Why are kids with extreme behavior issues being mainstreamed?

[Anonymous]

How do you know all of this information, OP?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As the parent of such a kid who doesn't minimize violence - the criminality is beside the point. There are no places for these kids to go. It's prison or mainstream. There's private placement if you're very savvy. Most people can't.

I think it's partly optics and partly cost and partly lack of will.

You can’t terrorize the normies. It has to be controlled.

These problems start young an the system tries to gaslight the parents and minimize them. For example, at one point my son didn't get an aide because that would be too restrictive. He was 5 at the time. (He has one now. But first we had to document evidence that he couldn't manage without one.)

It's not reasonable to expect parents to write off a 5 year old because the system doesn't work. The kids get pushed through the system.

That's because it's not legal to start with the most restrictive environment based on the parent's say so. Documenting evidence of the need is part of the process. That's how he ended up with an aide/para.

OK. So how do you suggest I, a parent, should have handled his behavior pre-para?

Hire one yourself. The issue is you want everything free.

I'm not the parent you are responding to but your suggestion is ridiculous. Public schools don't allow parents to hire people to attend school with their children. There is a process by which children are identified as needing services and the school does it's best to provide them. It doesn't often happen on the parent's timetable or the even the teacher's or the parents of the other kids, however it's a process that must be followed. Ideally the school will do their best to manage the child's behavior while they are in the process. Anyone expecting all this to go perfectly is delusional. If you think you can fix this imperfect system go right ahead and run for the school board. In the meantime I believe that everyone involved is doing their best despite what you may think. And BTW the parents of children with special needs typically want the same free public education you want for your children who were lucky enough to not be afflicted with special needs.

+1
Yes it's not allowed in MCPS or in most districts. Otherwise everyone would be hiring a private aide to help little Johnny ace his classes.
I know several parents who offered to pay for aides while they were waiting for their district to move their butts on a change of placement but they were not allowed due to district policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you know all of this information, OP?

+1
It rings partly true but there also seems to be a bit of exaggeration by OP and taking gossip and presenting it as fact. There is no way she knows all this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked in a school once that had mostly kids from a very violent neighborhood. These kids lived with violence on a daily basis in their homes and community. They weren't classed as SEN as the school was in their neighborhood and most of the students came from similar backgrounds.

It was very eye opening to me. These kids used violence and threatened violence just in how they expressed themselves and in how they dealt with any frustration. Having never really been in that kind of neighborhood until I taught at that school, I had never been exposed to this. They were all pretty traumatized and used threats of violence or acts of aggression to keep themselves safe. In one grade 3 class a little girl did stab another student with scissors for some minor thing he did. They were also always threatening to have their older siblings or other family members find and hurt the kid or the kids family members. They also mostly lived in chaotic environments and so that is what they knew and recreated at school. They were also more comfortable with anger than kindness and tended to try to provoke anger to again create a reaction they were more comfortable with.

This might be different than a behaviour issue in a kid from a good home and neighborhood but it was clear that children act on what they learn in their daily lives. Had one of these students transferred to a school in a good neighborhood, they likely would have been just like the kid you described. But in their home school and neighborhood, they were just like all the rest.

Thank you for posting context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don't have anything close to what the OP describes at our kids' schools, but sure, there are always 2-to 3 disruptive students who take up 90% of the teacher's time. In the old days, they'd be sent to the office or suspended until they could behave. Today everyone suffers because of them and it reduces the quality of education for everyone else.

They still send kids to the office at DC's school and they will suspend for egregious behaviors. What school are you at that they don't do this?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As the parent of such a kid who doesn't minimize violence - the criminality is beside the point. There are no places for these kids to go. It's prison or mainstream. There's private placement if you're very savvy. Most people can't.

I think it's partly optics and partly cost and partly lack of will.

You can’t terrorize the normies. It has to be controlled.

These problems start young an the system tries to gaslight the parents and minimize them. For example, at one point my son didn't get an aide because that would be too restrictive. He was 5 at the time. (He has one now. But first we had to document evidence that he couldn't manage without one.)

It's not reasonable to expect parents to write off a 5 year old because the system doesn't work. The kids get pushed through the system.

That's because it's not legal to start with the most restrictive environment based on the parent's say so. Documenting evidence of the need is part of the process. That's how he ended up with an aide/para.

OK. So how do you suggest I, a parent, should have handled his behavior pre-para?

Hire one yourself. The issue is you want everything free.

