Oldest kids in class do better, even through college - NPR

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oldest son turned 5 at the end of May & our district cutoff is the end of August. I would never have considered holding him back, but did not know how many of his peers would be a full year older. He was small for his age, which made it worse. With the exception of a couple of boys, he was the youngest boy in his grade all through high school. He did well academically and was even a National Merit Scholar, but he lacked friends and had difficulty competing in sports. He actually enjoys sports a lot and it was hard for him to face so many disappointments in that regard. He's objectively good looking, but did not date in high school and still really doesn't. He had crushes on girls, but he looked so much younger and is only now starting to look more like a man than a boy at age 20.

Fast-forward to college and I can see countless ways where it would be better for him to be among the oldest in his class. He works as a resident assistant in a dorm, and during his sophomore year many of the male resident freshmen on his floor were older than he was!

We had a surprise baby in our mid-40s, born at the end of June. There was no way in the world that kid was going to kindergarten after just turning 5. He is among the oldest in his class in 3rd grade now, but definitely not the oldest. He was really bored in kindergarten but we supplemented at home and I can see countless benefits for him today. We have two other children and they are among the oldest in their grades by virtue of birthday, but after the cut off. It's just easier for them in so many ways.

I honestly think my oldest son's life would be very different, and happier, if his school years had been more socially fulfilling. He definitely wishes he hadn't been the youngest boy in almost any situation. There are worse things in life, but I wish with all my heart I could go back to that day when we decided to send him to K on schedule. I would change that decision for sure.

Post again after your surprise baby, whom you kept out of school for an additional year, is as old as your oldest, whom you sent on time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When was he in K? There is a lot of sitting these days. And maybe he doesn't like recess because he never learned how to play in preschool. Sounds like he went to a preschool that doesn't understand child development. Poor kid.

Kids go to preschool to learn how to play?

Kids who are overscheduled and never have unstructured playtime don't learn how to play. Bad for developing executive functioning skills.

[Anonymous]

Very interesting! New Yorker ran a piece on this a few years ago with the exact opposite conclusion.

Youngest Kid, Smartest Kid?

These skills translate to a mindset that is crucial to lifelong achievement. In a way, the choice between redshirting and not is the choice between providing your child with a maturity boost or a challenge. While there is certainly an absolute benefit to being bigger and stronger, learning to deal with and overcome obstacles also has a long-lasting effect. It’s a quality the psychologist Angela Duckworth calls “grit,” and Carol Dweck dubs the “incremental mindset”: the knowledge that perseverance, dedication, and motivation can help you where an absolute advantage may not immediately come to the rescue. If you’ve always been praised as the best and brightest, chances are that that self-perception will eventually backfire; if you’ve had to earn your distinctions, they’re more likely to last.

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting! New Yorker ran a piece on this a few years ago with the exact opposite conclusion.

Youngest Kid, Smartest Kid?

These skills translate to a mindset that is crucial to lifelong achievement. In a way, the choice between redshirting and not is the choice between providing your child with a maturity boost or a challenge. While there is certainly an absolute benefit to being bigger and stronger, learning to deal with and overcome obstacles also has a long-lasting effect. It’s a quality the psychologist Angela Duckworth calls “grit,” and Carol Dweck dubs the “incremental mindset”: the knowledge that perseverance, dedication, and motivation can help you where an absolute advantage may not immediately come to the rescue. If you’ve always been praised as the best and brightest, chances are that that self-perception will eventually backfire; if you’ve had to earn your distinctions, they’re more likely to last.

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

People always link to that article in these discussions, but there has been so much other research for and against redshirting since it came out that I think it's a little irrelevant at this point. And about the whole grit thing... as people of younger children in the grade will tell you, just because you were the oldest doesn't necessarily mean you are the best or won't have to try hard in various aspects of school and life in general. Older children will likely be more mature and possibly less stressed about tasks like lining up, behavior systems, or transitions, but they won't be the best at everything because no one is. Most likely they will have opportunities to develop grit. And also, they will likely feel competent as opposed to inferior, as they ar tackles g academic tasks at a more developmentally appropriate time, which also has lasting effect through school.

