Do we stay in DC or move to Baltimore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my husband would do it, I would move to Roland Park in a hot second. We have three kids and I am over the constant competitiveness/rat race in the DC area and the transient people. Places like Baltimore are more affordable and people have a real sense of place. I'd like to raise my kids somewhere where their friends don't move every three years and where people are more down to earth.

Don't get stuck on the lack of home appreciation. It's part of the package--that's why it is affordable to live there. Make investments in something other than your home. Also, real cities have crime. Just be aware of it and no where not to go. No one here in DC is driving around the bad parts of NE or SE for fun...you wouldn't do that in Baltimore, Cleveland or Detroit either.

Good luck to you.

I know someone who lives in Roland Park and you are way off in your assessment of it being low key. A lot of very wealthy people live there, and just like wealthy people everywhere, they are committed to keeping their money and influence. It's not a particularly diverse neighborhood.

In my personal experience, the relevant of which is basically the fact I went to one of the big Baltimore prep schools and knew a ton of families from Roland Park and now have friends that own there as well as the fact that I live in DC and have a very stereotypical DC career...the stress levels and competitiveness of even the most “driven” Baltimore person (for lack of a better word) still pales in comparison to those of most DC people I know. There are definitely obnoxious folks in Baltimore—but just totally different levels. I think it has to do with the difference in the industries within the two cities.

This. No matter how well educated you are or how high powered your job (and yes, they exist here), it’s just not cool to be a striver. The ceo of my husband’s company is super low key in person, doesn’t even live in a “super fancy” house and makes 8 figures. We have multiple Nobel prize winners in our neighborhood and they are 100% normal people. It took me about a year to get used to it when we moved from DC. PEople are humble, polite, and not overly showy about status, skills, or money. People don’t brag, it’s a huge social no no.

I’ve has the same experience. The whole hyper competitive parenting culture which is way too prevalent in DC is extremely frowned upon in Baltimore as well. People are very humble and laid back, even if their kids are all stars. Totally different culture up there among middle class and UMC people.

I'd wonder how both PPs respond to the charge that Baltimore is 'laid back' essentially because it's stuck. A lot of folks I know who come there from other places say this. There's a lot of sorting people out by which schools you attended and your country club memberships. I get that DC striver culture can be insufferable, but it's also a powerful black hole that draws people into from all over galaxy (slight exaggeration) and makes them part of the whole, often by incorporating what uniqueness they bring. Baltimore, by contrast, is a place that whimpers along on the reputation of being one of antebellum America's top cities and fairly major port/manufacturing town until roughly 50 years ago, and has since become something of a museum for those ages.

I’m one of the PPs. I think you may have written this (based on your use of the word whimpers) in a way designed to get a rise out of me, but none of this really resonated to me. I consider a lot of towns a lot more laid back than DC, Baltimore one of them—and the one being discussed here.

In regard to the whole “antebellum” thing, it may help you to know neither I (or anyone I know from the city) is really fixated on the pre-Civil War history of the city. If we’re hanging onto anything, it’s mostly the culture represented in the musical Hairspray.

I'm almost positive any answer could be better here. What you need to do is tell me what the next act is. Laid back to many of us is an obvious cover for resting on its laurels. And don't give me this B.S. about Hairspray. Waters himself said ten years ago he wasn't going to Hunfest since everyone with an actual beehive in Baltimore was now in a nursing home. I imagine most of those folks are in the ground by now.

And it's funny you dismiss the fact that there was a real antebellum glory here and that it, like other successes, cripples the place. Do Faulkner's writings vaporize if they arrive within half-a-mile of Northern Parkway? Past really is present, bub. If you were even a little surprised by the recent public revelations about the city's big Quaker philanthropist being a slaveholder, I'd say you've missed a lot. And perhaps if you really need to sort this out, we can discuss it at The Alex Brown or perhaps Robert E. Lee Park, you know, the recently re-named Lake Roland Park?

Oh boy. You didn’t ask a question, just wondered how someone would respond to your comments. I responded, in what I assumed/hoped would make clear there isn’t a lot of defensiveness on my part.

And I am not going to respond further to someone so hostile and arrogant enough to tell me what I “need” to do, I thought OP’s comments were spot-on about toning down rhetoric. Best of luck to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my husband would do it, I would move to Roland Park in a hot second. We have three kids and I am over the constant competitiveness/rat race in the DC area and the transient people. Places like Baltimore are more affordable and people have a real sense of place. I'd like to raise my kids somewhere where their friends don't move every three years and where people are more down to earth.

Don't get stuck on the lack of home appreciation. It's part of the package--that's why it is affordable to live there. Make investments in something other than your home. Also, real cities have crime. Just be aware of it and no where not to go. No one here in DC is driving around the bad parts of NE or SE for fun...you wouldn't do that in Baltimore, Cleveland or Detroit either.

Good luck to you.

