Best Post I’ve Seen in a Month on DL/Hybrid Choice

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:We would choose hybrid if the non-in person days had online instruction. We both work and I can work from home. Sadly, DL provides more direct instruction to my third grader and will allow me to spend more time doing my job than if he was at school 2 days a week but I had to facilitate school the other three days. We are choosing DL for that reason alone, nothing to do with fear of the disease. A pediatric pulmonologist told me at my daughter’s asthma appointment that there’s no medical reason not to send a healthy child, even a child who is healthy but for asthma. For us, it all comes down to how many hours will my child have direct instruction (for both quality of education and me having to work reasons).


FCPS is purchasing two pretty decent online learning resources for the asynchronous days—ST Math and Imagine Learning for reading. The asynchronous days will be much robust. I’d switch back to in-person. Let’s face it—we’re all going virtual probably by Columbus Day as the numbers tick back up and flu season begins. Might as well get her some in-person learning for several weeks.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We would choose hybrid if the non-in person days had online instruction. We both work and I can work from home. Sadly, DL provides more direct instruction to my third grader and will allow me to spend more time doing my job than if he was at school 2 days a week but I had to facilitate school the other three days. We are choosing DL for that reason alone, nothing to do with fear of the disease. A pediatric pulmonologist told me at my daughter’s asthma appointment that there’s no medical reason not to send a healthy child, even a child who is healthy but for asthma. For us, it all comes down to how many hours will my child have direct instruction (for both quality of education and me having to work reasons).


FCPS is purchasing two pretty decent online learning resources for the asynchronous days—ST Math and Imagine Learning for reading. The asynchronous days will be much robust. I’d switch back to in-person. Let’s face it—we’re all going virtual probably by Columbus Day as the numbers tick back up and flu season begins. Might as well get her some in-person learning for several weeks.


+1 I don’t even know if we will get in person at all. Numbers are ticking upwards, and they aren’t currently accounting for the 4th or an extended Phase 3 open.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:A friend took a lot of time to write this and I think it makes total sense. It’s quite long, but worth sharing & reading.

From Joe Morice, daughters in 8th & 10th grade in our Centreville Pyramid: (if you search for him on Facebook, you can find this post and share it directly from his page)

To our fellow FCPS families, this is it gang, 5 days until the 2 days in school vs. 100% virtual decision. Let’s talk it out, in my traditional mammoth TL/DR form.

Like all of you, I’ve seen my feed become a flood of anxiety and faux expertise. You’ll get no presumption of expertise here. This is how I am looking at and considering this issue and the positions people have taken in my feed and in the hundred or so FCPS discussion groups that have popped up. The lead comments in quotes are taken directly from my feed and those boards. Sometimes I try to rationalize them. Sometimes I’m just punching back at the void.

Full disclosure, we initially chose the 2 days option and are now having serious reservations. As I consider the positions and arguments I see in my feed, these are where my mind goes. Of note, when I started working on this piece at 12:19 PM today the COVID death tally in the United States stood at 133,420.

“My kids want to go back to school.”

I challenge that position. I believe what the kids desire is more abstract. I believe what they want is a return to normalcy. They want their idea of yesterday. And yesterday isn’t on the menu.

“I want my child in school so they can socialize.”

This was the principle reason for our 2 days decision. As I think more on it though, what do we think ‘social’ will look like? There aren’t going to be any lunch table groups, any lockers, any recess games, any study halls, any sitting next to friends, any talking to people in the hallway, any dances. All of that is off the menu. So, when we say that we want the kids to benefit from the social experience, what are we deluding ourselves into thinking in-building socialization will actually look like in the Fall?

“My kid is going to be left behind.”

Left behind who? The entire country is grappling with the same issue, leaving all children in the same quagmire. Who exactly would they be behind? I believe the rhetorical answer to that is “They’ll be behind where they should be,” to which I’ll counter that “where they should be” is a fictional goal post that we as a society have taken as gospel because it maps to standardized tests which are used to grade schools and counties as they chase funding.

“Classrooms are safe.”

At the current distancing guidelines from FCPS middle and high schools would have no more than 12 people (teachers + students) in a classroom (I acknowledge this number may change as FCPS considers the Commonwealth’s 3 ft with a mask vs. 6 ft position, noting that FCPS is all mask regardless of the distance). For the purpose of this discussion we’ll say classes run 45 minutes.

I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”

100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:

“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”
“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”
“Oh hell no.”
“No absolutely not.”
“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”
“Something of that size would be virtual.”

We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. For me this is as close to a ‘kill shot’ argument as there is in this entire debate. How do we work from home because buildings with recycled air are not safe, because we don’t trust other people to not spread the virus, and then with the same breath send our children into buildings?

