Innovative Ideas to reduce educational disparity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, as do the other students who are trying to learn. That really sucks. I really think those kids should be given a chance, but there should be a limit. At some point, like 16 or something, they should be put in alternative school after being given many chances. I don't think society should give up on them, but I agree, the others shouldn't have to deal with it for the whole school year.

[Anonymous]

^age 16

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

taught in challenging high schools for the bulk of my career

We've since moved out of Mo Co - and as far away from MCPS as possible! My kids love their schools. I'm done with the low expectations, disruptive behavior, and infringement upon my kids' right to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

taught in challenging high schools for the bulk of my career

We've since moved out of Mo Co - and as far away from MCPS as possible! My kids love their schools. I'm done with the low expectations, disruptive behavior, and infringement upon my kids' right to learn.

And you are still obsessed, interested and posting on MoCo thread. LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, as do the other students who are trying to learn. That really sucks. I really think those kids should be given a chance, but there should be a limit. At some point, like 16 or something, they should be put in alternative school after being given many chances. I don't think society should give up on them, but I agree, the others shouldn't have to deal with it for the whole school year.

I’m the PP you responded to. I teach elementary school and situations like I wrote above happen almost daily. If not daily, then a few times per week. Some kids have to be in the same classroom with these kids for more than a year because there are only so many combinations and permutations. It absolutely impacts their learning. If my kid was put in a class with a kid like this, I would demand that either my child be moved or the other kid be moved. When the rest of the kids have to leave the classroom and go into another one so they aren’t in danger when the kid starts having an episode where they are tearing up the classroom and throwing things, that’s when the line is drawn. I’m always expecting the phone calls and emails to pour in after such an episode but they don’t. I wish they did so admin and MCPS would be pressured to actually do something about it rather than just leave it up to the classroom teacher to handle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, as do the other students who are trying to learn. That really sucks. I really think those kids should be given a chance, but there should be a limit. At some point, like 16 or something, they should be put in alternative school after being given many chances. I don't think society should give up on them, but I agree, the others shouldn't have to deal with it for the whole school year.

I’m the PP you responded to. I teach elementary school and situations like I wrote above happen almost daily. If not daily, then a few times per week. Some kids have to be in the same classroom with these kids for more than a year because there are only so many combinations and permutations. It absolutely impacts their learning. If my kid was put in a class with a kid like this, I would demand that either my child be moved or the other kid be moved. When the rest of the kids have to leave the classroom and go into another one so they aren’t in danger when the kid starts having an episode where they are tearing up the classroom and throwing things, that’s when the line is drawn. I’m always expecting the phone calls and emails to pour in after such an episode but they don’t. I wish they did so admin and MCPS would be pressured to actually do something about it rather than just leave it up to the classroom teacher to handle.

As a parent, that would upset me. If it happens a couple of times per year, I would let it go, but everyday? That is not fair to the rest of the kids. Are the other parents not aware or are they just afraid to be *that* parent that singles out a disruptive child who may/may not have SN?

I don't think it serves anyone, least of all that child, for admin to ignore the issues. How is not addressing that child's issue going to help that child learn and be a productive member of society?

Terrible strategy. I feel badly for you PP, but thankful that we do have dedicated teachers out there who have to deal with this crap day in and day out, and probably have to deal with crazy parents to boot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

Part of the problem is that MCPS has made it a very zero sum game and has a track record of ignoring any need or issue coming from non-poverty areas. MCPS is famous for saying things that it recognizes that it is not serving the high achieving students but it doesn't matter because there are too many low performing students to care about the rest. MCPS looks for short cuts so doing things like placing magnets in bad schools to change the optics of the school performance, dumbing down the curriculum, removing exams, reducing math acceleration, and not allowing PTAs to find aides in schools with high ratios is more about trying to throttle higher achieving students to make up the gap than helping low achieving students perform better.

It's tough to put a robotics lab into a school where only 50% of 9th graders are passing federal standards in reading and math.

We know this, because Wheaton is our sister school, so whatever we donate to our HS's fund, 10% of it goes to Wheaton. We've even had theft issues at Wheaton for things the fund and PTAs jointly put in to the HS (i.e. stolen computers).

It's really a sad state of affairs. Academic basics aren't mastered, people whine for state-of-the-art everything, then they steal and physically wreak what is given.

t

I actually have a student at Wheaton. They have a robotics lab and the robotics team kicks ass. The school is three years old and still looks very new. My child has never witnessed any destruction of school property and has only heard about one kid taking a chrome book home.

I thought our rich "sister" school only donated money for the after prom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, as do the other students who are trying to learn. That really sucks. I really think those kids should be given a chance, but there should be a limit. At some point, like 16 or something, they should be put in alternative school after being given many chances. I don't think society should give up on them, but I agree, the others shouldn't have to deal with it for the whole school year.

