Better odds for full pay applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ED is already a method for identifying full pay candidates. To apply ED you have to commit to one college before you know how much merit aid you will get from various schools. That’s a calculation you can only do if you are full pay or willing to take a big risk.

Everyone on Reddit applies to ED and just waits for aid. If they don't get the aid they need they just break the ED.
This happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

With indirects being cut, the rules have changed. Not sure about incoming in '25 but for '26, I think the landscape will be very different and full pay will matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thikn top schools will want to remain need blind, but it will matter a lot during waitlist process IMO.

but you really have to skip that FA box.

Newbie question - Do you need to complete the FA paperwork if you’re clearly full pay but want your kid to be considered for merit at their safeties?

DP. No, you do not. There are a few exceptions, but my understanding from another poster in this forum is that even VT, which is among the few schools requiring FAFSA for non-need-based merit scholarships, will allow you to submit FAFSA later, after you've been awarded the merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory is that need blind schools are need blind in that they don’t look at the applicant’s financial situation individually but they have software that uses statistical analysis to make sure there will be a sufficient percentage of full pay students. The software sets the parameters- pct from private school, pct from this county or that county, etc

What is your evidence for this theory?

AFAIK, not one of the many tell-all books written by adcoms has stated this is true.

Np.
I’ve read on Reddit about the fact that the higher ups do this with software - not the regional AO. They have the software showing full pay % or not and class shaping touches on this.

There are two competing schools of thought in private college counseling these days.

The old school of thought was don’t show your privilege at all. The young regional admissions officers are biased against wealth.

A newer, emerging school of thought is your privilege is part of who you are - show what you’ve done with it and honestly reflect it. If you engage in activities that show immense wealth, they will know. It’s the values you display alongside those activities that matter, and in some ways and for some schools - that wealth could be an advantage.

This is the approach that DC25’s college consultant recommended. While I don’t know for sure if that boosted DC’s app unless/until they view their file as a matriculated student, it certainly didn’t hurt. T5 early admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of information out there about Landscape, and its role in AO review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/18l9emm/is_there_really_a_list_of_the_high_schools_of/


"But US colleges can, and some do, use data about high school locations as part of their contextual evaluation. There is actually a College Board product called Landscape which, among other things, is offered for this purpose. You can read a bit about it here:

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/landscape/comprehensive-data-methodology-overview.pdf

There are two relevant parts of Landscape with respect to your question. As part of the general high school information section, Landscape will categorize high school locations geographically:


Locale: This measure is based on the high school’s location, and relies on the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) system of classifying geographic areas into 4 categories: City, Suburban, Town, and Rural (NCES locale framework).

– City and Suburban types are further divided into Large, Midsize, and Small, based on the population of the city or suburb (e.g., City: Midsize).

– Town and Rural types are further divided into Fringe, Distant, and Remote, based on the proximity of the town or rural area to an urban area (e.g., Rural: Remote).

Landscape also provides various "indicators" for an applicant's residential neighborhood and high school, which are census-tract based:


Neighborhood and high school indicators are provided: (i) at the neighborhood level, which is defined by a student’s census tract, and (ii) at the high school level, which is defined by the census tracts of college-bound seniors at a high school. Applicants from the same census tract share the same neighborhood data and indicators; applicants from the same high school share the same high school data and indicators.

The indicators are:

College attendance: A measure based on the predicted probability that a student from the neighborhood/high school enrolls in a 4-year college (aggregate College Board and National Student Clearinghouse data)

Household structure: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about the number of married or coupled families, single-parent families, and children living under the poverty line (American Community Survey)

Median family income: Median family income among those in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Housing stability: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about vacancy rates, rental vs. home ownership, and mobility/housing turnover (American Community Survey)

Education level: A measure based on typical educational attainment of adults in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Crime: The predicted probability of being a victim of a crime in the neighborhood or neighborhoods represented by the students attending the high school. Data provided by Location, Inc. For more information, please visit http://www.locationinc.com/data.

These 6 indicators are averaged and presented on a 1-100 percentile scale to provide a Neighborhood Average and a High School Average. A higher value on the 1-100 scale indicates a higher level of challenge related to educational opportunities and outcomes.

