My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat

[Anonymous]

Parents, if you believe that your child is gifted and belongs to the AAP, please appeal. Our DD was rejected with a 99% Cogat 7 years ago, and it turned out that her GBRS was only 9. It made no sense to us because she was so bright, hardworking, eager to learn new things, made us sign her up for additional math classes, etc. We signed her up for WISC, gathered some good work samples, certificates she received, asked her piano teacher to write a recommendation, and appealed. She got in.

She is now an all-As freshman at TJ, does 99% of her homework at school or on the bus because she is so quick. Never had a tutor, and we've never helped with her homework either. I see her doing homework at home just about 2-3 times a month. She says that TJ is too easy and works 3 times a week teaching math. I still can't believe she was initially rejected from the AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Candidates need solid evidence that they are qualified beyond prepping and parental polishing. Reviewers are getting better at seeing through the bs. Prepping has poisoned the pond.

Well, that's a crock of BS. Parents who understand the system well enough to prep and polish their kids also understand how to construct a good AAP application packet. The kids getting excluded are more likely the non-preppers with parents who don't understand the process as well and just assumed that their smart kids would get in. Submitting work samples from home, detailed parent letters, letters of recommendation, etc. all look much more like an over-invested parent who groomed a child to be picked for AAP.

I've worked with a lot of AAP kids, and most of them are neither very smart nor very advanced. Most of them seem like typical above-average UMC children.

+1 to all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents, if you believe that your child is gifted and belongs to the AAP, please appeal. Our DD was rejected with a 99% Cogat 7 years ago, and it turned out that her GBRS was only 9. It made no sense to us because she was so bright, hardworking, eager to learn new things, made us sign her up for additional math classes, etc. We signed her up for WISC, gathered some good work samples, certificates she received, asked her piano teacher to write a recommendation, and appealed. She got in.

She is now an all-As freshman at TJ, does 99% of her homework at school or on the bus because she is so quick. Never had a tutor, and we've never helped with her homework either. I see her doing homework at home just about 2-3 times a month. She says that TJ is too easy and works 3 times a week teaching math. I still can't believe she was initially rejected from the AAP.

This is very similar to my neighbor’s son. He was in pool, but not originally accepted. His mother appealed and he was accepted. Did well in AAP, went to TJ, then on to a top STEM school. He is now in grad school at MIT. But in second grade, they passed him over for AAP, even though he was in the pool. Crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's no consistency or transparency to the process. Most kids in AAP are only slightly above average, yet they're rejecting kids who are probably gifted. It makes no sense at all.

This. Completely ridiculous to have AAP at all.

Maybe just have it for the top 2% of kids? MAYBE.

Some elementary school have over half the kids in AAP.

This is a caste system that hurts other kids. period.

+1

[Anonymous]

I am one of the 99% posters from earlier. I spoke to our AART, and she said DC's GBRS was 3 F and 1 C. She said the work samples probably weren't strong enough, as they didn't have a lot of writing samples and didn't have any good math samples (!). DC's biggest strength is math. I plan to appeal and include better work samples.

[Anonymous]

Even a composite score of 140 can be a fluke, and I think FCPS knows this more than most! I wouldn’t be surprised if they are using a lot of data from previous years to inform their decisions. My guess is that COGAT has been useless in actually identifying kids who are doing well in AAP.

Again, a 140 on COGAT can be a fluke and it doesn’t even mean anything other than doing well on that test. It’s not an IQ test. And prepping voids results. It is easily prepped. If you don’t believe me, google it!

It’s not a gifted program though. It’s a program for advanced academics. It moved a little faster than general ed. So FCPS (and parents) want kids who can actually tolerate the pace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even a composite score of 140 can be a fluke, and I think FCPS knows this more than most! I wouldn’t be surprised if they are using a lot of data from previous years to inform their decisions. My guess is that COGAT has been useless in actually identifying kids who are doing well in AAP.

Again, a 140 on COGAT can be a fluke and it doesn’t even mean anything other than doing well on that test. It’s not an IQ test. And prepping voids results. It is easily prepped. If you don’t believe me, google it!

