Do unmotivated kids get into HGC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll be damned if some unmotivated, ratty snot gets a spot when there are other kids who would love to go. OP, keep your kid at your home school and leave the magnets for motivated students.

leave the magnets for the genius/near genius kids.

Fixed that for you pp.

[Anonymous]

The whole new system is about removing barriers to access. I support this goal.

what does that have to do with any test scores? Or are you saying that they watered down the application process so they can socially engineer the acceptances?

Removing barriers means making it so more students will apply/be considered for the programs. Many qualified students never applied when it was a parent driven system. Their parents didn't know about it or understand the process. A parent driven system favors children from educated families.

Removing barriers might also include alleviating transportation or scheduling concerns that would make it so some students couldn't participate.

It's about making the applicant (considered) pool more closely mirror the population of the county, not about changing the qualifications. Increasing access to be considered for the programs, not changing the qualifications for being admitted. Yes, it will also increase competition and should change the make up of the accepted group of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I honestly don't think the caliber of MCPS magnet programs is suffering. I think that is a gross exaggeration and I'm not sure what you are basing it on.

This is the first year of the change, so you won't see the change immediately, and MCPS will never admit it either.

conjecture. but I supposed you will believe what you want.

Have you ever had a kid in HGC? I have, and I can tell you that a big part of the HGC is the cohorts, the caliber of the peers. Even if the standards within HGC curriculum doesn't change, I can tell you that if the students there are not as high caliber, the caliber of the program will change. And the only ones who suffer are the "highly gifted" kids who really do need such a program. I don't need to make any assumptions to realize this.

Who says the caliber of student will not be as high?

What does "broaden the definition of highly gifted" mean to you?

It means "broaden the definition of highly gifted". The admissions process was previously based on teacher recommendations and that one test that was probably the CogAT. Now they're looking at more information -- MAP and PARCC scores, for example.

PARCC isn't even taken until the end of 3rd grade; there's no way PARCC can be factored in the HGC decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The whole new system is about removing barriers to access. I support this goal.

what does that have to do with any test scores? Or are you saying that they watered down the application process so they can socially engineer the acceptances?

Removing barriers means making it so more students will apply/be considered for the programs. Many qualified students never applied when it was a parent driven system. Their parents didn't know about it or understand the process. A parent driven system favors children from educated families.

Removing barriers might also include alleviating transportation or scheduling concerns that would make it so some students couldn't participate.

It's about making the applicant (considered) pool more closely mirror the population of the county, not about changing the qualifications. Increasing access to be considered for the programs, not changing the qualifications for being admitted. Yes, it will also increase competition and should change the make up of the accepted group of students.

Then I suggest every 3rd grader take the test, unless his/her parents opt out. Now that the test is only 30 minutes, it won't cut too much into the instruction time. Have everyone take the test, and then accept the top 3% percent. Would that help remove 'barriers to access'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I honestly don't think the caliber of MCPS magnet programs is suffering. I think that is a gross exaggeration and I'm not sure what you are basing it on.

This is the first year of the change, so you won't see the change immediately, and MCPS will never admit it either.

conjecture. but I supposed you will believe what you want.

Have you ever had a kid in HGC? I have, and I can tell you that a big part of the HGC is the cohorts, the caliber of the peers. Even if the standards within HGC curriculum doesn't change, I can tell you that if the students there are not as high caliber, the caliber of the program will change. And the only ones who suffer are the "highly gifted" kids who really do need such a program. I don't need to make any assumptions to realize this.

Who says the caliber of student will not be as high?

What does "broaden the definition of highly gifted" mean to you?

It means "broaden the definition of highly gifted". The admissions process was previously based on teacher recommendations and that one test that was probably the CogAT. Now they're looking at more information -- MAP and PARCC scores, for example.

PARCC isn't even taken until the end of 3rd grade; there's no way PARCC can be factored in the HGC decision.

MCPS stated that PARCC and MAP scores will be used for the pilot for the middle school magnets this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The whole new system is about removing barriers to access. I support this goal.

what does that have to do with any test scores? Or are you saying that they watered down the application process so they can socially engineer the acceptances?

Removing barriers means making it so more students will apply/be considered for the programs. Many qualified students never applied when it was a parent driven system. Their parents didn't know about it or understand the process. A parent driven system favors children from educated families.

