Fleeing APS schools for FFX County

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ you brought up busing. Please research and link if you are interested.

Ok. If not busing, then what are these “best practices” you want that the county won’t do?

Were you not around for the last boundary redraw? I think you can find a thread or two here.

You’ve made some bold accusations. Are you able to back them up or not?

Not PP, but are you saying it's "bold" to say that concentrated poverty may have a deleterious effect on educational outcomes?

No.

Bold comments:
#1
“Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...”

#2
“Yes, when it becomes evident that the county will not engage in best practices, most parents make other arrangements. ”

Is PP able to back these comments up? Or I suspect she is just FOS.

Hardly bold

Calling everyone who chose to live in North Arlington a racist?
Saying the county is promoting segregation?

What else would you call it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ you brought up busing. Please research and link if you are interested.

Ok. If not busing, then what are these “best practices” you want that the county won’t do?

Were you not around for the last boundary redraw? I think you can find a thread or two here.

You’ve made some bold accusations. Are you able to back them up or not?

Not PP, but are you saying it's "bold" to say that concentrated poverty may have a deleterious effect on educational outcomes?

No.

Bold comments:
#1
“Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...”

#2
“Yes, when it becomes evident that the county will not engage in best practices, most parents make other arrangements. ”

Is PP able to back these comments up? Or I suspect she is just FOS.

Hardly bold

Calling everyone who chose to live in North Arlington a racist?
Saying the county is promoting segregation?

What else would you call it?

Doesn’t say anything about racism.

[Anonymous]

It is about busing. PP is upset APS didn't bus kids in the W-L walk zone to Wakefield to improve the FARMS rate there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite the data dump. Definitely looks like the best schools in the region are in FCPS.

And also some of the worst.

Not so. The worst public schools in the region are in DC and PG. The worst schools in FCPS would be among the best there.

I only have data for VA schools. FCPS has some of the “worst” schools in close-in VA. See above. Want me to break out the data for you so it’s clearer. It’s a huge school system so not surprising. It’s not all sunshine and roses.

In that case, OP should just accept the lack of a 4th high school in APS, because some of the elementary schools in FCPS are some of the worst in NoVA. Thanks for answering the question.

Yes, because blanketly saying FCPS has “the best” schools is helpful.

Uh, it would be lying to say that other districts have the best schools...

OP is asking about the FCPS system. It has some of the best schools and also some of the worst. You are painting an incomplete picture by only commenting on a few schools. It’s a huge system. It’s not all Langley and McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ you brought up busing. Please research and link if you are interested.

Ok. If not busing, then what are these “best practices” you want that the county won’t do?

Were you not around for the last boundary redraw? I think you can find a thread or two here.

You’ve made some bold accusations. Are you able to back them up or not?

Not PP, but are you saying it's "bold" to say that concentrated poverty may have a deleterious effect on educational outcomes?

No.

Bold comments:
#1
“Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...”

#2
“Yes, when it becomes evident that the county will not engage in best practices, most parents make other arrangements. ”

Is PP able to back these comments up? Or I suspect she is just FOS.

Hardly bold

Calling everyone who chose to live in North Arlington a racist?
Saying the county is promoting segregation?

What else would you call it?

Doesn’t say anything about racism.

Go re-read #1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is about busing. PP is upset APS didn't bus kids in the W-L walk zone to Wakefield to improve the FARMS rate there.

I do remember that from previous threads.

I wonder why PP refuses to provide some evidence that busing is a “best practice”...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about busing. PP is upset APS didn't bus kids in the W-L walk zone to Wakefield to improve the FARMS rate there.

I do remember that from previous threads.

I wonder why PP refuses to provide some evidence that busing is a “best practice”...

Especially when going with Option 3 instead of Option 4 would have only shifted the FARMS rate at Wakefield by two percentage points, leaving it still above 40%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is about busing. PP is upset APS didn't bus kids in the W-L walk zone to Wakefield to improve the FARMS rate there.

I'm not PP, but the reality is that they didn't move bus riders from one school to another school, both pretty equidistant for the majority of PUs, resulting in furthering the baked-in economic segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ you brought up busing. Please research and link if you are interested.