“Children only die .0016 of the time.”

First, conceding we’re an increasingly morally bankrupt society, but when did we start talking about children’s lives, or anyone’s lives, like this? This how the villain in movies talks about mortality, usually 10-15 minutes before the good guy kills him.

If you’re in this camp, and I acknowledge that many, many people are, I’m asking you to consider that number from a slightly different angle.

FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on. So, let’s agree to do this: stop presenting this as a data point. If this is your argument, I challenge you to have courage equal to your conviction. Go ahead, plant a flag on the internet and say, “Only 302 children will die.” No one will. That’s the kind action on social media that gets you fired from your job. And I trust our social media enclave isn’t so careless and irresponsible with life that it would even, for even a millisecond, enter any of your minds to make such an argument.

Considered another way: You’re presented with a bag with 189,000 $1 bills. You’re told that in the bag are 302 random bills, they look and feel just like all the others, but each one of those bills will kill you. Do you take the money out of the bag?

Same argument, applied to the 12,487 teachers in FCPS (per Wikipedia), using the ‘children’s multiplier’ of .0016 (all of us understanding the adult mortality rate is higher). That’s 20 teachers. That’s the number you’re talking about. It’s very easy to sit behind a keyboard and diminish and dismiss the risk you’re advocating other people assume. Take a breath and think about that.

If you want to advocate for 2 days a week, look, I’m looking for someone to convince me. But please, for the love of God, drop things like this from your argument. Because the people I know who’ve said things like this, I know they’re better people than this. They’re good people under incredible stress who let things slip out as their frustration boils over. So, please do the right thing and move on from this, because one potential outcome is that one day, you’re going to have to stand in front of St. Peter and answer for this, and that’s not going to be conversation you enjoy.

“Hardly any kids get COVID.”

(Deep sigh) Yes, that is statistically true as of this writing. But it is a cherry-picked argument because you’re leaving out an important piece.

One can reasonably argue that, due to the school closures in March, children have had the least EXPOSURE to COVID. In other words, closing schools was the one pandemic mitigation action we took that worked. There can be no discussion of the rate of diagnosis within children without also acknowledging they were among our fastest and most quarantined people. Put another way, you cannot cite the effect without acknowledging the cause.

“The flu kills more people every year.”

(Deep sigh). First of all, no, it doesn’t. Per the CDC, United States flu deaths average 20,000 annually. COVID, when I start writing here today, has killed 133,420 in six months.

And when you mention the flu, do you mean the disease that, if you’re suspected of having it, everyone, literally everyone in the country tells you stay the f- away from other people? You mean the one where parents are pretty sure their kids have it but send them to school anyway because they have a meeting that day, the one that every year causes massive f-ing outbreaks in schools because schools are petri dishes and it causes kids to miss weeks of school and leaves them out of sports and band for a month? That one? Because you’re right - the flu kills people every year. It does, but you’re ignoring the why. It’s because there are people who are a--holes who don’t care about infecting other people. In that regard it’s a perfect comparison to COVID.

“Almost everyone recovers.”

You’re confusing “release from the hospital” and “no longer infected” with “recovered.” I’m fortunate to only know two people who have had COVID. One my age and one my dad’s age. The one my age described it as “absolute hell” and although no longer infected cannot breathe right. The one my dad’s age was in the hospital for 13 weeks, had to have a trach ring put in because she could no longer be on a ventilator, and upon finally getting home and being faced with incalculable time in rehab told my mother, “I wish I had died.”

While I’m making every effort to reach objectivity, on this particular point, you don’t know what the f- you’re talking about.

“If people get sick, they get sick.”

First, you mistyped. What you intended to say was “If OTHER people get sick, they get sick.” And shame on you.

“I’m not going to live my life in fear.”

You already live your life in fear. For your health, your family’s health, your job, your retirement, terrorists, extremists, one political party or the other being in power, the new neighbors, an unexpected home repair, the next sunrise. What you meant to say was, “I’m not prepared to add ANOTHER fear,” and I’ve got news for you: that ship has sailed. It’s too late. There are two kinds of people, and only two: those that admit they’re afraid, and those that are lying to themselves about it.

As to the fear argument, fear is the reason you wait up when your kids stay out late, it’s the reason you tell your kids not to dive in the shallow water, to look both ways before crossing the road. Fear is the respect for the wide world that we teach our children. Except in this instance, for reasons no one has been able to explain to me yet.

“FCPS leadership sucks.”