[Anonymous]

If your child can't handle the "stress" of "lining up" perhaps intervention is needed, not redshirting. That's really unusual, especially as most of these redshirted kids have been in daycare or preschool or both since the age of two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting! New Yorker ran a piece on this a few years ago with the exact opposite conclusion.

Youngest Kid, Smartest Kid?

These skills translate to a mindset that is crucial to lifelong achievement. In a way, the choice between redshirting and not is the choice between providing your child with a maturity boost or a challenge. While there is certainly an absolute benefit to being bigger and stronger, learning to deal with and overcome obstacles also has a long-lasting effect. It’s a quality the psychologist Angela Duckworth calls “grit,” and Carol Dweck dubs the “incremental mindset”: the knowledge that perseverance, dedication, and motivation can help you where an absolute advantage may not immediately come to the rescue. If you’ve always been praised as the best and brightest, chances are that that self-perception will eventually backfire; if you’ve had to earn your distinctions, they’re more likely to last.

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

People always link to that article in these discussions, but there has been so much other research for and against redshirting since it came out that I think it's a little irrelevant at this point. And about the whole grit thing... as people of younger children in the grade will tell you, just because you were the oldest doesn't necessarily mean you are the best or won't have to try hard in various aspects of school and life in general. Older children will likely be more mature and possibly less stressed about tasks like lining up, behavior systems, or transitions, but they won't be the best at everything because no one is. Most likely they will have opportunities to develop grit. And also, they will likely feel competent as opposed to inferior, as they ar tackles g academic tasks at a more developmentally appropriate time, which also has lasting effect through school.

They aren't more mature, they are a year older, so what someone says is mature for a child a year older is not really mature. We found when kids are held back they act younger and when younger kids are with older ones they act older. Our child does much better being the youngest. It depends on the child. But, to say an 8 year old 2nd grader is more mature than a 7 year old is false as it should be based on age. That 7 year old will probably have equal maturity when they are 8 too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting! New Yorker ran a piece on this a few years ago with the exact opposite conclusion.

Youngest Kid, Smartest Kid?

These skills translate to a mindset that is crucial to lifelong achievement. In a way, the choice between redshirting and not is the choice between providing your child with a maturity boost or a challenge. While there is certainly an absolute benefit to being bigger and stronger, learning to deal with and overcome obstacles also has a long-lasting effect. It’s a quality the psychologist Angela Duckworth calls “grit,” and Carol Dweck dubs the “incremental mindset”: the knowledge that perseverance, dedication, and motivation can help you where an absolute advantage may not immediately come to the rescue. If you’ve always been praised as the best and brightest, chances are that that self-perception will eventually backfire; if you’ve had to earn your distinctions, they’re more likely to last.

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

People always link to that article in these discussions, but there has been so much other research for and against redshirting since it came out that I think it's a little irrelevant at this point. And about the whole grit thing... as people of younger children in the grade will tell you, just because you were the oldest doesn't necessarily mean you are the best or won't have to try hard in various aspects of school and life in general. Older children will likely be more mature and possibly less stressed about tasks like lining up, behavior systems, or transitions, but they won't be the best at everything because no one is. Most likely they will have opportunities to develop grit. And also, they will likely feel competent as opposed to inferior, as they ar tackles g academic tasks at a more developmentally appropriate time, which also has lasting effect through school.

They aren't more mature, they are a year older, so what someone says is mature for a child a year older is not really mature. We found when kids are held back they act younger and when younger kids are with older ones they act older. Our child does much better being the youngest. It depends on the child. But, to say an 8 year old 2nd grader is more mature than a 7 year old is false as it should be based on age. That 7 year old will probably have equal maturity when they are 8 too.

