SAT "adversity" adjustment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holistic admissions colleges already factor this stuff in. Now they do it with census tract data, noting whether a high school is Title 1/how many students qualify for free or reduced meals.

SAT is doing this to make it easier for colleges - who won't have to compute this on their own - and try to make themselves indispensable to an admissions offices.

This was what a I was thinking. Harvard and Williams and Rice and Oberlin will still “craft a class”. And already actively seek to admit disadvantage kids by meeting 100% of need and engaging in Quetbridge and considering URM and first gen. But huge state Us want to make admissions easier than having to consider and weigh these external factors.

My first though is this hurts affluent URM kids. If you are AA and dad is a doctor and you live in a wealthy suburb and have a great education, the sky is the limit because you get lumped in with inner city kids on diversity admissions. This makes that harder.

You do not get lumped in with inner city kids at most Ivy’s. You get lumped in with white kids because admissions does not believe you should be given a break. One of the consequences of this is that most second gen college URM kids at Ivy’s come from private day or boarding schools where you can be lumped in with white kids and still get in. The black kids coming from suburban schools are largely African or first gen. They don’t get lumped in with white kids.

You’re kidding, right? High performing minority kids are the HOLY GRAIL for universities, no matter the background.

You are wrong. You are not a URM and you have not applied a child to college. You are probably a bitter white person. Any URM parent of a top # 50 school kid who is not first gen will tell you this. Schools are looking for first gens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The adversity score is on a scale of 1-100, and takes into account the following:

Neighborhood environment:
Crime rate
Poverty rate
Housing value
Vacancy rate

Family environment:
Median income
Single parent
Education level
ESL

High school environment:
Undermatching
Curricular rigor
Free lunch rate
AP opportunity

Is this for the school address or the student's address? I'm thinking about Wilson for example; it's in a wealthy part of town but serves a lot of economically disadvantaged students.

The index will measure both the home and school addresses.

So kids from the same high school get different adversity scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The adversity score is on a scale of 1-100, and takes into account the following:

Neighborhood environment:
Crime rate
Poverty rate
Housing value
Vacancy rate

Family environment:
Median income
Single parent
Education level
ESL

High school environment:
Undermatching
Curricular rigor
Free lunch rate
AP opportunity

Is this for the school address or the student's address? I'm thinking about Wilson for example; it's in a wealthy part of town but serves a lot of economically disadvantaged students.

The index will measure both the home and school addresses.

So kids from the same high school get different adversity scores?

Yes. I poor kid busing into a top school in a wealthy neighborhood will get a different score than an in-boundary kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The adversity score is on a scale of 1-100, and takes into account the following:

Neighborhood environment:
Crime rate
Poverty rate
Housing value
Vacancy rate

Family environment:
Median income
Single parent
Education level
ESL

High school environment:
Undermatching
Curricular rigor
Free lunch rate
AP opportunity

Is this for the school address or the student's address? I'm thinking about Wilson for example; it's in a wealthy part of town but serves a lot of economically disadvantaged students.

The index will measure both the home and school addresses.

So kids from the same high school get different adversity scores?

Yes. Because school boundaries can incorporate neighborhoods of different SES status. Look at a school like West Po.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe how many of you affluent advantaged people are now online rallying against this. Have you no shame? As you no empathy? Have you no understanding? This is not designed to hurt your kids, but to help other kids.

+1 it’s like oh I’m so sad I can afford to have a nice house and neighborhood why are these poor students who are dealing with violence and poverty taking our deserved spots?? LOL. Don’t worry your kids will be just fine with all the social capital you have given them by living in your “nice” homogenous neighborhood.

What about regular old middle class people whose kids go to a nice, but not spectacular suburban high school. I can't afford SAT tutoring for my kid, she will have to do the free online prep, but they won't get the benefit of attending a school with a low adversity score.

[Anonymous]

DCUM-land off to look at second and third homes in charming but economically disadvantaged areas. There must be something outside Charlottesville....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The adversity score is on a scale of 1-100, and takes into account the following:

Neighborhood environment:
Crime rate
Poverty rate
Housing value
Vacancy rate

Family environment:
Median income
Single parent
Education level
ESL

High school environment:
Undermatching
Curricular rigor
Free lunch rate
AP opportunity

Is this for the school address or the student's address? I'm thinking about Wilson for example; it's in a wealthy part of town but serves a lot of economically disadvantaged students.

The index will measure both the home and school addresses.

So kids from the same high school get different adversity scores?

For schools like to TJ and Blair, you are going to get a range of scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe how many of you affluent advantaged people are now online rallying against this. Have you no shame? As you no empathy? Have you no understanding? This is not designed to hurt your kids, but to help other kids.

+1 it’s like oh I’m so sad I can afford to have a nice house and neighborhood why are these poor students who are dealing with violence and poverty taking our deserved spots?? LOL. Don’t worry your kids will be just fine with all the social capital you have given them by living in your “nice” homogenous neighborhood.

What about regular old middle class people whose kids go to a nice, but not spectacular suburban high school. I can't afford SAT tutoring for my kid, she will have to do the free online prep, but they won't get the benefit of attending a school with a low adversity score.

screwed.

