Lafayette/Bucknell vs Nescacs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Total dollars are up mainly from a few large donors. Well documented alumni annual giving rates are down. Schools like Holy Cross school with perhaps highest giving rate, Notre Dame and maybe Davidson are outliers as these 3 are more moderate. Whole thread on here recently about Princeton’s decline and Duke is also much lower. Would be interested in what Vanderbilt’s alumni giving rates is now.

Princeton literally leads the country in alumni giving. Maybe you should learn to generalize trends before trying to look at specific instances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd slot Lafayette at or just below the Bates/Colby tier. (But I also think "perceived prestige" should be, at most, a very small factor in anyone's matriculation decision.)

Agree that Lafayette is more like Conn College/Trinity in terms of reputation. I like all of these schools and taught for over a decade at a NESCAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Midd abtly describes the current status of Middlebury. It is solidly middle of pack NESCAC and they are light years behind Amherst, Williams, and Bowdoin. Midd boosters are in denial. Not much prestige space between Colby and Middlebury.

Why are you so bitter? This sounds personal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst, Wiliams, and Bowdoin will weather the demographic cliff with their $2 billion endowments. Colby and Holy Cross have 2 of the best Presidents in higher education. IMO, Colgate had 3,000 app drop, Midd smaller decine but rankings have nosedived probably more than any other LAC. Forget Conn College, Trinity has seen much better days. Bucknell
Lafayette, and Lehigh fighting it out for kids who see Pennsylvania as a destination(yikes). Wesleyan and Bates carving out the really woke crowd. Lesser prestige schools like Hobart and St. Lawrence in tough spots.

Colby president has done nothing but game the rankings like NE.

Yeah I didn’t really get that comment- there’s a lot of stronger higher ed leaders in the LAC space too- Michael Roth, Maud Mendel, Hiram Chodosh…

Micheal Roth is one of the best College leaders period. I’m interested in seeing what Ian Baucomb does at Middlebury as well. In any period except now he would have been a top candidate to take over at UVA before he left for Middlebury.

Ian Baucom just accomplished something I once thought impossible--he got a compliment from Charles Murray on X. Yes, that Charles Murray.

[Anonymous]

Bucknell over Lafayette and as everyone knows only 2 NESCACS with any clout. Loads of wealthy full pay kids are migrating South. Duke received record 60k apps while Vandy picking up steam. It’s not a mirage all those SEC car stickers on Range Rovers and MB suvs that trend will only strengthen. Good luck to Colgate, Bates, Hamilton, Middlebury, and Colby. Most full pay kids like the amenities that Southern schools offer and for those families that despise Red State schools their destinations are big city schools like Emory, Brown or Penn. Those northern Vermont and Maine schools are remote and located in very low diversity towns with Bates being the exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what has Wesleyan’s trajectory been in his 18 years. If Wesleyan were a publicly traded stock analysts would rate it Sell.

Yup, record apps and strong class size with a new science facility about to come online. Doesn’t have to lure kids with merit discounts. Definitely a sell.

Please go back to stroking the WASP schools.

A new science facility, because Wesleyan is way behind its competition in resources for the sciences and for years has been dragging its feet. Every WASP school and even lower tiers like Bowdoin and Middlebury updated their science facilities before Wesleyan- Hell CLAREMONT MCKENNA, with its fake science program, got a whole building up and new curriculum before Wesleyan.

OK, troll. I only have myself to blame for engaging you. Enjoy the rest of your Monday!

[Anonymous]

Stop trying to "tier" small liberal arts colleges. They are all excellent and academically extremely similar. Visit and choose the one with the vibe you like best.

[Anonymous]

I put Trinity with Colby (and maybe a little above) and Bates with ConnColl. Don't just group by location. Lafayette is really appealing these days and is a good size. I think I'd slot it in with Trinity/Colby.

[Anonymous]

I would put Lehigh above Lafayette and Bucknell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I put Trinity with Colby (and maybe a little above) and Bates with ConnColl. Don't just group by location. Lafayette is really appealing these days and is a good size. I think I'd slot it in with Trinity/Colby.