Ok. If not busing, then what are these “best practices” you want that the county won’t do?

Were you not around for the last boundary redraw? I think you can find a thread or two here.

You’ve made some bold accusations. Are you able to back them up or not?

Not PP, but are you saying it's "bold" to say that concentrated poverty may have a deleterious effect on educational outcomes?

DP. Don't be obtuse. APS didn't create the concentrations of poverty, those are due to housing and economic development and policy that APS has no control over. They cannot change the geographic concentrations of poverty and have limited options for fixing the consequences of it for schools. If you have a specific thing you think APS can and should be doing, just say it. Otherwise you're not worth my time anymore.

I'm not the one making "bold" accusations, but it's not true that APS has no role in this. There are and will be lots of kids on buses, because there are many areas that are not and will never be safely walkable. That's not "busing." Some kids can be bused to a different school, sometimes even an equidistant one, to avoid further concentrating poverty. And APS can choose how boundaries are drawn and where option programs are located, to some extent, and utilize their powers to break up concentrated poverty and/or to avoid creating new neighborhood schools where the concentrated poverty would be higher than it already is. They can also employ admissions policies to option schools that serve to promote economic integration (they are doing a better job with his as of late). None of this is "busing." It's educational best practices.

But, instead of wanting them to do any of those things, many people want APS to eliminate all option schools and choice programs and force everyone to walk to their segregated neighborhood schools. How else can that be interpreted other than those individuals are not only willing to accept de facto segregation, but are knowingly and actively working against integration? Because that's just an acceptable outcome? That's just how it always has been and therefore always shall be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ you brought up busing. Please research and link if you are interested.

Ok. If not busing, then what are these “best practices” you want that the county won’t do?

Were you not around for the last boundary redraw? I think you can find a thread or two here.

You’ve made some bold accusations. Are you able to back them up or not?

Not PP, but are you saying it's "bold" to say that concentrated poverty may have a deleterious effect on educational outcomes?

DP. Don't be obtuse. APS didn't create the concentrations of poverty, those are due to housing and economic development and policy that APS has no control over. They cannot change the geographic concentrations of poverty and have limited options for fixing the consequences of it for schools. If you have a specific thing you think APS can and should be doing, just say it. Otherwise you're not worth my time anymore.

I'm not the one making "bold" accusations, but it's not true that APS has no role in this. There are and will be lots of kids on buses, because there are many areas that are not and will never be safely walkable. That's not "busing." Some kids can be bused to a different school, sometimes even an equidistant one, to avoid further concentrating poverty. And APS can choose how boundaries are drawn and where option programs are located, to some extent, and utilize their powers to break up concentrated poverty and/or to avoid creating new neighborhood schools where the concentrated poverty would be higher than it already is. They can also employ admissions policies to option schools that serve to promote economic integration (they are doing a better job with his as of late). None of this is "busing." It's educational best practices.

But, instead of wanting them to do any of those things, many people want APS to eliminate all option schools and choice programs and force everyone to walk to their segregated neighborhood schools. How else can that be interpreted other than those individuals are not only willing to accept de facto segregation, but are knowingly and actively working against integration? Because that's just an acceptable outcome? That's just how it always has been and therefore always shall be?

Nice strawman. There is no discussion of disbanding option schools, don't attribute to APS a view held by a small handful of residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is about busing. PP is upset APS didn't bus kids in the W-L walk zone to Wakefield to improve the FARMS rate there.

“Walk zone”
Never mentioned busing, but its Very hard to achieve what people typically refer to as busing in such a small county. So strange for such a progressive place... Less than .5 miles is a huge deal, but what’s a few more percentages to the f/RL rate? Such a strange place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ you brought up busing. Please research and link if you are interested.

Ok. If not busing, then what are these “best practices” you want that the county won’t do?

Were you not around for the last boundary redraw? I think you can find a thread or two here.

You’ve made some bold accusations. Are you able to back them up or not?