One of the interesting aspects of this is that high school indicators are (reasonably) determined by the census tracts of the college bound students. As they explain in a footnote:


4. A high school’s college-bound seniors include those who participate in a College Board assessment.

Anyway, point being this is way more sophisticated than a list of high schools in rich zipcodes. But, say, a high school might be categorized as having a Suburban:Large location, and then get relatively low scores on the six "challenge" indicators meaning the college-bound seniors come from census tracts with high college attendance, many two-parent families, high family incomes, lots of owned homes with low vacancies, lots of high-education adults, and low crime.

And of course colleges do not have to use Landscape, or they can supplement it in various ways, as they see fit. But it is helpful to know this exists."

____

"Not a list that crude, but my understanding is products like Landscape (see other post) are regularly used by College Board members in the application process, or some equivalent. This is often implicitly part of what they are referring to when they talk about evaluating applicants in context, resources by type of area (high or low), advantages/disadvantages by type of area, and so on.

Products like Landscape, if the college so chooses, will tag each application with a handy set of residential and high school indicators that the colleges can then look at when evaluating each application. In many cases, many of the competitive applicants are likely to blur together, because of course many of them come from the same sorts of areas and high schools. But if a college is interested in taking context into account in certain cases, or wants to target certain kinds of diversity (still allowed), or so on, it has this sort of product available."

Landscape is used by most colleges. But, no one really knows the extent to which AOs see this aspect. Generally, I don't think they do. Landscape data is not directly showing up in the AO's Slate application review portal. There may be a score somewhere, but it would probably be from the outside enrollment management consultant that uses Landscape data among other factors in the school's yield algorithm. Different schools would be have different algorithms.

What does show up in Slate is website clicks over time. In Slate, AOs can literally hover over a data point on a timeline graph and see what page the applicant clicked on, on a specific date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of information out there about Landscape, and its role in AO review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/18l9emm/is_there_really_a_list_of_the_high_schools_of/


"But US colleges can, and some do, use data about high school locations as part of their contextual evaluation. There is actually a College Board product called Landscape which, among other things, is offered for this purpose. You can read a bit about it here:

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/landscape/comprehensive-data-methodology-overview.pdf

There are two relevant parts of Landscape with respect to your question. As part of the general high school information section, Landscape will categorize high school locations geographically:


Locale: This measure is based on the high school’s location, and relies on the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) system of classifying geographic areas into 4 categories: City, Suburban, Town, and Rural (NCES locale framework).

– City and Suburban types are further divided into Large, Midsize, and Small, based on the population of the city or suburb (e.g., City: Midsize).

– Town and Rural types are further divided into Fringe, Distant, and Remote, based on the proximity of the town or rural area to an urban area (e.g., Rural: Remote).

Landscape also provides various "indicators" for an applicant's residential neighborhood and high school, which are census-tract based:


Neighborhood and high school indicators are provided: (i) at the neighborhood level, which is defined by a student’s census tract, and (ii) at the high school level, which is defined by the census tracts of college-bound seniors at a high school. Applicants from the same census tract share the same neighborhood data and indicators; applicants from the same high school share the same high school data and indicators.

The indicators are:

College attendance: A measure based on the predicted probability that a student from the neighborhood/high school enrolls in a 4-year college (aggregate College Board and National Student Clearinghouse data)

Household structure: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about the number of married or coupled families, single-parent families, and children living under the poverty line (American Community Survey)

Median family income: Median family income among those in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Housing stability: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about vacancy rates, rental vs. home ownership, and mobility/housing turnover (American Community Survey)

Education level: A measure based on typical educational attainment of adults in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Crime: The predicted probability of being a victim of a crime in the neighborhood or neighborhoods represented by the students attending the high school. Data provided by Location, Inc. For more information, please visit http://www.locationinc.com/data.

These 6 indicators are averaged and presented on a 1-100 percentile scale to provide a Neighborhood Average and a High School Average. A higher value on the 1-100 scale indicates a higher level of challenge related to educational opportunities and outcomes.

One of the interesting aspects of this is that high school indicators are (reasonably) determined by the census tracts of the college bound students. As they explain in a footnote:


4. A high school’s college-bound seniors include those who participate in a College Board assessment.

Anyway, point being this is way more sophisticated than a list of high schools in rich zipcodes. But, say, a high school might be categorized as having a Suburban:Large location, and then get relatively low scores on the six "challenge" indicators meaning the college-bound seniors come from census tracts with high college attendance, many two-parent families, high family incomes, lots of owned homes with low vacancies, lots of high-education adults, and low crime.

