My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents, if you believe that your child is gifted and belongs to the AAP, please appeal. Our DD was rejected with a 99% Cogat 7 years ago, and it turned out that her GBRS was only 9. It made no sense to us because she was so bright, hardworking, eager to learn new things, made us sign her up for additional math classes, etc. We signed her up for WISC, gathered some good work samples, certificates she received, asked her piano teacher to write a recommendation, and appealed. She got in.

She is now an all-As freshman at TJ, does 99% of her homework at school or on the bus because she is so quick. Never had a tutor, and we've never helped with her homework either. I see her doing homework at home just about 2-3 times a month. She says that TJ is too easy and works 3 times a week teaching math. I still can't believe she was initially rejected from the AAP.

This is very similar to my neighbor’s son. He was in pool, but not originally accepted. His mother appealed and he was accepted. Did well in AAP, went to TJ, then on to a top STEM school. He is now in grad school at MIT. But in second grade, they passed him over for AAP, even though he was in the pool. Crazy.

Awesome to hear of his success!

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand what the committee is looking at when they reject kids with high test scores and high GBRS.

The work samples? As far as I can tell, both the selection of the work samples and their quality is largely a product of a kid’s teacher. Teachers who insist on quality work, retain that work, and put time into selecting a sample are going to deliver a much better sample for their kids. We have had some teachers under which our kids have done beautiful writing work and others under which the same kids have written total crap.

The teacher comments? Again, this is largely a function of how much effort the teacher is willing to put in to the application process and whether or not they take the time to get to know their students. If the kids had a high GBRS, obviously the teacher likes them and thinks they will succeed in AAP regardless of the specifics of their commentary.

It’s crazy to make the process so dependent on a kid’s teacher when you already have multiple objective data points that demonstrate a kid is a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Are you suggesting that FCPS is somehow tracking the performance of kids in AAP, comparing that back to their 2nd grade CogAt scores, and then making determinations for admission based on that?

This is not something they are doing.

+1 It would be interesting if they studied that, but they aren't. Anecdotally, the kids I know who got into AAP via parent referral are struggling more than those who were in-pool. Mostly, the issue is that they can't keep up with the math.

Yes this. I know 4 kids who are struggling with AAP math in 3rd grade and all were not in pool. All are strong in language arts but the math has been based for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand what the committee is looking at when they reject kids with high test scores and high GBRS.

The work samples? As far as I can tell, both the selection of the work samples and their quality is largely a product of a kid’s teacher. Teachers who insist on quality work, retain that work, and put time into selecting a sample are going to deliver a much better sample for their kids. We have had some teachers under which our kids have done beautiful writing work and others under which the same kids have written total crap.

The teacher comments? Again, this is largely a function of how much effort the teacher is willing to put in to the application process and whether or not they take the time to get to know their students. If the kids had a high GBRS, obviously the teacher likes them and thinks they will succeed in AAP regardless of the specifics of their commentary.

It’s crazy to make the process so dependent on a kid’s teacher when you already have multiple objective data points that demonstrate a kid is a good fit.

To some extent I agree with this. However, I never have felt the teacher liked my child, and I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the GBRS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The work samples? As far as I can tell, both the selection of the work samples and their quality is largely a product of a kid’s teacher. Teachers who insist on quality work, retain that work, and put time into selecting a sample are going to deliver a much better sample for their kids. We have had some teachers under which our kids have done beautiful writing work and others under which the same kids have written total crap.

Agree. The only fair way to get work samples would be to give the same templates out to every school and then have them administer the work samples as a 40 minute test with no teacher input or interference. Some teachers are otherwise submitting works that are the product of several weeks, teacher feedback, teacher editing, and revisions, while other teachers are grabbing whatever homework assignment they can find. There isn't enough consistency in the process of producing work samples to make it a meaningful metric.

At the most, good work samples should help kids below the bar get in. It shouldn't be used to keep kids over the threshold out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The work samples? As far as I can tell, both the selection of the work samples and their quality is largely a product of a kid’s teacher. Teachers who insist on quality work, retain that work, and put time into selecting a sample are going to deliver a much better sample for their kids. We have had some teachers under which our kids have done beautiful writing work and others under which the same kids have written total crap.

Agree. The only fair way to get work samples would be to give the same templates out to every school and then have them administer the work samples as a 40 minute test with no teacher input or interference. Some teachers are otherwise submitting works that are the product of several weeks, teacher feedback, teacher editing, and revisions, while other teachers are grabbing whatever homework assignment they can find. There isn't enough consistency in the process of producing work samples to make it a meaningful metric.

At the most, good work samples should help kids below the bar get in. It shouldn't be used to keep kids over the threshold out.

I really like your suggestion and think this is a fair way to deal with work samples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here - if this isn't truly a program for gifted children, how does Virginia get past the law that states it must provide services for children who are in fact gifted and don't make it into advanced academics? My DS (only in 1st grade) scored well on his NNAT and was not prepped. Of course I think he is gifted, but he is also disorganized, messy and not particularly people-pleasing. I'm assuming this will hurt him and he wont' get in. Then what do I do?

FCPS has already shown the state that they offer services: Level 2, 3, and 4 and that the have an identification process. The state requirements are that they offer the services, not that every gifted child receives them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Except AAP is not some specialized program for gifted kids. It’s AAP.

