Why are youth and high school sports so competitive to get into now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid started h.s. with no experience in sports. She began running track, then picked up field hockey and lacrosse. The key to all three seems to be the ability to run. I don't think her stick skills are the best (field hockey) but she can run so she made varsity.

I never played field hockey but girls lacrosse is easy to learn. If you’re a fast runner you’re all set.

Out of the three which did she like the best?

Field hockey

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe this is even a NOVA issue since it is happening all over America, whether it is California, Texas, Massachusetts, and so on. You have to put your kid in competitive sports at a young age to even have a chance of playing at the high school level. There aren't many rec options once you get to the middle school level, and every school team by then has competitive tryouts. There is no way to pick up a new sport by late elementary or middle school. Kids have to determine their interests at their young age or else it is too late. I don't want to encourage my kids to get into sports because I know it is going to suck for them in the end.

It is especially frustrating when there is basically nothing you get in return for investing so much into youth sports. Most kids will never play in the NCAA, and varsity sports don't matter much for college admissions. I don't know how it is reasonable for any family to invest so much time and money and risking their health for basically nothing.

This is a very disappointing attitude for a parent to have. I guess you’re proving the point that not everyone should become a parent. On the off chance that you are actually interested in learning something I will address the issues that you raise.

Sports in and of themselves are a great value to your child. First, making sure your child is in excellent shape will help them in every aspect of their lives from climbing the stairs to their first apartment to attracting a spouse. Second, sports allow your child additional opportunities to make friends and socialize. Third, a coach can be an important additional adult in their lives. Your teenager might not want to listen to you about the importance of not skipping school but they will almost certainly listen to the coach when he says that they can’t play in the game if they have an unexcused absence that week. Additionally, participation in higher level sports provide an opportunity to teach your child more sophisticated social skills such as how to be a good teammate when you are competing with them for the same position or how to work with incompetent leadership.

Finally, in my experience sports provide an invaluable opportunity to bond with and learn about your kid. I have spent many nights with all of my kids individually in hotel rooms during tournaments and we have had the most wonderful conversations. I’ve also gotten to know thier friends and teammates in a way I never would have if wasn’t driving them to practice or sitting with them on the sidelines between game. This has allowed me to have a deeper understanding of the world my children inhabit. If you don’t see the value in that I feel sorry for you and your children.

As to why sports seem much more competitive than ever before I think it’s mostly a function of the changing nature of childhood. When I was a kid home was not that fun - we had only a couple of channels of tv and if you wanted to see a movie your dad had to take you or at least he’d have to go to the video rental store. In the absence of electronic entertainment kids had to make their own fun usually consisting of cruising around the neighborhood on bikes and playing games we made up. Unfortunately for all of us - screens have changed that now every child has access to unlimited entertainment and pernicious social media. Even if you restrict your child from accessing the internet your neighbors probably don’t. Sports give your child a place that is not dominated by Netflix or instagram.

I hope this has helped you and your children. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Four years ago, my ES kids, a fifth grader, asked me how to get girls to like him, and I responded: be the best version of yourself. In other words, excel in sports, and music. If you can do both, girls will line up and you will have options. To be great at this, you have to work very hard, because if it were that easy, it would have no value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Four years ago, my ES kids, a fifth grader, asked me how to get girls to like him, and I responded: be the best version of yourself. In other words, excel in sports, and music. If you can do both, girls will line up and you will have options. To be great at this, you have to work very hard, because if it were that easy, it would have no value.

This is a really strange post. Girls may line up for the star football player but they aren’t swooning over the XCountry star…in general.

Much the same that girls like the guitar players in a rock band but aren’t exactly throwing themselves at an oboe player.

Which isn’t to say either group has an issue with other XCountry girls and other girls that play in the orchestra.

Nor do charismatic class presidents and theatre kids or class clowns necessarily have issues with the opposite sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.

So volleyball isn't a rich kid sport because two other sports are more elitist? That's like claiming golf isn't a rich kid sport because Dressage exists and your 45k/yr is a joke in comparison. Volleyball is the only sport we said no to for our DD. Playing club was almost 10x a year more than what we were paying for basketball

According to an article in ESPN

“You go where you see success and where you have access to success," he said. "Basketball is a hard sport to master. Unless you're willing to put in the time and effort and have a certain level of athleticism and hand-eye skills, you will not be successful. You will be pushed out of the sport because of what it demands. In volleyball and lacrosse, those barriers are lower."”