I know someone who lives in Roland Park and you are way off in your assessment of it being low key. A lot of very wealthy people live there, and just like wealthy people everywhere, they are committed to keeping their money and influence. It's not a particularly diverse neighborhood.

In my personal experience, the relevant of which is basically the fact I went to one of the big Baltimore prep schools and knew a ton of families from Roland Park and now have friends that own there as well as the fact that I live in DC and have a very stereotypical DC career...the stress levels and competitiveness of even the most “driven” Baltimore person (for lack of a better word) still pales in comparison to those of most DC people I know. There are definitely obnoxious folks in Baltimore—but just totally different levels. I think it has to do with the difference in the industries within the two cities.

This. No matter how well educated you are or how high powered your job (and yes, they exist here), it’s just not cool to be a striver. The ceo of my husband’s company is super low key in person, doesn’t even live in a “super fancy” house and makes 8 figures. We have multiple Nobel prize winners in our neighborhood and they are 100% normal people. It took me about a year to get used to it when we moved from DC. PEople are humble, polite, and not overly showy about status, skills, or money. People don’t brag, it’s a huge social no no.

I’ve has the same experience. The whole hyper competitive parenting culture which is way too prevalent in DC is extremely frowned upon in Baltimore as well. People are very humble and laid back, even if their kids are all stars. Totally different culture up there among middle class and UMC people.

I'd wonder how both PPs respond to the charge that Baltimore is 'laid back' essentially because it's stuck. A lot of folks I know who come there from other places say this. There's a lot of sorting people out by which schools you attended and your country club memberships. I get that DC striver culture can be insufferable, but it's also a powerful black hole that draws people into from all over galaxy (slight exaggeration) and makes them part of the whole, often by incorporating what uniqueness they bring. Baltimore, by contrast, is a place that whimpers along on the reputation of being one of antebellum America's top cities and fairly major port/manufacturing town until roughly 50 years ago, and has since become something of a museum for those ages.

I’m one of the PPs. I think you may have written this (based on your use of the word whimpers) in a way designed to get a rise out of me, but none of this really resonated to me. I consider a lot of towns a lot more laid back than DC, Baltimore one of them—and the one being discussed here.

In regard to the whole “antebellum” thing, it may help you to know neither I (or anyone I know from the city) is really fixated on the pre-Civil War history of the city. If we’re hanging onto anything, it’s mostly the culture represented in the musical Hairspray.

I'm almost positive any answer could be better here. What you need to do is tell me what the next act is. Laid back to many of us is an obvious cover for resting on its laurels. And don't give me this B.S. about Hairspray. Waters himself said ten years ago he wasn't going to Hunfest since everyone with an actual beehive in Baltimore was now in a nursing home. I imagine most of those folks are in the ground by now.

And it's funny you dismiss the fact that there was a real antebellum glory here and that it, like other successes, cripples the place. Do Faulkner's writings vaporize if they arrive within half-a-mile of Northern Parkway? Past really is present, bub. If you were even a little surprised by the recent public revelations about the city's big Quaker philanthropist being a slaveholder, I'd say you've missed a lot. And perhaps if you really need to sort this out, we can discuss it at The Alex Brown or perhaps Robert E. Lee Park, you know, the recently re-named Lake Roland Park?

Oh boy. You didn’t ask a question, just wondered how someone would respond to your comments. I responded, in what I assumed/hoped would make clear there isn’t a lot of defensiveness on my part.

And I am not going to respond further to someone so hostile and arrogant enough to tell me what I “need” to do, I thought OP’s comments were spot-on about toning down rhetoric. Best of luck to you.

Tone policing is what privileged people do when their ideas are revealed to not just be vacuous, but horribly damaging to vast groups of people. There's widespread pain in black Baltimore because the people who are best positioned to remedy the situation insist on falling back on their tired old saws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my husband would do it, I would move to Roland Park in a hot second. We have three kids and I am over the constant competitiveness/rat race in the DC area and the transient people. Places like Baltimore are more affordable and people have a real sense of place. I'd like to raise my kids somewhere where their friends don't move every three years and where people are more down to earth.

Don't get stuck on the lack of home appreciation. It's part of the package--that's why it is affordable to live there. Make investments in something other than your home. Also, real cities have crime. Just be aware of it and no where not to go. No one here in DC is driving around the bad parts of NE or SE for fun...you wouldn't do that in Baltimore, Cleveland or Detroit either.

Good luck to you.

I know someone who lives in Roland Park and you are way off in your assessment of it being low key. A lot of very wealthy people live there, and just like wealthy people everywhere, they are committed to keeping their money and influence. It's not a particularly diverse neighborhood.

In my personal experience, the relevant of which is basically the fact I went to one of the big Baltimore prep schools and knew a ton of families from Roland Park and now have friends that own there as well as the fact that I live in DC and have a very stereotypical DC career...the stress levels and competitiveness of even the most “driven” Baltimore person (for lack of a better word) still pales in comparison to those of most DC people I know. There are definitely obnoxious folks in Baltimore—but just totally different levels. I think it has to do with the difference in the industries within the two cities.