And of course colleges do not have to use Landscape, or they can supplement it in various ways, as they see fit. But it is helpful to know this exists."

____

"Not a list that crude, but my understanding is products like Landscape (see other post) are regularly used by College Board members in the application process, or some equivalent. This is often implicitly part of what they are referring to when they talk about evaluating applicants in context, resources by type of area (high or low), advantages/disadvantages by type of area, and so on.

Products like Landscape, if the college so chooses, will tag each application with a handy set of residential and high school indicators that the colleges can then look at when evaluating each application. In many cases, many of the competitive applicants are likely to blur together, because of course many of them come from the same sorts of areas and high schools. But if a college is interested in taking context into account in certain cases, or wants to target certain kinds of diversity (still allowed), or so on, it has this sort of product available."

Landscape is used by most colleges. But, no one really knows the extent to which AOs see this aspect. Generally, I don't think they do. Landscape data is not directly showing up in the AO's Slate application review portal. There may be a score somewhere, but it would probably be from the outside enrollment management consultant that uses Landscape data among other factors in the school's yield algorithm. Different schools would be have different algorithms.

What does show up in Slate is website clicks over time. In Slate, AOs can literally hover over a data point on a timeline graph and see what page the applicant clicked on, on a specific date.

I am friends with an AO at a T10 and the VP of Enrollment Management at my R1 public. Both have told me that Landscape and other software (algorithm) are used to shape the class (gender balance, majors, financial aid, merit, etc.) post AO application reviews. The report goes back to the Dean of admissions who instructs AO to make cuts or additions were needed. At my institution and my friend at the T10, the AOs can see the 1-100 percentile scale score described above on Slate within the context of SAT/ACT scores or TO and curriculum rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of information out there about Landscape, and its role in AO review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/18l9emm/is_there_really_a_list_of_the_high_schools_of/


"But US colleges can, and some do, use data about high school locations as part of their contextual evaluation. There is actually a College Board product called Landscape which, among other things, is offered for this purpose. You can read a bit about it here:

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/landscape/comprehensive-data-methodology-overview.pdf

There are two relevant parts of Landscape with respect to your question. As part of the general high school information section, Landscape will categorize high school locations geographically:


Locale: This measure is based on the high school’s location, and relies on the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) system of classifying geographic areas into 4 categories: City, Suburban, Town, and Rural (NCES locale framework).

– City and Suburban types are further divided into Large, Midsize, and Small, based on the population of the city or suburb (e.g., City: Midsize).

– Town and Rural types are further divided into Fringe, Distant, and Remote, based on the proximity of the town or rural area to an urban area (e.g., Rural: Remote).

Landscape also provides various "indicators" for an applicant's residential neighborhood and high school, which are census-tract based:


Neighborhood and high school indicators are provided: (i) at the neighborhood level, which is defined by a student’s census tract, and (ii) at the high school level, which is defined by the census tracts of college-bound seniors at a high school. Applicants from the same census tract share the same neighborhood data and indicators; applicants from the same high school share the same high school data and indicators.

The indicators are:

College attendance: A measure based on the predicted probability that a student from the neighborhood/high school enrolls in a 4-year college (aggregate College Board and National Student Clearinghouse data)

Household structure: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about the number of married or coupled families, single-parent families, and children living under the poverty line (American Community Survey)

Median family income: Median family income among those in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Housing stability: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about vacancy rates, rental vs. home ownership, and mobility/housing turnover (American Community Survey)

Education level: A measure based on typical educational attainment of adults in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Crime: The predicted probability of being a victim of a crime in the neighborhood or neighborhoods represented by the students attending the high school. Data provided by Location, Inc. For more information, please visit http://www.locationinc.com/data.

These 6 indicators are averaged and presented on a 1-100 percentile scale to provide a Neighborhood Average and a High School Average. A higher value on the 1-100 scale indicates a higher level of challenge related to educational opportunities and outcomes.

