Should financial aid in private school be stricter?

[Anonymous]

One would hope. BUT when the mere conversation is shut down by people saying ‘it’s none of your damn business’ it makes it very easy for this type of parent to operate. A
1099 or whatever from parent who has a company that doesn’t make that much money is all they need. There isn’t even a conversation with a human being about this at any of these schools - it’s a computer program so they don’t even have the internal angst of having to lie to a persons face.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We get 80% financial aid and our HHI is about $160k with one kid.

That's pretty absurd to get that amount on that income.

We were surprised also but it definitely makes life easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We get 80% financial aid and our HHI is about $160k with one kid.

That's pretty absurd to get that amount on that income.

We were surprised also but it definitely makes life easier.

We get similar aid (75%) with 3 kids, our income is 250k though. Our school's income limit for aid is almost 300k, but they do consider liabilities. Most of my friends who are full pay with 1-3 kids are probably making 600k plus. I live in California, and most of these families live in large homes in cities with good public schools where a small bungalow is well over a million dollars. We live in a nice neighborhood with working class people and not great schools and our house is about a million dollars and smaller than many of my friends. I feel pretty comfortable, but the difference is on our income we couldn't afford full pay which would be over 100k per year for all three of our kids, while obviously some of my friends can. I've also noticed that there are many families with parents (although I can only assume their aid status) who are prominent in their field (like mine) even if they aren't very high income. This prominence seems to be appreciated by the school administration..

[Anonymous]

Actual low income folks won't apply. I thought I was middle income but the schools didn't have the $$$ to pay for my kid starting in kindergarten through 12th grade. They suggested reapplying in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We get 80% financial aid and our HHI is about $160k with one kid.

That's pretty absurd to get that amount on that income.

We were surprised also but it definitely makes life easier.

We get similar aid (75%) with 3 kids, our income is 250k though. Our school's income limit for aid is almost 300k, but they do consider liabilities. Most of my friends who are full pay with 1-3 kids are probably making 600k plus. I live in California, and most of these families live in large homes in cities with good public schools where a small bungalow is well over a million dollars. We live in a nice neighborhood with working class people and not great schools and our house is about a million dollars and smaller than many of my friends. I feel pretty comfortable, but the difference is on our income we couldn't afford full pay which would be over 100k per year for all three of our kids, while obviously some of my friends can. I've also noticed that there are many families with parents (although I can only assume their aid status) who are prominent in their field (like mine) even if they aren't very high income. This prominence seems to be appreciated by the school administration..

That's really gross you get that much aid given you choose to have three kids. If you can afford a million dollar house, you can afford to pay your fair share. YOU ARE HIGH INCOME.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We get 80% financial aid and our HHI is about $160k with one kid.

That's pretty absurd to get that amount on that income.

We were surprised also but it definitely makes life easier.

We get similar aid (75%) with 3 kids, our income is 250k though. Our school's income limit for aid is almost 300k, but they do consider liabilities. Most of my friends who are full pay with 1-3 kids are probably making 600k plus. I live in California, and most of these families live in large homes in cities with good public schools where a small bungalow is well over a million dollars. We live in a nice neighborhood with working class people and not great schools and our house is about a million dollars and smaller than many of my friends. I feel pretty comfortable, but the difference is on our income we couldn't afford full pay which would be over 100k per year for all three of our kids, while obviously some of my friends can. I've also noticed that there are many families with parents (although I can only assume their aid status) who are prominent in their field (like mine) even if they aren't very high income. This prominence seems to be appreciated by the school administration..

That's really gross you get that much aid given you choose to have three kids. If you can afford a million dollar house, you can afford to pay your fair share. YOU ARE HIGH INCOME.

That confirms my original concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads continue to prove that DCUM has no idea what poverty actually looks like. What everyone is describing as “poor” are actually lower middle class families who prioritize private education so they limit vacations, drive old cars, use public transit, etc. They need FA to close the gap and make private school a possibility.