The same article interviewed two female volleyball players who played in college.

Hayley McCorkle, who finished her career on North Carolina's volleyball team last fall said …

@“I wanted to compete against someone, but I didn't want that physical contact," she said. "Volleyball allows you to be a little more of a girl. You get to wear the ribbons, wear pink, wear your hair however you want and still be dainty when you play the sport. That draws a lot of young athletes to the sport."”

Washington's Kara Bajema was one of many volleyball players who echoed that sentiment. She has played basketball but chose volleyball. … she said ….

"Honestly, I just like the volleyball environment better. It's a little more chill," she said. "Basketball is definitely more hard-core, and I like being a girly girl sometimes."

If people don’t believe that girls are drawn to this because they get to be cute they are delusional. Females like these ones, and there are a lot of them, might just set back female sports a few decades.

This matches what I have seen in our community. A lot of girls start out playing basketball in elementary school. The more girly ones move over to volleyball by middle school. Both teams and tall and athletic, but there’s a noticeable difference in how they carry themselves.

In other words the basketball players are athletes and volleyball players are the ones who weren’t good enough or committed enough to play a real sport.

No, stupid. Basketball players tend to be more the tomboy type, with the baggy shorts and not into hair and makeup. They are generally more masculine. A lot of high school girls don’t want to act or be thought of that way. Sorry you have some issues that you haven’t resolved from HS.

Then they don’t get to call themselves athletes. But you’re wrong about serious players. And take another look at USA volleyball team. They are big girls crammed into unflattering bike style shorts. Pony tails and no makeup. The serious ones.

It’s too bad some teens still think like it’s 1950 and claim girls don’t want to play a sport that makes them too boyish. Luckily there are plenty of female athletes that give the sport everything they got, even if they have wear baggy clothes or even more protective gear like female lacrosse and ice hockey players. They aren’t pretend athletes.

You do realize that women’s ice hockey is a completely different animal than men’s ice hockey, don’t you? And that the ladies wear full face masks and checking is only incidental contact (so no one is laying anyone out with violent, aggressive collisions)?

Are you saying that women’s ice hockey and lacrosse players are less athletic because of the rule and equipment modifications? Have you attempted to play either? I think not because if you had you’d understand that not just anyone could play and that there’s a high level of skill and athleticism involved with both. Ice hockey specifically has an incredibly steep learning curve and while there’s no checking allowed there is a ton of contact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe this is even a NOVA issue since it is happening all over America, whether it is California, Texas, Massachusetts, and so on. You have to put your kid in competitive sports at a young age to even have a chance of playing at the high school level. There aren't many rec options once you get to the middle school level, and every school team by then has competitive tryouts. There is no way to pick up a new sport by late elementary or middle school. Kids have to determine their interests at their young age or else it is too late. I don't want to encourage my kids to get into sports because I know it is going to suck for them in the end.

It is especially frustrating when there is basically nothing you get in return for investing so much into youth sports. Most kids will never play in the NCAA, and varsity sports don't matter much for college admissions. I don't know how it is reasonable for any family to invest so much time and money and risking their health for basically nothing.

This is a very disappointing attitude for a parent to have. I guess you’re proving the point that not everyone should become a parent. On the off chance that you are actually interested in learning something I will address the issues that you raise.

Sports in and of themselves are a great value to your child. First, making sure your child is in excellent shape will help them in every aspect of their lives from climbing the stairs to their first apartment to attracting a spouse. Second, sports allow your child additional opportunities to make friends and socialize. Third, a coach can be an important additional adult in their lives. Your teenager might not want to listen to you about the importance of not skipping school but they will almost certainly listen to the coach when he says that they can’t play in the game if they have an unexcused absence that week. Additionally, participation in higher level sports provide an opportunity to teach your child more sophisticated social skills such as how to be a good teammate when you are competing with them for the same position or how to work with incompetent leadership.

Finally, in my experience sports provide an invaluable opportunity to bond with and learn about your kid. I have spent many nights with all of my kids individually in hotel rooms during tournaments and we have had the most wonderful conversations. I’ve also gotten to know thier friends and teammates in a way I never would have if wasn’t driving them to practice or sitting with them on the sidelines between game. This has allowed me to have a deeper understanding of the world my children inhabit. If you don’t see the value in that I feel sorry for you and your children.

