Christmas at McDonald's

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- I think you are spending a lot of energy wondering why DH's family is full of awful human beings. You know the answer. They are dysfunctional and emotionally manipulative/abusive. It's not uncommon for families like that to have some kind of scapegoat, ie DH.

I think that you are best off doing what you can to support your husband's emotional health. If he is not ready to cut ties then at least mitigate the toxic interactions by eating in advance, bringing dessert and playing dumb to any of their mind games. you can try to arm chair diagnose and justify all you want but the reality is their behavior is socially unacceptable and they are unwilling to change it.

They are not going to change. This is a house full of velociprators (see here for the joke http://captainawkward.com/2012/09/17/353-354-bathrooms-butts-and-boundaries/#comment-27246

+ millions!! OP here. Thanks for the laugh. Should I be concerned that DH covers both topics mentioned in that article (both cleanliness/keeping house and monopolizing the loo)? Excellent read, BTW, thank you. Indeed DH's family (and DH) have abuse and control issues - this has been brought up to me/us before. It is exacerbated by their being overly concerned with how they project themselves to others. When they get called on their behaviors, all hell breaks loose!

Here is the good news: MIL can't stand herself. She is not the nicest person. She has been inviting extended family, and we talk to them - they are normal! In addition to the extended family providing someone to talk to, they also keep MIL on her best behavior.

I have covered this before, but am more than happy to keep stating this fact: we do bring dishes for everyone to share. We ask MIL, she says no, but we bring enough for everyone. What I noticed this year is that SILs (MILs daughters) are covering for MILs lack of planning, or lack of caring. The SILs actually brought more *main* dishes, so there would be enough, even for the additional guests. So, SILs are admitting there is a problem, and they don't want others to know about it, either (much like MIL).

In other words, MIL does not want to come out and admit she is in the wrong; but someone is recently covering for her, In addition, MIL is keenly concerned (not aware, just concerned) with what others think, so it works out. Progress, friends, progress. The key is having them feel like they are answering to someone (i.e.: the extra guests). As I am not a professional, this is my guess.

And how was YOUR holiday?

[Anonymous]

When you arrived this year, was everyone else there and already eating, or were you there before the meal began?

[Anonymous]

I still don't understand. OP, if you bring food with you then how is there no food for you when you get there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If you really insist on going, pack up your own cooler of food, go to there house and eat. If they ask why you did that just say "because as you pointed out, there is nothing left here for us to eat" And continue eating.

OP here. Do you know how many times per week I must say this, at least to myself, if not to my husband? He has some traits of his moms that are definitely insane (not using it by slang, using it literally). Enough that I am concerned for him; not for his safety, but definitely for his well being. Now it is affecting us. This "holiday tradition" is a perfect example. He is agreeing to say something to her. Please, hope it works.

I also like the idea of putting our coats on and going out for food if there is none left. THIS is the type of thing she needs. If she isn't publicly embarrassed, and is able to turn it on us, she feels she has won. This is how she operates. She is extremely underhanded and sneaky, and extremely concerned with appearances. More than I can emphasize. Thank you so much for the productive suggestions! I am finally starting to look forward to Christmas again, after all these years.

It would probably be a happier Christmas for all of you if you just spent the day with your own husband and children in your own home.

In your last post, it sounds as though you would be okay with publicly embarrassing her on Christmas Day in her own home. That's not really what Christmas is about. You would feel bad about it afterward, and what would your children think of their mother humiliating their grandmother? Would that be a good scene for them to remember when they are adults?

It sounds like you have wonderful memories of your own Christmases with your family of origin. Why not try to recreate the good things your family did to make Christmas a happy time for you as a child? Then your own children could grow up to have the kinds of lovely memories that you have.

They would learn that it's ok to stand up for oneself, even to one's relations. Even to one's elders. They'll learn it's ok not to be doormats. It's a very valuable lesson, the earlier learnt, the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- I think you are spending a lot of energy wondering why DH's family is full of awful human beings. You know the answer. They are dysfunctional and emotionally manipulative/abusive. It's not uncommon for families like that to have some kind of scapegoat, ie DH.