This. No matter how well educated you are or how high powered your job (and yes, they exist here), it’s just not cool to be a striver. The ceo of my husband’s company is super low key in person, doesn’t even live in a “super fancy” house and makes 8 figures. We have multiple Nobel prize winners in our neighborhood and they are 100% normal people. It took me about a year to get used to it when we moved from DC. PEople are humble, polite, and not overly showy about status, skills, or money. People don’t brag, it’s a huge social no no.

I’ve has the same experience. The whole hyper competitive parenting culture which is way too prevalent in DC is extremely frowned upon in Baltimore as well. People are very humble and laid back, even if their kids are all stars. Totally different culture up there among middle class and UMC people.

I'd wonder how both PPs respond to the charge that Baltimore is 'laid back' essentially because it's stuck. A lot of folks I know who come there from other places say this. There's a lot of sorting people out by which schools you attended and your country club memberships. I get that DC striver culture can be insufferable, but it's also a powerful black hole that draws people into from all over galaxy (slight exaggeration) and makes them part of the whole, often by incorporating what uniqueness they bring. Baltimore, by contrast, is a place that whimpers along on the reputation of being one of antebellum America's top cities and fairly major port/manufacturing town until roughly 50 years ago, and has since become something of a museum for those ages.

I’m one of the PPs. I think you may have written this (based on your use of the word whimpers) in a way designed to get a rise out of me, but none of this really resonated to me. I consider a lot of towns a lot more laid back than DC, Baltimore one of them—and the one being discussed here.

In regard to the whole “antebellum” thing, it may help you to know neither I (or anyone I know from the city) is really fixated on the pre-Civil War history of the city. If we’re hanging onto anything, it’s mostly the culture represented in the musical Hairspray.

I'm almost positive any answer could be better here. What you need to do is tell me what the next act is. Laid back to many of us is an obvious cover for resting on its laurels. And don't give me this B.S. about Hairspray. Waters himself said ten years ago he wasn't going to Hunfest since everyone with an actual beehive in Baltimore was now in a nursing home. I imagine most of those folks are in the ground by now.

And it's funny you dismiss the fact that there was a real antebellum glory here and that it, like other successes, cripples the place. Do Faulkner's writings vaporize if they arrive within half-a-mile of Northern Parkway? Past really is present, bub. If you were even a little surprised by the recent public revelations about the city's big Quaker philanthropist being a slaveholder, I'd say you've missed a lot. And perhaps if you really need to sort this out, we can discuss it at The Alex Brown or perhaps Robert E. Lee Park, you know, the recently re-named Lake Roland Park?

Oh boy. You didn’t ask a question, just wondered how someone would respond to your comments. I responded, in what I assumed/hoped would make clear there isn’t a lot of defensiveness on my part.

And I am not going to respond further to someone so hostile and arrogant enough to tell me what I “need” to do, I thought OP’s comments were spot-on about toning down rhetoric. Best of luck to you.

Tone policing is what privileged people do when their ideas are revealed to not just be vacuous, but horribly damaging to vast groups of people. There's widespread pain in black Baltimore because the people who are best positioned to remedy the situation insist on falling back on their tired old saws.

Not OP, but not wanting people to call people in Baltimore “Baltimorons” or “Boosters” with derision is not at all comparable to the tone policing that privileged, mostly white people try to accomplish when calls for social justice are rightly loud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My job is moving fully remote. My DH's job is currently DC-based but is moving to part-time remote after Covid and has a large Baltimore office. We are contemplating moving to Baltimore because we are exhausted by the COL in DC. We love the city a lot and have been here for 15 years, but think we might be ready for a change of pace.

When we look at real estate in Baltimore we get excited -- we can afford so much more house there and even factoring schools, we'd have lots of options in our target neighborhoods. It could be a huge lifestyle upgrade in terms of square footage and other amenities (outdoor space, parking, etc.) and cost us less per month than the mortgage on our current condo.

We also like Baltimore and have spent a lot of time there (DH went to Hopkins) and feel like we could be happy there. Schools are tricky but we are currently zoned for a frustratingly struggling IB school in DC. And in Baltimore, private school might actually be an option because we'd have more money and the schools are less expensive than in DC.

Here's the sticking point: our DC condo continues to appreciate in value and will likely go up even more in the coming years thanks to nearby development. But when we look at Baltimore homes, many of them are selling at or lower than what they sold for 4, 6, 8 years ago. That's so different than the DC market that it scares us, and has us reconsidering this plan altogether. It would be one thing if we could at least guarantee our house would hold value, but the idea of selling for a loss in 10 years is scary -- it is not an inconsiderable percent of our overall assets.

So my question is: would we be crazy to leave our small-ish but aggressively appreciating condo in DC for a much bigger and nicer townhouse or SFH in Baltimore, knowing that it might be a bad investment longterm? Has anyone done anything like this? Are there areas of Baltimore that are a hedge against that kind of depreciation?