It’s not a gifted program though. It’s a program for advanced academics. It moved a little faster than general ed. So FCPS (and parents) want kids who can actually tolerate the pace.

Are you suggesting that FCPS is somehow tracking the performance of kids in AAP, comparing that back to their 2nd grade CogAt scores, and then making determinations for admission based on that?

This is not something they are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even a composite score of 140 can be a fluke, and I think FCPS knows this more than most! I wouldn’t be surprised if they are using a lot of data from previous years to inform their decisions. My guess is that COGAT has been useless in actually identifying kids who are doing well in AAP.

Again, a 140 on COGAT can be a fluke and it doesn’t even mean anything other than doing well on that test. It’s not an IQ test. And prepping voids results. It is easily prepped. If you don’t believe me, google it!

It’s not a gifted program though. It’s a program for advanced academics. It moved a little faster than general ed. So FCPS (and parents) want kids who can actually tolerate the pace.

OK, so they are using a test that FCPS thinks is meaningless? Then what do you think they are actually basing their decisions on? Magic 8 ball?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Are you suggesting that FCPS is somehow tracking the performance of kids in AAP, comparing that back to their 2nd grade CogAt scores, and then making determinations for admission based on that?

This is not something they are doing.

+1 It would be interesting if they studied that, but they aren't. Anecdotally, the kids I know who got into AAP via parent referral are struggling more than those who were in-pool. Mostly, the issue is that they can't keep up with the math.

[Anonymous]

FCPS can't make a system that isn't preppable. If they're mostly using teacher observations, the kids who seem the most gifted are the ones who've been taking enrichment classes or have tutors and already know the material being taught. These are the same kids who are prepping for the tests. It's not hard for parents who want their kids in AAP to crack the system.

While the CogAT is an imperfect tool, it seems more fair than any other measurement they have. If the kid has a high test score, even if prepped, as well as high scores on the DRA, MRA, or iready, there's no reason to exclude that kid from AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS can't make a system that isn't preppable. If they're mostly using teacher observations, the kids who seem the most gifted are the ones who've been taking enrichment classes or have tutors and already know the material being taught. These are the same kids who are prepping for the tests. It's not hard for parents who want their kids in AAP to crack the system.

While the CogAT is an imperfect tool, it seems more fair than any other measurement they have. If the kid has a high test score, even if prepped, as well as high scores on the DRA, MRA, or iready, there's no reason to exclude that kid from AAP.

Creativity and out-of-the-box thinking isn't taught by enrichment classes or tutors. Remember we're talking about 1st and 2nd graders here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Creativity and out-of-the-box thinking isn't taught by enrichment classes or tutors. Remember we're talking about 1st and 2nd graders here.

Very few kids even in AAP are displaying truly out-of-the box thinking or creativity beyond what would be expected for almost any kid. Most kids are receiving high GBRS for coming across as hardworking, motivated students who are academically ahead and learn easily. Enrichment and tutors can produce this type of profile.

[Anonymous]

NP here - if this isn't truly a program for gifted children, how does Virginia get past the law that states it must provide services for children who are in fact gifted and don't make it into advanced academics? My DS (only in 1st grade) scored well on his NNAT and was not prepped. Of course I think he is gifted, but he is also disorganized, messy and not particularly people-pleasing. I'm assuming this will hurt him and he wont' get in. Then what do I do?

[Anonymous]

Op here. I just got our packet and he has glowing comments from teacher - 3 consistent and 1 frequently. The 1 frequently is for motivation to succeed. Even the 1 frequently has really positive personal comments.

I was expecting a poor GBRS and it is great.

The work samples are fine, nothing crazy impressive but he is 7 years old.

We will appeal.

[Anonymous]

I would try to schedule a meeting with the AART. The school thinks your kid belongs in AAP, too, so they may have some useful advice for appealing.

It's confusing when your child is rejected with high test scores and a high GBRS (been there, done that), but it's also much more likely that your child will get in on appeal. I'd point out in your appeal letter that based on the GBRS, the teachers who work with your child every day think that he belongs in AAP.