As to why sports seem much more competitive than ever before I think it’s mostly a function of the changing nature of childhood. When I was a kid home was not that fun - we had only a couple of channels of tv and if you wanted to see a movie your dad had to take you or at least he’d have to go to the video rental store. In the absence of electronic entertainment kids had to make their own fun usually consisting of cruising around the neighborhood on bikes and playing games we made up. Unfortunately for all of us - screens have changed that now every child has access to unlimited entertainment and pernicious social media. Even if you restrict your child from accessing the internet your neighbors probably don’t. Sports give your child a place that is not dominated by Netflix or instagram.

I hope this has helped you and your children. Good luck.

This is such a great responses, and these are the reasons that I spend so much time and energy supporting and encouraging my kids to play sports. I do think other activities can offer the same social benefits, if you have a kid who is really just not athletic, but these days there seems to be a sport for almost anyone (in MCPS, newly pickleball). And there are sports like cross country that often don’t have cuts, or club sports like crew that are open to anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.

So volleyball isn't a rich kid sport because two other sports are more elitist? That's like claiming golf isn't a rich kid sport because Dressage exists and your 45k/yr is a joke in comparison. Volleyball is the only sport we said no to for our DD. Playing club was almost 10x a year more than what we were paying for basketball

According to an article in ESPN

“You go where you see success and where you have access to success," he said. "Basketball is a hard sport to master. Unless you're willing to put in the time and effort and have a certain level of athleticism and hand-eye skills, you will not be successful. You will be pushed out of the sport because of what it demands. In volleyball and lacrosse, those barriers are lower."”

The same article interviewed two female volleyball players who played in college.

Hayley McCorkle, who finished her career on North Carolina's volleyball team last fall said …

@“I wanted to compete against someone, but I didn't want that physical contact," she said. "Volleyball allows you to be a little more of a girl. You get to wear the ribbons, wear pink, wear your hair however you want and still be dainty when you play the sport. That draws a lot of young athletes to the sport."”

Washington's Kara Bajema was one of many volleyball players who echoed that sentiment. She has played basketball but chose volleyball. … she said ….

"Honestly, I just like the volleyball environment better. It's a little more chill," she said. "Basketball is definitely more hard-core, and I like being a girly girl sometimes."

If people don’t believe that girls are drawn to this because they get to be cute they are delusional. Females like these ones, and there are a lot of them, might just set back female sports a few decades.

Volleyball can be as demanding as any other sport but it doesn't draw the same athletes as basketball does in this country, so you have to be really competitive to survive in basketball while a more moderate level of intensity can be enough for success in volleyball.

So in your pretend world everyone tries to play basketball and then goes to other sports when they can’t make it. Got it.

I didn't say that it gets the basketball rejects. It doesn't have the same draw. So many more kids try out for basketball than volleyball that it's just harder to be in the top x% of basketball players than it is to be in the same x% of volleyball players. I could say the same thing about soccer and field hockey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.

So volleyball isn't a rich kid sport because two other sports are more elitist? That's like claiming golf isn't a rich kid sport because Dressage exists and your 45k/yr is a joke in comparison. Volleyball is the only sport we said no to for our DD. Playing club was almost 10x a year more than what we were paying for basketball

According to an article in ESPN

“You go where you see success and where you have access to success," he said. "Basketball is a hard sport to master. Unless you're willing to put in the time and effort and have a certain level of athleticism and hand-eye skills, you will not be successful. You will be pushed out of the sport because of what it demands. In volleyball and lacrosse, those barriers are lower."”

The same article interviewed two female volleyball players who played in college.

Hayley McCorkle, who finished her career on North Carolina's volleyball team last fall said …

@“I wanted to compete against someone, but I didn't want that physical contact," she said. "Volleyball allows you to be a little more of a girl. You get to wear the ribbons, wear pink, wear your hair however you want and still be dainty when you play the sport. That draws a lot of young athletes to the sport."”

Washington's Kara Bajema was one of many volleyball players who echoed that sentiment. She has played basketball but chose volleyball. … she said ….

"Honestly, I just like the volleyball environment better. It's a little more chill," she said. "Basketball is definitely more hard-core, and I like being a girly girl sometimes."

If people don’t believe that girls are drawn to this because they get to be cute they are delusional. Females like these ones, and there are a lot of them, might just set back female sports a few decades.

You’re saying there’s something wrong with wanting a less competitive environment or wanting to look cute? I don’t see why women have to act like men to be considered real athletes.

