How has MoCo declined since you’ve lived here?

[Anonymous]

No why should we move? we were here in MoCo first. Fun fact, when you move to another country, state or city, you should adapt to the social norms and cultural customs of the people living there. This fact is applied where-ever you go in the world. People in other places don’t always accommodate you because you are American. It is not unreasonable to expect that your neighbors don’t cram 3-5 families in a 3 bedroom or 4 bedroom home, in fact that is illegal for housing codes as well as first safety. Reporting people in such spaces is reasonable. It is not unreasonable to expect that your taxes which pay for public schools are not going toward the decline of the public schools in your neighborhood. It is not unreasonable to expect the county to place a memoratorium on tax dollars supporting to help illegal migrants with their legal woes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No why should we move? we were here in MoCo first. Fun fact, when you move to another country, state or city, you should adapt to the social norms and cultural customs of the people living there. This fact is applied where-ever you go in the world. People in other places don’t always accommodate you because you are American. It is not unreasonable to expect that your neighbors don’t cram 3-5 families in a 3 bedroom or 4 bedroom home, in fact that is illegal for housing codes as well as first safety. Reporting people in such spaces is reasonable. It is not unreasonable to expect that your taxes which pay for public schools are not going toward the decline of the public schools in your neighborhood. It is not unreasonable to expect the county to place a memoratorium on tax dollars supporting to help illegal migrants with their legal woes.

But the politicians in MoCo want this and so it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm a white uber liberal lawyer who grew up in MoCo and lives here. My job is in the anti-poverty/social justice arena.

If every time a person mentions a poverty-related issue someone screams racism, then we will never actually discuss the poverty-related issues.

Thanks for your perspective -- that's interesting. In terms of older people and selling their homes, aren't people willing to buy as-is for a lower price? I think older people, at least in our part of MoCo (Bethesda) are getting hit by increasing property taxes since their property values continue to go up. At the same time, developers are willing to buy any home and just tear it down.. as-is is certainly fine for them, and I can see people who are priced out the market willing to buy a fixer-upper if it means they can afford to buy.

Houses in Bethesda aren’t necessarily increasing in value. Ours decreased in value about 10 years ago and had been pretty flat ever since.
The county tries to raise our property taxes by raising the rates and then by trying to say that our houses are worth more than they are.
The county apparently doesn’t like dealing with reality but our homes are not selling for that much here. We live in a modest Bethesda neighborhood near the beltway. Neighborhoods near the city, metro and country clubs are worth more I’ll bet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I win in terms of length of time in MoCo. My parents moved to Wheaton in 1959, when I was 1. Our first neighborhood was a mix of working class families (with the Dads having completed high school) and professional middle class families (with Dads having completed college). The homes were all single family 3-bedroom, 1-bath homes with a car in every driveway.

By 1970, we moved into an upper-middle class Wheaton neighborhood, with five- and six-bedroom houses, walking distance to a country club and near the horse stables. Our parents were all college grads, and kids all took tennis and golf lessons at the club (and the more adventurous of us took riding lessons). Some went to private school, but most went to the perfectly decent public school.

My parents still live in that house, now almost 50 years later. Multiple (probably illegal) immigrant families double and triple up, and there are five and six cars in front of many houses. The country club is long gone, for sure. The high school is more than 70% FARMS, a very high percentage ESOL, and is rated dead last in the county, at a 3. Because of that, you can pick up a 3,000 SF house for around $400k. The nearby strip shopping center is full of trash, empty liquor bottles, and sometimes dirty diapers.

So my area of MoCo has gone downhill, waaaaaay downhill.

Let me guess. You're white?

Wow, I'm soooo sorry your wealthy Country Club suburb has been infested by brown people.
And notice how PP describes her ideal MoCo as full of single (probably white) family homes where DADS (as opposed to Moms) were educated and brought home the bacon. Were there wives all June Cleavers who stayed home vacuuming in pearls?

