, I don't think having a HHI of $250-300k, even in the DC area, is or should feel "barely middle class" or whatever. Something is off in terms of priorities, feeling the need to keep up with the Joneses... something.

Well you see the numbers, other than travel what is “Joneses”-esque? We are probably the least status conscious family for 20 miles, so curious what about our judge seems status driven.

OP, that last comment is just silly. I live 10 miles from Chevy Chase. We live on 1/3 of your current budget in a close in suburb and frankly have better budgeting sense than you do. I did not spend 1.2 million fora house though snd we do one vacation a year (not family, beach, snd vacation). Buying a 1.2 million dollar house and buying new furniture for it iS keeping up with the Joneses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

I know. It’s easy to make fun of people making $300k a year and calling themselves “middle class,” but add in some debt from med school or law school, and for two working parents, this is your budget. Modest house in a far-flung suburb, public schools, used cars and furniture, limited budget for kids activities, babysitters, or takeout. It’s not bad, but you don’t exactly feel wealthy.

I'm PP here and I guess I was wildly unclear, because I had the opposite takeaway. I'm saying that OP's HHI with the new job will be twice my HHI and they don't or shouldn't have twice my needs. (2 adults + 3 kids) =/= 2(2 adults + 1 kid) Or not MORE than twice my needs.

And I feel comfortable and fortunate at my HHI. But OP would somehow feel nearly impoverished. That's depressing. I'm not going to change anyone's mind about their own feelings, nor would I want to try. But no, I don't think having a HHI of $250-300k, even in the DC area, is or should feel "barely middle class" or whatever. Something is off in terms of priorities, feeling the need to keep up with the Joneses... something.

Well you see the numbers, other than travel what is “Joneses”-esque? We are probably the least status conscious family for 20 miles, so curious what about our judge seems status driven.

OP, that last comment is just silly. I live 10 miles from Chevy Chase. We live on 1/3 of your current budget in a close in suburb and frankly have better budgeting sense than you do. I did not spend 1.2 million fora house though snd we do one vacation a year (not family, beach, snd vacation). Buying a 1.2 million dollar house and buying new furniture for it iS keeping up with the Joneses.

Well, 10 miles from CC is like Rockville, so sure you live in a cheaper and probably much nicer house than us.

We live here because of the commute and demands of our jobs, not to for a fancy zip code.

And I’m sure our IKEA furniture and new Home Depot rakes are the envy of Chevy Chase.

I personally don’t buy used furniture because of catching bed bugs from a yard sale in my college days, but I’d that’s how you fly it does save a lot of money as long as you don’t have to blow the savings on pest service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

I know. It’s easy to make fun of people making $300k a year and calling themselves “middle class,” but add in some debt from med school or law school, and for two working parents, this is your budget. Modest house in a far-flung suburb, public schools, used cars and furniture, limited budget for kids activities, babysitters, or takeout. It’s not bad, but you don’t exactly feel wealthy.

Those are all lifestyle issues and personal choices. $300K is wealthy. We live comfortably on half that. We have an unlimited budget for take out and kids activities and don't stress about spending at all. BUT, we also choose a small house, the cheapest we could find at the time. If you go to med/law school, you are making a choice and that's on you. You cannot scream poverty for debt you choose to take on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

I know. It’s easy to make fun of people making $300k a year and calling themselves “middle class,” but add in some debt from med school or law school, and for two working parents, this is your budget. Modest house in a far-flung suburb, public schools, used cars and furniture, limited budget for kids activities, babysitters, or takeout. It’s not bad, but you don’t exactly feel wealthy.

Those are all lifestyle issues and personal choices. $300K is wealthy. We live comfortably on half that. We have an unlimited budget for take out and kids activities and don't stress about spending at all. BUT, we also choose a small house, the cheapest we could find at the time. If you go to med/law school, you are making a choice and that's on you. You cannot scream poverty for debt you choose to take on.

But I wouldn’t make $300k if not for the debt so it’s not exactly a choice. It was a requirement to make that money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

I know. It’s easy to make fun of people making $300k a year and calling themselves “middle class,” but add in some debt from med school or law school, and for two working parents, this is your budget. Modest house in a far-flung suburb, public schools, used cars and furniture, limited budget for kids activities, babysitters, or takeout. It’s not bad, but you don’t exactly feel wealthy.