I'm not the parent you are responding to but your suggestion is ridiculous. Public schools don't allow parents to hire people to attend school with their children. There is a process by which children are identified as needing services and the school does it's best to provide them. It doesn't often happen on the parent's timetable or the even the teacher's or the parents of the other kids, however it's a process that must be followed. Ideally the school will do their best to manage the child's behavior while they are in the process. Anyone expecting all this to go perfectly is delusional. If you think you can fix this imperfect system go right ahead and run for the school board. In the meantime I believe that everyone involved is doing their best despite what you may think. And BTW the parents of children with special needs typically want the same free public education you want for your children who were lucky enough to not be afflicted with special needs.

Op here. I agree with what you say. But some kids just don't belong in a mainstream school, and how long should the NT kids be affected by actions of one child while the parents are waiting for a better placement? There has to be a better system in place. Upthread a poster mentioned that Florida allows private placement if parents want and state doesn't fight them on it (something about a voucher?) MCPS BOE and MSDE should take note.

No, Florida doesn't automatically agree to pay for private placement. They have a voucher program that would cover a small fraction of what a high-support special education program costs. And even if it covered everything, there is a shortage of seats in programs.

It does go a long way, though, in allowing parents to explore other options.

No, it doesn't. The vouchers are only useful to families of students with low support needs who do not need to go into special education programs.

I beg to differ as a parent. Literally anything would be better than being forced to fail our kids through a system

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know all of this information, OP?

+1
It rings partly true but there also seems to be a bit of exaggeration by OP and taking gossip and presenting it as fact. There is no way she knows all this.

If you are from the same school, and your kid was in the same class, you would know it too. From what my kid says, it was a big drama at recess followed by the scissors event and one kid running to another 5th grade class to spread the news right after it happened, and then the kids talking about it at dismissal. These are 5th graders. They know what they are seeing. My kid has friends across the three classes. My kid was talking so fast about this when they saw me. It was a big event at school.

There are several parents from my kid's school on DCUM. I'm sure they all know this too unless they are living under a rock.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why are these violent kids allowed in school? Make them return to virtual school like we had in the pandemic. Why are we risking the lives of everyone else?

Pp here —- Virtual is not a panacea. It’s worse for many SN kids so not appropriate.

All children in this country are entitled to a free and appropriate public education. It’s the law.

It’s not the kid’s fault if they have a disability….(yes emotional disabilities are still protected.) The problem it’s the lack of options and process for appropriate placement that is the issue.

OP this is why these violent kids are mainstreamed. It the parents.

This one shows zero empathy for the education of dozens of students that her kid is ruining. Not to mention the daily terror and learning to hate school she and her child are creating.

I’m not sure where you got the idea this parent said kids with severe emotional disabilities need to be mainstreamed. What they are suggesting is that you could show empathy for ALL kids and not assume kids with emotional disabilities are somehow evil. Personally, I’ve spent thousands of dollars and countless time trying to get my kid a better placement with very little success. Stop blaming the parents- you truly have no idea.

Dp. I don't think ANY parent wants these kids inappropriately mainstreamed. I'm in these circles and everyone wants their kid to be supported or in a place that can manage their behaviors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know all of this information, OP?

+1
It rings partly true but there also seems to be a bit of exaggeration by OP and taking gossip and presenting it as fact. There is no way she knows all this.

There's a faction that wants to portray public schools as failing and unsafe so go out their way to play up these issues. This doesn't mean there isn't some truth to what they're saying it's more that they exaggerate and take these things out of context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in a school once that had mostly kids from a very violent neighborhood. These kids lived with violence on a daily basis in their homes and community. They weren't classed as SEN as the school was in their neighborhood and most of the students came from similar backgrounds.

It was very eye opening to me. These kids used violence and threatened violence just in how they expressed themselves and in how they dealt with any frustration. Having never really been in that kind of neighborhood until I taught at that school, I had never been exposed to this. They were all pretty traumatized and used threats of violence or acts of aggression to keep themselves safe. In one grade 3 class a little girl did stab another student with scissors for some minor thing he did. They were also always threatening to have their older siblings or other family members find and hurt the kid or the kids family members. They also mostly lived in chaotic environments and so that is what they knew and recreated at school. They were also more comfortable with anger than kindness and tended to try to provoke anger to again create a reaction they were more comfortable with.

This might be different than a behaviour issue in a kid from a good home and neighborhood but it was clear that children act on what they learn in their daily lives. Had one of these students transferred to a school in a good neighborhood, they likely would have been just like the kid you described. But in their home school and neighborhood, they were just like all the rest.

Thank you for posting context.