One of the interesting aspects of this is that high school indicators are (reasonably) determined by the census tracts of the college bound students. As they explain in a footnote:


4. A high school’s college-bound seniors include those who participate in a College Board assessment.

Anyway, point being this is way more sophisticated than a list of high schools in rich zipcodes. But, say, a high school might be categorized as having a Suburban:Large location, and then get relatively low scores on the six "challenge" indicators meaning the college-bound seniors come from census tracts with high college attendance, many two-parent families, high family incomes, lots of owned homes with low vacancies, lots of high-education adults, and low crime.

And of course colleges do not have to use Landscape, or they can supplement it in various ways, as they see fit. But it is helpful to know this exists."

____

"Not a list that crude, but my understanding is products like Landscape (see other post) are regularly used by College Board members in the application process, or some equivalent. This is often implicitly part of what they are referring to when they talk about evaluating applicants in context, resources by type of area (high or low), advantages/disadvantages by type of area, and so on.

Products like Landscape, if the college so chooses, will tag each application with a handy set of residential and high school indicators that the colleges can then look at when evaluating each application. In many cases, many of the competitive applicants are likely to blur together, because of course many of them come from the same sorts of areas and high schools. But if a college is interested in taking context into account in certain cases, or wants to target certain kinds of diversity (still allowed), or so on, it has this sort of product available."

Landscape is used by most colleges. But, no one really knows the extent to which AOs see this aspect. Generally, I don't think they do. Landscape data is not directly showing up in the AO's Slate application review portal. There may be a score somewhere, but it would probably be from the outside enrollment management consultant that uses Landscape data among other factors in the school's yield algorithm. Different schools would be have different algorithms.

What does show up in Slate is website clicks over time. In Slate, AOs can literally hover over a data point on a timeline graph and see what page the applicant clicked on, on a specific date.

I am friends with an AO at a T10 and the VP of Enrollment Management at my R1 public. Both have told me that Landscape and other software (algorithm) are used to shape the class (gender balance, majors, financial aid, merit, etc.) post AO application reviews. The report goes back to the Dean of admissions who instructs AO to make cuts or additions were needed. At my institution and my friend at the T10, the AOs can see the 1-100 percentile scale score described above on Slate within the context of SAT/ACT scores or TO and curriculum rigor.

Forgot to add that I was told this is standard practice in the industry based on their experience working at several schools and knowledge gained from attending professional conferences and development workshops.

[Anonymous]

It might not play out this year, but certainly would impact next year's admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With indirects being cut, the rules have changed. Not sure about incoming in '25 but for '26, I think the landscape will be very different and full pay will matter.

From what we hear from private's CCO, the rules have changed this year. The budget implications and cuts are too significant. Ask your CCO for what conversations they are having with AOs off-the-record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of information out there about Landscape, and its role in AO review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/18l9emm/is_there_really_a_list_of_the_high_schools_of/


"But US colleges can, and some do, use data about high school locations as part of their contextual evaluation. There is actually a College Board product called Landscape which, among other things, is offered for this purpose. You can read a bit about it here:

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/landscape/comprehensive-data-methodology-overview.pdf

There are two relevant parts of Landscape with respect to your question. As part of the general high school information section, Landscape will categorize high school locations geographically:


Locale: This measure is based on the high school’s location, and relies on the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) system of classifying geographic areas into 4 categories: City, Suburban, Town, and Rural (NCES locale framework).

– City and Suburban types are further divided into Large, Midsize, and Small, based on the population of the city or suburb (e.g., City: Midsize).

– Town and Rural types are further divided into Fringe, Distant, and Remote, based on the proximity of the town or rural area to an urban area (e.g., Rural: Remote).

Landscape also provides various "indicators" for an applicant's residential neighborhood and high school, which are census-tract based:


Neighborhood and high school indicators are provided: (i) at the neighborhood level, which is defined by a student’s census tract, and (ii) at the high school level, which is defined by the census tracts of college-bound seniors at a high school. Applicants from the same census tract share the same neighborhood data and indicators; applicants from the same high school share the same high school data and indicators.