I’m the PP you responded to. I teach elementary school and situations like I wrote above happen almost daily. If not daily, then a few times per week. Some kids have to be in the same classroom with these kids for more than a year because there are only so many combinations and permutations. It absolutely impacts their learning. If my kid was put in a class with a kid like this, I would demand that either my child be moved or the other kid be moved. When the rest of the kids have to leave the classroom and go into another one so they aren’t in danger when the kid starts having an episode where they are tearing up the classroom and throwing things, that’s when the line is drawn. I’m always expecting the phone calls and emails to pour in after such an episode but they don’t. I wish they did so admin and MCPS would be pressured to actually do something about it rather than just leave it up to the classroom teacher to handle.

As a parent, that would upset me. If it happens a couple of times per year, I would let it go, but everyday? That is not fair to the rest of the kids. Are the other parents not aware or are they just afraid to be *that* parent that singles out a disruptive child who may/may not have SN?

I don't think it serves anyone, least of all that child, for admin to ignore the issues. How is not addressing that child's issue going to help that child learn and be a productive member of society?

Terrible strategy. I feel badly for you PP, but thankful that we do have dedicated teachers out there who have to deal with this crap day in and day out, and probably have to deal with crazy parents to boot.

DP

We're at a Focus school and crap like this happens every year. In every classroom. Truly. I volunteer on and off, and my kids are older so we hear about it in details.

Even good teachers are in such a tough position because the kids learn early that they can get away with pretty terrible behavior. Our Focus school follows the PBIS system. So, they really don't want to implement any 'punitive' type measures. And, they want to keep the kids in the classroom. No suspensions. Really, no punishment, except that maybe the kid doesn't get a sticker at the end of the day.

This year in 1st grade, we already had a kid who hit the teacher. Lots of kids who sprawl out on the floor and kick around, not paying attention. We've had so many issues on the playground, during recess - kids pushing other kids off, kids getting in fights. Admin can't or doesn't do much. It's a pretty terrible learning environment, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, as do the other students who are trying to learn. That really sucks. I really think those kids should be given a chance, but there should be a limit. At some point, like 16 or something, they should be put in alternative school after being given many chances. I don't think society should give up on them, but I agree, the others shouldn't have to deal with it for the whole school year.

I’m the PP you responded to. I teach elementary school and situations like I wrote above happen almost daily. If not daily, then a few times per week. Some kids have to be in the same classroom with these kids for more than a year because there are only so many combinations and permutations. It absolutely impacts their learning. If my kid was put in a class with a kid like this, I would demand that either my child be moved or the other kid be moved. When the rest of the kids have to leave the classroom and go into another one so they aren’t in danger when the kid starts having an episode where they are tearing up the classroom and throwing things, that’s when the line is drawn. I’m always expecting the phone calls and emails to pour in after such an episode but they don’t. I wish they did so admin and MCPS would be pressured to actually do something about it rather than just leave it up to the classroom teacher to handle.

As a parent, that would upset me. If it happens a couple of times per year, I would let it go, but everyday? That is not fair to the rest of the kids. Are the other parents not aware or are they just afraid to be *that* parent that singles out a disruptive child who may/may not have SN?

I don't think it serves anyone, least of all that child, for admin to ignore the issues. How is not addressing that child's issue going to help that child learn and be a productive member of society?

Terrible strategy. I feel badly for you PP, but thankful that we do have dedicated teachers out there who have to deal with this crap day in and day out, and probably have to deal with crazy parents to boot.

DP

We're at a Focus school and crap like this happens every year. In every classroom. Truly. I volunteer on and off, and my kids are older so we hear about it in details.

Even good teachers are in such a tough position because the kids learn early that they can get away with pretty terrible behavior. Our Focus school follows the PBIS system. So, they really don't want to implement any 'punitive' type measures. And, they want to keep the kids in the classroom. No suspensions. Really, no punishment, except that maybe the kid doesn't get a sticker at the end of the day.

This year in 1st grade, we already had a kid who hit the teacher. Lots of kids who sprawl out on the floor and kick around, not paying attention. We've had so many issues on the playground, during recess - kids pushing other kids off, kids getting in fights. Admin can't or doesn't do much. It's a pretty terrible learning environment, IMO.

If MCPS mixes kids from your school with kids from an ES in W school, the incidece per class will be reduced so more kids will get a better chance to learn. MCPS could adopt more split ES models as NCC ES and CCES, or TPES and PBES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trying to think outside the box to resolve the educational disparities of MCPS, seems some schools consistently perform better, likely due to the insular nature of the well to population attending those schools.

It’s time we finally do something instead of complaining about it. Children of lesser means should have the same educational opportunity as the wealthy and the well off children would really grow if they expanded their multicultural experiences and exposures.