I will summarize my view of the School Board thusly: if the 12 of you aren’t getting into a room together because it represents a risk, don’t tell me it’s OK for our kids. I understand your arguments, that we need the 2 days option for parents who can’t work from home, kids who don’t have internet or computer access, kids who needs meals from the school system, kids who need extra support to learn, and most tragically for kids who are at greater risk of abuse by being home. All very serious, all very real issues, all heartbreaking. No argument.

But you must first lead by example. Because you’re failing when it comes to optics. All your meetings are online. What our children see is all of you on a Zoom telling them it’s OK for them to be exactly where you aren’t. I understand you’re not PR people, but you really should think about hiring some.

“I talked it over with my kids.”
Let’s put aside for a moment the concept of adults effectively deferring this decision to children, the same children who will continue to stuff things into a full trash can rather than change it out. Yes, those hygienic children.

Listen, my 15 year old daughter wants a sport car, which she’s not getting next year because it would be dangerous to her and to others. Those kinds of decisions are our job. We step in and decide as parents, we don’t let them expose themselves to risks because their still developing and screen addicted brains narrow their understanding of cause and effect.

We as parents and adults serve to make difficult decisions. Sometimes those are in the form of lessons, where we try to steer kids towards the right answer and are willing to let them make a mistake in the hopes of teaching better decision making the next time around. This is not one of those moments. The stakes are too high for that. This is a “the adults are talking” moment. Kids are not mature enough for this moment. That is not an attack on your child. It is a broad statement about all children. It is true of your children and it was true when we were children. We need to be doing that thinking here, and “Johnny wants to see Bobby at school” cannot be the prevailing element in the equation.

“The teachers need to do their job.”
How is it that the same society which abruptly shifted to virtual students only three months ago, and offered glowing endorsements of teachers stating, “we finally understand how difficult your job is,” has now shifted to “screw you, do your job.” There are myriad problems with that position but for the purposes of this piece let’s simply go with, “You’re not looking for a teacher, you’re looking for the babysitter you feel your property tax payment entitles you to.”

“Teachers have a greater chance to being killed by a car than they do of dying from COVID.”

(Eye roll) Per the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), the U.S. see approximately 36,000 auto fatalities a year. Again, there have been 133,420 COVID deaths in the United States through 12:09 July 10, 2020. So no, they do not have a great chance of being killed in a car accident.

And, if you want to take the actual environment into consideration, the odds of a teacher being killed in a car accident in their classroom, you know, the environment we’re actually talking about, that’s right around 0%.

“If the grocery store workers can be onsite what are the teachers afraid of?”

(Deep breath) A grocery store worker, who absolutely risks exposure, has either six feet of space or a plexiglass shield between them and individual adult customers who can grasp their own mortality whose transactions can be completed in moments, in a 40,000 SF space.

A teacher is with 11 ‘customers’ who have not an inkling what mortality is, for 45 minutes, in a 675 SF space, six times a day.

Just stop.

“Teachers are choosing remote because they don’t want to work.”

(Deep breaths) Many teachers are opting to be remote. That is not a vacation. They’re requesting to do their job at a safer site. Just like many, many people who work in buildings with recycled air have done. And likely the building you’re not going into has a newer and better serviced air system than our schools.

Of greater interest to me is the number of teachers choosing the 100% virtual option for their children. The people who spend the most time in the buildings are the same ones electing not to send their children into those buildings. That’s something I pay attention to.

“I wasn’t prepared to be a parent 24/7” and “I just need a break.”

I truly, deeply respect that honesty. Truth be told, both arguments have crossed my mind. Pre COVID, I routinely worked from home 1 – 2 days a week. The solace was nice. When I was in the office, I had an actual office, a room with a door I could close, where I could focus. During the quarantine that hasn’t always been the case. I’ve been frustrated, I’ve been short, I’ve gone to just take a drive and get the hell away for a moment and been disgusted when one of the kids sees me and asks me to come for a ride, robbing me of those minutes of silence. You want to hear silence. I get it. I really, really do.

Here’s another version of that, admittedly extreme. What if one of our kids becomes one of the 302? What’s that silence going to sound like? What if you have one of those matted frames where you add the kid’s school picture every year? What if you don’t get to finish the pictures?

“What does your gut tell you to do?”

Shawn and I have talked ad infinitum about all of these and other points. Two days ago, at mid-discussion I said, “Stop, right now, gut answer, what is it,” and we both said, “virtual.”

A lot of the arguments I hear people making for the 2 days sound like we’re trying to talk ourselves into ignoring our instincts, they are almost exclusively, “We’re doing 2 days, but…”. There’s a fantastic book by Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear, which I’ll minimize for you thusly: your gut instinct is a hardwired part of your brain and you should listen to it. In the introduction he talks about elevators, and how, of all living things, humans are the only ones that would voluntarily get into a soundproof steel box with a potential predator just so they could skip a flight of stairs.

