Budget Frustration

[Anonymous]

Have you figured out what your taxes will be with your change in income? They may be significantly less.

I actually think your childcare expenses are really low for a family with four kids. I’m not sure that you can realistically cut shopping for clothes, books, toys, gardening supplies, birthday parties, holidays, furniture, babysitters, entertainment, etc. for 2 adults and 4 kids to less than $600/month. Even that seems optimistic. The kids activity costs don’t seem high to me at all. That’s $55 a kid/month. That’s signing kids up for rec sports. They aren’t taking mommy and me swim class or piano lessons or anything.

You can cut vacations, but that still has you living fairly lean and still not in budget.

Bottom line: No. You cannot afford to raise 4 kids in a $1.2 million home with two working parents and an income of $250k/yr.

[Anonymous]

You and your spouse need to have a really hard conversation about your values and your future. You are rich. You have options. You need to ask yourself what do you want to spend money on and why? What do you
Value about work? What do you want your future and your kids’ futures to look like.

But if one spouse wants to or has to cut back on work, then you’re going to have to change your spending habits considerably.


We are not you, but my DH hates his job and wants to quit. So we’re working on saving now so he can retire early at 50. That means making some small sacrifices—- living in a smaller house in Silver Spring, not taking expensive vacations, and finding less expensive camps for our kids. We do not feel deprived, but we stick to our budget and know that the money we invest now will give us the life we want in 10’years.


You have to figure this out for yourself .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like you live your house. I’d move because I wouldn’t want to live a totally austere lifestyle, I’d rather have a different house, but admittedly this area is expensive and commutes are bad.

I didn’t read the whole thread to see where you are located. If jobs/commutes allow I would move. Your kids sound young and not that established in friend groups as of yet. I would consider a nice townhouse. Depending on where you can get something nice between 600-900k relatively close in (thinking Mclean, Falls Church, Vienna in mr head) and that would cut your mortgage 1/3 to 1/2 and then once daycare expenses open up you’ll have a lot more $$$. And, you’ll probably have fewer repair costs. Pick a nice neighborhood that’s well kept with lots of kids.

What year are you living in?

[Anonymous]

Everyone has different things that are easier for them to sacrifice. For us, travel would be the last thing I gave up (not including savings which is the most important to us.) I’m fine in a smaller home that is not fully remodeled, eating food that is mostly not organic, not driving fancy cars or having fancy clothes or phones, etc.

But it doesn’t matter what I choose to give up. YOU (and your wife) have to choose what is most palatable to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone has different things that are easier for them to sacrifice. For us, travel would be the last thing I gave up (not including savings which is the most important to us.) I’m fine in a smaller home that is not fully remodeled, eating food that is mostly not organic, not driving fancy cars or having fancy clothes or phones, etc.

But it doesn’t matter what I choose to give up. YOU (and your wife) have to choose what is most palatable to you.

There are plenty of ways to travel much more cheaply that OP is current doing too.

[Anonymous]

Frankly, OP, even this budget doesn’t seem realistic long term.
How long are you going to get away with kids activities costing $50/month, never buying furniture for your home, driving your current cars, having $0 in entertainment costs, and keeping your current grocery budget for a family of six? What if someone needs speech therapy? What if you have a child who wants to take piano lessons or needs math tutoring? You aren’t going to get a break with anyone making >$200k/yr just because you live in a million dollar home.

If you are going to cut your income that much, then you need to move AND you need to make some changes in your travel budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

This isn’t about organic or fancy cuts of meat, this is us shopping at the grocery stores near us. We compared prices between Giant, Safeway, Moms, and Tj and they were all about the same. It’s when you go to further suburbs that prices drop, not when you pick the $1 tomato vs the $1.10 organic tomato. Also, things like Aldi, Lidl, Costco can help a LOT.

We go through a lot of fresh fruit, that’s expensive. Maybe to fruit baskets a week? 2 gallons of milk. 4 dozen eggs. 10 boxes of tofu. Then 3 heads of cauliflower, a box of spinach, romaine hearts, dozen tomatoes, box of cherry tomatoes, 2 boxes of celery, 2 loaves of French bread, 1 loaf of sliced bread. Two yogurts. That’s probably weekly staples.