I think that you are best off doing what you can to support your husband's emotional health. If he is not ready to cut ties then at least mitigate the toxic interactions by eating in advance, bringing dessert and playing dumb to any of their mind games. you can try to arm chair diagnose and justify all you want but the reality is their behavior is socially unacceptable and they are unwilling to change it.

They are not going to change. This is a house full of velociprators (see here for the joke http://captainawkward.com/2012/09/17/353-354-bathrooms-butts-and-boundaries/#comment-27246

+ millions!! OP here. Thanks for the laugh. Should I be concerned that DH covers both topics mentioned in that article (both cleanliness/keeping house and monopolizing the loo)? Excellent read, BTW, thank you. Indeed DH's family (and DH) have abuse and control issues - this has been brought up to me/us before. It is exacerbated by their being overly concerned with how they project themselves to others. When they get called on their behaviors, all hell breaks loose!

Here is the good news: MIL can't stand herself. She is not the nicest person. She has been inviting extended family, and we talk to them - they are normal! In addition to the extended family providing someone to talk to, they also keep MIL on her best behavior.

I have covered this before, but am more than happy to keep stating this fact: we do bring dishes for everyone to share. We ask MIL, she says no, but we bring enough for everyone. What I noticed this year is that SILs (MILs daughters) are covering for MILs lack of planning, or lack of caring. The SILs actually brought more *main* dishes, so there would be enough, even for the additional guests. So, SILs are admitting there is a problem, and they don't want others to know about it, either (much like MIL).

In other words, MIL does not want to come out and admit she is in the wrong; but someone is recently covering for her, In addition, MIL is keenly concerned (not aware, just concerned) with what others think, so it works out. Progress, friends, progress. The key is having them feel like they are answering to someone (i.e.: the extra guests). As I am not a professional, this is my guess.

And how was YOUR holiday?

If you do bring dishes to share, then why is there no food for your kids to eat? The kids can eat the food that you bring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+ millions!! OP here. Thanks for the laugh. Should I be concerned that DH covers both topics mentioned in that article (both cleanliness/keeping house and monopolizing the loo)? Excellent read, BTW, thank you. Indeed DH's family (and DH) have abuse and control issues - this has been brought up to me/us before. It is exacerbated by their being overly concerned with how they project themselves to others. When they get called on their behaviors, all hell breaks loose!

Here is the good news: MIL can't stand herself. She is not the nicest person. She has been inviting extended family, and we talk to them - they are normal! In addition to the extended family providing someone to talk to, they also keep MIL on her best behavior.

I have covered this before, but am more than happy to keep stating this fact: we do bring dishes for everyone to share. We ask MIL, she says no, but we bring enough for everyone. What I noticed this year is that SILs (MILs daughters) are covering for MILs lack of planning, or lack of caring. The SILs actually brought more *main* dishes, so there would be enough, even for the additional guests. So, SILs are admitting there is a problem, and they don't want others to know about it, either (much like MIL).

In other words, MIL does not want to come out and admit she is in the wrong; but someone is recently covering for her, In addition, MIL is keenly concerned (not aware, just concerned) with what others think, so it works out. Progress, friends, progress. The key is having them feel like they are answering to someone (i.e.: the extra guests). As I am not a professional, this is my guess.

And how was YOUR holiday?

You said in your first post that you eat Pillsbury rolls and McDonalds every year, but in this post you say you bring dishes for everyone. I'm confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If you really insist on going, pack up your own cooler of food, go to there house and eat. If they ask why you did that just say "because as you pointed out, there is nothing left here for us to eat" And continue eating.

OP here. Do you know how many times per week I must say this, at least to myself, if not to my husband? He has some traits of his moms that are definitely insane (not using it by slang, using it literally). Enough that I am concerned for him; not for his safety, but definitely for his well being. Now it is affecting us. This "holiday tradition" is a perfect example. He is agreeing to say something to her. Please, hope it works.