I hear what you ar saying, but my point is that they are more mature for the situation that they are experiencing. Yes, the 7 year old will be more mature when they are 8, but that is a year later and a whole other set of expectations will be put upon both children at the same time then. For kindergarten an almost 6 year old and an almost 5 year old will be expected to line up, sit for extended periods of time, and transition accordingly. Of course not in all cases, but an older child may find these things less stressful because they can follow these directions more easily. Of course the almost 5 year old will be able to do them eventually, but in the moment it doesn't matter as both children are expected to do it with the same outcome at the same time. One may be able to, just because of maturity, and one may not. Obviously some 4 year olds can do these tasks no problems and some 6 year olds struggle with them, but overall I believe older children (and not just red shirted kids, just the older ones) have an advantage here. FWIW, I am an educator and have experienced this with kids firsthand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting! New Yorker ran a piece on this a few years ago with the exact opposite conclusion.

Youngest Kid, Smartest Kid?

These skills translate to a mindset that is crucial to lifelong achievement. In a way, the choice between redshirting and not is the choice between providing your child with a maturity boost or a challenge. While there is certainly an absolute benefit to being bigger and stronger, learning to deal with and overcome obstacles also has a long-lasting effect. It’s a quality the psychologist Angela Duckworth calls “grit,” and Carol Dweck dubs the “incremental mindset”: the knowledge that perseverance, dedication, and motivation can help you where an absolute advantage may not immediately come to the rescue. If you’ve always been praised as the best and brightest, chances are that that self-perception will eventually backfire; if you’ve had to earn your distinctions, they’re more likely to last.

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

This seems a bit less obscure and more mainstream.

[Anonymous]

Go with what you think is best for your child. I would redshirt if I were in doubt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most "summer birthday boys"? Summer birthdays range from part of June through part of September. Who would redshirt a June or July kid?

Private school families commonly red shirt kids born as early as May.

My child who went to an expensive private pre k and k was in the "spring" 4's- which ended up being 16 kids with April and may birthdays. Of those- TWO, TWO of 16 went to K the following year- 14 were redshirted. My late May boy went on time and is doing great.

I am honestly floored by this. I have a DS with a late April birthday and couldn't imagine keeping him back. Gaming the system is real!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most "summer birthday boys"? Summer birthdays range from part of June through part of September. Who would redshirt a June or July kid?

Private school families commonly red shirt kids born as early as May.

My child who went to an expensive private pre k and k was in the "spring" 4's- which ended up being 16 kids with April and may birthdays. Of those- TWO, TWO of 16 went to K the following year- 14 were redshirted. My late May boy went on time and is doing great.

I am honestly floored by this. I have a DS with a late April birthday and couldn't imagine keeping him back. Gaming the system is real!!

I don't believe this is real, but IMO there is a big difference between people doing this and people redshirting a kid a week or two from the cut off. Yeah, it's still not following rules, but NO cut offs in the US are April, while plenty are a range between summer and fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most "summer birthday boys"? Summer birthdays range from part of June through part of September. Who would redshirt a June or July kid?

Private school families commonly red shirt kids born as early as May.

My child who went to an expensive private pre k and k was in the "spring" 4's- which ended up being 16 kids with April and may birthdays. Of those- TWO, TWO of 16 went to K the following year- 14 were redshirted. My late May boy went on time and is doing great.

I am honestly floored by this. I have a DS with a late April birthday and couldn't imagine keeping him back. Gaming the system is real!!

I don't believe this is real, but IMO there is a big difference between people doing this and people redshirting a kid a week or two from the cut off. Yeah, it's still not following rules, but NO cut offs in the US are April, while plenty are a range between summer and fall.

They are all following the rules. In NOVA you can hold back for a full year. We should change the rules

[Anonymous]

It's real, why would I lie? It was a Jewish school on the mainline of Philadelphia. That was my experience (this was two years ago).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When was he in K? There is a lot of sitting these days. And maybe he doesn't like recess because he never learned how to play in preschool. Sounds like he went to a preschool that doesn't understand child development. Poor kid.

Kids go to preschool to learn how to play?

Kids who are overscheduled and never have unstructured playtime don't learn how to play. Bad for developing executive functioning skills.

Several years ago in New York parents paid pros to teach their children how to play. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's real, why would I lie? It was a Jewish school on the mainline of Philadelphia. That was my experience (this was two years ago).

Last yr my January born DC was 2nd youngest in his class. This year kids had to do a tell about yourself, and he's the only one still 9 in his 4th grade class. Gah.