Except AAP is what FCPS uses to meet the gifted mandate set forth by the Virginia DOE. Thus it by definition is intended to serve the needs of gifted kids.

The gifted mandate is worthless. They could and many districts do serve the gifted population with a weekly 1-hr pullout. AAP is designed to meet different needs.

Yes! Thank you.

[Anonymous]

My DS score:
NNAT - 160
COGAT - 143
We obtained the screening file (excellent review by his teacher)
Rejected

DS has been extremely advanced in Math, science, social studies and history. His samples that we submitted was extremely difficult for what a normal 2nd grader would do. DS had always been identified as a gifted till Grade 1. Grade 2 has been extremely boring for him and his school samples that were given were draw something and write a creative explanation. DS is very high in factual and inferring reasoning, and his drawing abilities and thinking imaginatively is not that good. When I ask him to think beyond his normal imagination he says his mind tells him whether it is possible or not and he gets back to factual way of thinking and inferring (more data, memory, facts based approach).

His school samples that were submitted were extremely poor in nature where he was asked to think and write a creative story. But his home sample were real life questions where he used science and math (whatever he knew) to answer. The comparison happened on a home sample which was extremely advanced science/math and school sample which was an imaginative story writing which is not DS’s strength.

His teacher believes he is gifted in science math social studies and factual based reasoning.

We are getting his WISC tests, giving more factual based samples he made in school, to prove his knowledge and attention to details and his inferring and thinking skills.

We are at a loss as to what to do for this gifted child. He says school is super boring and they always wants him to draw pictures and write stories.

DS runs a YouTube channel for experiments, he composed his music (different tunes), performs (singing) in multiple languages. He has got awards like young scientist award, outstanding student award in karate, musician award. We had submitted all this and still got rejected. AART teacher thinks they think home samples are at a level that cannot be done by a 2nd grader. All his other home samples are at the same level. I really don’t know how to convince that he is exceptionally talented. Hoping for a good WISC score.

Any help from anyone in this situation would be apprceiated

[Anonymous]

Your DS sounds very similar to my kid, and mine is still bored in AAP. Your kid should have gotten in. I would write a letter explaining his math needs. Perhaps you can add details about how the AAP center participates in whatever math contests or science olympiad or whatever else and why your child needs access to those activities. If your base school doesn't have 3rd grade advanced math, I would also mention that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS score:
NNAT - 160
COGAT - 143
We obtained the screening file (excellent review by his teacher)
Rejected

DS has been extremely advanced in Math, science, social studies and history. His samples that we submitted was extremely difficult for what a normal 2nd grader would do. DS had always been identified as a gifted till Grade 1. Grade 2 has been extremely boring for him and his school samples that were given were draw something and write a creative explanation. DS is very high in factual and inferring reasoning, and his drawing abilities and thinking imaginatively is not that good. When I ask him to think beyond his normal imagination he says his mind tells him whether it is possible or not and he gets back to factual way of thinking and inferring (more data, memory, facts based approach).

His school samples that were submitted were extremely poor in nature where he was asked to think and write a creative story. But his home sample were real life questions where he used science and math (whatever he knew) to answer. The comparison happened on a home sample which was extremely advanced science/math and school sample which was an imaginative story writing which is not DS’s strength.

His teacher believes he is gifted in science math social studies and factual based reasoning.

We are getting his WISC tests, giving more factual based samples he made in school, to prove his knowledge and attention to details and his inferring and thinking skills.

We are at a loss as to what to do for this gifted child. He says school is super boring and they always wants him to draw pictures and write stories.

DS runs a YouTube channel for experiments, he composed his music (different tunes), performs (singing) in multiple languages. He has got awards like young scientist award, outstanding student award in karate, musician award. We had submitted all this and still got rejected. AART teacher thinks they think home samples are at a level that cannot be done by a 2nd grader. All his other home samples are at the same level. I really don’t know how to convince that he is exceptionally talented. Hoping for a good WISC score.

Any help from anyone in this situation would be apprceiated

It sounds as though your son has a talent for math and science and is presently advanced in those areas. Could the school put him in advanced math/science classes and keep him on level in other areas?

You want what’s best for your child. It’s good to be advanced in some subjects, but for AAP, I believe they are looking for kids who show that they think in a creative manner and are able to see connections between concepts that are not obvious, a level up from being advanced in a subject.

[Anonymous]

TJ > Ivy > rejected for AAP. We appealed and won. The schools want some low key obedient kids in the slow classes. They are also prejudiced against siblings and twins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ > Ivy > rejected for AAP. We appealed and won. The schools want some low key obedient kids in the slow classes. They are also prejudiced against siblings and twins.

What do you mean prejudged? Are you implying it hurts you if you have an older sibling in aap or a twin?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ > Ivy > rejected for AAP. We appealed and won. The schools want some low key obedient kids in the slow classes. They are also prejudiced against siblings and twins.

What do you mean prejudged? Are you implying it hurts you if you have an older sibling in aap or a twin?

It’s simply sour grapes and grasping at straws. Pay no attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ > Ivy > rejected for AAP. We appealed and won. The schools want some low key obedient kids in the slow classes. They are also prejudiced against siblings and twins.

I think this is the explanation for some of the rejected kids with high scores. They want to keep some of the gifted kids in gen ed and they look for the "best" well-behaved successful ones for this (not my "bored, disruptive" gifted kid). The rest of this post is gobbledygook.