I also like the idea of putting our coats on and going out for food if there is none left. THIS is the type of thing she needs. If she isn't publicly embarrassed, and is able to turn it on us, she feels she has won. This is how she operates. She is extremely underhanded and sneaky, and extremely concerned with appearances. More than I can emphasize. Thank you so much for the productive suggestions! I am finally starting to look forward to Christmas again, after all these years.

It would probably be a happier Christmas for all of you if you just spent the day with your own husband and children in your own home.

In your last post, it sounds as though you would be okay with publicly embarrassing her on Christmas Day in her own home. That's not really what Christmas is about. You would feel bad about it afterward, and what would your children think of their mother humiliating their grandmother? Would that be a good scene for them to remember when they are adults?

It sounds like you have wonderful memories of your own Christmases with your family of origin. Why not try to recreate the good things your family did to make Christmas a happy time for you as a child? Then your own children could grow up to have the kinds of lovely memories that you have.

They would learn that it's ok to stand up for oneself, even to one's relations. Even to one's elders. They'll learn it's ok not to be doormats. It's a very valuable lesson, the earlier learnt, the better.

I think that there is a difference between standing up for oneself and humiliating another person. My mother always stood up for herself with my grandmother in a kind and respectful way. I am glad that I do not have memories of my mother publicly embarrassing my grandmother to teach her a lesson. It would have taught me to be uncaring of the feelings of others and could have had a bad effect on my own future interactions with friends and family members.

[Anonymous]

OP, where's the beef?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If you really insist on going, pack up your own cooler of food, go to there house and eat. If they ask why you did that just say "because as you pointed out, there is nothing left here for us to eat" And continue eating.

OP here. Do you know how many times per week I must say this, at least to myself, if not to my husband? He has some traits of his moms that are definitely insane (not using it by slang, using it literally). Enough that I am concerned for him; not for his safety, but definitely for his well being. Now it is affecting us. This "holiday tradition" is a perfect example. He is agreeing to say something to her. Please, hope it works.

I also like the idea of putting our coats on and going out for food if there is none left. THIS is the type of thing she needs. If she isn't publicly embarrassed, and is able to turn it on us, she feels she has won. This is how she operates. She is extremely underhanded and sneaky, and extremely concerned with appearances. More than I can emphasize. Thank you so much for the productive suggestions! I am finally starting to look forward to Christmas again, after all these years.

It would probably be a happier Christmas for all of you if you just spent the day with your own husband and children in your own home.

In your last post, it sounds as though you would be okay with publicly embarrassing her on Christmas Day in her own home. That's not really what Christmas is about. You would feel bad about it afterward, and what would your children think of their mother humiliating their grandmother? Would that be a good scene for them to remember when they are adults?

It sounds like you have wonderful memories of your own Christmases with your family of origin. Why not try to recreate the good things your family did to make Christmas a happy time for you as a child? Then your own children could grow up to have the kinds of lovely memories that you have.

They would learn that it's ok to stand up for oneself, even to one's relations. Even to one's elders. They'll learn it's ok not to be doormats. It's a very valuable lesson, the earlier learnt, the better.

I think that there is a difference between standing up for oneself and humiliating another person. My mother always stood up for herself with my grandmother in a kind and respectful way. I am glad that I do not have memories of my mother publicly embarrassing my grandmother to teach her a lesson. It would have taught me to be uncaring of the feelings of others and could have had a bad effect on my own future interactions with friends and family members.

I suppose it depends on the severity of the abuse that prompted any reaction. If one abuses without expecting a reaction, that is true sickness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If you really insist on going, pack up your own cooler of food, go to there house and eat. If they ask why you did that just say "because as you pointed out, there is nothing left here for us to eat" And continue eating.

OP here. Do you know how many times per week I must say this, at least to myself, if not to my husband? He has some traits of his moms that are definitely insane (not using it by slang, using it literally). Enough that I am concerned for him; not for his safety, but definitely for his well being. Now it is affecting us. This "holiday tradition" is a perfect example. He is agreeing to say something to her. Please, hope it works.