You clearly no little of NESCAS. Trinity and Colby are never grouped together. Sorry Trinity fan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Midd abtly describes the current status of Middlebury. It is solidly middle of pack NESCAC and they are light years behind Amherst, Williams, and Bowdoin. Midd boosters are in denial. Not much prestige space between Colby and Middlebury.

Why are you so bitter? This sounds personal.

It really does sound personal. This is from the other active SLAC thread which also veers into I don't know what.

Let's look at things over time. Here is the average ranking for the past 35 years of USNWR rankings

Williams
Amherst
Swarthmore
Pomona
Wellesley
Bowdoin
Middlebury
Carleton
Haverford
Claremont McKenna
Davidson
Wesleyan
Smith
Vassar

These rankings are very stable over time with only a couple of exceptions. Haverford started slipping a bit after their endowment debacle and then with the inclusion of DEI metrics starting in 2020. Middlebury slipped a tiny bit with the inclusion of DEI metrics in and then last year with the change in the student resources calculation which required them to calculate their resources per student using a students number which is 70% higher than it actually is.

The most interesting thing about pulling the data together was how stable the numbers are over a long period of time. Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are very stable. Wellesley, Pomona, Bowdoin, and Middlebury trade places back and forth until the DEI changes move Middlebury down a couple of notches in 2020. This also happened to Haverford likely because Middlebury and Haverford have smaller endowments relative to the schools above them and correspondingly fewer kids meeting the Pell grant numbers. Carleton, Haverford, CMC, and Davidson were also pretty stable with Carleton comfortably settled in at 8 occasionally swapping places with 7 in the above list and the others swapping with each other. Haverford is the only school among the long term top 10 which is experiencing a relatively steady trend downward over the past 10 years. It looks like their endowment debacle has finally left them unable to keep up with the resources of the top schools.

[Anonymous]

Based on that chart in 2026 rankings coming out soon does anyone objectively feel Smith and Vassar are anywhere near top25. Wellesley yes Smith no. Would group Hamilton and Middlebury with Bates and Colby. The Colby-Midd academic rivalry is on and Colby is on a roll. Agree their President has them in a great spot with near completion of $1 billion capital campaign and their athletic facilities are amazing. By contrast Midd has struggled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on that chart in 2026 rankings coming out soon does anyone objectively feel Smith and Vassar are anywhere near top25. Wellesley yes Smith no. Would group Hamilton and Middlebury with Bates and Colby. The Colby-Midd academic rivalry is on and Colby is on a roll. Agree their President has them in a great spot with near completion of $1 billion capital campaign and their athletic facilities are amazing. By contrast Midd has struggled.

You are quite the Colby booster. Colby is doing well but there is no Colby-Midd academic rivalry. You do not have to try to disparage other schools like Smith or Middlebury while supporting your school. Smith is still Smith and Middlebury has not struggled at all except in the eyes of the Middlebury hater here on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would put Lehigh above Lafayette and Bucknell.

I kinda agree but my DC said to younger sibling who’s early in college search “no one is excited to go to Lehigh”. I think at least Bucknell kids really belong there, and enjoy it - if you play a sport at bucknell it’s a pretty magical place to spend 4 years and then work alumn network for a good to very good to potentially excellent NYC job. Worse paths out there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on that chart in 2026 rankings coming out soon does anyone objectively feel Smith and Vassar are anywhere near top25. Wellesley yes Smith no. Would group Hamilton and Middlebury with Bates and Colby. The Colby-Midd academic rivalry is on and Colby is on a roll. Agree their President has them in a great spot with near completion of $1 billion capital campaign and their athletic facilities are amazing. By contrast Midd has struggled.

Let's talk about Colby. In the last 37 years of USNews rankings, Colby has been in the top 10 zero times. Its highest-ever rank was 11 in 2022. Last year it was at 25, as it was the year before. It's average ranking over this time period is 19.

Over the same time period, Middlebury has ranked in the top 10 thirty-one times, and in the top 5 thirteen times.

Even after years of playing games (free applications, not making public its CDS, etc.), Colby still is having trouble breaking the top 25.

It's a good school and is getting better, but there's no academic rivalry with Middlebury. Their academic rival is Bates.