Not PP, but are you saying it's "bold" to say that concentrated poverty may have a deleterious effect on educational outcomes?

DP. Don't be obtuse. APS didn't create the concentrations of poverty, those are due to housing and economic development and policy that APS has no control over. They cannot change the geographic concentrations of poverty and have limited options for fixing the consequences of it for schools. If you have a specific thing you think APS can and should be doing, just say it. Otherwise you're not worth my time anymore.

I'm not the one making "bold" accusations, but it's not true that APS has no role in this. There are and will be lots of kids on buses, because there are many areas that are not and will never be safely walkable. That's not "busing." Some kids can be bused to a different school, sometimes even an equidistant one, to avoid further concentrating poverty. And APS can choose how boundaries are drawn and where option programs are located, to some extent, and utilize their powers to break up concentrated poverty and/or to avoid creating new neighborhood schools where the concentrated poverty would be higher than it already is. They can also employ admissions policies to option schools that serve to promote economic integration (they are doing a better job with his as of late). None of this is "busing." It's educational best practices.

But, instead of wanting them to do any of those things, many people want APS to eliminate all option schools and choice programs and force everyone to walk to their segregated neighborhood schools. How else can that be interpreted other than those individuals are not only willing to accept de facto segregation, but are knowingly and actively working against integration? Because that's just an acceptable outcome? That's just how it always has been and therefore always shall be?

Nice strawman. There is no discussion of disbanding option schools, don't attribute to APS a view held by a small handful of residents.

If you're a "south Arlington" parent who does NOT want to send her kids to the neighborhood school then your options are:
a) send your kids to an option school
b) move to a different school boundary (Tuckahoe perhaps?)
c) berate parents from other schools to bus their kids MILES down past their own neighborhood school to the SA neighborhood school just to have better demographics for your kid
d) all of the above

Given (a), PP is over-sensitive about availability of option schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
[Up]

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It depends on whether you can afford to buy into one of the better schools. FCPS has done a much better job than APS at pushing the worst of those issues into the schools people can least afford to leave.

How so? APS is very segregated and avoids demographic balance by claiming walk zones are a priority.

Right, but at least they're not (in most cases) making the overcrowded poor schools remain overcrowded without a boundary change, and they're not talking about doing split shifts only at Wakefield.

In FFX, they let Bailey's ES look like a favela for a very long time, only to relive them by moving half the kids into a foreclosed office building with no playground or gymnasium and calling it an "upper ES." They would not have dared propose such a solution at Chesterbrook.


Yes, this is what I’m talking about. A school system can’t do much about housing demographics. But if APS did what FCPS does, you wouldn’t see a trailer anywhere north of Route 50 even though they’d have all of the choice schools because the neighborhoods closest to Route 50 would be bused south to make more room for the north of Lee Highway folks.

Huh? If FCPS had issues similar to APS, they’d expand HB Woodlawn and convert it to a normal school, not spend a ton of money so a few hundred kids could have a private-school experience.

This.
FFX would never have the issues APS has, because as soon as they got too big, they would eliminate the choice programs and they would bus students as needed.


Which AAP centers did they disband in order to address overcrowding issues

?

I don't think they've disbanded any. I'm pretty sure they've just created more Level IV centers at additional schools so that there is less need for busing.

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

FCPS offered to build a new elementary school next to Glasgow MS, but the community declined this option.

Are you talking about the proposal a few years ago to put an elementary school on a two-acre parel on Columbia Pike? That came up after Bailey's Upper was opened in the office building, so the office building wasn't a solution FCPS landed on after the community rejected the other site. Moreover, what you do you think an elementary school on 2 acres would look like? Bailey's Upper has 3.5 acres and still needed five stories and barely has outdoor space.

No, this proposal predates the small parcel on Columbia Pike, which was made in 2015. In 2012-2013 FCPS proposed building next to Glasgow Middle School. See https://annandaleva.blogspot.com/2012/12/new-elementary-school-proposed-for.html

Your point being? Then end result is that FCPS gave in to the community, didn't build the needed school, and ended up with a sub-par result that didn't touch any choice programs, including AAP. I have no idea how this is supposed to prove that if APS were run like FCPS, they would turn HB into a neighborhood school and add more seats because that's not what they did with Baileys in any way, shape or form.