That is a lot of expensive food. If you want to eat healthy but eat more cheaply, try buying rice and dried beans in bulk and eating them at least 3-4 times/week. And make your own hummus. Also, if you want to eat healthy, why are you buying french bread? it is just empty calories.

None of that is costly. Lido has that. Asian markets for tofu.

Yes, these are all good options when we have time to drive 20 miles for groceries or spend the weekends at yard sales rather than the home repairs and chores we now do on weekends. The whole reason we are spending so much is because we don’t have time to bargain shop or browse yard sales (and I’m skeptical of that, most have been just absolute junk).

A once a week trip to a less costly grocery store will go far. Take the 4 year old and get there when the store opens on Sun or Sat. You can get nearly everything in that trip.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
You can’t have a $1.2 million house close-in AND have four kids AND have lifestyle kinds of jobs. It doesn’t matter where they buy their tofu. Something has to give.

[Anonymous]

NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

Crud, I misread. So OP in the actual OP thinks their HHI will drop $10,000 American. So even if withholding and the estimate are off, they're still probably dropping $7k, which means even with my big cuts, they're down $4k, which... again, stressful. IDEK

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

I know. It’s easy to make fun of people making $300k a year and calling themselves “middle class,” but add in some debt from med school or law school, and for two working parents, this is your budget. Modest house in a far-flung suburb, public schools, used cars and furniture, limited budget for kids activities, babysitters, or takeout. It’s not bad, but you don’t exactly feel wealthy.

[Anonymous]

I would not move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

This isn’t about organic or fancy cuts of meat, this is us shopping at the grocery stores near us. We compared prices between Giant, Safeway, Moms, and Tj and they were all about the same. It’s when you go to further suburbs that prices drop, not when you pick the $1 tomato vs the $1.10 organic tomato. Also, things like Aldi, Lidl, Costco can help a LOT.

We go through a lot of fresh fruit, that’s expensive. Maybe to fruit baskets a week? 2 gallons of milk. 4 dozen eggs. 10 boxes of tofu. Then 3 heads of cauliflower, a box of spinach, romaine hearts, dozen tomatoes, box of cherry tomatoes, 2 boxes of celery, 2 loaves of French bread, 1 loaf of sliced bread. Two yogurts. That’s probably weekly staples.

That is a lot of expensive food. If you want to eat healthy but eat more cheaply, try buying rice and dried beans in bulk and eating them at least 3-4 times/week. And make your own hummus. Also, if you want to eat healthy, why are you buying french bread? it is just empty calories.

None of that is costly. Lido has that. Asian markets for tofu.

Yes, these are all good options when we have time to drive 20 miles for groceries or spend the weekends at yard sales rather than the home repairs and chores we now do on weekends. The whole reason we are spending so much is because we don’t have time to bargain shop or browse yard sales (and I’m skeptical of that, most have been just absolute junk).

A once a week trip to a less costly grocery store will go far. Take the 4 year old and get there when the store opens on Sun or Sat. You can get nearly everything in that trip.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
You can’t have a $1.2 million house close-in AND have four kids AND have lifestyle kinds of jobs. It doesn’t matter where they buy their tofu. Something has to give.

Yeah this isn't a "give up Starbucks" sort of situation. "No avocado toast." This house just isn't affordable now, regardless of where you buy your tofu.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

This isn’t about organic or fancy cuts of meat, this is us shopping at the grocery stores near us. We compared prices between Giant, Safeway, Moms, and Tj and they were all about the same. It’s when you go to further suburbs that prices drop, not when you pick the $1 tomato vs the $1.10 organic tomato. Also, things like Aldi, Lidl, Costco can help a LOT.

We go through a lot of fresh fruit, that’s expensive. Maybe to fruit baskets a week? 2 gallons of milk. 4 dozen eggs. 10 boxes of tofu. Then 3 heads of cauliflower, a box of spinach, romaine hearts, dozen tomatoes, box of cherry tomatoes, 2 boxes of celery, 2 loaves of French bread, 1 loaf of sliced bread. Two yogurts. That’s probably weekly staples.

That is a lot of expensive food. If you want to eat healthy but eat more cheaply, try buying rice and dried beans in bulk and eating them at least 3-4 times/week. And make your own hummus. Also, if you want to eat healthy, why are you buying french bread? it is just empty calories.