Removing barriers might also include alleviating transportation or scheduling concerns that would make it so some students couldn't participate.

It's about making the applicant (considered) pool more closely mirror the population of the county, not about changing the qualifications. Increasing access to be considered for the programs, not changing the qualifications for being admitted. Yes, it will also increase competition and should change the make up of the accepted group of students.

Then I suggest every 3rd grader take the test, unless his/her parents opt out. Now that the test is only 30 minutes, it won't cut too much into the instruction time. Have everyone take the test, and then accept the top 3% percent. Would that help remove 'barriers to access'?

I agree, this would help remove barriers, and might be a better approach. Definitely better than the "old" system.
It could also be expensive to MCPS as I think they pay for each child who is tested. There is a state mandate that limits the total amount of time students can be involved in testing and I believe that any required test counts towards that time, so by making it so it's not required by all it doesn't count towards that total, but maybe it should. Maybe MCPS should stop testing all kids in 2nd grade for the GT identification that doesn't really mean anything and instead test all third graders and use it to choose students for CES and other programs?

[Anonymous]

Kumbaya kumbaya

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And if that is the case, then great. But MCPS hasn't stated that. No one really knows how MCPS defines it.

And I highly doubt that there would be significantly more URM based solely based on those other standarized tests given that they typically as a group don't score very high on such tests.

MCPS conducted pilots last year. MCPS has data. These are empirical questions. You don't have to speculate. Look at the actual stuff that MCPS is actually doing.

The public doesn't have access to the test scores for admitted students. They even stopped showing the median scores of the accepted students like they used to do on the test results of the students.

It's a big secret, and I wonder why they are so secretive about the stats.

One of the most intelligent comments on this thread. Someone should get this. Journalists are you out there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a big secret, and I wonder why they are so secretive about the stats.

One of the most intelligent comments on this thread. Someone should get this. Journalists are you out there?

As an Asian-American parent, I am very interested in knowing how these acceptance rates are determined. While Asian-American students do have a large representation within HGC and magnet programs, a huge majority of Asian-Americans are not taken in the programs, perhaps for the sake of diversity. The admissions should be based on merit.

Yes, accessibility is an issue and so MCPS must test all students in 3rd grade at school first - as that would be the fairest thing for everyone. But, lets stop penalizing Asian-Americans for working hard.

[Anonymous]

that's just it. there is "wicked, brilliant, genius smart" and then there's "sit on your butt and study harder smart."
the grade 3-12 privates and the H/P/Ys prefer the former. Does MCPS HGC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a big secret, and I wonder why they are so secretive about the stats.

One of the most intelligent comments on this thread. Someone should get this. Journalists are you out there?

As an Asian-American parent, I am very interested in knowing how these acceptance rates are determined. While Asian-American students do have a large representation within HGC and magnet programs, a huge majority of Asian-Americans are not taken in the programs, perhaps for the sake of diversity. The admissions should be based on merit.

Yes, accessibility is an issue and so MCPS must test all students in 3rd grade at school first - as that would be the fairest thing for everyone. But, lets stop penalizing Asian-Americans for working hard.

On the one hand, there are lots more super-bright Asian-American students and white students than spots (according to DCUM).

On the other hand, it is impossible to increase the proportion of black students and Hispanic students without admitting unqualified students based on their race/ethnicity (also according to DCUM).

Is there an explanation for this apparent contradiction that doesn't involve the idea that the fraction of black students and Hispanic students who are super-bright is lower than the fraction of Asian-American and white students who are super-bright?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a big secret, and I wonder why they are so secretive about the stats.

One of the most intelligent comments on this thread. Someone should get this. Journalists are you out there?

As an Asian-American parent, I am very interested in knowing how these acceptance rates are determined. While Asian-American students do have a large representation within HGC and magnet programs, a huge majority of Asian-Americans are not taken in the programs, perhaps for the sake of diversity. The admissions should be based on merit.

Yes, accessibility is an issue and so MCPS must test all students in 3rd grade at school first - as that would be the fairest thing for everyone. But, lets stop penalizing Asian-Americans for working hard.

On the one hand, there are lots more super-bright Asian-American students and white students than spots (according to DCUM).