Those are all lifestyle issues and personal choices. $300K is wealthy. We live comfortably on half that. We have an unlimited budget for take out and kids activities and don't stress about spending at all. BUT, we also choose a small house, the cheapest we could find at the time. If you go to med/law school, you are making a choice and that's on you. You cannot scream poverty for debt you choose to take on.

I don’t know. Post your budget.
It’s not poverty, but everyone I know who makes $250k as a single parent or a combined income of two working parents lives a fairly modest lifestyle. I don’t know anyone who is living in a million dollar home with four kids on that income.

[Anonymous]

Ugh op. You have to cut:

1. Mortgage to $2500
2. Beach week
3. Vacation
4, cell phones (check google fi)


Then set a more realistic budget for shopping, groceries, camps, entertainment childcare.
You’re not special. Make a budget and stick to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh op. You have to cut:

1. Mortgage to $2500
2. Beach week
3. Vacation
4, cell phones (check google fi)


Then set a more realistic budget for shopping, groceries, camps, entertainment childcare.
You’re not special. Make a budget and stick to it.

Okay, Google Fi is $30 unlimited data but Verizon is $40 — that $50/month is crucial? We have 5 phones on the plan, and I don’t want metered data and have to monitor people’s usage (I wouldn’t mind prepaid where it just drops to 3G after N GBs).

With a $5000 PITI and zero other debt, I can’t understand why we can’t fit into the 28% rule? We are $800 below it!

https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-home-can-you-afford-mortgage-rule-of-thumb-1289846

Anyone who makes $250k and has a higher 28% mortgage, please compare our budget.

What I’ve gotten is: NO VACATIONS, no organic food, and no cleaner.

[Anonymous]

I love how OP broke travel into three separate categories (beach, family, vacation) and it totals to approximately $15,500 a year on travel alone. That's insane.

[Anonymous]

Is OP male or female?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh op. You have to cut:

1. Mortgage to $2500
2. Beach week
3. Vacation
4, cell phones (check google fi)


Then set a more realistic budget for shopping, groceries, camps, entertainment childcare.
You’re not special. Make a budget and stick to it.

Okay, Google Fi is $30 unlimited data but Verizon is $40 — that $50/month is crucial? We have 5 phones on the plan, and I don’t want metered data and have to monitor people’s usage (I wouldn’t mind prepaid where it just drops to 3G after N GBs).

With a $5000 PITI and zero other debt, I can’t understand why we can’t fit into the 28% rule? We are $800 below it!

https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-home-can-you-afford-mortgage-rule-of-thumb-1289846

Anyone who makes $250k and has a higher 28% mortgage, please compare our budget.

What I’ve gotten is: NO VACATIONS, no organic food, and no cleaner.

You are missing git entirely - cut back on your mobile, travel, DIY house repairs, cut out streaming, reduce your grocery bill by at least 1/2, reduce your shopping, and no cleaners.


My mortgage has always been under $2k. So, I spend and do what I want on less income. Your housing is a huge issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read "spouse" not DH, I assumed it is DH writing this, and DW has had enough of being the primary breadwinner but still want the lifestyle.

Has OP since clarified? Not that it matters.

OP here. Yes, this. I’ve tried for almost a decade to boost my income and it’s just not happening. We started both working in similar income fields, but she fell into a fast growing niche and we prioritized her career, which necessitated this location etc.

Kids then came, and now we have two tween boys and just turned 4 daughter. Live in Chevy Chase. I like to think I’m a very egalitarian DH (I’ve always done most of the deep cleaning but she hates my cooking so she tends to cook) but who knows.

I was amused how everyone assumed DH wanted to step back, but as PP says, it shouldn’t matter.

I haven't read everything else, but if you chose this house because of her career and she's stepping back from this career, then you guys need to move. I don't care if she likes the status of living in Chevy Chase, she's going to miss her friends, your boys are going to miss their friends, etc., you need to move, your house is a money pit, you can probably make a lot of money on it next spring, and afford a nice house slightly further away in like Rockville or something. Yes, she'll lose her status, but she's the one cutting your income, she doesn't really get a choice. Move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh op. You have to cut:

1. Mortgage to $2500
2. Beach week
3. Vacation
4, cell phones (check google fi)


Then set a more realistic budget for shopping, groceries, camps, entertainment childcare.
You’re not special. Make a budget and stick to it.