Pp dp however I am supposed to be describing myself

This is a very different issue. I acknowledge that I am in a privileged position, but most kids I know are genuinely disabled and it's not a matter of culture. Even so, it sounds like everyone would benefit for a more tailored approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know all of this information, OP?

+1
It rings partly true but there also seems to be a bit of exaggeration by OP and taking gossip and presenting it as fact. There is no way she knows all this.

There's a faction that wants to portray public schools as failing and unsafe so go out their way to play up these issues. This doesn't mean there isn't some truth to what they're saying it's more that they exaggerate and take these things out of context.

OP here. I am also aware of this. There are people on here and on nextdoor who play up issues for whatever agenda they have. Which is why I don't to mention which school when people keep asking. I don't want our school on Moco news for whatever agenda it is that people have.

My kid likes the school. These issues started only this year and I was venting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know all of this information, OP?

+1
It rings partly true but there also seems to be a bit of exaggeration by OP and taking gossip and presenting it as fact. There is no way she knows all this.

There's a faction that wants to portray public schools as failing and unsafe so go out their way to play up these issues. This doesn't mean there isn't some truth to what they're saying it's more that they exaggerate and take these things out of context.

OP here. I am also aware of this. There are people on here and on nextdoor who play up issues for whatever agenda they have. Which is why I don't to mention which school when people keep asking. I don't want our school on Moco news for whatever agenda it is that people have.

My kid likes the school. These issues started only this year and I was venting.

Why do you like the school? This sounds unacceptable to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are these violent kids allowed in school? Make them return to virtual school like we had in the pandemic. Why are we risking the lives of everyone else?

Pp here —- Virtual is not a panacea. It’s worse for many SN kids so not appropriate.

All children in this country are entitled to a free and appropriate public education. It’s the law.

It’s not the kid’s fault if they have a disability….(yes emotional disabilities are still protected.) The problem it’s the lack of options and process for appropriate placement that is the issue.

OP this is why these violent kids are mainstreamed. It the parents.

This one shows zero empathy for the education of dozens of students that her kid is ruining. Not to mention the daily terror and learning to hate school she and her child are creating.

You seem to misunderstand how things work. Every parent of kids with EDs we know want their kids in a supportive placement - NOT mainstream placement so they can better learn how to regulate themselves. It's the school districts that object and don't want to do the documentation or spend the money to get them that help. There's a shortage of qualified special ed teachers, school psychologists and social workers and they've never fully funded the law that set this situation up in the first place.

The best thing you can do is support these families so their children can get the help they need.

Again proving my point. No one in here do you show any empathy for the children you kid is ruining. In fact you even finish your post with me! me! me! me! Why do we have to support you when you have zero effs to give to children you are hurting?

I thank dog my kid is normal, but if he was threatening and hurting other kids and teachers, I would have the self awareness and empathy of others to remove him from that environment. Consequences be damned.

And we all know there are no consequences happening in MCPS for any reason.

I'm glad you "thank dog" your kid is "normal." WTF.

I don't have a kid with special needs much less in an SES program, but my child has benefited a lot from having kids with special needs in her classroom and having kids with special needs as friends so yes I do believe in inclusion. The parents who have objected to it have kids with undiagnosed special needs themselves. The one mom I remember complaining to everyone about the SES kids had a child who was struggling to learn how to read and crying and blamed it on the SES kids who were not disruptive. Two years later her child was diagnosed with dyslexia and generalized anxiety. She was just angry about her child being behind and wanted someone to blame.

Wild guess but there's something probably not really "normal" about your child and you are looking for excuses.

+100.

[Anonymous]

Any time you see the County departments or MCPS offering its "free" services/tech/other stuff to county residents, keep in mind that those leaders CHOSE to prioritize the providing of "free" goods, instead of properly funding school programs to appropriately educate students with disabilities and/or other emotional issues.

Look at the County's budget proposals for new ways to spend your tax dollars. Stop directly your vitriol at those parent of children who need--funded--appropriate educational programs.

[Anonymous]

OP with an update - I didn't check the Parentvue Parent newsletter until now thinking it's the usual stuff. They sent one out Saturday, the morning after this incident. There is a sub heading regarding SESES (Social and Emotional Special Education Services) and it is clearly mentioned that our school provides services to students in SESES and they mention a date when we can attend (by registering) to understand about the program, and ask our questions.

I guess this answers why other schools don't see this many behavior issues. Our school is providing services for SESES (my understanding from the email is this program is not based by school boundary). Who knows how we got designated for that.

I'm glad school is willing to meet with parents. I feel like someone from my kid's school is monitoring this forum. If there is any staff from my school here, thank you!