Would you move if we told you to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my husband would do it, I would move to Roland Park in a hot second. We have three kids and I am over the constant competitiveness/rat race in the DC area and the transient people. Places like Baltimore are more affordable and people have a real sense of place. I'd like to raise my kids somewhere where their friends don't move every three years and where people are more down to earth.

Don't get stuck on the lack of home appreciation. It's part of the package--that's why it is affordable to live there. Make investments in something other than your home. Also, real cities have crime. Just be aware of it and no where not to go. No one here in DC is driving around the bad parts of NE or SE for fun...you wouldn't do that in Baltimore, Cleveland or Detroit either.

Good luck to you.

I know someone who lives in Roland Park and you are way off in your assessment of it being low key. A lot of very wealthy people live there, and just like wealthy people everywhere, they are committed to keeping their money and influence. It's not a particularly diverse neighborhood.

In my personal experience, the relevant of which is basically the fact I went to one of the big Baltimore prep schools and knew a ton of families from Roland Park and now have friends that own there as well as the fact that I live in DC and have a very stereotypical DC career...the stress levels and competitiveness of even the most “driven” Baltimore person (for lack of a better word) still pales in comparison to those of most DC people I know. There are definitely obnoxious folks in Baltimore—but just totally different levels. I think it has to do with the difference in the industries within the two cities.

This. No matter how well educated you are or how high powered your job (and yes, they exist here), it’s just not cool to be a striver. The ceo of my husband’s company is super low key in person, doesn’t even live in a “super fancy” house and makes 8 figures. We have multiple Nobel prize winners in our neighborhood and they are 100% normal people. It took me about a year to get used to it when we moved from DC. PEople are humble, polite, and not overly showy about status, skills, or money. People don’t brag, it’s a huge social no no.

I’ve has the same experience. The whole hyper competitive parenting culture which is way too prevalent in DC is extremely frowned upon in Baltimore as well. People are very humble and laid back, even if their kids are all stars. Totally different culture up there among middle class and UMC people.

I'd wonder how both PPs respond to the charge that Baltimore is 'laid back' essentially because it's stuck. A lot of folks I know who come there from other places say this. There's a lot of sorting people out by which schools you attended and your country club memberships. I get that DC striver culture can be insufferable, but it's also a powerful black hole that draws people into from all over galaxy (slight exaggeration) and makes them part of the whole, often by incorporating what uniqueness they bring. Baltimore, by contrast, is a place that whimpers along on the reputation of being one of antebellum America's top cities and fairly major port/manufacturing town until roughly 50 years ago, and has since become something of a museum for those ages.

I’m one of the PPs. I think you may have written this (based on your use of the word whimpers) in a way designed to get a rise out of me, but none of this really resonated to me. I consider a lot of towns a lot more laid back than DC, Baltimore one of them—and the one being discussed here.

In regard to the whole “antebellum” thing, it may help you to know neither I (or anyone I know from the city) is really fixated on the pre-Civil War history of the city. If we’re hanging onto anything, it’s mostly the culture represented in the musical Hairspray.

I'm almost positive any answer could be better here. What you need to do is tell me what the next act is. Laid back to many of us is an obvious cover for resting on its laurels. And don't give me this B.S. about Hairspray. Waters himself said ten years ago he wasn't going to Hunfest since everyone with an actual beehive in Baltimore was now in a nursing home. I imagine most of those folks are in the ground by now.

And it's funny you dismiss the fact that there was a real antebellum glory here and that it, like other successes, cripples the place. Do Faulkner's writings vaporize if they arrive within half-a-mile of Northern Parkway? Past really is present, bub. If you were even a little surprised by the recent public revelations about the city's big Quaker philanthropist being a slaveholder, I'd say you've missed a lot. And perhaps if you really need to sort this out, we can discuss it at The Alex Brown or perhaps Robert E. Lee Park, you know, the recently re-named Lake Roland Park?

Oh boy. You didn’t ask a question, just wondered how someone would respond to your comments. I responded, in what I assumed/hoped would make clear there isn’t a lot of defensiveness on my part.

And I am not going to respond further to someone so hostile and arrogant enough to tell me what I “need” to do, I thought OP’s comments were spot-on about toning down rhetoric. Best of luck to you.

Tone policing is what privileged people do when their ideas are revealed to not just be vacuous, but horribly damaging to vast groups of people. There's widespread pain in black Baltimore because the people who are best positioned to remedy the situation insist on falling back on their tired old saws.

