Better odds for full pay applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looks like possibly no schools are truly need blind – only question is whether the blinders come off on the waitlist, or earlier through an algorithm that keeps the AO’s in the blind but uses census tract info to “shape” the class and exclude kids who might need aid. Do we know if these algorithms include applicant specific info such as the colleges the parents attended, their occupation or level of education? Could it include whether the kid applied for financial aid? That would be predictive of full pay and yield and the process could still be blind up to that point – the AO’s wouldn’t have to see this.

Remember, everyone reviewing the application can see that. For some schools (looking at you, Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and more), they ask where siblings go to college. They aren't being nosy. They use this in the EM algorithm.

And yes, parents' places of education are now more important than ever. For two equally qualified candidates to Vanderbilt, if one set of parents went to Stanford (together) and one set went to Michigan State, let me know if you think the algorithm will believe that they are "equal".

Most overlooked part of an application. And often very important. Ask any former AO.

+1
We were told this by a former T10 AO.

How does sibling institution attended have any effect? Like when they see that an applicant's sibling attends Stanford vs Ohio State, what's the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looks like possibly no schools are truly need blind – only question is whether the blinders come off on the waitlist, or earlier through an algorithm that keeps the AO’s in the blind but uses census tract info to “shape” the class and exclude kids who might need aid. Do we know if these algorithms include applicant specific info such as the colleges the parents attended, their occupation or level of education? Could it include whether the kid applied for financial aid? That would be predictive of full pay and yield and the process could still be blind up to that point – the AO’s wouldn’t have to see this.

Remember, everyone reviewing the application can see that. For some schools (looking at you, Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and more), they ask where siblings go to college. They aren't being nosy. They use this in the EM algorithm.

And yes, parents' places of education are now more important than ever. For two equally qualified candidates to Vanderbilt, if one set of parents went to Stanford (together) and one set went to Michigan State, let me know if you think the algorithm will believe that they are "equal".

Most overlooked part of an application. And often very important. Ask any former AO.

+1
We were told this by a former T10 AO.

How does sibling institution attended have any effect? Like when they see that an applicant's sibling attends Stanford vs Ohio State, what's the difference?

Stanford means the family is either rich or poor, Ohio State means donut hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a page in Slate that shows a timeline of the student's clicks on the college's website. It allows the user to hover over any data point and see what page was viewed. I am guessing this goes by IP address, but I am not sure.

Little by little, an understanding of these proprietary algorithms will leak out, and you end up with DCUM parents clicking away on college websites, LOL.

If they are using IP address, how do they know it’s kid A looking since 9th grade and not kid A’s older sibling looking first while A is in 9th/10th and then kid A starts looking at the same school when they are in 11th/12th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Without aid, grants, DEI and affirmative action, is it going to be the year of wealthy Caucasian applicants?

Maybe just getting back to super bright applicants, with fin aid going to those who actually need aid, not the merit-shoppers.

[Anonymous]

Nope, low income is the community AOs are currently focused on admitting.

[Anonymous]

i realize this is an old thread, but wanted to mention fee waivers -- especially common app fee waivers, not separate institutional codes -- as a way to distinguish low income students from the pool of middle class applicants who apply for financial aid.

Seems like a relatively-straightforward way to shape an incoming class with both institutional priorities (e.g. enrolling Pell-eligible students) and budget in mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a page in Slate that shows a timeline of the student's clicks on the college's website. It allows the user to hover over any data point and see what page was viewed. I am guessing this goes by IP address, but I am not sure.

Little by little, an understanding of these proprietary algorithms will leak out, and you end up with DCUM parents clicking away on college websites, LOL.

If they are using IP address, how do they know it’s kid A looking since 9th grade and not kid A’s older sibling looking first while A is in 9th/10th and then kid A starts looking at the same school when they are in 11th/12th?

Or kids mom checking? And I assume it won’t show that Ip address if you are viewing on cellular data on phone which is how much loss do research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looks like possibly no schools are truly need blind – only question is whether the blinders come off on the waitlist, or earlier through an algorithm that keeps the AO’s in the blind but uses census tract info to “shape” the class and exclude kids who might need aid. Do we know if these algorithms include applicant specific info such as the colleges the parents attended, their occupation or level of education? Could it include whether the kid applied for financial aid? That would be predictive of full pay and yield and the process could still be blind up to that point – the AO’s wouldn’t have to see this.

Remember, everyone reviewing the application can see that. For some schools (looking at you, Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and more), they ask where siblings go to college. They aren't being nosy. They use this in the EM algorithm.

And yes, parents' places of education are now more important than ever. For two equally qualified candidates to Vanderbilt, if one set of parents went to Stanford (together) and one set went to Michigan State, let me know if you think the algorithm will believe that they are "equal".

Most overlooked part of an application. And often very important. Ask any former AO.

+1
We were told this by a former T10 AO.

How does sibling institution attended have any effect? Like when they see that an applicant's sibling attends Stanford vs Ohio State, what's the difference?

Stanford means the family is either rich or poor, Ohio State means donut hole.

There's a lot you can tell where the siblings go. It matters....small signals. If your siblings are merit hunting, chances are you will too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope, low income is the community AOs are currently focused on admitting.

Not really. That's one piece (maybe a 1/4). Dig deeper. They don't want donut hole or those who can't contribute in some way to the advancement of the university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i realize this is an old thread, but wanted to mention fee waivers -- especially common app fee waivers, not separate institutional codes -- as a way to distinguish low income students from the pool of middle class applicants who apply for financial aid.

Seems like a relatively-straightforward way to shape an incoming class with both institutional priorities (e.g. enrolling Pell-eligible students) and budget in mind.

Most IECs tell full pay students to NEVER check fee waiver or apply to special scholarships that require extra stuff.....its a way to show you are merit hunting and will hurt the application process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope, low income is the community AOs are currently focused on admitting.

Not really. That's one piece (maybe a 1/4). Dig deeper. They don't want donut hole or those who can't contribute in some way to the advancement of the university.

Having a higher percent of low income and first gen admits helps them climb up the USNWR rankings so they care. USNWR will change criteria down the line and they'll admit the new thing that is being measured. That's how college admissions works. It's not a meritocracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope, low income is the community AOs are currently focused on admitting.

Not really. That's one piece (maybe a 1/4). Dig deeper. They don't want donut hole or those who can't contribute in some way to the advancement of the university.

Having a higher percent of low income and first gen admits helps them climb up the USNWR rankings so they care. USNWR will change criteria down the line and they'll admit the new thing that is being measured. That's how college admissions works. It's not a meritocracy.

I don't disagree.
But they also need MORE full pay with attendant funding cuts. And they'd prefer full pay with a likely/propensity to donate. Seeing some test-optional, very $$$$ private school kids get into Northwestern, Vanderbilt, WashU early this year (not DMV).

Schools are increasingly more and more BARBELLish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i realize this is an old thread, but wanted to mention fee waivers -- especially common app fee waivers, not separate institutional codes -- as a way to distinguish low income students from the pool of middle class applicants who apply for financial aid.

Seems like a relatively-straightforward way to shape an incoming class with both institutional priorities (e.g. enrolling Pell-eligible students) and budget in mind.

Most IECs tell full pay students to NEVER check fee waiver or apply to special scholarships that require extra stuff.....its a way to show you are merit hunting and will hurt the application process.

Another way to look at the willingness of a kid to write extra scholarship essays is that the kid cares enough about the school to spend the time and effort crafting those essays -- a form of demonstrated interest.