[Anonymous]

Suddenly, Wakefield High School is looking terrific!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe how many of you affluent advantaged people are now online rallying against this. Have you no shame? As you no empathy? Have you no understanding? This is not designed to hurt your kids, but to help other kids.

+1 it’s like oh I’m so sad I can afford to have a nice house and neighborhood why are these poor students who are dealing with violence and poverty taking our deserved spots?? LOL. Don’t worry your kids will be just fine with all the social capital you have given them by living in your “nice” homogenous neighborhood.

What about regular old middle class people whose kids go to a nice, but not spectacular suburban high school. I can't afford SAT tutoring for my kid, she will have to do the free online prep, but they won't get the benefit of attending a school with a low adversity score.

What adversity has she faced?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe how many of you affluent advantaged people are now online rallying against this. Have you no shame? As you no empathy? Have you no understanding? This is not designed to hurt your kids, but to help other kids.

+1 it’s like oh I’m so sad I can afford to have a nice house and neighborhood why are these poor students who are dealing with violence and poverty taking our deserved spots?? LOL. Don’t worry your kids will be just fine with all the social capital you have given them by living in your “nice” homogenous neighborhood.

What about regular old middle class people whose kids go to a nice, but not spectacular suburban high school. I can't afford SAT tutoring for my kid, she will have to do the free online prep, but they won't get the benefit of attending a school with a low adversity score.

screwed.

nope big fish small pond will still apply. Frankly I think thats the way to go. Get out of the rat race of this area, NYC burbs, West Chicago or SF. Just go somewhere average and normal your kid will be valedictorian and can go to a great school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

First, that suggests that SAT takers will have to disclose a lot of personal information, which is stupid. How in the world could the CB know whether that self-reported information is accurate? Why should anyone trust the CB to have accurate information about the economics of the students' neighborhood or anything else.

This whole thing is ill-conceived and astonishingly arrogant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and College Board in general is the great undiscovered scam on the American educational system. This is an interesting idea, but I don't trust them to have thought it through or have the professional capacity to execute this in the appropriate way, if there is one. Plus colleges already look at context. And what will it mean for magnet program kids?
Kahn academy has partnered with the College Board to offer free college prep and this may be the reason that the last two years of SAT scores are out of sync with previous, requiring down-curving perfectly good performance. Word has it they have made recent changes to the SAT without the proper consultation of psychometricians and the recent rounds of testing are unreliable. The article says College Board will send the adversity score to colleges but not tell the family what score they are sending. Is that legal?

I meant to add that I think the Kahn academy prep is great and does a lot to level the playing field as far as making prep available to those who can't or don't want to spend on expensive private prep. But it may be a reason that they are resorting to downcurving the test as the only way to get separation on the now dumbed-down test. Who would take an instrument and deliberately make it less precise??

It is KHAN ACADEMY - run by a Muslim Bangladeshi Immigrant - SALMAN KHAN!

Calling it "Kahn" makes it look like some White Jewish dude came up with it. What a blatant attempt of cultural appropriation. Give credit to the person who has made this site possible. How f**king ignorent and racists are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and College Board in general is the great undiscovered scam on the American educational system. This is an interesting idea, but I don't trust them to have thought it through or have the professional capacity to execute this in the appropriate way, if there is one. Plus colleges already look at context. And what will it mean for magnet program kids?
Kahn academy has partnered with the College Board to offer free college prep and this may be the reason that the last two years of SAT scores are out of sync with previous, requiring down-curving perfectly good performance. Word has it they have made recent changes to the SAT without the proper consultation of psychometricians and the recent rounds of testing are unreliable. The article says College Board will send the adversity score to colleges but not tell the family what score they are sending. Is that legal?

I meant to add that I think the Kahn academy prep is great and does a lot to level the playing field as far as making prep available to those who can't or don't want to spend on expensive private prep. But it may be a reason that they are resorting to downcurving the test as the only way to get separation on the now dumbed-down test. Who would take an instrument and deliberately make it less precise??

It is KHAN ACADEMY - run by a Muslim Bangladeshi Immigrant - SALMAN KHAN!

Calling it "Kahn" makes it look like some White Jewish dude came up with it. What a blatant attempt of cultural appropriation. Give credit to the person who has made this site possible. How f**king ignorent and racists are you?

Point taken but it was probably just misspelling rather than any intention to be racist or appropriate credit for Cohen/ Kahns

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aside from people’s (understandable) desire to have the most opportunity available to their kids, I think a lot of disagreement on measures like these stems from disagreement about what the purposes of college admission are. Is admission a reward for the best academic performance in high school? Is admission a vehicle for finding the people who will achieve success later in life with the college’s help? Is admission a way to identify people who will become leaders in their communities and train them? Is admission a way to curate a community of students with diverse interests and backgrounds?

These purposes differ by college and often colleges are considering a mix of the above. There is often frustration from students and their parents where they see students with lower stats admitted to a college. But that views college admission as only serving the first purpose. And even then, academic achievement should—in the views of many—be assessed in context, including the resources a student had available to them and the obstacles they faced in achieving success.

+1