I’ll respond to this briefly. It’s on me if I sounded like I was dismissing Baltimore (and Maryland’s) pre- (and post) Civil War history in a way that denied the city’s racist history. I read your comment on the antebellum history of the city in a different light than you intended. But I just wanted to say change in the city is long-overdue. Since you mentioned Hopkins, the medical center’s use of Black people for experimentation is just one of the many horrific examples of racism in the city, racism which is systemic and deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another product of the Baltimore prep world here. It's been interesting reading the last few pages. My own experience is only anecdotal, but for what it's worth, the old money old school world with its focus on Gilman and the Cotillion and Green Spring Valley Hunt Club is a lot smaller and far less dominant than it was 25 years ago, and that in turn was smaller than in the 50s-60s. It's almost entirely gone from Roland Park, which is now your professional UMC neighborhood rather than old money. The world is still there but it carries little weight. Many of the kids left Baltimore, along with the pervasive brain drain. Roland Park has more in common with CC DC, populated by academics and doctors and public health officials. Gilman is less old money and more meritocracy. I can't see how there is pressure to keep up with the Jones unless it's self inflicted. It is very easy to live in Baltimore, in Roland Park and have kids at the privates, and not even notice the old money world.

I would argue there's more of a keeping up with the Jones mentality in Anne Arundel than Baltimore. All that waterfront real estate and wealth is much more conspicuous than anything in Baltimore.

Old Baltimore, whether old money or old working class, is pretty much gone and only survives akin to the old immigrant institutions that people turn up to periodically to celebrate their heritage.

I have kids at Gilman and honestly, the country club crowd is maybe 30 or 40% tops. The rest of us are just working professionals, many of whom are Hopkins connected in some way. I suspect that 20 years ago that percentage may have been larger. And I have to say, the country club crowd is different from the rest of us, but they’re not unkind! Just… different.

Gilman's tuition is nearly $30k per year.

Quit acting like you aren't privileged. That's a higher tuition cost than many in-state universities per year. It is almost 3x the friggin' in-state tuition cost of University of Maryland.

As usual, Baltimore is nice if you live in the extreme wealth bubble. The bubblers are completely obtuse to the extreme privilege they have compared to the rest of the city. Baltimore has soooooooooooo, sooooo many problems because of segregation and wealth disparities, yet as this thread shows, apparently Baltimore is only worth living in IF you keep helping to promulgate the segregation and wealth disparities. Pure hypocrisy.

[Anonymous]

Someone has a big chip on their shoulder.

You've ruined the thread when not even the crime screecher could manage it. It's not about Baltimore anymore, it's whatever your issues are. The mods might as well lock the thread and declare it dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another product of the Baltimore prep world here. It's been interesting reading the last few pages. My own experience is only anecdotal, but for what it's worth, the old money old school world with its focus on Gilman and the Cotillion and Green Spring Valley Hunt Club is a lot smaller and far less dominant than it was 25 years ago, and that in turn was smaller than in the 50s-60s. It's almost entirely gone from Roland Park, which is now your professional UMC neighborhood rather than old money. The world is still there but it carries little weight. Many of the kids left Baltimore, along with the pervasive brain drain. Roland Park has more in common with CC DC, populated by academics and doctors and public health officials. Gilman is less old money and more meritocracy. I can't see how there is pressure to keep up with the Jones unless it's self inflicted. It is very easy to live in Baltimore, in Roland Park and have kids at the privates, and not even notice the old money world.

I would argue there's more of a keeping up with the Jones mentality in Anne Arundel than Baltimore. All that waterfront real estate and wealth is much more conspicuous than anything in Baltimore.

Old Baltimore, whether old money or old working class, is pretty much gone and only survives akin to the old immigrant institutions that people turn up to periodically to celebrate their heritage.

I have kids at Gilman and honestly, the country club crowd is maybe 30 or 40% tops. The rest of us are just working professionals, many of whom are Hopkins connected in some way. I suspect that 20 years ago that percentage may have been larger. And I have to say, the country club crowd is different from the rest of us, but they’re not unkind! Just… different.

Gilman's tuition is nearly $30k per year.

Quit acting like you aren't privileged. That's a higher tuition cost than many in-state universities per year. It is almost 3x the friggin' in-state tuition cost of University of Maryland.

As usual, Baltimore is nice if you live in the extreme wealth bubble. The bubblers are completely obtuse to the extreme privilege they have compared to the rest of the city. Baltimore has soooooooooooo, sooooo many problems because of segregation and wealth disparities, yet as this thread shows, apparently Baltimore is only worth living in IF you keep helping to promulgate the segregation and wealth disparities. Pure hypocrisy.

NP here. I’m a LMC person who lives in Baltimore and I love my city. Kindly eff off with your nonsense about whether Baltimore is worth living in, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my husband would do it, I would move to Roland Park in a hot second. We have three kids and I am over the constant competitiveness/rat race in the DC area and the transient people. Places like Baltimore are more affordable and people have a real sense of place. I'd like to raise my kids somewhere where their friends don't move every three years and where people are more down to earth.

Don't get stuck on the lack of home appreciation. It's part of the package--that's why it is affordable to live there. Make investments in something other than your home. Also, real cities have crime. Just be aware of it and no where not to go. No one here in DC is driving around the bad parts of NE or SE for fun...you wouldn't do that in Baltimore, Cleveland or Detroit either.