I grew up poor. I never went on vacation until I went to WV with a boyfriend in high school to visit his family. Vacations aren’t something poor ppl don’t do some years. It something they can’t afford to do ever.

But posters here don’t even want lower middle income families in their schools and less low income. That’s my point. Move to a financial aid system prioritizing low income families.

You’re looking to create what’s described as a barbell effect simply to make yourself feel good. This has been studied and is generally not considered a desirable outcome.

Yes, let’s give financial aid to wealthy families and exclude low income families. Makes total sense!

These families are not low income. Low income aren't welcome at these schools. How many kids do you know at these privates on food stamps, section 8, medicaid? None. Those are the deserving kids.

If you want those kids you are going to have to provide 1)free transportation across the city at multiple points in time during the day (before school, after school, after sports) 2)free after care for the younger years 3)free books, sports fees (spring break costs, etc), uniforms, class dues. 4)free tutoring

Instead of $57k/year you are probably looking at close to $100K/student all-in.

You're talking as if a low-income kid has never attended a private school in U.S. history.

That’s true financial aid. How many attend your school?

It used to be that African American didn’t attend private school in the past and eventually changed. There are changes in the society that you cannot control. I think that idea that it is important to help people in a disadvantaged situation won’t go away, ever.

What are you talking about? Your post is both incoherent and false.

Btw, here’s a little history lesson: African Americans have been attending private high schools (day and boarding) for well over a century. For example, boarding schools like Phillips Exeter and Deerfield Academy started admitting AA students in the mid-1800s. Piney Woods School is a historically AA boarding school that was founded 116 years ago (it’s still operating). Google it and educate yourself.

I looked at the old photos in many elite schools in dc and they did not admit African Americans in 40s and 50s. I am not saying that I supported that policy. I am talking about objective reality of how exclusive the schools were and how this segregation continues against low income families.

Really?

“GDS was founded in 1945 as the first integrated school in the District of Columbia.”
https://www.gds.org/about/at-a-glance#

“In 1956, [Sidwell] enrolled Jeffrey Mazique, an African American student, in kindergarten…” https://www.sidwell.edu/about/history

“NCS' first African-American students who entered in the school in 1957…”
https://ncs.myschoolapp.com/page/news-detail?pk=684953&siteId=892&ssl=1#:~:text=On%20Friday%20Feb.%2025%2C%20NCS'%20Black%20Student,'65%2C%20Lucy%20Brown%20Franklin%2DMurray%20'66%2C%20and%20Virginia

Look at holton and Landon in the 50s and then come back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads continue to prove that DCUM has no idea what poverty actually looks like. What everyone is describing as “poor” are actually lower middle class families who prioritize private education so they limit vacations, drive old cars, use public transit, etc. They need FA to close the gap and make private school a possibility.

I grew up poor. I never went on vacation until I went to WV with a boyfriend in high school to visit his family. Vacations aren’t something poor ppl don’t do some years. It something they can’t afford to do ever.

But posters here don’t even want lower middle income families in their schools and less low income. That’s my point. Move to a financial aid system prioritizing low income families.

You’re looking to create what’s described as a barbell effect simply to make yourself feel good. This has been studied and is generally not considered a desirable outcome.

Yes, let’s give financial aid to wealthy families and exclude low income families. Makes total sense!

These families are not low income. Low income aren't welcome at these schools. How many kids do you know at these privates on food stamps, section 8, medicaid? None. Those are the deserving kids.

If you want those kids you are going to have to provide 1)free transportation across the city at multiple points in time during the day (before school, after school, after sports) 2)free after care for the younger years 3)free books, sports fees (spring break costs, etc), uniforms, class dues. 4)free tutoring

Instead of $57k/year you are probably looking at close to $100K/student all-in.

You're talking as if a low-income kid has never attended a private school in U.S. history.

That’s true financial aid. How many attend your school?