Why don't we build a wall and keep all the immigrants and brown people out and keep your 1950s fantasy world in? #MAGA.
And you people think Elrich is the NIMBY. smh.

First, I described it as the Dads working because that was what it was like when my parents moved in 50 years ago. It's. It is not what I would have wanted, or want now. Assumption on your part.

Second, stop with the "infested with brown people" racist nonsense. It's a lie liberals keep repeating rather than face the truth - that an influx of poor, unskilled people unable to support themselves and reliant on taxpayer support to feed their kids is coming at a big cost to Americans living near where they settle.

Third, I am sympathetic to the elderly people who bought these homes 50+ years ago and have seen a big portion of the equity dry up just as they are about to need it for assisted living. Why are you so sympathetic to illegal immigrants, and not elderly Americans who worked all their lives and now find their neighborhoods in decline?

This is important to explore.

I'm a white uber liberal lawyer who grew up in MoCo and lives here. My job is in the anti-poverty/social justice arena.

If every time a person mentions a poverty-related issue someone screams racism, then we will never actually discuss the poverty-related issues.

Yes, the children born here are citizens who are entitled to an education and social services (if/when necessary). But we need to realize that their parents' immigration status typically precludes them from working jobs above the table and paying taxes. Yes, they work; but they typically work jobs that don't pay taxes (or some might work with fake SS#s).

A possible solution is legal assistance to address their status. Another option is immigration reform.

But we (including anti-poverty advocates) rarely get to those in the weeds solutions because we get distracted with racism.

The overcrowding issues are problematic. We had 5 families living in a ranch style house in my prior neighborhood in 20906. 5 couples; at least 8 kids based on the # of cribs and toddler beds I counted when I walked through the open house. While I admired their pluck and self-sufficiency, there are obvious negative impacts on the neighborhood as well as the kids living inside the home (as evidenced by the multiple calls to the police for domestic situations). This house wasn't an outlier; there were dozens of such homes in my old neighborhood by the time we moved out. Ten years later, the entire neighborhood and schools have declined dramatically. They crossed a tipping point. And there is an impact on surrounding shopping centers which struggle to find anchor stores and restaurants precisely because of the racial and socioeconomics (anchor chains rely heavily on that data).

The elderly in MoCo have a dramatically declining standard of living. They are on fixed incomes and barely getting by thanks to increasing medical bills. Many are only able to remain housed thanks to support from their kids. Many have lost their homes. Many can't afford to sustain their homes, yet they can't afford to downsize (leave the home that's paid for) because they can't afford rent or a modest place in leisureworld because their home (while paid for) has fallen into such disrepair it will be tough to sell---or will sell for far less than its worth. Remember: moco has a serious pinhole leak issue with its pipes in the housing stock where blue collar and lower paid white collar elderly people reside.

I could go on, but I suppose the point is this: let's stop pretending that moco hasn't changed. It has. Dramatically. Instead of complaining, and instead of ignoring, let's discuss and identify solutions that improve the situation for everyone. That means we will need to discuss crime, too.

Thank you. I am the PP to whom you responded, and also a poster who has been called a "f*cking a-hole racist" for describing the problem I see in my parents' neighborhood. They bought a large house (well, large for the times....5-bedrooms and close to 3000sf) in what was decidedly an UMC neighborhood 50 years ago. The public school, while not the top in the County, was perfectly fine, and kids almost all went all to college. Most parents were college grad themselves.

Now, they have multiple families squeezed into single houses, half-a-dozen old beaters parked in front, and the school is 70% FARMS with a large contingent ESOL. Worst school in the county, and rated a 3. The problem is that the elderly people, including my parents and their elderly neighbors of 50 years, have watched their property values drop, just as they are nearing the time they need the equity for assisted living. Some of these facilities - we've explored - require deposits of as much as $500,000, which had (largely) been in their home equity.