Act like men? You mean put everything you’ve got into the game without worrying about mascara running? Being as competitive as you possibly be without the distraction that your silly hair bow won’t come off. You’ve obviously never played a varsity sport.

This attitude is why no one will ever care who won a volleyball game. It’s not a sport. The cute ones are in cheerleading if that’s a priority.

Just watch this video to see how volleyball players are only concerned about looking cute, worried about their silly hair bows and mascara running:
https://www.tiktok.com/@houseofhighlights/video/7284365418528132395?lang=en

That is not how things would have played out if a boy bounced a volleyball off another player's face.
There wouldn't be nearly as many looks of concern.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little flexing.

I am not sure what you are trying to say? Boys are stronger / more macho? They show less concern when a fellow athlete gets hurt? Girls are weaker, wear mascara, and put their hair in silly bows?

Boys can be less empathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.

So volleyball isn't a rich kid sport because two other sports are more elitist? That's like claiming golf isn't a rich kid sport because Dressage exists and your 45k/yr is a joke in comparison. Volleyball is the only sport we said no to for our DD. Playing club was almost 10x a year more than what we were paying for basketball

According to an article in ESPN

“You go where you see success and where you have access to success," he said. "Basketball is a hard sport to master. Unless you're willing to put in the time and effort and have a certain level of athleticism and hand-eye skills, you will not be successful. You will be pushed out of the sport because of what it demands. In volleyball and lacrosse, those barriers are lower."”

The same article interviewed two female volleyball players who played in college.

Hayley McCorkle, who finished her career on North Carolina's volleyball team last fall said …

@“I wanted to compete against someone, but I didn't want that physical contact," she said. "Volleyball allows you to be a little more of a girl. You get to wear the ribbons, wear pink, wear your hair however you want and still be dainty when you play the sport. That draws a lot of young athletes to the sport."”

Washington's Kara Bajema was one of many volleyball players who echoed that sentiment. She has played basketball but chose volleyball. … she said ….

"Honestly, I just like the volleyball environment better. It's a little more chill," she said. "Basketball is definitely more hard-core, and I like being a girly girl sometimes."

If people don’t believe that girls are drawn to this because they get to be cute they are delusional. Females like these ones, and there are a lot of them, might just set back female sports a few decades.

You’re saying there’s something wrong with wanting a less competitive environment or wanting to look cute? I don’t see why women have to act like men to be considered real athletes.

Act like men? You mean put everything you’ve got into the game without worrying about mascara running? Being as competitive as you possibly be without the distraction that your silly hair bow won’t come off. You’ve obviously never played a varsity sport.

This attitude is why no one will ever care who won a volleyball game. It’s not a sport. The cute ones are in cheerleading if that’s a priority.

Just watch this video to see how volleyball players are only concerned about looking cute, worried about their silly hair bows and mascara running:
https://www.tiktok.com/@houseofhighlights/video/7284365418528132395?lang=en

That is not how things would have played out if a boy bounced a volleyball off another player's face.
There wouldn't be nearly as many looks of concern.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little flexing.

I am not sure what you are trying to say? Boys are stronger / more macho? They show less concern when a fellow athlete gets hurt? Girls are weaker, wear mascara, and put their hair in silly bows?

But yes, boys are stronger and mroe macho, less empathetic. Girls are weaker (definitely can't jump as high) and wear bows in their hair more frequently than boys do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.

So volleyball isn't a rich kid sport because two other sports are more elitist? That's like claiming golf isn't a rich kid sport because Dressage exists and your 45k/yr is a joke in comparison. Volleyball is the only sport we said no to for our DD. Playing club was almost 10x a year more than what we were paying for basketball

According to an article in ESPN

“You go where you see success and where you have access to success," he said. "Basketball is a hard sport to master. Unless you're willing to put in the time and effort and have a certain level of athleticism and hand-eye skills, you will not be successful. You will be pushed out of the sport because of what it demands. In volleyball and lacrosse, those barriers are lower."”

The same article interviewed two female volleyball players who played in college.

Hayley McCorkle, who finished her career on North Carolina's volleyball team last fall said …

@“I wanted to compete against someone, but I didn't want that physical contact," she said. "Volleyball allows you to be a little more of a girl. You get to wear the ribbons, wear pink, wear your hair however you want and still be dainty when you play the sport. That draws a lot of young athletes to the sport."”

Washington's Kara Bajema was one of many volleyball players who echoed that sentiment. She has played basketball but chose volleyball. … she said ….