I also like the idea of putting our coats on and going out for food if there is none left. THIS is the type of thing she needs. If she isn't publicly embarrassed, and is able to turn it on us, she feels she has won. This is how she operates. She is extremely underhanded and sneaky, and extremely concerned with appearances. More than I can emphasize. Thank you so much for the productive suggestions! I am finally starting to look forward to Christmas again, after all these years.

It would probably be a happier Christmas for all of you if you just spent the day with your own husband and children in your own home.

In your last post, it sounds as though you would be okay with publicly embarrassing her on Christmas Day in her own home. That's not really what Christmas is about. You would feel bad about it afterward, and what would your children think of their mother humiliating their grandmother? Would that be a good scene for them to remember when they are adults?

It sounds like you have wonderful memories of your own Christmases with your family of origin. Why not try to recreate the good things your family did to make Christmas a happy time for you as a child? Then your own children could grow up to have the kinds of lovely memories that you have.

They would learn that it's ok to stand up for oneself, even to one's relations. Even to one's elders. They'll learn it's ok not to be doormats. It's a very valuable lesson, the earlier learnt, the better.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since we are talking about difficult ILs - I also have given her the gifts for DH and DC over the years, and wrapped them. She pays for them, but she seems to have no problem getting anyone else's gift. Should I bring this up?

OP here. (Also above)

Are you for real? What kind of English is this?

Maybe the OP is ESL, how does that explain you being a bitch?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you arrived this year, was everyone else there and already eating, or were you there before the meal began?

OP here. MIL was on her best behavior, and did not tell guests to start before everyone was there, as she had in years past. She told her daughters to take on a bulk of the food, even thought she (MIL) was supposed to be "hosting". I had asked everyone to tell me what to bring, they said nothing, but we brought some food anyway.

Here is the key: With the additional guests being invited, MIL puts on her best face. We leave the house before the new guests leave, to ensure the buffer is there during our visit. We are grateful that MIL is so concerned with saving face, it works in our favor. Now, if only this was true one other time during the year.......

Thank you to those who are sympathetic, supportive, and who know what a sticky situation this is, and want to be helpful about it. As for the other PP, who insists on "challenging" me, I suspect it is MIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If you really insist on going, pack up your own cooler of food, go to there house and eat. If they ask why you did that just say "because as you pointed out, there is nothing left here for us to eat" And continue eating.

OP here. Do you know how many times per week I must say this, at least to myself, if not to my husband? He has some traits of his moms that are definitely insane (not using it by slang, using it literally). Enough that I am concerned for him; not for his safety, but definitely for his well being. Now it is affecting us. This "holiday tradition" is a perfect example. He is agreeing to say something to her. Please, hope it works.

I also like the idea of putting our coats on and going out for food if there is none left. THIS is the type of thing she needs. If she isn't publicly embarrassed, and is able to turn it on us, she feels she has won. This is how she operates. She is extremely underhanded and sneaky, and extremely concerned with appearances. More than I can emphasize. Thank you so much for the productive suggestions! I am finally starting to look forward to Christmas again, after all these years.

It would probably be a happier Christmas for all of you if you just spent the day with your own husband and children in your own home.

In your last post, it sounds as though you would be okay with publicly embarrassing her on Christmas Day in her own home. That's not really what Christmas is about. You would feel bad about it afterward, and what would your children think of their mother humiliating their grandmother? Would that be a good scene for them to remember when they are adults?

It sounds like you have wonderful memories of your own Christmases with your family of origin. Why not try to recreate the good things your family did to make Christmas a happy time for you as a child? Then your own children could grow up to have the kinds of lovely memories that you have.

They would learn that it's ok to stand up for oneself, even to one's relations. Even to one's elders. They'll learn it's ok not to be doormats. It's a very valuable lesson, the earlier learnt, the better.

I think that there is a difference between standing up for oneself and humiliating another person. My mother always stood up for herself with my grandmother in a kind and respectful way. I am glad that I do not have memories of my mother publicly embarrassing my grandmother to teach her a lesson. It would have taught me to be uncaring of the feelings of others and could have had a bad effect on my own future interactions with friends and family members.