But now, these houses, similar models which currently sell for $700k - $800k in Rockville, have seen their value drop from around $650K to the 400s. (One sold last year for $395k, but it had been a rental for a few years, and was probably trashed.)

It is disingenuous to pretend that elderly people, who have worked hard all their lives, are not paying a steep price when uneducated, poor, and non-English speaking move in en masse, triple up in neighboring houses, and turn the adjacent schools to majority FARMS and cause a consequent drop in property values. What I object to is the venom that so many liberals (not you, obviously) spew forth when the negative ramifications of unchecked immigration of poor people is brought up - especially on elderly living on Social Security and modest (not government) pensions.

But this is what Hans Riemer wants so its what we get. Seriously - check out his Facebook page.
He wants to pass more legislation to make it easier for people in MoCo to create accessory apartments on their property.
You might want to try to explain some of this stuff to him:

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2018/11/ann_arbor_accessory_apartments.html

[Anonymous]

Accessory apartments is the first step, read this article to see what is next. https://slate.com/business/2018/12/minneapolis-single-family-zoning-housing-racism.html

The gist is that more affordable housing is needed. To get that, do away with SFH zoning - in Minnesota, allow tri-plexes where SFH are (compromise down from quads). The MC Planning Board says 200,000 more people are coming to the county. We do need to figure out where they will live. I don't have answers, just questions. What do you think the solution should be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live near Wheaton and don't see panhandlers .. so where are they? In Bethesda?

I'm not a long time resident but in the Wheaton and silver spring area there are lots of new things being developed and people seem pretty optimistic about the future of these areas

Pretty much always someone at the intersection of Georgia Ave. & Viers Mill

And at the first light off the southbound Georgia Avenue exit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I win in terms of length of time in MoCo. My parents moved to Wheaton in 1959, when I was 1. Our first neighborhood was a mix of working class families (with the Dads having completed high school) and professional middle class families (with Dads having completed college). The homes were all single family 3-bedroom, 1-bath homes with a car in every driveway.

By 1970, we moved into an upper-middle class Wheaton neighborhood, with five- and six-bedroom houses, walking distance to a country club and near the horse stables. Our parents were all college grads, and kids all took tennis and golf lessons at the club (and the more adventurous of us took riding lessons). Some went to private school, but most went to the perfectly decent public school.

My parents still live in that house, now almost 50 years later. Multiple (probably illegal) immigrant families double and triple up, and there are five and six cars in front of many houses. The country club is long gone, for sure. The high school is more than 70% FARMS, a very high percentage ESOL, and is rated dead last in the county, at a 3. Because of that, you can pick up a 3,000 SF house for around $400k. The nearby strip shopping center is full of trash, empty liquor bottles, and sometimes dirty diapers.

So my area of MoCo has gone downhill, waaaaaay downhill.

Let me guess. You're white?

Wow, I'm soooo sorry your wealthy Country Club suburb has been infested by brown people.
And notice how PP describes her ideal MoCo as full of single (probably white) family homes where DADS (as opposed to Moms) were educated and brought home the bacon. Were there wives all June Cleavers who stayed home vacuuming in pearls?

Why don't we build a wall and keep all the immigrants and brown people out and keep your 1950s fantasy world in? #MAGA.
And you people think Elrich is the NIMBY. smh.

First, I described it as the Dads working because that was what it was like when my parents moved in 50 years ago. It's. It is not what I would have wanted, or want now. Assumption on your part.

Second, stop with the "infested with brown people" racist nonsense. It's a lie liberals keep repeating rather than face the truth - that an influx of poor, unskilled people unable to support themselves and reliant on taxpayer support to feed their kids is coming at a big cost to Americans living near where they settle.

Third, I am sympathetic to the elderly people who bought these homes 50+ years ago and have seen a big portion of the equity dry up just as they are about to need it for assisted living. Why are you so sympathetic to illegal immigrants, and not elderly Americans who worked all their lives and now find their neighborhoods in decline?