Bailey’s Upper is a fantastic facility in many respects. The idea of building near Glasgow was just one alternative considered and, had other opportunities not presented themselves, it might have been considered further. FCPS has other locations where multiple schools are in close proximity.

This is what I don’t get. My kids did not go through Baileys Upper. But I pass it every day on the way to work. It looks like they did a really nice job with it. The new interiors look great. And yes— it has a real playground in the back. Wh does someone have their knickers in a twist about this? It is what is going to have to happen more and more often in this area are it becomes more urban. It looks like they did a great job. I would have no problem with my kid going to the facility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Fairfax County and live in Arlington now. Will probably move by elementary. I received a fantastic education in FCPS (including at Marshall HS, which is really a gem). APS seems unwilling or unable to face reality and that scares me.

NP. I'm in the exact opposite boat. Grew up in Arlington and now live in Fairfax. Three kids in elementary school here. My in-laws are in poor health and still live in Arlington, as do my parents. Both sets of parents desperately want us to move back to Arlington, to the point that my parents repeatedly try to get us to move in with them (they have the space and their house is in a very desirable school district). DH and I are not interested in moving back, and the school situation is a big reason why. I loved growing up in Arlington but the problems that APS is facing now have been looming since I was a kid.

To each their own. Both my husband and I graduated from Fairfax County public schools (me from one of the 'best' and he from one of the 'worst') and we aren't leaving APS. The quality of the teachers my kids have had in APS has been the determining factor. I had language teachers in Fairfax that didn't actually speak the language, long term subs who couldn't teach math, gym teachers who bullied and belittled kids unchecked, and on and on. The APS teachers we've had have been, with one or two exceptions, outstanding.

How terrible that this was happening in FCPS. In 1990.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ you brought up busing. Please research and link if you are interested.

Ok. If not busing, then what are these “best practices” you want that the county won’t do?

Were you not around for the last boundary redraw? I think you can find a thread or two here.

You’ve made some bold accusations. Are you able to back them up or not?

Not PP, but are you saying it's "bold" to say that concentrated poverty may have a deleterious effect on educational outcomes?

DP. Don't be obtuse. APS didn't create the concentrations of poverty, those are due to housing and economic development and policy that APS has no control over. They cannot change the geographic concentrations of poverty and have limited options for fixing the consequences of it for schools. If you have a specific thing you think APS can and should be doing, just say it. Otherwise you're not worth my time anymore.

I'm not the one making "bold" accusations, but it's not true that APS has no role in this. There are and will be lots of kids on buses, because there are many areas that are not and will never be safely walkable. That's not "busing." Some kids can be bused to a different school, sometimes even an equidistant one, to avoid further concentrating poverty. And APS can choose how boundaries are drawn and where option programs are located, to some extent, and utilize their powers to break up concentrated poverty and/or to avoid creating new neighborhood schools where the concentrated poverty would be higher than it already is. They can also employ admissions policies to option schools that serve to promote economic integration (they are doing a better job with his as of late). None of this is "busing." It's educational best practices.

But, instead of wanting them to do any of those things, many people want APS to eliminate all option schools and choice programs and force everyone to walk to their segregated neighborhood schools. How else can that be interpreted other than those individuals are not only willing to accept de facto segregation, but are knowingly and actively working against integration? Because that's just an acceptable outcome? That's just how it always has been and therefore always shall be?

Nice strawman. There is no discussion of disbanding option schools, don't attribute to APS a view held by a small handful of residents.

If you're a "south Arlington" parent who does NOT want to send her kids to the neighborhood school then your options are:
a) send your kids to an option school
b) move to a different school boundary (Tuckahoe perhaps?)
c) berate parents from other schools to bus their kids MILES down past their own neighborhood school to the SA neighborhood school just to have better demographics for your kid
d) all of the above

Given (a), PP is over-sensitive about availability of option schools.

What is with the weird Tuckahoe obsession?