It used to be that African American didn’t attend private school in the past and eventually changed. There are changes in the society that you cannot control. I think that idea that it is important to help people in a disadvantaged situation won’t go away, ever.

What are you talking about? Your post is both incoherent and false.

Btw, here’s a little history lesson: African Americans have been attending private high schools (day and boarding) for well over a century. For example, boarding schools like Phillips Exeter and Deerfield Academy started admitting AA students in the mid-1800s. Piney Woods School is a historically AA boarding school that was founded 116 years ago (it’s still operating). Google it and educate yourself.

I looked at the old photos in many elite schools in dc and they did not admit African Americans in 40s and 50s. I am not saying that I supported that policy. I am talking about objective reality of how exclusive the schools were and how this segregation continues against low income families.

Really?

“GDS was founded in 1945 as the first integrated school in the District of Columbia.”
https://www.gds.org/about/at-a-glance#

“In 1956, [Sidwell] enrolled Jeffrey Mazique, an African American student, in kindergarten…” https://www.sidwell.edu/about/history

“NCS' first African-American students who entered in the school in 1957…”
https://ncs.myschoolapp.com/page/news-detail?pk=684953&siteId=892&ssl=1#:~:text=On%20Friday%20Feb.%2025%2C%20NCS'%20Black%20Student,'65%2C%20Lucy%20Brown%20Franklin%2DMurray%20'66%2C%20and%20Virginia

All your examples confirm my statement : I looked at the old photos in many elite schools in dc and they did not admit African Americans in 40s and 50s.

Yes they admites very few in 1945 in gds and in 56 and 57 in sidwell and NCS.

If you are so picky I will rephrase my statement: in sidwell and ncs the didn’t admit African American in 40s and the first half of the 50s. In the gds African Americans were excluded in the first half of the 40s. Happy?

In any case my point is that there has been progress including African Americans, but more inclusion is needed . That’s all. Nothing against African Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We get 80% financial aid and our HHI is about $160k with one kid.

That's pretty absurd to get that amount on that income.

We were surprised also but it definitely makes life easier.

We get similar aid (75%) with 3 kids, our income is 250k though. Our school's income limit for aid is almost 300k, but they do consider liabilities. Most of my friends who are full pay with 1-3 kids are probably making 600k plus. I live in California, and most of these families live in large homes in cities with good public schools where a small bungalow is well over a million dollars. We live in a nice neighborhood with working class people and not great schools and our house is about a million dollars and smaller than many of my friends. I feel pretty comfortable, but the difference is on our income we couldn't afford full pay which would be over 100k per year for all three of our kids, while obviously some of my friends can. I've also noticed that there are many families with parents (although I can only assume their aid status) who are prominent in their field (like mine) even if they aren't very high income. This prominence seems to be appreciated by the school administration..

That's really gross you get that much aid given you choose to have three kids. If you can afford a million dollar house, you can afford to pay your fair share. YOU ARE HIGH INCOME.

Very fortunately you aren’t the one making decisions at my kids school. There’s a reason they offer aid to families making 300k, and it’s because in the Bay Area that is middle class. On our campus, we are middle class. Also very fortunately, they offer full aid to families who they have determined cannot make any contribution and I’m grateful for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We get 80% financial aid and our HHI is about $160k with one kid.

That's pretty absurd to get that amount on that income.

We were surprised also but it definitely makes life easier.

We get similar aid (75%) with 3 kids, our income is 250k though. Our school's income limit for aid is almost 300k, but they do consider liabilities. Most of my friends who are full pay with 1-3 kids are probably making 600k plus. I live in California, and most of these families live in large homes in cities with good public schools where a small bungalow is well over a million dollars. We live in a nice neighborhood with working class people and not great schools and our house is about a million dollars and smaller than many of my friends. I feel pretty comfortable, but the difference is on our income we couldn't afford full pay which would be over 100k per year for all three of our kids, while obviously some of my friends can. I've also noticed that there are many families with parents (although I can only assume their aid status) who are prominent in their field (like mine) even if they aren't very high income. This prominence seems to be appreciated by the school administration..