I keep thinking that the 2 days option is the soundproof steel box. I welcome, damn, beg, anyone to convince me otherwise.

At the time I started writing at 12:09 PM, 133,420 Americans had died from COVID. Upon completing this draft at 7:04 PM, that number rose to 133,940.

520 Americans died of COVID while I was working on this. In seven hours.

The length of a school day.


He addressed every single argument except the most important one. Some of us have jobs and need to work. Not all of us can afford a nanny.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We would choose hybrid if the non-in person days had online instruction. We both work and I can work from home. Sadly, DL provides more direct instruction to my third grader and will allow me to spend more time doing my job than if he was at school 2 days a week but I had to facilitate school the other three days. We are choosing DL for that reason alone, nothing to do with fear of the disease. A pediatric pulmonologist told me at my daughter’s asthma appointment that there’s no medical reason not to send a healthy child, even a child who is healthy but for asthma. For us, it all comes down to how many hours will my child have direct instruction (for both quality of education and me having to work reasons).


FCPS is purchasing two pretty decent online learning resources for the asynchronous days—ST Math and Imagine Learning for reading. The asynchronous days will be much robust. I’d switch back to in-person. Let’s face it—we’re all going virtual probably by Columbus Day as the numbers tick back up and flu season begins. Might as well get her some in-person learning for several weeks.


Where did you hear this? No one has given me an answer when I ask about the software?
Anonymous
So I went to verify Joe Morice's LinkedIn profile and it says he works for the National Contract Management Association. Did he change that? If I Google his name with NEA it brings up a number of documents with his name. One says he's a senior procurement specialist that was paid $135,843 in 2019.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:So I went to verify Joe Morice's LinkedIn profile and it says he works for the National Contract Management Association. Did he change that? If I Google his name with NEA it brings up a number of documents with his name. One says he's a senior procurement specialist that was paid $135,843 in 2019.


You are being a creep. It’s a guy with an opinion on the internet, not a conspiracy.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I went to verify Joe Morice's LinkedIn profile and it says he works for the National Contract Management Association. Did he change that? If I Google his name with NEA it brings up a number of documents with his name. One says he's a senior procurement specialist that was paid $135,843 in 2019.


You are being a creep. It’s a guy with an opinion on the internet, not a conspiracy.



DP. There is NOTHING creepy about verifying sources. If you think that is creepy then you're not very smart.
Anonymous
Is this really the best thing you've read on this complex and highly individualized issue?

It boils down to "I'm deeply insecure about the choice my family is making and must convince everyone else it's the right one and they should do the same thing. Also I don't understand math."
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: This post going viral is a beautiful case study in the way misinformation spreads. This guy, grabs the number .0016 from the internet NOT understanding it is actually .0016 PERCENT. It is 3.02 kids, not 302. And that’s assuming all 189,000 students test positive. It’s really a fatality rate of less than one kid.

As soon as I got to the 3rd paragraph I knew his math had to be wrong bc if kids are not dropping dead all over the country. I’m very disturbed how many of my friends believed this number and shared this on social media.

And if you say 1 kid dying is still too much, you better rethink leaving your house bc life is full of risks all day.


Excellent post. Can you post this as a comment to all your friends’ FB post repeating this guy? Also mention he works for NEA. I have been sitting on my hands all day but I hate FB conflict so I don’t want to post.


Thank you, I tried and a few people just posted that I was missing the whole point and there is so much more to his commentary than the number. I say his miscalculation detracts from his message but apparently I’m in the minority. The worst is he now knows of the mistake but won’t fix it. I need a social media break.


I’m not even bothering correcting people. It’s their choice and they can use whatever data or “data” they want to help them arrive at their decision, just as whatever we decide to do for our children Using whatever information we find is our choice.


Honestly if this makes people choose DL then I hope they don't notice the mistake. The less who choose hybrid the better!





My take-away is ... 3 kids. Whether his math is wrong or not, we're talking about 3 kids. That is 3 kids too many. You people are complete losers if you don't think 3 kids is worthy of more precautions.


3 kids die everyday from downing accidents. EVERY day. I bet you still take your kids swimming.




Going to the pool is a choice. Going to school is not a choice. People insisting that public schools open because those parents don't have child care is a dumb reason for 3 or more kids to die in every school.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I went to verify Joe Morice's LinkedIn profile and it says he works for the National Contract Management Association. Did he change that? If I Google his name with NEA it brings up a number of documents with his name. One says he's a senior procurement specialist that was paid $135,843 in 2019.