Good luck to you.

I know someone who lives in Roland Park and you are way off in your assessment of it being low key. A lot of very wealthy people live there, and just like wealthy people everywhere, they are committed to keeping their money and influence. It's not a particularly diverse neighborhood.

In my personal experience, the relevant of which is basically the fact I went to one of the big Baltimore prep schools and knew a ton of families from Roland Park and now have friends that own there as well as the fact that I live in DC and have a very stereotypical DC career...the stress levels and competitiveness of even the most “driven” Baltimore person (for lack of a better word) still pales in comparison to those of most DC people I know. There are definitely obnoxious folks in Baltimore—but just totally different levels. I think it has to do with the difference in the industries within the two cities.

This. No matter how well educated you are or how high powered your job (and yes, they exist here), it’s just not cool to be a striver. The ceo of my husband’s company is super low key in person, doesn’t even live in a “super fancy” house and makes 8 figures. We have multiple Nobel prize winners in our neighborhood and they are 100% normal people. It took me about a year to get used to it when we moved from DC. PEople are humble, polite, and not overly showy about status, skills, or money. People don’t brag, it’s a huge social no no.

I’ve has the same experience. The whole hyper competitive parenting culture which is way too prevalent in DC is extremely frowned upon in Baltimore as well. People are very humble and laid back, even if their kids are all stars. Totally different culture up there among middle class and UMC people.

I'd wonder how both PPs respond to the charge that Baltimore is 'laid back' essentially because it's stuck. A lot of folks I know who come there from other places say this. There's a lot of sorting people out by which schools you attended and your country club memberships. I get that DC striver culture can be insufferable, but it's also a powerful black hole that draws people into from all over galaxy (slight exaggeration) and makes them part of the whole, often by incorporating what uniqueness they bring. Baltimore, by contrast, is a place that whimpers along on the reputation of being one of antebellum America's top cities and fairly major port/manufacturing town until roughly 50 years ago, and has since become something of a museum for those ages.

I’m one of the PPs. I think you may have written this (based on your use of the word whimpers) in a way designed to get a rise out of me, but none of this really resonated to me. I consider a lot of towns a lot more laid back than DC, Baltimore one of them—and the one being discussed here.

In regard to the whole “antebellum” thing, it may help you to know neither I (or anyone I know from the city) is really fixated on the pre-Civil War history of the city. If we’re hanging onto anything, it’s mostly the culture represented in the musical Hairspray.

I'm almost positive any answer could be better here. What you need to do is tell me what the next act is. Laid back to many of us is an obvious cover for resting on its laurels. And don't give me this B.S. about Hairspray. Waters himself said ten years ago he wasn't going to Hunfest since everyone with an actual beehive in Baltimore was now in a nursing home. I imagine most of those folks are in the ground by now.

And it's funny you dismiss the fact that there was a real antebellum glory here and that it, like other successes, cripples the place. Do Faulkner's writings vaporize if they arrive within half-a-mile of Northern Parkway? Past really is present, bub. If you were even a little surprised by the recent public revelations about the city's big Quaker philanthropist being a slaveholder, I'd say you've missed a lot. And perhaps if you really need to sort this out, we can discuss it at The Alex Brown or perhaps Robert E. Lee Park, you know, the recently re-named Lake Roland Park?

The irony to your post is that antebellum Baltimore had the largest free black population in America (about 25k free blacks versus 2k slaves out of a city population of 200k). The mercantile Baltimore of 1860 was pretty much gone by 1900, replaced by an industrial city where the vast majority had little in common with antebellum Baltimore, due to the large waves of immigration and internal migration. And most black Baltimoreans are descendants of migrants from the South that started arriving in large numbers during WWII to work in the war industries. Those industries have now long since faded away, transforming Baltimore once more. The historical weight on Baltimore is not Faulkerian for the antebellum world you might be thinking of never really existed in Baltimore, it was no Richmond nor Charleston. It is the late Victorian to 1950s heavy industry and manufacturing era that left the greatest mark on Baltimore and its decline is what had the strongest psychological impact. And Baltimore is not unique to this, for the same decline marked many American cities.

The city did have a strong pro southern flavor for a long time but people too often forget that was never the majority. Just as people too quickly ignore that Hopkins' wealth didn't derive from slavery (he may have owned, maybe, up to five male slaves at any given point) or that he himself made clear his new hospital was to serve all people, not just whites. The rush to judge while turning a blind eye to the parts of the past that doesn't fit the narrative is too often a hallmark of today's angry woke world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Neighborhoods in the city of Baltimore have pretty stagnant pricing, but suburban neighborhoods just over the county line (with highly rated public schools) have gone up in price. Our neighborhood certainly has.