That's really gross you get that much aid given you choose to have three kids. If you can afford a million dollar house, you can afford to pay your fair share. YOU ARE HIGH INCOME.

You don't understand what high income is haha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads continue to prove that DCUM has no idea what poverty actually looks like. What everyone is describing as “poor” are actually lower middle class families who prioritize private education so they limit vacations, drive old cars, use public transit, etc. They need FA to close the gap and make private school a possibility.

I grew up poor. I never went on vacation until I went to WV with a boyfriend in high school to visit his family. Vacations aren’t something poor ppl don’t do some years. It something they can’t afford to do ever.

But posters here don’t even want lower middle income families in their schools and less low income. That’s my point. Move to a financial aid system prioritizing low income families.

You’re looking to create what’s described as a barbell effect simply to make yourself feel good. This has been studied and is generally not considered a desirable outcome.

Yes, let’s give financial aid to wealthy families and exclude low income families. Makes total sense!

These families are not low income. Low income aren't welcome at these schools. How many kids do you know at these privates on food stamps, section 8, medicaid? None. Those are the deserving kids.

If you want those kids you are going to have to provide 1)free transportation across the city at multiple points in time during the day (before school, after school, after sports) 2)free after care for the younger years 3)free books, sports fees (spring break costs, etc), uniforms, class dues. 4)free tutoring

Instead of $57k/year you are probably looking at close to $100K/student all-in.

You're talking as if a low-income kid has never attended a private school in U.S. history.

That’s true financial aid. How many attend your school?

It used to be that African American didn’t attend private school in the past and eventually changed. There are changes in the society that you cannot control. I think that idea that it is important to help people in a disadvantaged situation won’t go away, ever.

What are you talking about? Your post is both incoherent and false.

Btw, here’s a little history lesson: African Americans have been attending private high schools (day and boarding) for well over a century. For example, boarding schools like Phillips Exeter and Deerfield Academy started admitting AA students in the mid-1800s. Piney Woods School is a historically AA boarding school that was founded 116 years ago (it’s still operating). Google it and educate yourself.

I looked at the old photos in many elite schools in dc and they did not admit African Americans in 40s and 50s. I am not saying that I supported that policy. I am talking about objective reality of how exclusive the schools were and how this segregation continues against low income families.

Really?

“GDS was founded in 1945 as the first integrated school in the District of Columbia.”
https://www.gds.org/about/at-a-glance#

“In 1956, [Sidwell] enrolled Jeffrey Mazique, an African American student, in kindergarten…” https://www.sidwell.edu/about/history

“NCS' first African-American students who entered in the school in 1957…”
https://ncs.myschoolapp.com/page/news-detail?pk=684953&siteId=892&ssl=1#:~:text=On%20Friday%20Feb.%2025%2C%20NCS'%20Black%20Student,'65%2C%20Lucy%20Brown%20Franklin%2DMurray%20'66%2C%20and%20Virginia

Look at holton and Landon in the 50s and then come back.

One of the PPs referenced elite private schools. So why would I bother looking at Holton or Landon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads continue to prove that DCUM has no idea what poverty actually looks like. What everyone is describing as “poor” are actually lower middle class families who prioritize private education so they limit vacations, drive old cars, use public transit, etc. They need FA to close the gap and make private school a possibility.

I grew up poor. I never went on vacation until I went to WV with a boyfriend in high school to visit his family. Vacations aren’t something poor ppl don’t do some years. It something they can’t afford to do ever.

But posters here don’t even want lower middle income families in their schools and less low income. That’s my point. Move to a financial aid system prioritizing low income families.

You’re looking to create what’s described as a barbell effect simply to make yourself feel good. This has been studied and is generally not considered a desirable outcome.