None of that is costly. Lido has that. Asian markets for tofu.

Yes, these are all good options when we have time to drive 20 miles for groceries or spend the weekends at yard sales rather than the home repairs and chores we now do on weekends. The whole reason we are spending so much is because we don’t have time to bargain shop or browse yard sales (and I’m skeptical of that, most have been just absolute junk).

A once a week trip to a less costly grocery store will go far. Take the 4 year old and get there when the store opens on Sun or Sat. You can get nearly everything in that trip.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
You can’t have a $1.2 million house close-in AND have four kids AND have lifestyle kinds of jobs. It doesn’t matter where they buy their tofu. Something has to give.

Yeah this isn't a "give up Starbucks" sort of situation. "No avocado toast." This house just isn't affordable now, regardless of where you buy your tofu.

But why. It’s less than 1/3 of our gross, a fairly standard measure. The problem is on our spending. And yes, once we downshift, travel becomes camping, cleaner goes, and we stick to a grocery budget (what is a reasonable grocery budget for 2 adults, 2 tweens, and pre-K — $800/month?).

It should be doable but it seems extreme for a standard mortgage guideline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

I know. It’s easy to make fun of people making $300k a year and calling themselves “middle class,” but add in some debt from med school or law school, and for two working parents, this is your budget. Modest house in a far-flung suburb, public schools, used cars and furniture, limited budget for kids activities, babysitters, or takeout. It’s not bad, but you don’t exactly feel wealthy.

I'm PP here and I guess I was wildly unclear, because I had the opposite takeaway. I'm saying that OP's HHI with the new job will be twice my HHI and they don't or shouldn't have twice my needs. (2 adults + 3 kids) =/= 2(2 adults + 1 kid) Or not MORE than twice my needs.

And I feel comfortable and fortunate at my HHI. But OP would somehow feel nearly impoverished. That's depressing. I'm not going to change anyone's mind about their own feelings, nor would I want to try. But no, I don't think having a HHI of $250-300k, even in the DC area, is or should feel "barely middle class" or whatever. Something is off in terms of priorities, feeling the need to keep up with the Joneses... something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have read many, but not all replies, so I'm sure I'm missing something.

I feel like I can "easily" cut off $3000/month ($2000 really easily) from this budget without them moving.

However, according to OP, their HHI is dropping $8000/month. I think I remember a F/U that indicated fewer taxes would be withheld, and maybe the estimate is off, so let's say it will "only" drop $6000/month, maybe even only $5000.

Now they're only short ~$3000/month. Even with a MUCH cheaper house ($2000/month!), that's tight, and I don't understand why?

I mean, with deeper analysis, I could figure it out, but DH and I have a $125k HHI and $2700 PITI and we are okay? Granted we only have one kid-- a pretty significant difference. But I would *think* that even adding two kids (including daycare), we'd be fine on TWICE our HHI, even with $2700 PITI, so... IDGI.

Basically this entire thread stresses me out. To think you could have a $250k HHI, no non-mortgage debt-- even in the $$$ DC area-- and be thinking you can only afford a modest house in a farther-flung suburb plus eating rice and beans... SOMETHING is not right.

I know. It’s easy to make fun of people making $300k a year and calling themselves “middle class,” but add in some debt from med school or law school, and for two working parents, this is your budget. Modest house in a far-flung suburb, public schools, used cars and furniture, limited budget for kids activities, babysitters, or takeout. It’s not bad, but you don’t exactly feel wealthy.

I'm PP here and I guess I was wildly unclear, because I had the opposite takeaway. I'm saying that OP's HHI with the new job will be twice my HHI and they don't or shouldn't have twice my needs. (2 adults + 3 kids) =/= 2(2 adults + 1 kid) Or not MORE than twice my needs.

And I feel comfortable and fortunate at my HHI. But OP would somehow feel nearly impoverished. That's depressing. I'm not going to change anyone's mind about their own feelings, nor would I want to try. But no, I don't think having a HHI of $250-300k, even in the DC area, is or should feel "barely middle class" or whatever. Something is off in terms of priorities, feeling the need to keep up with the Joneses... something.

Well you see the numbers, other than travel what is “Joneses”-esque? We are probably the least status conscious family for 20 miles, so curious what about our judge seems status driven.