"Honestly, I just like the volleyball environment better. It's a little more chill," she said. "Basketball is definitely more hard-core, and I like being a girly girl sometimes."

If people don’t believe that girls are drawn to this because they get to be cute they are delusional. Females like these ones, and there are a lot of them, might just set back female sports a few decades.

Volleyball can be as demanding as any other sport but it doesn't draw the same athletes as basketball does in this country, so you have to be really competitive to survive in basketball while a more moderate level of intensity can be enough for success in volleyball.

So in your pretend world everyone tries to play basketball and then goes to other sports when they can’t make it. Got it.

I am not sure the PP says that athletes try to start with basketball, they can't make it, then shift to volleyball. But still hints to the idea that volleyball is less of a sport. After the previous misogynist comments were called for what they were, this is an attempt to make the point using "reasonable" arguments. Equally stupid, but "reasonable."

I'm not saying it's less of a sport, it just doesn't have the same draw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four years ago, my ES kids, a fifth grader, asked me how to get girls to like him, and I responded: be the best version of yourself. In other words, excel in sports, and music. If you can do both, girls will line up and you will have options. To be great at this, you have to work very hard, because if it were that easy, it would have no value.

This is a really strange post. Girls may line up for the star football player but they aren’t swooning over the XCountry star…in general.

Much the same that girls like the guitar players in a rock band but aren’t exactly throwing themselves at an oboe player.

Which isn’t to say either group has an issue with other XCountry girls and other girls that play in the orchestra.

Nor do charismatic class presidents and theatre kids or class clowns necessarily have issues with the opposite sex.

XCountry and oboe are for losers. Girls like guitar players and basketball/soccer players. It good to have both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.

So volleyball isn't a rich kid sport because two other sports are more elitist? That's like claiming golf isn't a rich kid sport because Dressage exists and your 45k/yr is a joke in comparison. Volleyball is the only sport we said no to for our DD. Playing club was almost 10x a year more than what we were paying for basketball

According to an article in ESPN

“You go where you see success and where you have access to success," he said. "Basketball is a hard sport to master. Unless you're willing to put in the time and effort and have a certain level of athleticism and hand-eye skills, you will not be successful. You will be pushed out of the sport because of what it demands. In volleyball and lacrosse, those barriers are lower."”

The same article interviewed two female volleyball players who played in college.

Hayley McCorkle, who finished her career on North Carolina's volleyball team last fall said …

@“I wanted to compete against someone, but I didn't want that physical contact," she said. "Volleyball allows you to be a little more of a girl. You get to wear the ribbons, wear pink, wear your hair however you want and still be dainty when you play the sport. That draws a lot of young athletes to the sport."”

Washington's Kara Bajema was one of many volleyball players who echoed that sentiment. She has played basketball but chose volleyball. … she said ….

"Honestly, I just like the volleyball environment better. It's a little more chill," she said. "Basketball is definitely more hard-core, and I like being a girly girl sometimes."

If people don’t believe that girls are drawn to this because they get to be cute they are delusional. Females like these ones, and there are a lot of them, might just set back female sports a few decades.

You’re saying there’s something wrong with wanting a less competitive environment or wanting to look cute? I don’t see why women have to act like men to be considered real athletes.

Act like men? You mean put everything you’ve got into the game without worrying about mascara running? Being as competitive as you possibly be without the distraction that your silly hair bow won’t come off. You’ve obviously never played a varsity sport.

This attitude is why no one will ever care who won a volleyball game. It’s not a sport. The cute ones are in cheerleading if that’s a priority.

Is there any better example of cluelessness and toxic masculinity all in one post?

I think you might be responding to a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four years ago, my ES kids, a fifth grader, asked me how to get girls to like him, and I responded: be the best version of yourself. In other words, excel in sports, and music. If you can do both, girls will line up and you will have options. To be great at this, you have to work very hard, because if it were that easy, it would have no value.

This is a really strange post. Girls may line up for the star football player but they aren’t swooning over the XCountry star…in general.

Much the same that girls like the guitar players in a rock band but aren’t exactly throwing themselves at an oboe player.

Which isn’t to say either group has an issue with other XCountry girls and other girls that play in the orchestra.

Nor do charismatic class presidents and theatre kids or class clowns necessarily have issues with the opposite sex.

Class President? Theater kids? Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.