So this isn’t really an innovation because it’s been done before in other places but should we start to advocate for diversified schools... we already have a robust busing system all we need to do is end the practice of local based schooling (which sadly has its roots in segregation, yet has persisted). Amazing how that segregation remains today in schools, albeit more ‘economic’ than race based but we all know pervasive institutional racial discrimination leads to economic disparities and that translates to the reduced educational opportunity in the local school where the victims of systemic generational racism attend.

It cannot be that hard to develop a computer model which will place students in schools to create a balance in the schools of the wonderful diversity we have in the county. What a truly enriching experience it would be for all our young students. The only challenges I see would be potentially longer school bus commutes but I think this one is workable. We already have many of the ‘gifted’ program students traveling cross county. Sure another challenge will be some will complain, but like all change once instituted they’d get used to it.

Let’s have a good discussion and start to make our schools better for all. Please no haters here, the first step to advantageous change is constructive dialogue.

Birth control mailers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is based on the assumption that educational opportunities are a zero-sum game. I.e., if it helps you, it hurts me. It doesn't have to be that way.

Part of the problem is that MCPS has made it a very zero sum game and has a track record of ignoring any need or issue coming from non-poverty areas. MCPS is famous for saying things that it recognizes that it is not serving the high achieving students but it doesn't matter because there are too many low performing students to care about the rest. MCPS looks for short cuts so doing things like placing magnets in bad schools to change the optics of the school performance, dumbing down the curriculum, removing exams, reducing math acceleration, and not allowing PTAs to find aides in schools with high ratios is more about trying to throttle higher achieving students to make up the gap than helping low achieving students perform better.

It's tough to put a robotics lab into a school where only 50% of 9th graders are passing federal standards in reading and math.

We know this, because Wheaton is our sister school, so whatever we donate to our HS's fund, 10% of it goes to Wheaton. We've even had theft issues at Wheaton for things the fund and PTAs jointly put in to the HS (i.e. stolen computers).

It's really a sad state of affairs. Academic basics aren't mastered, people whine for state-of-the-art everything, then they steal and physically wreak what is given.

t

I actually have a student at Wheaton. They have a robotics lab and the robotics team kicks ass. The school is three years old and still looks very new. My child has never witnessed any destruction of school property and has only heard about one kid taking a chrome book home.

I thought our rich "sister" school only donated money for the after prom.

Were you around in hs 5 years ago? Pre-Wheaton program within Wheaton? It wasn’t pretty.
Check out who funded the robotics lab 2-5 years ago. And what kids got major ssl hours going over there.

[Anonymous]

Our W elementary school has just as many disruptive kids. Yes, classrooms have to evacuate multiple times per week. School says they are collecting data (they did the last year too). It's just hard to get those kids out of gen ed, and get them the help they need, especially when the parents are in complete denial. And this is in an overcrowded W school, with 26 kids in lower grades and 30 in upper.

MCPS has to figure out how to handle this quicker. In all schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, as do the other students who are trying to learn. That really sucks. I really think those kids should be given a chance, but there should be a limit. At some point, like 16 or something, they should be put in alternative school after being given many chances. I don't think society should give up on them, but I agree, the others shouldn't have to deal with it for the whole school year.

I’m the PP you responded to. I teach elementary school and situations like I wrote above happen almost daily. If not daily, then a few times per week. Some kids have to be in the same classroom with these kids for more than a year because there are only so many combinations and permutations. It absolutely impacts their learning. If my kid was put in a class with a kid like this, I would demand that either my child be moved or the other kid be moved. When the rest of the kids have to leave the classroom and go into another one so they aren’t in danger when the kid starts having an episode where they are tearing up the classroom and throwing things, that’s when the line is drawn. I’m always expecting the phone calls and emails to pour in after such an episode but they don’t. I wish they did so admin and MCPS would be pressured to actually do something about it rather than just leave it up to the classroom teacher to handle.

As a parent, that would upset me. If it happens a couple of times per year, I would let it go, but everyday? That is not fair to the rest of the kids. Are the other parents not aware or are they just afraid to be *that* parent that singles out a disruptive child who may/may not have SN?

I don't think it serves anyone, least of all that child, for admin to ignore the issues. How is not addressing that child's issue going to help that child learn and be a productive member of society?

Terrible strategy. I feel badly for you PP, but thankful that we do have dedicated teachers out there who have to deal with this crap day in and day out, and probably have to deal with crazy parents to boot.

DP

We're at a Focus school and crap like this happens every year. In every classroom. Truly. I volunteer on and off, and my kids are older so we hear about it in details.