I am the poster you're quoting. I'm fed up to my back teeth with all the abuser coddling that goes on in the world. I'll take the abused person's side, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If you really insist on going, pack up your own cooler of food, go to there house and eat. If they ask why you did that just say "because as you pointed out, there is nothing left here for us to eat" And continue eating.

OP here. Do you know how many times per week I must say this, at least to myself, if not to my husband? He has some traits of his moms that are definitely insane (not using it by slang, using it literally). Enough that I am concerned for him; not for his safety, but definitely for his well being. Now it is affecting us. This "holiday tradition" is a perfect example. He is agreeing to say something to her. Please, hope it works.

I also like the idea of putting our coats on and going out for food if there is none left. THIS is the type of thing she needs. If she isn't publicly embarrassed, and is able to turn it on us, she feels she has won. This is how she operates. She is extremely underhanded and sneaky, and extremely concerned with appearances. More than I can emphasize. Thank you so much for the productive suggestions! I am finally starting to look forward to Christmas again, after all these years.

It would probably be a happier Christmas for all of you if you just spent the day with your own husband and children in your own home.

In your last post, it sounds as though you would be okay with publicly embarrassing her on Christmas Day in her own home. That's not really what Christmas is about. You would feel bad about it afterward, and what would your children think of their mother humiliating their grandmother? Would that be a good scene for them to remember when they are adults?

It sounds like you have wonderful memories of your own Christmases with your family of origin. Why not try to recreate the good things your family did to make Christmas a happy time for you as a child? Then your own children could grow up to have the kinds of lovely memories that you have.

They would learn that it's ok to stand up for oneself, even to one's relations. Even to one's elders. They'll learn it's ok not to be doormats. It's a very valuable lesson, the earlier learnt, the better.

I think that there is a difference between standing up for oneself and humiliating another person. My mother always stood up for herself with my grandmother in a kind and respectful way. I am glad that I do not have memories of my mother publicly embarrassing my grandmother to teach her a lesson. It would have taught me to be uncaring of the feelings of others and could have had a bad effect on my own future interactions with friends and family members.

I am the poster you're quoting. I'm fed up to my back teeth with all the abuser coddling that goes on in the world. I'll take the abused person's side, thanks.

+1000

Well said, thank you! Why should MIL get a pass? Especially if she has been a wolf in sheep's clothing the entire time? No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know all about my dysfunction. My family of origin is totally fucked. While it's left it's left it's damage on my siblings and I, we're doing pretty well. The older I get, the more I'm surprised the relationships between us are really good. Instead of pitting us against one another, we're allied. Not sure how that happened when the opposite is usually true. It's probably because we always laughed together about the shitty things that happened even though it was so painful. But, we still deal with family drama and with our respective ILs.

My siblings and I take the "let's fuck with them" approach. If food is an issue at an IL's house, we'd bring plenty for everyone and wear the "Mask of Obliviousness". In fact, the "Mask of Obliviousness" is an excellent device to have where family drama is involved. We developed it in response to our family dysfunction along with a few others (Mask of Catatonia, Mask of Teflon, Mask of Ignorance, etc.) Will your ILs get pissed that your disrupting the family tradition? Sure, they will but by wearing the Mask of Obliviouslness, you won't be aware of what you've done. You'll chirpily comment on how nice it is to have such good food and so much of it. Oh, be sure to pack leftovers for everyone! Don't you just LOVE having leftovers? Behind the mask, you will enjoy seeking their discomfort and annoyance that you are oblivious to what you've done. If they do happen to speak to you about it, you put on the Mask of Ignorance.

This is brilliant pp and you've given name to how I act with my inlaws. They are nowhere near as dysfunctional as ops, but I have been doing the mask of obliviousness for years with my passive aggressive MIL. It works wonders!

+1. My MIL stopped trying to mess with me because I was just purposefully oblivious to her machinations. Pp describes it perfectly. She gives my SIL fits because SIL lets MIL get to her. I keep trying to explain it to SIL, but she can't seem to get the hang of not reacting.