You are being a creep. It’s a guy with an opinion on the internet, not a conspiracy.



DP. There is NOTHING creepy about verifying sources. If you think that is creepy then you're not very smart.


Absolutely. It's hard to take anything at face value anymore.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Is this really the best thing you've read on this complex and highly individualized issue?

It boils down to "I'm deeply insecure about the choice my family is making and must convince everyone else it's the right one and they should do the same thing. Also I don't understand math."

+1
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:So I went to verify Joe Morice's LinkedIn profile and it says he works for the National Contract Management Association. Did he change that? If I Google his name with NEA it brings up a number of documents with his name. One says he's a senior procurement specialist that was paid $135,843 in 2019.


Yes he did change it. He had NEA yesterday - and he is listed as working there as well. Damn- good pay for nothing!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: This post going viral is a beautiful case study in the way misinformation spreads. This guy, grabs the number .0016 from the internet NOT understanding it is actually .0016 PERCENT. It is 3.02 kids, not 302. And that’s assuming all 189,000 students test positive. It’s really a fatality rate of less than one kid.

As soon as I got to the 3rd paragraph I knew his math had to be wrong bc if kids are not dropping dead all over the country. I’m very disturbed how many of my friends believed this number and shared this on social media.

And if you say 1 kid dying is still too much, you better rethink leaving your house bc life is full of risks all day.


Excellent post. Can you post this as a comment to all your friends’ FB post repeating this guy? Also mention he works for NEA. I have been sitting on my hands all day but I hate FB conflict so I don’t want to post.


Thank you, I tried and a few people just posted that I was missing the whole point and there is so much more to his commentary than the number. I say his miscalculation detracts from his message but apparently I’m in the minority. The worst is he now knows of the mistake but won’t fix it. I need a social media break.


I’m not even bothering correcting people. It’s their choice and they can use whatever data or “data” they want to help them arrive at their decision, just as whatever we decide to do for our children Using whatever information we find is our choice.


Honestly if this makes people choose DL then I hope they don't notice the mistake. The less who choose hybrid the better!





My take-away is ... 3 kids. Whether his math is wrong or not, we're talking about 3 kids. That is 3 kids too many. You people are complete losers if you don't think 3 kids is worthy of more precautions.


3 kids die everyday from downing accidents. EVERY day. I bet you still take your kids swimming.




Going to the pool is a choice. Going to school is not a choice. People insisting that public schools open because those parents don't have child care is a dumb reason for 3 or more kids to die in every school.


You are even worse at math than the guy who wrote it.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:

Going to the pool is a choice. Going to school is not a choice. People insisting that public schools open because those parents don't have child care is a dumb reason for 3 or more kids to die in every school.


Can you please explain how you came up with the "3 or more kids"?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: This post going viral is a beautiful case study in the way misinformation spreads. This guy, grabs the number .0016 from the internet NOT understanding it is actually .0016 PERCENT. It is 3.02 kids, not 302. And that’s assuming all 189,000 students test positive. It’s really a fatality rate of less than one kid.

As soon as I got to the 3rd paragraph I knew his math had to be wrong bc if kids are not dropping dead all over the country. I’m very disturbed how many of my friends believed this number and shared this on social media.

And if you say 1 kid dying is still too much, you better rethink leaving your house bc life is full of risks all day.


Excellent post. Can you post this as a comment to all your friends’ FB post repeating this guy? Also mention he works for NEA. I have been sitting on my hands all day but I hate FB conflict so I don’t want to post.


Thank you, I tried and a few people just posted that I was missing the whole point and there is so much more to his commentary than the number. I say his miscalculation detracts from his message but apparently I’m in the minority. The worst is he now knows of the mistake but won’t fix it. I need a social media break.


I’m not even bothering correcting people. It’s their choice and they can use whatever data or “data” they want to help them arrive at their decision, just as whatever we decide to do for our children Using whatever information we find is our choice.


Honestly if this makes people choose DL then I hope they don't notice the mistake. The less who choose hybrid the better!





My take-away is ... 3 kids. Whether his math is wrong or not, we're talking about 3 kids. That is 3 kids too many. You people are complete losers if you don't think 3 kids is worthy of more precautions.


3 kids die everyday from downing accidents. EVERY day. I bet you still take your kids swimming.




Going to the pool is a choice. Going to school is not a choice. People insisting that public schools open because those parents don't have child care is a dumb reason for 3 or more kids to die in every school.


Going to school (in person) IS a choice this year and really every year as you can always choose to homeschool. And other school districts have realized that school also serves a child care function and are operating from the standpoint that they will open 5 days a week with an online option for those who want it - why haven’t we?
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