Yes, let’s give financial aid to wealthy families and exclude low income families. Makes total sense!

These families are not low income. Low income aren't welcome at these schools. How many kids do you know at these privates on food stamps, section 8, medicaid? None. Those are the deserving kids.

If you want those kids you are going to have to provide 1)free transportation across the city at multiple points in time during the day (before school, after school, after sports) 2)free after care for the younger years 3)free books, sports fees (spring break costs, etc), uniforms, class dues. 4)free tutoring

Instead of $57k/year you are probably looking at close to $100K/student all-in.

You're talking as if a low-income kid has never attended a private school in U.S. history.

That’s true financial aid. How many attend your school?

It used to be that African American didn’t attend private school in the past and eventually changed. There are changes in the society that you cannot control. I think that idea that it is important to help people in a disadvantaged situation won’t go away, ever.

What are you talking about? Your post is both incoherent and false.

Btw, here’s a little history lesson: African Americans have been attending private high schools (day and boarding) for well over a century. For example, boarding schools like Phillips Exeter and Deerfield Academy started admitting AA students in the mid-1800s. Piney Woods School is a historically AA boarding school that was founded 116 years ago (it’s still operating). Google it and educate yourself.

I looked at the old photos in many elite schools in dc and they did not admit African Americans in 40s and 50s. I am not saying that I supported that policy. I am talking about objective reality of how exclusive the schools were and how this segregation continues against low income families.

Really?

“GDS was founded in 1945 as the first integrated school in the District of Columbia.”
https://www.gds.org/about/at-a-glance#

“In 1956, [Sidwell] enrolled Jeffrey Mazique, an African American student, in kindergarten…” https://www.sidwell.edu/about/history

“NCS' first African-American students who entered in the school in 1957…”
https://ncs.myschoolapp.com/page/news-detail?pk=684953&siteId=892&ssl=1#:~:text=On%20Friday%20Feb.%2025%2C%20NCS'%20Black%20Student,'65%2C%20Lucy%20Brown%20Franklin%2DMurray%20'66%2C%20and%20Virginia

All your examples confirm my statement : I looked at the old photos in many elite schools in dc and they did not admit African Americans in 40s and 50s.

Yes they admites very few in 1945 in gds and in 56 and 57 in sidwell and NCS.

If you are so picky I will rephrase my statement: in sidwell and ncs the didn’t admit African American in 40s and the first half of the 50s. In the gds African Americans were excluded in the first half of the 40s. Happy?

In any case my point is that there has been progress including African Americans, but more inclusion is needed . That’s all. Nothing against African Americans.

I provide facts, backed by clear and tangible evidence. You provide your fact-free opinions, while continuing to move the goal posts.

To quote JHC, “I only debate my equals. All others, I teach.” I think we’re done here. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

[Anonymous]

They want some economic diversity but they're largely not prepared to deal with potentially bombastic class and cultural clashes that could result by bringing in truly low income kids who would have to be full ride+. It's easier to subsidize a middle class, college educated couple and their kids who couldn't afford private school but have kids who can, "blend" enough and share similar educational values. That's really it. Let's not kid ourselves, these schools are bastions of extreme privilege, but if they started giving full rides, needing to offer free lunch, subsidize field trips etc. In any way en masse people would FREAK out. So yeah, you're going to get some dual Feds with PhDs bringing in 300k. I think the schools prefer that in so many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They want some economic diversity but they're largely not prepared to deal with potentially bombastic class and cultural clashes that could result by bringing in truly low income kids who would have to be full ride+. It's easier to subsidize a middle class, college educated couple and their kids who couldn't afford private school but have kids who can, "blend" enough and share similar educational values. That's really it. Let's not kid ourselves, these schools are bastions of extreme privilege, but if they started giving full rides, needing to offer free lunch, subsidize field trips etc. In any way en masse people would FREAK out. So yeah, you're going to get some dual Feds with PhDs bringing in 300k. I think the schools prefer that in so many ways.