+100000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Accessory apartments is the first step, read this article to see what is next. https://slate.com/business/2018/12/minneapolis-single-family-zoning-housing-racism.html

The gist is that more affordable housing is needed. To get that, do away with SFH zoning - in Minnesota, allow tri-plexes where SFH are (compromise down from quads). The MC Planning Board says 200,000 more people are coming to the county. We do need to figure out where they will live. I don't have answers, just questions. What do you think the solution should be?

Why do they have to come to the DC area at all, where affordable housing is hard to find? Let them move to lower COLAs, where they can afford to live.

Seems like the liberals are saying that the answer is to take nice DMV neighborhoods with SFHs and turn them into ghettos with backyard rental shacks so immigrants can afford to move here. What about the Americans who are now living, one family per SFH, in these neighborhoods?

I swear, liberals have their priorities upside down.

[Anonymous]

Is this Ann Arbor-rejected plan going to be implemented in Potomac and Bethesda? Who will volunteer to pilot this in their backyard and their kids' school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No why should we move? we were here in MoCo first. Fun fact, when you move to another country, state or city, you should adapt to the social norms and cultural customs of the people living there. This fact is applied where-ever you go in the world. People in other places don’t always accommodate you because you are American. It is not unreasonable to expect that your neighbors don’t cram 3-5 families in a 3 bedroom or 4 bedroom home, in fact that is illegal for housing codes as well as first safety. Reporting people in such spaces is reasonable. It is not unreasonable to expect that your taxes which pay for public schools are not going toward the decline of the public schools in your neighborhood. It is not unreasonable to expect the county to place a memoratorium on tax dollars supporting to help illegal migrants with their legal woes.

I have been here in a long, long time but I know I have to get with the time or be left out. The 1950's are not coming back.
The county's demographics have changed, so deal with it or move across the river where you can relive the "good old days".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No why should we move? we were here in MoCo first. Fun fact, when you move to another country, state or city, you should adapt to the social norms and cultural customs of the people living there. This fact is applied where-ever you go in the world. People in other places don’t always accommodate you because you are American. It is not unreasonable to expect that your neighbors don’t cram 3-5 families in a 3 bedroom or 4 bedroom home, in fact that is illegal for housing codes as well as first safety. Reporting people in such spaces is reasonable. It is not unreasonable to expect that your taxes which pay for public schools are not going toward the decline of the public schools in your neighborhood. It is not unreasonable to expect the county to place a memoratorium on tax dollars supporting to help illegal migrants with their legal woes.

I have been here in a long, long time but I know I have to get with the time or be left out. The 1950's are not coming back.
The county's demographics have changed, so deal with it or move across the river where you can relive the "good old days".

DP. You're so out of touch it's not funny.

Moving across the river to NoVa will have you facing the same problems as liberal MoCo. We have a liberal B of Sup clamoring for affordable housing in even the most affluent areas (because poor people have just as much right to live among the wealthy, dontcha know) and pouring a fortune into state-of-the art homeless shelters a few blocks from million homes because they don't think it's fair to the homeless to be relegated to working class neighborhoods.

And "get with the times" mean keeping one's mouth shut in the face of all the problms caused when a large number of poor, unskilled, uneducated immigrants unable to even feed their children move into formerly nice neighborhoods? Just STFU, amirite?

[Anonymous]

This thread confirms that DCUM forum is a covert hangout for the #MAGA swamp creatures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live near Wheaton and don't see panhandlers .. so where are they? In Bethesda?

I'm not a long time resident but in the Wheaton and silver spring area there are lots of new things being developed and people seem pretty optimistic about the future of these areas

Yes. There are at least 4 I know of in Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

MoCo has declined, US has declined and the World has declined. Pollution, global warming, more humans than can be sustained, mass extinction of species.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:This thread confirms that DCUM forum is a covert hangout for the #MAGA swamp creatures.

Yes, reason enough to lock the thread,.