On the other hand, it is impossible to increase the proportion of black students and Hispanic students without admitting unqualified students based on their race/ethnicity (also according to DCUM).

Is there an explanation for this apparent contradiction that doesn't involve the idea that the fraction of black students and Hispanic students who are super-bright is lower than the fraction of Asian-American and white students who are super-bright?

Facts are facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I honestly don't think the caliber of MCPS magnet programs is suffering. I think that is a gross exaggeration and I'm not sure what you are basing it on.

This is the first year of the change, so you won't see the change immediately, and MCPS will never admit it either.

conjecture. but I supposed you will believe what you want.

Have you ever had a kid in HGC? I have, and I can tell you that a big part of the HGC is the cohorts, the caliber of the peers. Even if the standards within HGC curriculum doesn't change, I can tell you that if the students there are not as high caliber, the caliber of the program will change. And the only ones who suffer are the "highly gifted" kids who really do need such a program. I don't need to make any assumptions to realize this.

Who says the caliber of student will not be as high?

What does "broaden the definition of highly gifted" mean to you?

It means "broaden the definition of highly gifted". The admissions process was previously based on teacher recommendations and that one test that was probably the CogAT. Now they're looking at more information -- MAP and PARCC scores, for example.

Except then they said that they would only be looking at Q1 of 5th grade for MS Pilot program. There are no PARCC scores from Q1 of 5th Grade, only end of year from 4th Grade.

PARCC isn't even taken until the end of 3rd grade; there's no way PARCC can be factored in the HGC decision.

MCPS stated that PARCC and MAP scores will be used for the pilot for the middle school magnets this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I honestly don't think the caliber of MCPS magnet programs is suffering. I think that is a gross exaggeration and I'm not sure what you are basing it on.

This is the first year of the change, so you won't see the change immediately, and MCPS will never admit it either.

conjecture. but I supposed you will believe what you want.

Have you ever had a kid in HGC? I have, and I can tell you that a big part of the HGC is the cohorts, the caliber of the peers. Even if the standards within HGC curriculum doesn't change, I can tell you that if the students there are not as high caliber, the caliber of the program will change. And the only ones who suffer are the "highly gifted" kids who really do need such a program. I don't need to make any assumptions to realize this.

Who says the caliber of student will not be as high?

What does "broaden the definition of highly gifted" mean to you?

It means "broaden the definition of highly gifted". The admissions process was previously based on teacher recommendations and that one test that was probably the CogAT. Now they're looking at more information -- MAP and PARCC scores, for example.

Sorry - problem quoting
Except then they said that they would only be looking at Q1 of 5th grade for MS Pilot program. There are no PARCC scores from Q1 of 5th Grade, only end of year from 4th Grade.

Except then they said that they would only be looking at Q1 of 5th grade for MS Pilot program. There are no PARCC scores from Q1 of 5th Grade, only end of year from 4th Grade.

PARCC isn't even taken until the end of 3rd grade; there's no way PARCC can be factored in the HGC decision.

MCPS stated that PARCC and MAP scores will be used for the pilot for the middle school magnets this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a big secret, and I wonder why they are so secretive about the stats.

One of the most intelligent comments on this thread. Someone should get this. Journalists are you out there?

As an Asian-American parent, I am very interested in knowing how these acceptance rates are determined. While Asian-American students do have a large representation within HGC and magnet programs, a huge majority of Asian-Americans are not taken in the programs, perhaps for the sake of diversity. The admissions should be based on merit.

Yes, accessibility is an issue and so MCPS must test all students in 3rd grade at school first - as that would be the fairest thing for everyone. But, lets stop penalizing Asian-Americans for working hard.

On the one hand, there are lots more super-bright Asian-American students and white students than spots (according to DCUM).

On the other hand, it is impossible to increase the proportion of black students and Hispanic students without admitting unqualified students based on their race/ethnicity (also according to DCUM).

Is there an explanation for this apparent contradiction that doesn't involve the idea that the fraction of black students and Hispanic students who are super-bright is lower than the fraction of Asian-American and white students who are super-bright?

Here's a thought: The super bright AA and Hispanics are on subsidy at the privates in order to "increase diversity" there. So y'all can fight it out at the publics.