Okay, Google Fi is $30 unlimited data but Verizon is $40 — that $50/month is crucial? We have 5 phones on the plan, and I don’t want metered data and have to monitor people’s usage (I wouldn’t mind prepaid where it just drops to 3G after N GBs).

With a $5000 PITI and zero other debt, I can’t understand why we can’t fit into the 28% rule? We are $800 below it!

https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-home-can-you-afford-mortgage-rule-of-thumb-1289846

Anyone who makes $250k and has a higher 28% mortgage, please compare our budget.

What I’ve gotten is: NO VACATIONS, no organic food, and no cleaner.

You are missing git entirely - cut back on your mobile, travel, DIY house repairs, cut out streaming, reduce your grocery bill by at least 1/2, reduce your shopping, and no cleaners.


My mortgage has always been under $2k. So, I spend and do what I want on less income. Your housing is a huge issue.

A mortgage under $2k is like a $400k house. Where the heck do you live?

Where are all of you finding $500k homes in the DMV?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh op. You have to cut:

1. Mortgage to $2500
2. Beach week
3. Vacation
4, cell phones (check google fi)


Then set a more realistic budget for shopping, groceries, camps, entertainment childcare.
You’re not special. Make a budget and stick to it.

Okay, Google Fi is $30 unlimited data but Verizon is $40 — that $50/month is crucial? We have 5 phones on the plan, and I don’t want metered data and have to monitor people’s usage (I wouldn’t mind prepaid where it just drops to 3G after N GBs).

With a $5000 PITI and zero other debt, I can’t understand why we can’t fit into the 28% rule? We are $800 below it!

https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-home-can-you-afford-mortgage-rule-of-thumb-1289846

Anyone who makes $250k and has a higher 28% mortgage, please compare our budget.

What I’ve gotten is: NO VACATIONS, no organic food, and no cleaner.

You are missing git entirely - cut back on your mobile, travel, DIY house repairs, cut out streaming, reduce your grocery bill by at least 1/2, reduce your shopping, and no cleaners.


My mortgage has always been under $2k. So, I spend and do what I want on less income. Your housing is a huge issue.

A mortgage under $2k is like a $400k house. Where the heck do you live?

Where are all of you finding $500k homes in the DMV?

This wasn’t me, but I live Prince George’s county. Super close in too. Houses around here are still $500 K or less which is why I find the “we are the least pretentious” people in a 20 mile radius an idiotic statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh op. You have to cut:

1. Mortgage to $2500
2. Beach week
3. Vacation
4, cell phones (check google fi)


Then set a more realistic budget for shopping, groceries, camps, entertainment childcare.
You’re not special. Make a budget and stick to it.

Okay, Google Fi is $30 unlimited data but Verizon is $40 — that $50/month is crucial? We have 5 phones on the plan, and I don’t want metered data and have to monitor people’s usage (I wouldn’t mind prepaid where it just drops to 3G after N GBs).

With a $5000 PITI and zero other debt, I can’t understand why we can’t fit into the 28% rule? We are $800 below it!

https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-home-can-you-afford-mortgage-rule-of-thumb-1289846

Anyone who makes $250k and has a higher 28% mortgage, please compare our budget.

What I’ve gotten is: NO VACATIONS, no organic food, and no cleaner.

You are missing git entirely - cut back on your mobile, travel, DIY house repairs, cut out streaming, reduce your grocery bill by at least 1/2, reduce your shopping, and no cleaners.


My mortgage has always been under $2k. So, I spend and do what I want on less income. Your housing is a huge issue.

A mortgage under $2k is like a $400k house. Where the heck do you live?

Where are all of you finding $500k homes in the DMV?

presumably OP can get $300k out of his house. He said they had $400k saved when they lived in the apartment and now have $100k. I assume they used the $300k for the down payment. Housing prices have increased in the past year in Chevy Chase so they should make it back and be able to pay the costs associated with buy8ng, selling and buying again. So, they should have a housing budget of $700k based on the $2k mortgage.