I don't see how it's a prudent move if safe bet RE remains stagnant there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another product of the Baltimore prep world here. It's been interesting reading the last few pages. My own experience is only anecdotal, but for what it's worth, the old money old school world with its focus on Gilman and the Cotillion and Green Spring Valley Hunt Club is a lot smaller and far less dominant than it was 25 years ago, and that in turn was smaller than in the 50s-60s. It's almost entirely gone from Roland Park, which is now your professional UMC neighborhood rather than old money. The world is still there but it carries little weight. Many of the kids left Baltimore, along with the pervasive brain drain. Roland Park has more in common with CC DC, populated by academics and doctors and public health officials. Gilman is less old money and more meritocracy. I can't see how there is pressure to keep up with the Jones unless it's self inflicted. It is very easy to live in Baltimore, in Roland Park and have kids at the privates, and not even notice the old money world.

I would argue there's more of a keeping up with the Jones mentality in Anne Arundel than Baltimore. All that waterfront real estate and wealth is much more conspicuous than anything in Baltimore.

Old Baltimore, whether old money or old working class, is pretty much gone and only survives akin to the old immigrant institutions that people turn up to periodically to celebrate their heritage.

I have kids at Gilman and honestly, the country club crowd is maybe 30 or 40% tops. The rest of us are just working professionals, many of whom are Hopkins connected in some way. I suspect that 20 years ago that percentage may have been larger. And I have to say, the country club crowd is different from the rest of us, but they’re not unkind! Just… different.

Gilman's tuition is nearly $30k per year.

Quit acting like you aren't privileged. That's a higher tuition cost than many in-state universities per year. It is almost 3x the friggin' in-state tuition cost of University of Maryland.

As usual, Baltimore is nice if you live in the extreme wealth bubble. The bubblers are completely obtuse to the extreme privilege they have compared to the rest of the city. Baltimore has soooooooooooo, sooooo many problems because of segregation and wealth disparities, yet as this thread shows, apparently Baltimore is only worth living in IF you keep helping to promulgate the segregation and wealth disparities. Pure hypocrisy.

You have know idea how much PP is paying for Gilman. We pay 23000 for our kid, there are kids in his class who’s parents literally pay nothing. List price of school, like college has nothing to do with how much people actually pay. My brother in law went to a big four Baltimore school his parents paid about 1/6 of full rate. I don’t know why people don’t get this when mentioning private school rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another product of the Baltimore prep world here. It's been interesting reading the last few pages. My own experience is only anecdotal, but for what it's worth, the old money old school world with its focus on Gilman and the Cotillion and Green Spring Valley Hunt Club is a lot smaller and far less dominant than it was 25 years ago, and that in turn was smaller than in the 50s-60s. It's almost entirely gone from Roland Park, which is now your professional UMC neighborhood rather than old money. The world is still there but it carries little weight. Many of the kids left Baltimore, along with the pervasive brain drain. Roland Park has more in common with CC DC, populated by academics and doctors and public health officials. Gilman is less old money and more meritocracy. I can't see how there is pressure to keep up with the Jones unless it's self inflicted. It is very easy to live in Baltimore, in Roland Park and have kids at the privates, and not even notice the old money world.

I would argue there's more of a keeping up with the Jones mentality in Anne Arundel than Baltimore. All that waterfront real estate and wealth is much more conspicuous than anything in Baltimore.

Old Baltimore, whether old money or old working class, is pretty much gone and only survives akin to the old immigrant institutions that people turn up to periodically to celebrate their heritage.

I have kids at Gilman and honestly, the country club crowd is maybe 30 or 40% tops. The rest of us are just working professionals, many of whom are Hopkins connected in some way. I suspect that 20 years ago that percentage may have been larger. And I have to say, the country club crowd is different from the rest of us, but they’re not unkind! Just… different.

Gilman's tuition is nearly $30k per year.

Quit acting like you aren't privileged. That's a higher tuition cost than many in-state universities per year. It is almost 3x the friggin' in-state tuition cost of University of Maryland.

As usual, Baltimore is nice if you live in the extreme wealth bubble. The bubblers are completely obtuse to the extreme privilege they have compared to the rest of the city. Baltimore has soooooooooooo, sooooo many problems because of segregation and wealth disparities, yet as this thread shows, apparently Baltimore is only worth living in IF you keep helping to promulgate the segregation and wealth disparities. Pure hypocrisy.

You have know idea how much PP is paying for Gilman. We pay 23000 for our kid, there are kids in his class who’s parents literally pay nothing. List price of school, like college has nothing to do with how much people actually pay. My brother in law went to a big four Baltimore school his parents paid about 1/6 of full rate. I don’t know why people don’t get this when mentioning private school rates.