The indicators are:

College attendance: A measure based on the predicted probability that a student from the neighborhood/high school enrolls in a 4-year college (aggregate College Board and National Student Clearinghouse data)

Household structure: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about the number of married or coupled families, single-parent families, and children living under the poverty line (American Community Survey)

Median family income: Median family income among those in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Housing stability: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about vacancy rates, rental vs. home ownership, and mobility/housing turnover (American Community Survey)

Education level: A measure based on typical educational attainment of adults in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Crime: The predicted probability of being a victim of a crime in the neighborhood or neighborhoods represented by the students attending the high school. Data provided by Location, Inc. For more information, please visit http://www.locationinc.com/data.

These 6 indicators are averaged and presented on a 1-100 percentile scale to provide a Neighborhood Average and a High School Average. A higher value on the 1-100 scale indicates a higher level of challenge related to educational opportunities and outcomes.

One of the interesting aspects of this is that high school indicators are (reasonably) determined by the census tracts of the college bound students. As they explain in a footnote:


4. A high school’s college-bound seniors include those who participate in a College Board assessment.

Anyway, point being this is way more sophisticated than a list of high schools in rich zipcodes. But, say, a high school might be categorized as having a Suburban:Large location, and then get relatively low scores on the six "challenge" indicators meaning the college-bound seniors come from census tracts with high college attendance, many two-parent families, high family incomes, lots of owned homes with low vacancies, lots of high-education adults, and low crime.

And of course colleges do not have to use Landscape, or they can supplement it in various ways, as they see fit. But it is helpful to know this exists."

____

"Not a list that crude, but my understanding is products like Landscape (see other post) are regularly used by College Board members in the application process, or some equivalent. This is often implicitly part of what they are referring to when they talk about evaluating applicants in context, resources by type of area (high or low), advantages/disadvantages by type of area, and so on.

Products like Landscape, if the college so chooses, will tag each application with a handy set of residential and high school indicators that the colleges can then look at when evaluating each application. In many cases, many of the competitive applicants are likely to blur together, because of course many of them come from the same sorts of areas and high schools. But if a college is interested in taking context into account in certain cases, or wants to target certain kinds of diversity (still allowed), or so on, it has this sort of product available."

Landscape is used by most colleges. But, no one really knows the extent to which AOs see this aspect. Generally, I don't think they do. Landscape data is not directly showing up in the AO's Slate application review portal. There may be a score somewhere, but it would probably be from the outside enrollment management consultant that uses Landscape data among other factors in the school's yield algorithm. Different schools would be have different algorithms.

What does show up in Slate is website clicks over time. In Slate, AOs can literally hover over a data point on a timeline graph and see what page the applicant clicked on, on a specific date.

I am friends with an AO at a T10 and the VP of Enrollment Management at my R1 public. Both have told me that Landscape and other software (algorithm) are used to shape the class (gender balance, majors, financial aid, merit, etc.) post AO application reviews. The report goes back to the Dean of admissions who instructs AO to make cuts or additions were needed. At my institution and my friend at the T10, the AOs can see the 1-100 percentile scale score described above on Slate within the context of SAT/ACT scores or TO and curriculum rigor.

DP. Thanks. It sounds like the bolded is where algorithms really comes into play. My guess is that Landscape may be more useful for the value it adds in the financial area than for score context. The AOs may really be privy to the entirety of reasoning behind the additions and cuts that the Dean of Admissions makes based on the algorithm results for class shaping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of information out there about Landscape, and its role in AO review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/18l9emm/is_there_really_a_list_of_the_high_schools_of/


"But US colleges can, and some do, use data about high school locations as part of their contextual evaluation. There is actually a College Board product called Landscape which, among other things, is offered for this purpose. You can read a bit about it here:

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/landscape/comprehensive-data-methodology-overview.pdf

There are two relevant parts of Landscape with respect to your question. As part of the general high school information section, Landscape will categorize high school locations geographically:


Locale: This measure is based on the high school’s location, and relies on the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) system of classifying geographic areas into 4 categories: City, Suburban, Town, and Rural (NCES locale framework).

– City and Suburban types are further divided into Large, Midsize, and Small, based on the population of the city or suburb (e.g., City: Midsize).

– Town and Rural types are further divided into Fringe, Distant, and Remote, based on the proximity of the town or rural area to an urban area (e.g., Rural: Remote).