Even good teachers are in such a tough position because the kids learn early that they can get away with pretty terrible behavior. Our Focus school follows the PBIS system. So, they really don't want to implement any 'punitive' type measures. And, they want to keep the kids in the classroom. No suspensions. Really, no punishment, except that maybe the kid doesn't get a sticker at the end of the day.

This year in 1st grade, we already had a kid who hit the teacher. Lots of kids who sprawl out on the floor and kick around, not paying attention. We've had so many issues on the playground, during recess - kids pushing other kids off, kids getting in fights. Admin can't or doesn't do much. It's a pretty terrible learning environment, IMO.

I'm the teacher PP. We're also a PBIS school. You bring up a good point that kids learn early on they can get way with terrible behavior, and the ones without severe behavioral issues also see the kids who act out in an extreme way don't face any consequences so they know they can push things pretty far without consequence. With PBIS, they also see these kids get rewarded pretty often for things everyone else is expected to do without any kind of reward, so then they learn not to do it unless they're rewarded. It's a domino effect. Admin faces extreme pressure from central office to not suspend, and I don't think suspension is always the answer, but I do think that parents of these students need to be inconvenienced to understand how big of an issue it is. Twenty something other children and various adults are far worse than inconvenienced but the parents don't have to take any responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll get majorly flamed for this, but the kids with severe behavior problems are the primary issue in the high FARMS school where I teach. I understand the least restrictive environment, but the rights of one student to learn shouldn't trump the rights of the other 20 something students in the classroom. Not to mention the abuse the staff have to endure on a daily basis. We're only told to "try more strategies" by admin and the "experts", and the parents tell us it's our problem to deal with during school hours.

These kids pretty much rob the other kids of their opportunities to learn. I don't blame them for being unable to tune out a kid laying on his back and kicking a metal desk during the whole group lesson, or be able to concentrate in class near a student who threatened to beat you up yesterday.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, as do the other students who are trying to learn. That really sucks. I really think those kids should be given a chance, but there should be a limit. At some point, like 16 or something, they should be put in alternative school after being given many chances. I don't think society should give up on them, but I agree, the others shouldn't have to deal with it for the whole school year.

I’m the PP you responded to. I teach elementary school and situations like I wrote above happen almost daily. If not daily, then a few times per week. Some kids have to be in the same classroom with these kids for more than a year because there are only so many combinations and permutations. It absolutely impacts their learning. If my kid was put in a class with a kid like this, I would demand that either my child be moved or the other kid be moved. When the rest of the kids have to leave the classroom and go into another one so they aren’t in danger when the kid starts having an episode where they are tearing up the classroom and throwing things, that’s when the line is drawn. I’m always expecting the phone calls and emails to pour in after such an episode but they don’t. I wish they did so admin and MCPS would be pressured to actually do something about it rather than just leave it up to the classroom teacher to handle.

As a parent, that would upset me. If it happens a couple of times per year, I would let it go, but everyday? That is not fair to the rest of the kids. Are the other parents not aware or are they just afraid to be *that* parent that singles out a disruptive child who may/may not have SN?

I don't think it serves anyone, least of all that child, for admin to ignore the issues. How is not addressing that child's issue going to help that child learn and be a productive member of society?

Terrible strategy. I feel badly for you PP, but thankful that we do have dedicated teachers out there who have to deal with this crap day in and day out, and probably have to deal with crazy parents to boot.

DP

We're at a Focus school and crap like this happens every year. In every classroom. Truly. I volunteer on and off, and my kids are older so we hear about it in details.

Even good teachers are in such a tough position because the kids learn early that they can get away with pretty terrible behavior. Our Focus school follows the PBIS system. So, they really don't want to implement any 'punitive' type measures. And, they want to keep the kids in the classroom. No suspensions. Really, no punishment, except that maybe the kid doesn't get a sticker at the end of the day.

This year in 1st grade, we already had a kid who hit the teacher. Lots of kids who sprawl out on the floor and kick around, not paying attention. We've had so many issues on the playground, during recess - kids pushing other kids off, kids getting in fights. Admin can't or doesn't do much. It's a pretty terrible learning environment, IMO.

Administrator's hands are tied. I used to work in a Focus school and it was a disaster. I don't think parents realize how extreme the behaviors are in schools nowadays. I'm in my 30's and I know we all had that one classmate who was the clown in school. Now, the class clown is actually the class terrorist who is verbally abusive, cannot manage his/her emotions and will react violently to his/her peers and teacher. I know our administrators would try to get a kid suspended but the their community superintendent wouldn't allow it. After all, too many suspensions looks bad as a school system according to the state. Again, they have NO idea what kind of freak show is going on in classrooms across the county. The latest news is that students in grades K - 2 can no longer be suspended unless they have done something criminal. Awesome!

[Anonymous]

Can I ask what you think is different? Are there more kids with these behavioral issues? Or were they in different classrooms instead of being mainstreamed before?