So volleyball isn't a rich kid sport because two other sports are more elitist? That's like claiming golf isn't a rich kid sport because Dressage exists and your 45k/yr is a joke in comparison. Volleyball is the only sport we said no to for our DD. Playing club was almost 10x a year more than what we were paying for basketball

According to an article in ESPN

“You go where you see success and where you have access to success," he said. "Basketball is a hard sport to master. Unless you're willing to put in the time and effort and have a certain level of athleticism and hand-eye skills, you will not be successful. You will be pushed out of the sport because of what it demands. In volleyball and lacrosse, those barriers are lower."”

The same article interviewed two female volleyball players who played in college.

Hayley McCorkle, who finished her career on North Carolina's volleyball team last fall said …

@“I wanted to compete against someone, but I didn't want that physical contact," she said. "Volleyball allows you to be a little more of a girl. You get to wear the ribbons, wear pink, wear your hair however you want and still be dainty when you play the sport. That draws a lot of young athletes to the sport."”

Washington's Kara Bajema was one of many volleyball players who echoed that sentiment. She has played basketball but chose volleyball. … she said ….

"Honestly, I just like the volleyball environment better. It's a little more chill," she said. "Basketball is definitely more hard-core, and I like being a girly girl sometimes."

If people don’t believe that girls are drawn to this because they get to be cute they are delusional. Females like these ones, and there are a lot of them, might just set back female sports a few decades.

Volleyball can be as demanding as any other sport but it doesn't draw the same athletes as basketball does in this country, so you have to be really competitive to survive in basketball while a more moderate level of intensity can be enough for success in volleyball.

So in your pretend world everyone tries to play basketball and then goes to other sports when they can’t make it. Got it.

I am not sure the PP says that athletes try to start with basketball, they can't make it, then shift to volleyball. But still hints to the idea that volleyball is less of a sport. After the previous misogynist comments were called for what they were, this is an attempt to make the point using "reasonable" arguments. Equally stupid, but "reasonable."

I'm not saying it's less of a sport, it just doesn't have the same draw.

Now you are trying to rewrite history and it doesn't work. Just read a few posts up, where you came with your macho attitude and claimed that volleyball is not a sport. After you've been called out, you are pretending that all you said was that it doesn't have the same draw. Just go away, this is getting embarrassing for you after everyone understood exactly what you were saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.

So volleyball isn't a rich kid sport because two other sports are more elitist? That's like claiming golf isn't a rich kid sport because Dressage exists and your 45k/yr is a joke in comparison. Volleyball is the only sport we said no to for our DD. Playing club was almost 10x a year more than what we were paying for basketball

According to an article in ESPN

“You go where you see success and where you have access to success," he said. "Basketball is a hard sport to master. Unless you're willing to put in the time and effort and have a certain level of athleticism and hand-eye skills, you will not be successful. You will be pushed out of the sport because of what it demands. In volleyball and lacrosse, those barriers are lower."”

The same article interviewed two female volleyball players who played in college.

Hayley McCorkle, who finished her career on North Carolina's volleyball team last fall said …

@“I wanted to compete against someone, but I didn't want that physical contact," she said. "Volleyball allows you to be a little more of a girl. You get to wear the ribbons, wear pink, wear your hair however you want and still be dainty when you play the sport. That draws a lot of young athletes to the sport."”

Washington's Kara Bajema was one of many volleyball players who echoed that sentiment. She has played basketball but chose volleyball. … she said ….

"Honestly, I just like the volleyball environment better. It's a little more chill," she said. "Basketball is definitely more hard-core, and I like being a girly girl sometimes."

If people don’t believe that girls are drawn to this because they get to be cute they are delusional. Females like these ones, and there are a lot of them, might just set back female sports a few decades.

You’re saying there’s something wrong with wanting a less competitive environment or wanting to look cute? I don’t see why women have to act like men to be considered real athletes.

Act like men? You mean put everything you’ve got into the game without worrying about mascara running? Being as competitive as you possibly be without the distraction that your silly hair bow won’t come off. You’ve obviously never played a varsity sport.

This attitude is why no one will ever care who won a volleyball game. It’s not a sport. The cute ones are in cheerleading if that’s a priority.

Is there any better example of cluelessness and toxic masculinity all in one post?

I think you might be responding to a woman.

I would be surprised, but - if it's true - I would not mess with her. The poster - whether a woman or not - must have pretty serious issues. Probably all the concussion they've been through is catching up.