Landscape also provides various "indicators" for an applicant's residential neighborhood and high school, which are census-tract based:


Neighborhood and high school indicators are provided: (i) at the neighborhood level, which is defined by a student’s census tract, and (ii) at the high school level, which is defined by the census tracts of college-bound seniors at a high school. Applicants from the same census tract share the same neighborhood data and indicators; applicants from the same high school share the same high school data and indicators.

The indicators are:

College attendance: A measure based on the predicted probability that a student from the neighborhood/high school enrolls in a 4-year college (aggregate College Board and National Student Clearinghouse data)

Household structure: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about the number of married or coupled families, single-parent families, and children living under the poverty line (American Community Survey)

Median family income: Median family income among those in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Housing stability: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about vacancy rates, rental vs. home ownership, and mobility/housing turnover (American Community Survey)

Education level: A measure based on typical educational attainment of adults in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Crime: The predicted probability of being a victim of a crime in the neighborhood or neighborhoods represented by the students attending the high school. Data provided by Location, Inc. For more information, please visit http://www.locationinc.com/data.

These 6 indicators are averaged and presented on a 1-100 percentile scale to provide a Neighborhood Average and a High School Average. A higher value on the 1-100 scale indicates a higher level of challenge related to educational opportunities and outcomes.

One of the interesting aspects of this is that high school indicators are (reasonably) determined by the census tracts of the college bound students. As they explain in a footnote:


4. A high school’s college-bound seniors include those who participate in a College Board assessment.

Anyway, point being this is way more sophisticated than a list of high schools in rich zipcodes. But, say, a high school might be categorized as having a Suburban:Large location, and then get relatively low scores on the six "challenge" indicators meaning the college-bound seniors come from census tracts with high college attendance, many two-parent families, high family incomes, lots of owned homes with low vacancies, lots of high-education adults, and low crime.

And of course colleges do not have to use Landscape, or they can supplement it in various ways, as they see fit. But it is helpful to know this exists."

____

"Not a list that crude, but my understanding is products like Landscape (see other post) are regularly used by College Board members in the application process, or some equivalent. This is often implicitly part of what they are referring to when they talk about evaluating applicants in context, resources by type of area (high or low), advantages/disadvantages by type of area, and so on.

Products like Landscape, if the college so chooses, will tag each application with a handy set of residential and high school indicators that the colleges can then look at when evaluating each application. In many cases, many of the competitive applicants are likely to blur together, because of course many of them come from the same sorts of areas and high schools. But if a college is interested in taking context into account in certain cases, or wants to target certain kinds of diversity (still allowed), or so on, it has this sort of product available."

Landscape is used by most colleges. But, no one really knows the extent to which AOs see this aspect. Generally, I don't think they do. Landscape data is not directly showing up in the AO's Slate application review portal. There may be a score somewhere, but it would probably be from the outside enrollment management consultant that uses Landscape data among other factors in the school's yield algorithm. Different schools would be have different algorithms.

What does show up in Slate is website clicks over time. In Slate, AOs can literally hover over a data point on a timeline graph and see what page the applicant clicked on, on a specific date.

I am friends with an AO at a T10 and the VP of Enrollment Management at my R1 public. Both have told me that Landscape and other software (algorithm) are used to shape the class (gender balance, majors, financial aid, merit, etc.) post AO application reviews. The report goes back to the Dean of admissions who instructs AO to make cuts or additions were needed. At my institution and my friend at the T10, the AOs can see the 1-100 percentile scale score described above on Slate within the context of SAT/ACT scores or TO and curriculum rigor.

DP. Thanks. It sounds like the bolded is where algorithms really comes into play. My guess is that Landscape may be more useful for the value it adds in the financial area than for score context. The AOs may really be privy to the entirety of reasoning behind the additions and cuts that the Dean of Admissions makes based on the algorithm results for class shaping.

TYPO, should say: The AOs may NOT be privy...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of information out there about Landscape, and its role in AO review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/18l9emm/is_there_really_a_list_of_the_high_schools_of/


"But US colleges can, and some do, use data about high school locations as part of their contextual evaluation. There is actually a College Board product called Landscape which, among other things, is offered for this purpose. You can read a bit about it here:

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/landscape/comprehensive-data-methodology-overview.pdf

There are two relevant parts of Landscape with respect to your question. As part of the general high school information section, Landscape will categorize high school locations geographically:


Locale: This measure is based on the high school’s location, and relies on the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) system of classifying geographic areas into 4 categories: City, Suburban, Town, and Rural (NCES locale framework).