Why don't you send your kid to a Baltimore public high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another product of the Baltimore prep world here. It's been interesting reading the last few pages. My own experience is only anecdotal, but for what it's worth, the old money old school world with its focus on Gilman and the Cotillion and Green Spring Valley Hunt Club is a lot smaller and far less dominant than it was 25 years ago, and that in turn was smaller than in the 50s-60s. It's almost entirely gone from Roland Park, which is now your professional UMC neighborhood rather than old money. The world is still there but it carries little weight. Many of the kids left Baltimore, along with the pervasive brain drain. Roland Park has more in common with CC DC, populated by academics and doctors and public health officials. Gilman is less old money and more meritocracy. I can't see how there is pressure to keep up with the Jones unless it's self inflicted. It is very easy to live in Baltimore, in Roland Park and have kids at the privates, and not even notice the old money world.

I would argue there's more of a keeping up with the Jones mentality in Anne Arundel than Baltimore. All that waterfront real estate and wealth is much more conspicuous than anything in Baltimore.

Old Baltimore, whether old money or old working class, is pretty much gone and only survives akin to the old immigrant institutions that people turn up to periodically to celebrate their heritage.

I have kids at Gilman and honestly, the country club crowd is maybe 30 or 40% tops. The rest of us are just working professionals, many of whom are Hopkins connected in some way. I suspect that 20 years ago that percentage may have been larger. And I have to say, the country club crowd is different from the rest of us, but they’re not unkind! Just… different.

Gilman's tuition is nearly $30k per year.

Quit acting like you aren't privileged. That's a higher tuition cost than many in-state universities per year. It is almost 3x the friggin' in-state tuition cost of University of Maryland.

As usual, Baltimore is nice if you live in the extreme wealth bubble. The bubblers are completely obtuse to the extreme privilege they have compared to the rest of the city. Baltimore has soooooooooooo, sooooo many problems because of segregation and wealth disparities, yet as this thread shows, apparently Baltimore is only worth living in IF you keep helping to promulgate the segregation and wealth disparities. Pure hypocrisy.

You have know idea how much PP is paying for Gilman. We pay 23000 for our kid, there are kids in his class who’s parents literally pay nothing. List price of school, like college has nothing to do with how much people actually pay. My brother in law went to a big four Baltimore school his parents paid about 1/6 of full rate. I don’t know why people don’t get this when mentioning private school rates.

I am the PP being referred to, and yes I get financial aid and pay considerably less than 30K. Not sure what that has to do with anything, though.

[Anonymous]

OP, I suggest you start another thread for specific discussion of Baltimore neighborhoods, if you wish. Then if the Baltimore haters come by with their usual generalized crap we can have their rantings swiftly deleted for being off topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another product of the Baltimore prep world here. It's been interesting reading the last few pages. My own experience is only anecdotal, but for what it's worth, the old money old school world with its focus on Gilman and the Cotillion and Green Spring Valley Hunt Club is a lot smaller and far less dominant than it was 25 years ago, and that in turn was smaller than in the 50s-60s. It's almost entirely gone from Roland Park, which is now your professional UMC neighborhood rather than old money. The world is still there but it carries little weight. Many of the kids left Baltimore, along with the pervasive brain drain. Roland Park has more in common with CC DC, populated by academics and doctors and public health officials. Gilman is less old money and more meritocracy. I can't see how there is pressure to keep up with the Jones unless it's self inflicted. It is very easy to live in Baltimore, in Roland Park and have kids at the privates, and not even notice the old money world.

I would argue there's more of a keeping up with the Jones mentality in Anne Arundel than Baltimore. All that waterfront real estate and wealth is much more conspicuous than anything in Baltimore.

Old Baltimore, whether old money or old working class, is pretty much gone and only survives akin to the old immigrant institutions that people turn up to periodically to celebrate their heritage.

I have kids at Gilman and honestly, the country club crowd is maybe 30 or 40% tops. The rest of us are just working professionals, many of whom are Hopkins connected in some way. I suspect that 20 years ago that percentage may have been larger. And I have to say, the country club crowd is different from the rest of us, but they’re not unkind! Just… different.

Gilman's tuition is nearly $30k per year.

Quit acting like you aren't privileged. That's a higher tuition cost than many in-state universities per year. It is almost 3x the friggin' in-state tuition cost of University of Maryland.

As usual, Baltimore is nice if you live in the extreme wealth bubble. The bubblers are completely obtuse to the extreme privilege they have compared to the rest of the city. Baltimore has soooooooooooo, sooooo many problems because of segregation and wealth disparities, yet as this thread shows, apparently Baltimore is only worth living in IF you keep helping to promulgate the segregation and wealth disparities. Pure hypocrisy.

You have know idea how much PP is paying for Gilman. We pay 23000 for our kid, there are kids in his class who’s parents literally pay nothing. List price of school, like college has nothing to do with how much people actually pay. My brother in law went to a big four Baltimore school his parents paid about 1/6 of full rate. I don’t know why people don’t get this when mentioning private school rates.

I am the PP being referred to, and yes I get financial aid and pay considerably less than 30K. Not sure what that has to do with anything, though.

I was responding to the person who called your privileged just because your kid goes to a private school, thus insinuating that you were out of touch with reality.