I agree. I’m the poster above with a 250k HHI and 3 kids who get significant aid in private school. Our school does prioritize income diversity which we certainly offer since most of the families probably are making over 500k. There are also families who make significantly less than us- when we initially applied we made less than 100k. What they DON’T want is to deal with high maintenance, entitled parents or alternatively parents who are not engaged in their child’s learning. They do offer full rides but will not accept a child whose needs they cannot meet (significant family instability, etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads continue to prove that DCUM has no idea what poverty actually looks like. What everyone is describing as “poor” are actually lower middle class families who prioritize private education so they limit vacations, drive old cars, use public transit, etc. They need FA to close the gap and make private school a possibility.

I grew up poor. I never went on vacation until I went to WV with a boyfriend in high school to visit his family. Vacations aren’t something poor ppl don’t do some years. It something they can’t afford to do ever.

But posters here don’t even want lower middle income families in their schools and less low income. That’s my point. Move to a financial aid system prioritizing low income families.

You’re looking to create what’s described as a barbell effect simply to make yourself feel good. This has been studied and is generally not considered a desirable outcome.

Yes, let’s give financial aid to wealthy families and exclude low income families. Makes total sense!

These families are not low income. Low income aren't welcome at these schools. How many kids do you know at these privates on food stamps, section 8, medicaid? None. Those are the deserving kids.

If you want those kids you are going to have to provide 1)free transportation across the city at multiple points in time during the day (before school, after school, after sports) 2)free after care for the younger years 3)free books, sports fees (spring break costs, etc), uniforms, class dues. 4)free tutoring

Instead of $57k/year you are probably looking at close to $100K/student all-in.

You're talking as if a low-income kid has never attended a private school in U.S. history.

That’s true financial aid. How many attend your school?

It used to be that African American didn’t attend private school in the past and eventually changed. There are changes in the society that you cannot control. I think that idea that it is important to help people in a disadvantaged situation won’t go away, ever.

What are you talking about? Your post is both incoherent and false.

Btw, here’s a little history lesson: African Americans have been attending private high schools (day and boarding) for well over a century. For example, boarding schools like Phillips Exeter and Deerfield Academy started admitting AA students in the mid-1800s. Piney Woods School is a historically AA boarding school that was founded 116 years ago (it’s still operating). Google it and educate yourself.

I looked at the old photos in many elite schools in dc and they did not admit African Americans in 40s and 50s. I am not saying that I supported that policy. I am talking about objective reality of how exclusive the schools were and how this segregation continues against low income families.

Really?

“GDS was founded in 1945 as the first integrated school in the District of Columbia.”
https://www.gds.org/about/at-a-glance#

“In 1956, [Sidwell] enrolled Jeffrey Mazique, an African American student, in kindergarten…” https://www.sidwell.edu/about/history

“NCS' first African-American students who entered in the school in 1957…”
https://ncs.myschoolapp.com/page/news-detail?pk=684953&siteId=892&ssl=1#:~:text=On%20Friday%20Feb.%2025%2C%20NCS'%20Black%20Student,'65%2C%20Lucy%20Brown%20Franklin%2DMurray%20'66%2C%20and%20Virginia

All your examples confirm my statement : I looked at the old photos in many elite schools in dc and they did not admit African Americans in 40s and 50s.

Yes they admites very few in 1945 in gds and in 56 and 57 in sidwell and NCS.

If you are so picky I will rephrase my statement: in sidwell and ncs the didn’t admit African American in 40s and the first half of the 50s. In the gds African Americans were excluded in the first half of the 40s. Happy?

In any case my point is that there has been progress including African Americans, but more inclusion is needed . That’s all. Nothing against African Americans.

I provide facts, backed by clear and tangible evidence. You provide your fact-free opinions, while continuing to move the goal posts.

To quote JHC, “I only debate my equals. All others, I teach.” I think we’re done here. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

Very useful information.