– City and Suburban types are further divided into Large, Midsize, and Small, based on the population of the city or suburb (e.g., City: Midsize).

– Town and Rural types are further divided into Fringe, Distant, and Remote, based on the proximity of the town or rural area to an urban area (e.g., Rural: Remote).

Landscape also provides various "indicators" for an applicant's residential neighborhood and high school, which are census-tract based:


Neighborhood and high school indicators are provided: (i) at the neighborhood level, which is defined by a student’s census tract, and (ii) at the high school level, which is defined by the census tracts of college-bound seniors at a high school. Applicants from the same census tract share the same neighborhood data and indicators; applicants from the same high school share the same high school data and indicators.

The indicators are:

College attendance: A measure based on the predicted probability that a student from the neighborhood/high school enrolls in a 4-year college (aggregate College Board and National Student Clearinghouse data)

Household structure: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about the number of married or coupled families, single-parent families, and children living under the poverty line (American Community Survey)

Median family income: Median family income among those in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Housing stability: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about vacancy rates, rental vs. home ownership, and mobility/housing turnover (American Community Survey)

Education level: A measure based on typical educational attainment of adults in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Crime: The predicted probability of being a victim of a crime in the neighborhood or neighborhoods represented by the students attending the high school. Data provided by Location, Inc. For more information, please visit http://www.locationinc.com/data.

These 6 indicators are averaged and presented on a 1-100 percentile scale to provide a Neighborhood Average and a High School Average. A higher value on the 1-100 scale indicates a higher level of challenge related to educational opportunities and outcomes.

One of the interesting aspects of this is that high school indicators are (reasonably) determined by the census tracts of the college bound students. As they explain in a footnote:


4. A high school’s college-bound seniors include those who participate in a College Board assessment.

Anyway, point being this is way more sophisticated than a list of high schools in rich zipcodes. But, say, a high school might be categorized as having a Suburban:Large location, and then get relatively low scores on the six "challenge" indicators meaning the college-bound seniors come from census tracts with high college attendance, many two-parent families, high family incomes, lots of owned homes with low vacancies, lots of high-education adults, and low crime.

And of course colleges do not have to use Landscape, or they can supplement it in various ways, as they see fit. But it is helpful to know this exists."

____

"Not a list that crude, but my understanding is products like Landscape (see other post) are regularly used by College Board members in the application process, or some equivalent. This is often implicitly part of what they are referring to when they talk about evaluating applicants in context, resources by type of area (high or low), advantages/disadvantages by type of area, and so on.

Products like Landscape, if the college so chooses, will tag each application with a handy set of residential and high school indicators that the colleges can then look at when evaluating each application. In many cases, many of the competitive applicants are likely to blur together, because of course many of them come from the same sorts of areas and high schools. But if a college is interested in taking context into account in certain cases, or wants to target certain kinds of diversity (still allowed), or so on, it has this sort of product available."

Landscape is used by most colleges. But, no one really knows the extent to which AOs see this aspect. Generally, I don't think they do. Landscape data is not directly showing up in the AO's Slate application review portal. There may be a score somewhere, but it would probably be from the outside enrollment management consultant that uses Landscape data among other factors in the school's yield algorithm. Different schools would be have different algorithms.

What does show up in Slate is website clicks over time. In Slate, AOs can literally hover over a data point on a timeline graph and see what page the applicant clicked on, on a specific date.

does the score = likelihood of attending? or likeliness of need aid?

Im not following what the "score" is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of information out there about Landscape, and its role in AO review:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/18l9emm/is_there_really_a_list_of_the_high_schools_of/


"But US colleges can, and some do, use data about high school locations as part of their contextual evaluation. There is actually a College Board product called Landscape which, among other things, is offered for this purpose. You can read a bit about it here:

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/landscape/comprehensive-data-methodology-overview.pdf

There are two relevant parts of Landscape with respect to your question. As part of the general high school information section, Landscape will categorize high school locations geographically:


Locale: This measure is based on the high school’s location, and relies on the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) system of classifying geographic areas into 4 categories: City, Suburban, Town, and Rural (NCES locale framework).

– City and Suburban types are further divided into Large, Midsize, and Small, based on the population of the city or suburb (e.g., City: Midsize).

– Town and Rural types are further divided into Fringe, Distant, and Remote, based on the proximity of the town or rural area to an urban area (e.g., Rural: Remote).

Landscape also provides various "indicators" for an applicant's residential neighborhood and high school, which are census-tract based:


Neighborhood and high school indicators are provided: (i) at the neighborhood level, which is defined by a student’s census tract, and (ii) at the high school level, which is defined by the census tracts of college-bound seniors at a high school. Applicants from the same census tract share the same neighborhood data and indicators; applicants from the same high school share the same high school data and indicators.

The indicators are:

College attendance: A measure based on the predicted probability that a student from the neighborhood/high school enrolls in a 4-year college (aggregate College Board and National Student Clearinghouse data)

Household structure: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about the number of married or coupled families, single-parent families, and children living under the poverty line (American Community Survey)

Median family income: Median family income among those in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Housing stability: A measure based on neighborhood/high school information about vacancy rates, rental vs. home ownership, and mobility/housing turnover (American Community Survey)

Education level: A measure based on typical educational attainment of adults in the neighborhood/high school (American Community Survey)

Crime: The predicted probability of being a victim of a crime in the neighborhood or neighborhoods represented by the students attending the high school. Data provided by Location, Inc. For more information, please visit http://www.locationinc.com/data.

These 6 indicators are averaged and presented on a 1-100 percentile scale to provide a Neighborhood Average and a High School Average. A higher value on the 1-100 scale indicates a higher level of challenge related to educational opportunities and outcomes.

One of the interesting aspects of this is that high school indicators are (reasonably) determined by the census tracts of the college bound students. As they explain in a footnote:


4. A high school’s college-bound seniors include those who participate in a College Board assessment.

Anyway, point being this is way more sophisticated than a list of high schools in rich zipcodes. But, say, a high school might be categorized as having a Suburban:Large location, and then get relatively low scores on the six "challenge" indicators meaning the college-bound seniors come from census tracts with high college attendance, many two-parent families, high family incomes, lots of owned homes with low vacancies, lots of high-education adults, and low crime.

And of course colleges do not have to use Landscape, or they can supplement it in various ways, as they see fit. But it is helpful to know this exists."

____

"Not a list that crude, but my understanding is products like Landscape (see other post) are regularly used by College Board members in the application process, or some equivalent. This is often implicitly part of what they are referring to when they talk about evaluating applicants in context, resources by type of area (high or low), advantages/disadvantages by type of area, and so on.

Products like Landscape, if the college so chooses, will tag each application with a handy set of residential and high school indicators that the colleges can then look at when evaluating each application. In many cases, many of the competitive applicants are likely to blur together, because of course many of them come from the same sorts of areas and high schools. But if a college is interested in taking context into account in certain cases, or wants to target certain kinds of diversity (still allowed), or so on, it has this sort of product available."

Landscape is used by most colleges. But, no one really knows the extent to which AOs see this aspect. Generally, I don't think they do. Landscape data is not directly showing up in the AO's Slate application review portal. There may be a score somewhere, but it would probably be from the outside enrollment management consultant that uses Landscape data among other factors in the school's yield algorithm. Different schools would be have different algorithms.

What does show up in Slate is website clicks over time. In Slate, AOs can literally hover over a data point on a timeline graph and see what page the applicant clicked on, on a specific date.

does the score = likelihood of attending? or likeliness of need aid?

Im not following what the "score" is.

Could include both. Likelihood of attending may include as a factor likelihood of being able to afford the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thikn top schools will want to remain need blind, but it will matter a lot during waitlist process IMO.

but you really have to skip that FA box.

Newbie question - Do you need to complete the FA paperwork if you’re clearly full pay but want your kid to be considered for merit at their safeties?

Never inputted SSN in the common app or completed ANY FA paperwork.
DD received numerous merit awards from Pitt, Vermont, CU-Boulder and Case this year.

Perfect. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

For well-resourced universities, which are the selective ones everyone is dying to attend, I don’t think anything will change.

The only thing that may trigger a change is if Endowments are taxed and this has not happened.